Would you be completely honest with a potential buyer of your home?

[SASM]

I am just curious. We bought our home last summer and there are some neighborhood issues creeping out as the weather improves that floor me! We actually asked one of our soon-to-be neighbors while we were checking out the house during a visit and she didn't mention anything, which surprised me given the ages of our kids (she saw all three of them while DH asked questions).

We asked our neighbor directly accross the street if there were any kids our kids ages in the neighborhood. She said yes...down the road. They are a VERY non-social familya nd our kids NEVER see their kids, despite our inviting them over for a playdate on numerous occassions and another invite for pizza, when their power was out and ours wasn't.

My MAIN issue is the large number of teenage boys (ages 10-16ish) that hang out in front of our house from morning to night on weekends or as soon as school lets out. One of the boys lives adjacent to our house and he is obviously the central hub. They actually have sat in teh middle of the street on several occasions!! How we didn't see this on one of 4 visits FLOORS me b/c they are always out there!

We also have a bunch of 10yo's riding 4wheel ATVs up and down the street and hanging out in front of our house...who are they and where are their parents?????

ANyway...the family who was selling the house relocated out of state so we never saw them. They had a 5yo boy. I am just surprised that noone mentioned these obvious issues that we somehow didn't see. I realize that "buyers beware" and they are obviously trying to seel their property but, if it were me, I do not know if I could NOT say something about this to someone buying my house with young children. I'd be honest about physical issues with the house, why not this??

I am probably just a naive newbie but this is a HUGE issue. What is even more flooring is that 2 of my neighbors are police officers!!! UGH!!!!!!!

[bubbaray]

I would only disclose what I am required to by law, which means I would disclose nothing about the neighborhood.

[KrisM]

I wouldn't have disclosed it either. But, if I had been the neighbor you asked, I would have said. And, if I were the seller and the potential buyer asked me if there were neighbor issues, etc, I'd be truthful. I just wouldn't offer it up myself. I'd figure the buyer is looking at specific areas/neighborhoods and knows what it's like. Obviously, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd think.

[wellyes]

I wouldn't have said anything, and honestly I don't think they were obligated to... annoying neighborhood kids isn't something that sellers are ethically obligated to report, IMO. From what you wrote I'm guessing the kids aren't dangerous or threatening - just loudish and irritating. It stinks but it's something that could happen in any densely populated neighborhood and is not a flaw specific to the house.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

The law in AZ doesn't require it. I was a Realtor, and we by law were NOT allowed to reveal SEX OFFENDERS!!! I used to tell my clients in one area, that I would drive them to the police station, and had a script regarding their right to know due to Megans Law. Since I only said it in one area, people got it.

Sellers have to be careful, that could be construed as libelous. Sorry you have to deal with it!!!

[infomama]

I would only disclose what I am required to by law, which means I would disclose nothing about the neighborhood.:yeahthat:

[specialp]

QUOTE=bubbaray;2346003]I would only disclose what I am required to by law, which means I would disclose nothing about the neighborhood.[/QUOTE]

:yeahthat:[

[MistieandMichael]

If I were selling you the house, I would tell you improtant house and property stuff...probably more than I should selling a house...but I have a big honest mouth...so yeah.... As for neighborhood things, I'm not sure if I would or not. If I were the neighbor your DH asked...I would be completely honest about the brats across the street. Last summer we had a couple kids throwing rocks at houses on the last day of school...one of the rocks hit my picture window...I walked that kid home to their parents and let them know exactly what they did. Their mom was super nice...I really just wanted to scare the crap out of the kid. :)

In summary....Not if I were the home owner...but definately if I were the neighbor.

[MommyofAmaya]

I feel your pain. I have silently cursed the sellers of our home on many nights after 2am when the young adults next door get home from clubbing and blast their car stereo which literally shake every window in our house (we live in a "transitioning" neighborhood). They have toned it down alot since we went and talked to them about it, but it still happens on occasion. We did some late night drive-bys of the house before we bought it, but never at 2am.

I have often wondered if it wasn't one of the reasons they decided to sell. But would I tell potential buyers? I doubt it.

[ha98ed14]

Your concerns are valid. You want your neighborhood to be a friendly, comfortable place for your family. But the issue at hand is not about the house per se; it's about the neighborhood. The seller is required to disclose known issues with the house. Not the neighborhood. If you had teenage boys, then your DSs hanging out in front of your house where you can see them might be a good thing. If you purchase another home in the future, maybe find a realtor who knows the neighborhoods age demographics as well as their socio-economic status. In the meantime, how about getting a dog and an invisible fence? Or maybe a not so invisible fence. Could you maybe park on the street in front of your house so they cannot be right on your property line? Just some ideas. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be.

[crazydiamond]

Unless it was very bad I would not say anything. Neighbors come and go. Social vibes change around a home over the years - so it is hard to report anything permanent to a buyer.

In the 8 years I have lived in my home I have seen numerous changes. When I moved in to my home it was mostly retirees who lived around me. They had raised their kids in the 60's and 70's and were empty nesters. I had no kids either at that time when I moved in. Also at that time one of my neighbors with kids actually moved to a different part of town because he said there were no other families on our block. Now there are lots of kids. We have also seen some irritating neighbors come and go.

I recently had a discussion with a long time resident about some cultural shifts with some of these new family neighbors - on them being “front yard families”. Our area had a culture of large fenced in backyards for kids and family activities – the grill, playsets, pools, patios and decks were kept in the backyard. It appears now that that with some of the new families – the plastic pools, toys, folding chairs, and and other things are now put out in the front lawns and driveways.

Things are always changing.

[MamaKath]

I am probably just a naive newbie but this is a HUGE issue. What is even more flooring is that 2 of my neighbors are police officers!!! UGH!!!!!!!
Assuming that just because a police officer lives in the neighborhood and is doing nothing is insulting to those officers. First off, they may or may not have jurisdiction in your neighborhood/town. Second, the teens (offenders) have to be caught doing something unlawful either by (on-duty) police or filmed. Third, as off duty officers they have to follow the SAME means you do!

I live with a thug neighbor who has targetted my family with his annoyance and threats since we moved to the street. My dh is in LE in another area and it is part of why we have been targetted. Thug knows all this and has used it to his advantage! It has meant that my children and I are in danger when dh is not home. I am sorry if I come across harshly, but the police officers living there and not intervening offduty should not floor you, nor should other thugs affecting all of your lives be held against them.

I can some suggest writing letters to your town/county council/commisioners. Include in it all your documentation (times, numbers of people, names of the kids, your calls to police to come intervene/stop the loitering, what has happened since, etc) and cc it to the police chief or sherriff in your area. If you are not actively intervening as a citizen, you can not be upset with someone else not doing the same. For all you know it may not bother them.

Just another point of view...

ETA-Answering your original question... If you are selling your house, you only disclose issues with your house. It is up to the buyer to check out the neighborhood on their own (search newspaper, check registries for offenders, drive by at various times, talk to people living there) in a way that they feel comfortable with. What bothers one person may not bother another, and problems with kids change (kids grow up, families move, etc). Disclosure only applies to the house.

[egoldber]

I would only disclose what I am required to by law, which means I would disclose nothing about the neighborhood.

:yeahthat:

And while I can see why those things bother you, I can also honestly see why it would not necessarily occur to someone who did not have young children that these are issues, KWIM? From what you describe, I would find it annoying, but not a safety issue or a legal issue. Unless I am missing something? Older kids hanging out unsupervised is just the norm I think. It would never occur to me that the parents of kids aged 10-16 would need to supervise them outside. Although most kids that age in my neighborhood are usually busy with after school activities and job and then homework. But there are several boys aged 8-12 who play football in the small grassy area adjacent to our lot every afternoon.

[Laurel]

I actually like that teenage/pre-teen boys regularly hang out and play basketball in my street, because it makes drivers slow down! I agree, they are a big, loud presence and that was originally intimidating. Now they all know me and my DC's, and are part of why I love the community in my neighborhood. I actually feel safer in a neighborhood where people are outside than one where everyone stays in their homes, KWIM?

Have you thought about "making friends" with the boys (and parents) and then addressing the behavior issues that bug you? They may look loud and scary, etc, but they are really just kids. You might be surprised.

ETA, my next door neighbor is a police officer in this city and I don't think it would ever occur to him to address kids playing in front of their own homes! When he is at home I assume he wants to be treated as any other neighbor, not as Officer X.

[kijip]

I agree with pp that neighborhood issues are fluid and change. I would agree that sellers are only obligated to disclose the legally mandated things.

Also, we bought in an "improving area" and it has improved. Still, it is not the nicest street in the area and we knew that going in from researching and driving by and looking a lot. We helped start a neighborhood watch and we diligently reported any illegal and suspicious activity we observed (a lot that first summer) and things are nicer here than they were. Though kids hanging out is not one of the things I was worried about. I like to see kids, even older ones playing (we live across from a park). What the issue here was were drug and other dealings near the park at night. Again, we knew what we were getting into when we bought here and there is a lot to like about the area...the park, walking to the library and stores, close to everything we need, only 15 minutes from downtown etc. And by buying here we got a lower price, a bigger yard and a nicer interior. Some of the redevelopment is certainly on hold due to the economy so that is annoying but we plan to be here for a long time so I think we will continue to see improvements.

If you think cops need to be involved or witness illegal activity, you need to call the police. But like pp have said, the police are not warranted IMO for kids hanging out. It sounds like you tried to make friends with the people with kids your child's age. Try and make friends with the families with older kids as well - knowing those kids could help you a lot.

[s7714]

What bothers one person may not bother another. I personally wouldn't tell a potential buyer about anything you've mentioned because it's not a year-round, permanent problem. Those kids will eventually grow up and/or move away.

When my neighborhood teenagers annoy me I try to remember that someday my DDs will be that age too. I'm certainly hoping they never stand out in the street practicing their cheerleader routines over and over again with music blasting while some neighbor's kids are trying to nap (BTDT), but you never know! ;)

[dogmom]

It would never occur to me to mention the stuff you had in your post. I mean, they aren't issues for everyone. Someone might think, great there are teenagers for our teenagers to hand out with! It's not like they are dealing drugs to a parade of cars going up and down your street. (I'm assuming you would have mentioned that, lol.)

I got crazy neighbors, but someone else might not think they are crazy. Besides, neighborhoods are fluid. The great group of families you may move in for may turn out to be psycho, or move, or divorce, or whatever.

[alexsmommy]

There were some issues with our previous house... from our neighbors perspective, they were desperate to make things better, so they weren't about to do anything to rock the boat with what they saw as a "nice, family oriented couple" looking to move on the block. Luckily, we never had any problems and I guess the two families causing the most problems were the ones who owned our home before us (lost the home in foreclosure and had trashed it so we never saw them and had no idea how bad of condition things were in b/c the lawyer who bailed them out cleaned up the backyard (which was a literal dump I guess) and fixed interiors worst problems) and another family who moved out that winter and we never dealt with. So after that, I can see where a neighbor is not very motivated to say something that would keep the type of familes they are hoping will move from buying a house.

[egoldber]

The great group of families you may move in for may turn out to be psycho, or move, or divorce, or whatever.

Yes, this happened to us. There was a great group of families and kids, but then over the course of a year, they all moved away. A couple families are left, but they both have two full time WOHM parents, so their schedules are totally different from ours plus our kids have turned out to not necessarily be such a good fit for each other. :(

[Snow mom]

As a home owner I wouldn't disclose anything not required by law. As a neighbor I also would not be inclined to discourage a nice looking family from moving in. Having nice neighbors improves the area and my quality of life. We live in a transitional area and as more nice young people move in, it gets to be a nicer place to raise a family. Perhaps it is selfish, but I'd rather not say anything about the issues I'm aware of and see the neighborhood continue to improve.

[smilla653]

That is really annoying.

The previous owners may not have noticed it, or may not have cared. No, I don't think they are required by law to report something like that.
Asking about noise, including whether for example any neighbors are professional musicians is something I always do (we live in an apartment). I don't know if they're legally required to answer, but you can certainly tell a lot from the answer.

I feel for you. We dodged a bullet -- we almost put an offer in on a house that turned out to be around the corner from a psychiatric halfway house the size of a large hotel. I live in the city, so I am used to all types of noise, activity, homeless people, mentally ill people wandering around etc. But asking my Mom's network in this neighborhood, I found out many families have moved away from this area because the residents take over the one neighborhood park, smoking, exposing themselves (!), etc. I feel so politically incorrect for saying that, but with a three year old, and reading web posts about this care facility where people have been chased down the street by schizophrenics. Yikes.
Teens and ATVs don't sound so bad LOL.

The owners of this place we were potentially buying didn't say anything about it (we ran into them at the end of the open house, and they asked us questions about our family, answered questions about the neighborhood). I did find it a little uncomfortable.... they saw us with our little kid and would have felt OK about selling us a place where safety was possibly a concern??? Thank God we drove by at night, which is when we noticed a lot of people wandering around.

Does the neighborhood have a neighborhood association/deed restrictions? My parents' neighborhood is by no means fancy but they have brought these kinds of nuisance problems to the home owners association meetings with great results. Many towns/counties have noise ordinances that the ATVs/hanging out right by your house might be violating.

Anyway, in short, I wouldn't necessarily volunteer information, but I do think you have to answer truthfully if asked (even outside the scope of disclosure)

[khm]

I'm sorry you are feeling unhappy with the current neighborhood situation. But, as a realtor, I don't see any issue with lack of honesty or disclosure.

They may have viewed the kids as "great friends who are always together". Obviously, these kids all have adults in their lives, the family you talked to may have assumed you'd be "like" those adults.

The quiet family up the street... how was any neighbor to know you wouldn't be the family they'd hit it off with?

It is a slippery slope for the type of informal disclosure you wish you'd had. Because, the disclosing party must make assumptions. They'd have to assume you would NOT like the kids in the neighborhood. They'd have to assume that the quiet family would re-buff your invitations.

As a realtor, I can't assume that a retired couple doesn't WANT to live in a neighborhood with a ton of loud, young kids. I can't assume a Hispanic family wants to live in a Hispanic neighborhood. I can't assume the family with a newborn doesn't want the quiet street with only retirees nearby. I can only show them what they ask to see and let them ask questions. I highly, highly recommend visiting area in the AM, right after school, and right after work. Get a vibe for who is outside and when. I recommend driving the commute to ones work at the appropriate time, to make sure there are no surprises. Obviously, not everyone has this kind of time when making a decision, nor is it always the right season to do so, but it is a good idea and well worth it if you can. We LOVED when we drove to our future neighborhood and saw all the kids and parents outside.

In our previous house, we didn't really notice the kid-situation because we weren't "there" yet. When we had our first, the next youngest kid nearby was a good 10 years older. A mere two years later, the demographic was changing as families moved on and new families with younger kids moved in. By the time we left, there was a TON of similarly aged kids there. We were sad to leave!!

[Melaine]

I agree with others that the previous owner was not obligated to share these facts with you. Another thing is that their young child might have been in daycare while the parents worked and they honestly may have never encountered the issues you are dealing with.
It's frustrating, but I certainly wouldn't blame the previous owners.