CANCELLED - wish me luck - CIO'ing tonight

[hellokitty1]

we are starting CIO tonight. Awhile back I posted about being anxious about sleeping habits and posters told me to do what worked til it stopped working for someone. Well, it has stopped working for me. DS has been nursed to sleep and I can't do it anymore. He started out in bassinet in our room and has now ended up in our bed mostly. And for naps, he has has to be nursed or have the paci and be held the entire tme. this means i cant get anything done.

i suspect some folks may think cio at almost 8 weeks is too young but i'm doing it anyway. if they are smart enough to learn a bad habit, they are smart enough to learn a good one.

i'm nervous but will remember there is light at the end of the tunnel if i do this right.

[wellyes]

I am all for CIO, it worked really really well for our family. But I have to say, 8 weeks is WAAAAY too young. There is a point in the baby's brain development where they can distinguish between what they need and what they want, and an 8 week old does NOT have that cognitive ability. I don't think CIO will be effective, just tramatic for the baby and for you. The CIO technique was developed by Dr. Richard Ferber, and I strongly encourage you to read his book before proceeding.

I know you must be SO, SO tired. One thing that worked for us when DD was that age was putting her to sleep in the Fisher Price papasan swing. She slept throught the night so long as there was constant motion and was swaddled. Maybe that would help?

Good luck, I have BTDT and it's hard!

[hellokitty1]

we are starting CIO tonight. Awhile back I posted about being anxious about sleeping habits and posters told me to do what worked til it stopped working for someone. Well, it has stopped working for me. DS has been nursed to sleep and I can't do it anymore. He started out in bassinet in our room and has now ended up in our bed mostly. And for naps, he has has to be nursed or have the paci and be held the entire tme. this means i cant get anything done.

i suspect some folks may think cio at almost 8 weeks is too young but i'm doing it anyway. if they are smart enough to learn a bad habit, they are smart enough to learn a good one.

i'm nervous but will remember there is light at the end of the tunnel if i do this right.

i have read ferber and am going to follow that technique. ds lasts about 5 min in a swing. i'm holding ds now to sleep with a paci. i won't be able to do anything now for the next two hours, i guess. even if i manage to get him to the crib, he will wake up everytime the paci falls out.

so who else is adamant that this is too young? between now and 8pm, i could use a little more anxiety about this whole thing.

[shawnandangel]

I am all for CIO, it worked really really well for our family. But I have to say, 8 weeks is WAAAAY too young. There is a point in the baby's brain development where they can distinguish between what they need and what they want, and an 8 week old does NOT have that cognitive ability. I don't think CIO will be effective, just tramatic for the baby and for you. The CIO technique was developed by Dr. Richard Ferber, and I strongly encourage you to read his book before proceeding.

I know you must be SO, SO tired. One thing that worked for us when DD was that age was putting her to sleep in the Fisher Price papasan swing. She slept throught the night so long as there was constant motion and was swaddled. Maybe that would help?

Good luck, I have BTDT and it's hard!

:yeahthat:
The swing worked really really well for us. DD has the newborn swing from fisherprice and it has the heartbeat sound you can turn on. We still turn it on when she gets fussy at 6months and it comforts her.

edit - I posted during your post. I am sorry you feel Welleyes was giving you anxiety about CIO but that does not change the fact that I agree with her post. I think from your post you may need to go to your OB and talk to her/him. Is it possible you have PPD?

hugs to you. I know how difficult it can be with a newborn. I was in your shoes 4 months ago.

[JBaxter]

Your joking right? 8 weeks?

[hellokitty1]

Your joking right? 8 weeks?


ok, clearly i'm off my rocker and should be waiting until????

12 weeks????

[JBaxter]

Ive never heard of it being done on an infant so young. I have heard of people trying 5-6 months.

[DrSally]

I agree that it's too young. Could you do something less drastic? Even Ferber says at least 5-6 months. FWIW, DS didn't sleep through the night until 10 months and DD is 9 months and still waking up 4 times a night to nurse. I'm just not comfortable letting them go unanswered until I'm really sure they don't have any nutritional needs and it's just "habit".

What about cluster feeding before bedtime, working on putting him down drowsy first, swaddling (we did this up to 5 months). I think swaddling with a MSB could help A LOT.

[lkarp]

We did Ferber with our girls when they were at least 6 months. Have you tried wearing him in a sling during the day? The girls would nap in the sling while I got stuff done during the day. They exclusively napped in a sling for a couple of months -- it seemed to work pretty well for me.

[vonfirmath]

Ive never heard of it being done on an infant so young. I have heard of people trying 5-6 months.

We started sleep training way before 5-6 months. I don't remember the exact age but I don't think 8 weeks is excessively early.

[Ceepa]

Are you swaddling? I know people have had success with Happiest Baby on the Block. I think it also comes on a DVD.

[missym]

I understand you are sleep deprived, but letting your baby CIO at such a young age is a pretty drastic measure. Ferber strongly objects to his philosophy being misconstrued as CIO anyway. I agree with the PP about trying other things first, such as wearing him in a sling while you're getting things done around the house, a good tight swaddle, cluster feeding before bedtime, a swing, or even letting him nurse to sleep and then having someone else move him to a bassinet or crib so you're not as likely to wake him.

ETA: My concern might just be because of the terms you used. If you mean letting him fuss for a short time to see if he can settle on his own, that's different in my mind than true CIO.

[jmeyer23]

Hi,
First, I am giving you a virtual hug as I remember that feeling of being so tired. Whatever you decide, here's one thing that worked for me/us. Around the same time (8 weeks), we visited my mom and I was exhausted as DS was not sleeping well, and I was nursing a lot. She's a NICU nurse, and she did this: filled a men's tube sock with long grained rice, tied the top, and put it in the microwave for about one minute (more or less depending on the power of your microwave). She made sure it wasn't too hot, then laid it on DS's sheet in the crib for about 5 minutes. Again, she hand tested the area to make sure it was warm but not hot, laid him down on that spot, and then put the warm sock against his body. He slept GREAT! After that night, we did the "sock trick" every night/every nap. Granted, he'd still wake to nurse in the night but it gave us a few hours at a time and then was heavenly for naps during the day. :applause: It got to be funny at night when DH and I would "get the sock ready!"

I just told a co-worker about this trick for his 10 week old granddaughter, and they had great success too. Hope it helps you! Good luck, and please know that you WILL sleep again!

[hellokitty1]

just to clarify...the issue with ds is not multiple night wakings. he is up to four hours between feedings which i think is great and we're fotunate. my concern is that he has to be nursed to sleep, which means laying on a bed, instead of a crib. this is starting to get unsafe for us. we can also sometimes hold him, with a paci, but then we can't put him down or the paci falls out and he wakes up. so then he is better off if we hold him so he sleeps better.

[JMS]

Well, I'm about 4 weeks behind exactly where you are (DS2 will be 1 month old on Fri) so I think I can relate to how you are feeling. DS2 is an easy baby as long as I'm holding him constantly. I co-slept to a degree with my other two but was able to rely on consistent naps (by themselves) at an early age. DS2 takes co-sleeping to a new level for me - not only do I have to be there with him, but he wants to be cuddled and touched - at night and during the day. It's hard and I'm bone tired but I really think he needs this soothing from me and I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that this will be my life for most likely many months to come. It's really hard to take care of other kids, the house and even myself. The other day I thought he was asleep and I went to the bathroom (sorry if TMI). Well, he started to cry and no one else was home. I had no choice - I was in the bathroom and he had to cry for about 90 seconds. It tug at my heartstrings. They need us and they cry to tell us.

I did do CIO with DD (I think she was about 13 months old) and she responded well. I now have two great sleepers and eventually I will have three, but at the present time, DS2 needs to be soothed to sleep by me - that's just how it is.

You're gotten some good suggestions: swing, swaddle, sling.. but I think help is critical to moms like us as well. DH, family, friends.. someone to help out around the house or hold your DC for you for a little while so you can rest or just get a breather.

Hang in there... :)

[DrSally]

What we did for the first few months after she was no longer content to sleep in the PNP in our room--DH would take her into the guest room and sleep with her in a semi upright position (reflux), and bring her to me for nursings and then he would change her and get her back to sleep. This was great when DH was home (not all the time), as I could get some sleep. We only had to do this for about 2 months and then she went back to the bassinet or her crib.

ETA: the paci is a blessing and a curse isn't it? DD NEVER took one, so she didn't have anything to help her get to sleep, but at the same time, I didn't have to run in there putting it back in. Do you think he could learn to suck on his fingers?

[todzwife]

Maybe try the sock trick or a warm heating pad to warm up the crib first (take it out of course). Some babies are very sensitive to change in temperature.

I TOTALLY agree with swaddling. Maybe if you nurse him to sleep swaddled, it will be easier to move him to the warmed crib.

White noise machines are invaluable. I swear, even the sound of the house settling would wake DD up.

You've had a lot of good ideas. I'd try some of them before resorting to CIO at that age.

[HannaAddict]

Your post hurts my heart for your little one. It isn't just a difference of opinion that CIO is inappropriate for an infant of a mere eight weeks. It is a medical opinion and the AAP has published on it. I hope your pediatrician is able to let you know why this is such a terrible idea. Babies are developmentally not ready for that at that tender age and no amount of torturing them and trying to make them "learn" to sleep will work, they are just not ready. Sure, they will eventually become exhausted and finally collapse, but they aren't learning anything except that they have been abandoned. There are stress hormones released by screaming, stressed out infants too. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but CIO at eight weeks is harsh too. As you know from your earlier child and this one, having an new baby is very, very, VERY hard. Sleep deprivation is torture for the parents too (that's why they use it in interrogations!) but it too shall pass. Your bond with your baby is something that is forever and I truly think that continuing to respond to your baby and comforting your new baby will ultimately lead to a better relationship and sleeping patterns.

And yes, sometimes at this age you are stuck not doing anything for a couple of hours while baby naps with your assistance. I was happy for wireless internet during that time and spent many a nap time with a happy baby on my lap and the laptop next to me. And I don't regret for a minute the lost time or lack of loading the dishwasher. It was harder with baby #2 but still possible to read stories or interact with my first child while I let baby #2 sleep while being comforted. I feel very lucky I was able to be home and have that time with baby. We also used the Papasan swing starting at around that time for naps, right in the main part of the house so I could keep an eye on baby. Night time sleeping in the glider with our little one on on chest/lap provided needed sleep for us at this stage. Nursing to sleep is totally normal at this age and appropriate, it works great for a reason :). They are helpless and depend on you for everything. Your comment about not caring if eight weeks is too young and thinking babies are "learning" good and bad "habits" makes me cringe and it really sounds like you are in this alone and not getting enough "mama" support. I truly hope you can enlist a relative or good friend to watch/rock/soothe baby so you can get some much needed rest and maybe get rid of a bit of your sleep deficit. I'm sorry you are feeling desperate enough to consider this and hope you can find another way. This too shall pass, really.

[gordo]

I believe Ferber himself says not to try his method until at least 4 months and preferably not until 6 months. However, I do think that you don't have to run in the second an 8 week old starts to fuss. If he is fussing, leave him. If he is crying, check on him.

I loved the Healthy Sleep Habits book and used it as my sleep bible for both children. Other things you can try (but your probably already have) the eat, play, sleep routine so that he doesn't associate nursing with falling asleep. Laying him down drowsy, but not asleep.

Good luck and I feel your frustration. I really think this age is the most difficult with sleep issues.

[tny915]

I feel for you. DD1 was a terrible sleeper and we held her for every single nap and coslept at night until around the 4 month mark when I just couldn't take it anymore. I don't know what I would've done if I had another child to care for at the same time. You must be so tired and frustrated. I second the suggestions for slings and swaddles--maybe your DS will take to them.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[niccig]

Good luck and I feel your frustration. I really think this age is the most difficult with sleep issues.

:yeahthat: I agree. 0-3 moths was so very difficult for us. DS also had reflux, so I had to sleep in the glider chair holding him upright. I second the recommendation for swaddle, sling, swing, Healthy Sleep Habits book, or the No Cry Sleep Solution book. I used a variety of techniques at different times depending on what worked. We did CIO at around 9 months when DS was only waking once a night to eat.

I would try babywearing during the day. I loved our Hotsling, but I'm sure there are others now. It took a couple of times for both DS and I to get used to it, but it really worked to help him sleep on me, while I was doing the dishes. I wouldn't worry about "bad" habits right now. At 2months your baby is still adjusting to being in the world and he needs his mamma.

Good luck.

[Moneypenny]

I do think 8 weeks is far too young for CIO and won't actually work, but I want to try to solve this problem with you. So, is the issue that once he has nursed to sleep he wakes up when you put him in his crib? Or, he's fine until the paci falls out (am I the only parent who dreamed in a sleep-deprived haze of creating a pacifier with little strings that would wrap around baby's ears to keep it on???)?

I will say that DD was held for every single nap until she was 5.5 months old. I just made sure I had a glass of water, a granola bar and the remote control nearby before she zonked out.

[arivecchi]

Although most people her think otherwise, my pediatrician says it is ok to do as long as the baby weighs 12 pounds. At that point, they don't need to eat every two-three hours at night (night being defined as 10pm-5am). They do it out of comfort and because that is what they know. I did modified CIO with my first son at 3.5 months and it worked after 3 nights. My pediatrician just did it with his son at 2.5 months and it worked after one night. If your pediatrician gives you the ok and you are comfortable with it, go ahead. It is your decision and different techniques work for different people. I understand you perfectly because I am going back to work full time tomorrow at a very demanding stressful job and my almost 12 week old son still wakes 4-5 times a night and I just cannot continue that. I think we will do modified CIO this weekend. Good luck whatever you decide.

[pastrygirl]

My son was like that -- needed to be nursed to sleep, woke up if he wasn't held, etc. But I was willing to do what it took to get him to sleep. In my case, it meant nursing him in a rocking chair for about an hour every night. Shushing, nursing, white noise. He didn't nurse the whole time -- I worked on being able to remove my nip from his mouth when he wasn't actively sucking (that took some work and dedication but eventually worked every time).

After the hour had passed, I put him into the crib very, very, very carefully. If I jostled him at all, he woke up and we had to start over. When putting him in the crib, I had to lean over him and press my body to his for several minutes. Killed my back, but kept him from waking up. Over time, I was able to decrease the amount of time it took. It was down to 45 minutes at around 5 months, then 30 minutes... eventually got down to only 15 minutes! When he was 13 months old, I was able to put him down awake. It really didn't take that long at all, in hindsight. No CIO involved at all. I think we did pretty well!

I didn't start doing this until he was about 3 months old. Before then, we co-slept because that was the best and easiest way for both of us to get sleep. I was never sleep-deprived while co-sleeping. I was more sleep-deprived once he moved to the crib.

[niccig]

So, is the issue that once he has nursed to sleep he wakes up when you put him in his crib? Or, he's fine until the paci falls out (am I the only parent who dreamed in a sleep-deprived haze of creating a pacifier with little strings that would wrap around baby's ears to keep it on???)?


Ohhh, please invent that pacifier, you'll make a fortune. For the waking up once in the crib, I like the hot sock idea. There's warmth and a presence there. I'll have to pass that idea on to a friend. What I did was put DS down in the PNP but I would stand over the PNP still partially holding DS and then slowly and carefully moved my body away. I also had to time the nap/sleep because of the 45 minute intruder. THeir sleep cycles are 45 mins, so I would rush back in there, patting DS's back just before the 45 mins would be up. But then I discovered the hotsling. DS would sleep in there if I couldn't get him to sleep anywhere. I still have this rocking side to side motion if I'm standing and holding a child..even DS and he's 4!

[hellokitty1]

So, is the issue that once he has nursed to sleep he wakes up when you put him in his crib? Or, he's fine until the paci falls out (am I the only parent who dreamed in a sleep-deprived haze of creating a pacifier with little strings that would wrap around baby's ears to keep it on???)?

I will say that DD was held for every single nap until she was 5.5 months old. I just made sure I had a glass of water, a granola bar and the remote control nearby before she zonked out.


yes, you have it summarized well. and i feel like it's being interpreted as selfish on my part. it's really not. maybe people just paint rosier pictures than it really is and my view is distorted. dc1 was very high maintenance but bc she was the only one, we were able to focus all of our attention to her. now i have a 5-yr old that i never get to tuck in to bed anymore or read night-night books to in bed (unless it's mine and the baby is attached to my boob.)

i am not sure what i am going to do. if i was more confident about my choice, i probably would not have posted here. but deep down, i still have reservations.

and lol, you are not the only one that dreamed of a paci with strings. i 've envisioned the elastic strings like on the doctor's face mask. how much harm could that do?

[maestramommy]

ok, clearly i'm off my rocker and should be waiting until????

12 weeks????

according to the latest research (I heard in early 06), the youngest you should start is 4 months. That's when the average baby is cognitively able to "get it." So it's not really a matter of you being "cruel" but whether you will get the result you're hoping for.

[hellokitty1]

ETA: the paci is a blessing and a curse isn't it? DD NEVER took one, so she didn't have anything to help her get to sleep, but at the same time, I didn't have to run in there putting it back in. Do you think he could learn to suck on his fingers?

yes, i know exacthly what you mean. dc1 never took a paci and couldn't self-soothe but in hindsight we were glad we didn't have to deal ith weaning. dc2 takes one now but i haven't decided if it is a friend or foe. he is trying to find his fingers and can once in a blue moon. but then if he is swaddled, that wont work.

[m448]

Vivian your view is distorted but it's normal when adjusting to a second child. Yes, your oldest will now share you with a sibling and those first few YEARS are a tremendous adjustment. But as your baby gets older and starts to interact with his sister you'll begin to see the payoff.

In the meantime the priorities right now are your the family MEMBERS (you, children, husband) but in a triage order. Whoever needs the most immediate helps gets it first and most times it means multitasking. Yup, that means putting one child to sleep while nursing the other. It means baby might fuss while you get a meal made. Slings help a ton (I've used mine for 3 children way more than the expensive stroller I bought for #1), housework only when absolutely necessary.

Yes, do what works BUT in the context of having a baby which means what works is DIFFERENT for each parent, each child and each family. It means you balance your absolute needs with your child's absolute needs and his inability to reason. It means that all routines, habits and your entire household groans right now as it adjusts to the new family member and it's completely normal.

The less you fight that, the more you'll enjoy your family.

eta: In the context of all that blahbity, blah, blah my advice is nurse him to sleep. Either he needs it (and may need it for quite a while, my first was like this) or he'll soon enough not need it at all to sleep (my second was like that). Either way, just go with the ebb and flow of his needs. With hindsight you already know that these tough stages come with a moment of calm in between. Enjoy those too.

[DrSally]

I get your clarification that it's not necessarily that you want him to sleep through the night wo/nursing, it's that he can't sleep without you (or sucking paci) and that's ALOT if time attached to you. In addition to the swaddling idea, what about putting an aquarium toy in his crib. If you turn this on everytime you put him down, he may assoc that with sleep, KIWM?

[AngelaS]

I started teaching mine to fall asleep on their own around 3 months. I started with the day time naps first. When they woke up in the morning, I would feed them, then get them dressed and whatnot--basically, keep them awake for a bit. Then when they started to act sleep, I wouldn't nurse them to sleep, but instead rock, pat, snuggle them to sleep and put them down. Each day, I laid them down a bit sooner so they learned to fall asleep on their own. This technique worked VERY well for us and there was very little crying. :)

[Piglet]

I am not sure what your post was asking for - luck isn't the thing you need! Either you are committed to doing something proactive to fix the problem or you are looking for a lucky break. I would want the solution not the four leaf clover. Many people have thrown great solutions your way. You have dismissed many of them and are still seemingly looking for the good wishes instead. I can not give you the well wishes so I will add my 2 cents on the solution.

My observation is that you never mention DH in your posts. Is he helping out in any way shape or form? Is he capable of putting DD1 to bed? Is he capable of feeding the baby a bottle of EBM? Our night time looked like this: 8 pm - DH and I put the older kid(s) to bed. 9 pm - I nursed baby and went to bed. 12 pm - DH gave baby a bottle of EBM and went to bed. 3 pm - I woke up and BFed baby (after 6 hours of sleep). 6 pm - DH brought baby to me in bed (if I was lucky enough to get back to bed) and went to work (after 6 hours of uniterrupted sleep). We each got a 6 hour stretch and were relatively refreshed. DH was a very equal partner in this routine. He played a lot of Wii with the baby on his lap between 9 and 12 and I surfed the net between 3 and 6 some nights. 6 hours of straight sleep is divine!

Other than that, try a swing, a swaddle, a sound machine, etc. Do the best you can do to get through this next little while and in a few months CIO with a clear conscience. You obviously wouldn't have posted a good luck thread if you were feeling totally commited to this idea and you woulnd't care so much about the negative remarks if you were 100% on board yourself. Try the suggestions first. You always have time to CIO.

[brittone2]

Taking the "needs to eat" vs. not situation into account, 8 week olds are often going through a big growth spurt and IMO *may* truly need to eat (maybe not all babies, but IMO many do need to eat even if they are over 12 lbs). And in coming months, there may be illness, teething, new milestones, etc. to contend with, all which can interfere w/ sleep (and from what I've heard, even the sleep training experts recommend parents take these into account and realize that CIO at these points may not be a good idea).

I'm not in favor of CIO for my family. However, even Ferber now says a minimum of 6 months for CIO (at least, that was what I remember hearing he was saying a year or two ago...he had revised his stance). I think the issue is that in many cases, CIO is likely to result in exhaustion, but not necessarily learning to self soothe. Some 8 week olds may be able to calm themselves, but I think they are likely fewer and farther between than 8 week olds who will not be able to self-soothe. I just think most 8 week olds are not neurologically set up to be able to self-soothe and calm down. That's why the instinct to suck to sleep is so strong. IMO, they need it to self-regulate their arousal state and to calm themselves down. I think doing CIO and having a kid that isn't yet neurologically capable of self soothing/calming and getting to slep independently isn't going to make anyone happy. You may end up having a baby cry to the point of exhaustion but not necessarily "learning" anything. I'm sure there are people that feel they had sucess with CIO w/ a child that young, but my guess is that that situation is not that common because I truly don't think most 8 week olds are capable of self-soothing to get to sleep or fall back to sleep on their own. Sleep training isn't going to change their neurological readiness IMO. (eta: and I don't think you should view needing to suck to fall asleep a "bad habit" at this age at all. It is 100% totally normal for an 8 week old IMO).

I personally couldn't have lived without a sling for either of my kids. DS hated swaddling but DD did well with swaddling and the Happiest Baby on the Block type of stuff. Both were sort of needy in terms of wanting to be held. Yes, it was a PITB, but I think that's life with an infant, especially w/ an older kid to care for. For me, it worked better to just realize that I could only do what I could do. THe more expectations I had of what was "normal" or what I "should" be able to get done in a day, the more I drove myself crazy, and I found I was getting into more of an adversarial mindset in dealing w/ my kids. Just my personal experience.

:hug:
I hope you don't feel attacked. I really hesitated to post. Everyone does what feels right for their family, and that really varies. I'm not pro-CIO for my own family, but I think 8 weeks is really early for full sleep training/CIO for any infant that age.

[maestramommy]

One more thing I wanted to mention. IIRC from my LC's handouts, 8 weeks is a peak for evening fussiness. It manifests itself differently for all babies. Dora would cry inconsolably for a couple of hours, stopping for a few minutes whenever Dh and I handed her off to each other. Arwyn didn't cry at all AS LONG AS someone was holding her, and I would nurse her periodically. It meant that I couldn't put Dora to bed unless Arwyn was attached to me. But at the time it wasn't a big deal because putting Dora to bed was Dh's job. I only had to do it couple of times when he wasn't home. With both girls I remember they didn't go to bed for the night until about 9-10. This kind of behavior is supposed to taper off at around 3 months, give or take. For those 3ish months we ate dinner with one of us holding her, and the other cutting up someone else's food :p

Dora took the paci, sort of, at 1 month, but gave it up at 4 months. Arwyn never took it, acted like I was poisoning her when I tried to pop it in her mouth. Luckily she found her thumb around 3 months.

ETA: just read Brittone's last post and I agree about the needing to eat thing. I never knew that when Dora was this age, heard about "cluster feeding" but no one explained what that was until she was 3 months old and I finally asked about it on this board. I thought she was just being very fussy. It never occured to me that she could be hungry 30 minutes after the last small feeding. With Arwyn I had the heads up and just kept nursing her. Made everyone's life much more pleasant.

Please don't feel bad about posting. It is so hard to know what is the right thing to do when you're feeling desperate and stretched way too thin :hug5:

[elektra]

Hugs to you. I am expecting baby #2, and I am picturing myself in this state of desperation in 8+ weeks too. I am personally planning on wearing baby #2 quite a bit, but I also plan on returning to work when he is about 3 months old and it's just not feasable to hold him all the time. I also think that giving a baby (even an 8-week old) a few minutes to settle for naps is ok and I did it with DD. I also can't see how I am going to be able to tend to DD, without leaving little DS to cry for a few minutes sometimes. That being said, I don't think that full-blown CIO is something I want to do that soon though either.
Good luck and hang in there!

[SnuggleBuggles]

What we did for the first few months after she was no longer content to sleep in the PNP in our room--DH would take her into the guest room and sleep with her in a semi upright position (reflux), and bring her to me for nursings and then he would change her and get her back to sleep. This was great when DH was home (not all the time), as I could get some sleep. We only had to do this for about 2 months and then she went back to the bassinet or her crib.



That's what we did too. We took shifts and it really worked well for us.

GL,
Beth

[urquie]

lol, you are not the only one that dreamed of a paci with strings. i 've envisioned the elastic strings like on the doctor's face mask. how much harm could that do?

i would have bought this (http://www.amazon.com/Wubbanub-Infant-Pacifier-Pink-Horse/dp/B000P25TZO/ref=pd_sim_dbs_hpc_3)for dd2 if she used the same pacifier. if your baby isn't rolling over, it should (ideally) be able to rest on their chest.

Wubbanub Infant Pacifier - Pink Horse

Other products by Wubbanub (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-alias=baby-products&field-brandtextbin=Wubbanub)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21JF4-qWHLL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[hellokitty1]

first, thanks for the replies (most of them, anyway) and suggestions. i'm not going to pursue this now. i've gotten too many dissenters and i'm an emotional wreck now.

for those that think i'm being selfish, i'm not. i just see my baby being fussy by late afternoon bc maybe i wasn't still enough during all of his makeshift naps and i truly feel bad for him bc he seems miserably tired. so i thought if i could get him to like sleep, he'd be happier.

but i'm going to tough it out longer and make some modifications.

first off, i have been and will continue to help him disassociate nursing with eating, at least during the day. i will follow the eat, play and sleep routine. this will mean holding him to sleep but at least a boob is not required for this.

then i will also spend more time in his room, around his crib during nap times. he's got a mobile and is just starting to track things and has noticed it's presence. perhaps i will turn it on while he is rocked to sleep and at least associate the music with naps. i have been able to pat him to sleep one other time in his crib so i'll try this again. like the other poster says, it's hard on yor back but so is holding your baby the entire time so what's the difference. :-)

i think we'll also try to get back in the habit of putting ds back in the bassinet after he falls asleep at night. i'll see if i can get my hands on a heating blanket. the other thing we've done is when i nurse ds to sleep at night, i put a hospital receiving blanket underneath him. then when we pick him up to move him, we pick up the entire blanket so the material touching him never changes. perhaps the recent cold spell made this trick a little unsuccessful and that is why we stopped trying to move him.

i'll try the sling again too. ds screamed the few times i tried it. maybe i just didn't do it right or by the time i tried it, ds was too tired. or maybe the sling i have sucks. i may need advice on this hotsling thing.

that's it for now. i'm going to revive myself and think about the luxury of being able to sit around all day and do nothing. lol. at least i'm losing lots of weight since i never get a chance to eat. :)

[brittone2]

Hugs to you. I am expecting baby #2, and I am picturing myself in this state of desperation in 8+ weeks too. I am personally planning on wearing baby #2 quite a bit, but I also plan on returning to work when he is about 3 months old and it's just not feasable to hold him all the time. I also think that giving a baby (even an 8-week old) a few minutes to settle for naps is ok and I did it with DD. I also can't see how I am going to be able to tend to DD, without leaving little DS to cry for a few minutes sometimes. That being said, I don't think that full-blown CIO is something I want to do that soon though either.
Good luck and hang in there!

Yep, I think the very nature of having 2 or more kids just means someone is going to be unhappy sometimes. DD certainly had no choice but to fuss a bit sometimes while I dealt with something important w/ DS (who is about 3 years older).
WIth DS, I could be there and respond to most of his whimpers. With DD, it wasn't always possible. However, I think that it is very different than deliberately trying to sleep train or CIO w/ an 8 week old, just as Elektra said.
:hug: again.

(eta: sorry hellokitty1, I cross posted w/ your post above. 6- 8 weeks was definitely a fussy time for DD. Sadly I can't even remember what it was like w/ DS. DD screamed every night in the evening from like 7-10 pm continuously. It was awful. We would take turns holding/walking around the room w/ her while we watched a movie. If she was going to scream, we figured at least we'd be entertained and she'd have the comfort we could give. Not fun. Are there any babywearing groups around? I'm sure the mamas here would love to help you with sling tips too. I totally could not live without my slings. It may take time for DC to get used to it, but really, it makes life much easier in the long run IMO. Especially once you have two kids...you can at least get *some* things done while they are in the sling.)

Oh, and you are totally not selfish. You are human. Sleep deprived mamas of two kids who feel stretched to their limits are not selfish for feeling frustrated.

[maestramommy]

i'll try the sling again too. ds screamed the few times i tried it. maybe i just didn't do it right or by the time i tried it, ds was too tired. or maybe the sling i have sucks. i may need advice on this hotsling thing.

that's it for now. i'm going to revive myself and think about the luxury of being able to sit around all day and do nothing. lol. at least i'm losing lots of weight since i never get a chance to eat. :)

Awwww:hug5:

Any chance you could lay your hands on a meitai? I used that a lot more in the beginning because I could get Arwyn to sit straight up. Maybe I didn't use it right, but the Hotsling didn't quite work for me. It seemed to make the baby kind of slumped, which might lead to a little acid reflux.

[brittone2]

Awwww:hug5:

Any chance you could lay your hands on a meitai? I used that a lot more in the beginning because I could get Arwyn to sit straight up. Maybe I didn't use it right, but the Hotsling didn't quite work for me. It seemed to make the baby kind of slumped, which might lead to a little acid reflux.

Loved the mei tei w/ little ones. Two shoulders makes it pretty comfy.

[egoldber]

i just see my baby being fussy by late afternoon

I just wanted to reassure you that this is really, really normal. That late afternoon/early evening fussiness was sooooooooo hard. And with an older child too and you feel tied down and helpless....yeah, wretched.

But it does pass. You are really in the worst of it all right now. And I so agree with those posters who emphasized that learning to be a family again with the new dynamics is just plain hard and will take time.

[tny915]

now i have a 5-yr old that i never get to tuck in to bed anymore or read night-night books to in bed (unless it's mine and the baby is attached to my boob.)

This was me in DD2's early months. I felt terrible guilt that I couldn't devote the time that I used to have for DD1's bedtime routine. I read many a book with DD2 on the boob at DD1's bedtime. Sung hurried good night songs to her in between shushing and bouncing DD1. My patience was thin and I was exhausted, just waiting for the day that DD2 would be old enough that I could do a little sleep training, so I could concentrate on putting just one child to bed at a time. Hang in there. Best of luck with the suggestions you've received, and sleepy vibes to your DS.

[hellokitty1]

[quote=Piglet;2347953]I am not sure what your post was asking for - luck isn't the thing you need! quote]

it was just a figure of speech.

[SnuggleBuggles]

now i have a 5-yr old that i never get to tuck in to bed anymore or read night-night books to in bed (unless it's mine and the baby is attached to my boob.)


I saw this part highlighted in someone else's reply and wanted to chime in too. I have that age spread too and I think it is tough because you are so used to not having any real obstacles to caring for dc#1. I remember nights like a pp described of stories being read with little sibling attached to the breast or rushing through to go tend to baby. But, ds2 is 16m old now and I can barely remember those nights. They pass in the blink of an eye! Hang in there because I know it seems like you will never find the balance and will never get sleep again but you will! it will happen before you know it.

Beth

[Fairy]

I'm a supporter of CIO and the Ferber method, myself. But I agree that 8 weeks is just too early, and I'm glad you've cancelled the plan for tonight. However, we started the sleeping thru the nite training at 10 or 12 weeks, and we didn't need CIO to do it. He went right for it. He did backtrack a bit, tho, and we eventually Ferber'd it, and it worked well for us. So, don't be afraid of it if you choose that path, but yes, 8 weeks, too early.

Fussy time is really normal. Not all babies go thru the fussytime phase, but mine did, right at 5pm or so, it would kick in, and we were in misery for three solid hours. A month or so later, he grew out of it. But I completely feel your pain there. Washing machine? Music? My friend used to take his little boy, sit with him on the couch, hold him during fussytime, and watch TV. Sometimes, there's jsut nothing you can do but let them fuss.

Come back in a couple months and let us know how the Ferber'ing goes.

[catpagmo]

hellokitty1, know that you are not alone. I am in the exact same situation right now, and it sucks sometimes. I'll tell you one thing that's helping me is the Moby wrap. I tried a Peanut Shell sling, and it didn't work for me. DS is almost 7 weeks, and I have a 3 year old DD. This is the only way I am able to get ANYTHING done. It has been very helpful. DS sleeps when he's in there, and I'm able to have some time with DD (by time with DD, I mean I'm able to put her down for her nap and make her lunch, etc...).

I also wonder if you are missing DC #1. I know I am. I miss being able to give her all of my attention, and feel guilty that I hardly have any time for her right now. I miss her terribly. :(

I think that this is a tough time for the entire family, but especially the mom. I am just trying to remember that soon, DS won't need me quite so much, and sometimes that makes dealing with everything a little better.


Hugs!

[clc053103]

Reading your post brought back memories for me- and not all good ones!!!

My DS also had the "witching hour" which was anywhere in the 4-7 area, usually most of it. At that time, DH also often worked that late! I found the best thing I could do was get outside and walk- it was good for my oversized butt, for one thing, but DS really enjoyed the motion of the stroller and studies show that fresh air tires out babies! Your older DD could ride a bike or something along with you too!

As for sleep training, I followed Baby Wise (I ignored any religious preachings I didn't agree with, and used common sense on the feeding parts that BF moms typically don't agree with) and it really worked like magic!!! I also did a "dream feed" (from the Baby Whisperer) which really helped DS make it longer through the night.

Best of luck to you, may your sleepless nights be coming to a close very shortly!

[arivecchi]

I'm a supporter of CIO and the Ferber method, myself. But I agree that 8 weeks is just too early, and I'm glad you've cancelled the plan for tonight. However, we started the sleeping thru the nite training at 10 or 12 weeks, and we didn't need CIO to do it. He went right for it. He did backtrack a bit, tho, and we eventually Ferber'd it, and it worked well for us. So, don't be afraid of it if you choose that path, but yes, 8 weeks, too early.

Fussy time is really normal. Not all babies go thru the fussytime phase, but mine did, right at 5pm or so, it would kick in, and we were in misery for three solid hours. A month or so later, he grew out of it. But I completely feel your pain there. Washing machine? Music? My friend used to take his little boy, sit with him on the couch, hold him during fussytime, and watch TV. Sometimes, there's jsut nothing you can do but let them fuss.

Come back in a couple months and let us know how the Ferber'ing goes. Fairy, what exactly did you do for sleep training w/out CIO. I'd love to try.

Also, to the OP, while my ped. gave me the green light as soon as the child is 12 pounds, I just called the practice and his nurse suggested waiting until 4 months for CIO as other posters have mentioned.

[Momof3Labs]

My DH works several nights a week, and I remember reading to DS1 in his bed while nursing DS2 at bedtime. I also remember carrying DS2 around in a KKAFP (he loved the tummy-to-tummy position; didn't like cradle hold) while playing games with DS1, making him lunch, having an indoor picnic, etc. Your family is changed, so your routines will change to work in the needs of your new family member.

I'm glad that you cancelled CIO. At 8w, he needs a way to soothe himself, and if you take away yourself, your breast and the paci, what is left? Very simply, his brain is too immature to be left alone to find a replacement. He still needs your help.

Give it another 6 or so weeks, and he'll be a completely different baby. Then it is worth putting the effort into helping him learn to sleep (though I wouldn't do CIO until at least 6 months personally, there are other more gentle ways to help him learn to sleep on his own).

And if you are feeling far too overwhelmed, and don't have the support that you need, talk to your OB. It could be that you simply need some help from DH so that you can sleep better, or you may be dealing with PPD.

[Tanya]

I was never able to do CIO. And the little attempts I made with DD1 backfired majorly and we had worse sleep issues for quite awhile.

Anyway, when DD2 was born, DH was determined not to create another kid that was completely dependent on Mommy. So, he took DD2 in the evenings and put her to sleep. By that point, we did have DD1 out of our bed (she was only there for 3 years straight....haha). So, I would go and lie down with her until she went to sleep and DH would take care of the baby. I did nurse her if she woke up in the middle of the night, but we tried to use the cosleeper. And I nursed for 2 years.

I'll say that my kids are fairly healthy and pretty well-behaved and happy, etc. However, I have always believed that my kids' really only problem is sleep. DD1 was a nightmare of a fussy baby and DH and I still remember being up until 2am walking her around the bedroom begging her to just go to sleep. In order to get any sleep at all, she ended up in our bed...for 3 years. Now at 6 years old, she does sleep all night in her own bed, but we still lie down with her...our latest progression is that we don't wait until she falls asleep anymore. We just give her a certain time we leave and she will accept DH once in awhile instead of just me.
DD2 was a bit of a better sleeper than DD1, but she still isn't a good sleeper. For a long time, only DH could put her to sleep on his chest because of the habit we started when she was a baby. Then she became a Mama's Girl and now she typically falls asleep on my lap or sitting next to me. Then she goes to her crib for typically 2 hours before she calls out for Mommy and will only go back to sleep next to me in our bed. If we're lucky like last night, she made it from 11pm-6:30am (then back to sleep in our bed until I woke her at 9:30am).

I let all the sleep issues stress me out with DD1. She's doing fine now, so we'll battle DD2 when she gets a bit older. At least she isn't in our bed all night long. Ha ha. She has an addiction to touching my neck for some reason. I guess my neck replaced the "milkies" (breastfeeding).

Seriously, it's tough having a newborn. I'll take a 2 year old over a newborn any day.
And as I like to remind myself when people tell their own stories about their perfect little babies that sleep all night long, all babies/kids are different. If sleep is my kids' biggest problem as babies, we'll get through it. Those perfect sleeping babies have their own set of problems. And let me tell you, I LOVE sleep. My 2.5 year old will even stay in bed with me on weekend mornings until 10 or 11am.

[Fairy]

Fairy, what exactly did you do for sleep training w/out CIO. I'd love to try.

Also, to the OP, while my ped. gave me the green light as soon as the child is 12 pounds, I just called the practice and his nurse suggested waiting until 4 months for CIO as other posters have mentioned.

Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. We were PREPARED for CIO, but in my mind, he never really cried it out that much. What we did was do the:

1. Put him down, we love you, good night, leave.
2. Cry (he did cry)
3. Go in 5 minutes later -- oh wait, he's stopped crying.
4. Done.

We got EXCEEDINGLY lucky.

Then a few weeks later, he backtracked. So we:

1. Put him down, we love you, good night, leave.
2. Cry (yep)
3. Go in 5 minutes later, he's crying, you're ok, you're ok, we love you, leave.
4. Cry
5. Go in 10 minutes later, he's crying, you're ok, kiss him, don't pick him up, you're ok, leave.
6. Cry
7. He's sleeping before another 15 mintues goes by.

Exactly one time he cried to the 15 minute mark, and it was hard on me. But that was pretty much it. Not that much crying IMO, when I think "CIO," two little visits doesn't seem like what I was expecting.

So, my "customization" was that while I know you're not supposed to spend time there, or touch them, I did sing a little song or rub his tummy or something like that for all of 30 seconds or a mimute when I'd go back in. If nothing else, it made ME feel better.

[MistieandMichael]

First off, I think it's awesome you came here to sound some things out and get some ideas...that's what I took your post as. I'm sure you've tried just about everything you can think of and that's why you posted something. GO YOU!!! :cheerleader1: I think what you really need right now if for everyone to say they understand your feelings right now...and it's ok to need that too. If not, what good are anyones questions/threads on here? If you didn't want opinions, and emotional support from other mommies, you wouldn't have come here. So all you negative nancy's out there...just hush and love another mama! Come on now. You all make it sound like she's a terrible mom fir wanting to try something when she's at her wits end...really now...

Advise:
I would say before you pull an all nighter, try more things during the day. That way you won't be so overwhelmed and sleep deprived....and more likely to "snap". (I didn't have a better way to describe that feeling) I think it's is perfectly fine to let a baby cry a little. There has to be a time where your baby is ok being awake or asleep not in your arms. I think it's perfectly fine to try to get that time even if your baby is only 8 weeks old. I say bring the swing into the room you're in and do your dishes and whatever you need to and let the baby cry a little. That way you know the baby has a nice clean diaper, is well fed and it's not time for another feeding...you are able to soothe and sweet talk the baby. But, as for the baby sleeping in your bed and having to hold the baby 24/7....no way. My mom set me down and let me cry it out as a baby and I am not traumatized from it. None of us are. I think some of the issue is our own guilt hearing the baby cry and thinking they're sooo young...and I just pushed them out a couple weeks ago....I think it's mostly an adult issue and not much with the baby itself. If there is nothing wrong with the baby, it's fed and dry...if you're not letting it cry for over say 5-10 minutes at a time, then do what you want. I just don't understand "baby wearing"...but that's JMHO.

As for your DD, maybe your DH can take over baby duty and you can have a special "just the girls" movie night or something.

[gatorsmom]

Would you ever have guessed that this many posters would reply? Please don't feel attacked. The truth is there are so many sleep methods on the market and parents feel very strongly for and against some.

After having 4 babies now, I'd say try different methods and don't feel bad. YOU have to do what you have to do to find a balance in your family life. Your baby will be fine. Not everyone will be happy all of the time (including the baby) and that's normal (because if everyone was happy all the time, YOU would be exhausted and probably miserable) And that's ok. The pay offs to 2+ children are that, if the relationships are nurtured and supported, your children could have friends for life in their siblings. Not everyone will be happy and that teaches patience, trust, consideration for others, etc.

Fwiw, I tried CIO for Gator and started around 8 weeks. It worked so so. I'd check on him every 5 minutes to rub his back or rock with him and then put him down drowsy. He's a fantastic sleeper now so maybe that had something to do with it. It didn't work with Cha Cha but I didn't try as hard as I did with Gator. With Cha Cha I started at 7 months. He's not a great sleeper. With the twins I let them sleep in their Graco Sweetpeace swings until they were 7 months old. Honestly, if you have tried everything else to no avail and can swing the price, BUY ONE. They were wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. And now the twins are great sleepers.

Don't let anyone make you feel guilty. I haven't met the perfect mom yet. Just keep trying until you find a rhythm that works for your family. :hug: And don't worry, baby will be ok. :love5:

[hellokitty1]

i was going to stop posting replies to this thread so it would die down but i felt the need to thank the additional posters since then. i appreciate the support and advice.

I haven't been talked out of CIO (and i really meant the Ferber method of progressive CIO rather than just leaving the baby for good.) But 8 weeks may be too early.

Did anyone feel like with DC#2, they wanted to make sure they did not repeat the same "mistakes" they made with dc1 (and i use the term "mistakes" loosely). i think i put a lot of that pressure on myself. dc1 was never able to go to sleep on her own. to this day, we still lay with her to go to bed. of course, it doesn't take nearly as long as it used to but i was just so hoping not to go down that path again with ds. al i want is to be able to put an awake child in his crib for him to fall asleep on his own. my dream is not over but i'll give it more time...

[egoldber]

al i want is to be able to put an awake child in his crib for him to fall asleep on his own. my dream is not over but i'll give it more time...

My older DD was like that. I could lay her in her crib and she went to sleep on her and slept all night. But not until more like 6 months. She nursed to sleep or took a bottle to fall asleep until then.

I would try not to worry about "mistakes" at this point. You're in survival mode. Hang in there and it will pass.

[gatorsmom]

i
Did anyone feel like with DC#2, they wanted to make sure they did not repeat the same "mistakes" they made with dc1 (and i use the term "mistakes" loosely). i think i put a lot of that pressure on myself. dc1 was never able to go to sleep on her own. to this day, we still lay with her to go to bed. of course, it doesn't take nearly as long as it used to but i was just so hoping not to go down that path again with ds. al i want is to be able to put an awake child in his crib for him to fall asleep on his own. my dream is not over but i'll give it more time...

I was a perfectionist with DS1. As I've added more children and have seen how they've managed to survive and thrive despite my many "mistakes", I've loosened up considerably (and I think they seem happier because I don't expect as much from myself and everyone else). And yes, definitely, I've tried not to repeat certain things that didn't work with each progressive child. As I"ve often heard here, when you know better, you do better. :)

[egoldber]

You know I just wanted to add, the one "mistake" I definitely did NOT want to make again was not getting DH more involved. With the second child it was "divide and conquer" not "me against the world". LOL!!! It became his responsibility to do DD1's bath and nighttime routine. I had him do as much soothing as he could of the baby. As soon as Amy stopped "needing" to nurse to sleep (closer to a year for her) we switched off and had him put her to bed so that she became used to someone else.

[brittone2]

Adding to what Beth said...
DS nursed to sleep until he was 2. He coslept until three when he moved into his own room. He transitioned easily to his own room and goes to sleep on his own very well (and has since he was 3ish). So in our case, while infant/toddler sleep was rough, it didn't translate to any long term problems.

DD still nurses to sleep at 2 and cosleeps.

Yes, I totally think it would be so much easier if I could put DD to bed without having our routine. But...there are many parents here who have done CIO/sleep training w/ infants and have problems w/ 3, 4 or 5 year olds who don't want to go to bed, need someone to lay with them, wake in the middle of the night or super early in the morning. Similarly, there are "nurse to sleep" parents who have kids who are great sleepers after age 1 or so. I don't think CIO/sleep training leads to long term "good" sleepers in all cases, just as I don't think nursing to sleep, etc. leads to having a long term "bad" sleeper. IMO, some of it is just personality. Even if you do CIO, you still have months ahead w/ so much variability w/ teething, gross motor milestones, changes in naps etc. that can all affect sleep patterns. IMO worrying about bad habits too soon may just make you beat your head into a wall later anyway, kwim?

eta: ITA about getting DH involved. DH had to be much more involved w/ DD (he's an involved dad in general, but he had to help w/ DD at bedtime sometimes). As a result she was better about getting comfort from him than DS was at that age. It wasn't a cure-all, but we just had to find a different system. Sometimes I did DS's bedtime routine and DH put dd in the sling and threw in a load of laundry. THe white noise would sometimes get her to sleep without nursing.

[sste]

We didn't do CIO at 8 weeks but we did run into a situation where DS would nurse, rock to sleep, and would ALWAYS awaken upon being put in his crib. For a variety of reasons it was not an option to have him sleep in our bed or for us to be up all night. I found that at that age he would cry for five or so minutes, maybe a bit more and then fall asleep. The other alternative was a multi-HOUR neverending cycle (with exponentially more TOTAL minutes of crying) of us soothing him, putting him in the crib, him crying, us picking him up, soothing him, putting him in the crib . . . you get the picture.

We also let him nap in his swing but I was too nervous to do that overnight.

In my mind letting your DC cry for five or so minutes (I think our absolute max was 10 mins at that age) isn't "CIO" as the term is popularly understood. I wouldn't go much beyond that with such a tiny baby though and in our case I really felt that part of our baby's sleep routine was five or so minutes of carrying on.

[hellokitty1]

I have said very little about DH but it has not been for a lack of participation ohis part. So I feel the need to speak up for him. :-) He has definitely taken on most all of DC1's parenting duties so he is definitely involved. I am home during the week by myself so that's why I speak mostly of myself. He definitely does what he can. So I just wanted to be clear on that part. Now if DH could just learn to fix DD's hair in the moening for school.

[mytwosons]

First, :hug5:

Does the baby take a bottle? Now might be a good time to try...Maybe you could leave your DH w/the baby and get a couple of hours one-on-one with your older daughter.

I'll admit I would always take advantage of anyone visiting. Hand off the baby and grap a few zzzs while I could. Any situation is easier to deal with after you've gotten some rest.

[maestramommy]

I have said very little about DH but it has not been for a lack of participation ohis part. So I feel the need to speak up for him. :-) He has definitely taken on most all of DC1's parenting duties so he is definitely involved. I am home during the week by myself so that's why I speak mostly of myself. He definitely does what he can. So I just wanted to be clear on that part. Now if DH could just learn to fix DD's hair in the moening for school.

:ROTFLMAO:Dh can't do the girls' hair either! And he can't dress them unless I lay out the clothes the night before. But he is very involved otherwise for someone who is gone at work all day, so I don't mind.

[Corie]

Although most people her think otherwise, my pediatrician says it is ok to do as long as the baby weighs 12 pounds. At that point, they don't need to eat every two-three hours at night (night being defined as 10pm-5am).


My son was almost 10 pounds at birth. There is absolutely NO WAY that I would
have ever CIO at 12 pounds.

I cannot believe that your pediatrician actually tells his/her patients this.

[DrSally]

Yes, I don't think it's necessarily weight, but neurological maturity, which comes with age.

[miki]

I haven't read through all the responses. I just know that you gotta do what you gotta do. I know now that DD was the easiest baby ever and now she is the easiest child ever. DS is the complete total opposite and that was quite the rude awakening. In the beginning, he had to be held always--literally!--or he would scream his head off and turn purple while he did it. I was not able to put him down for a nap until he was 7 months old. Even then, I had to nurse him down. He screamed in the swing, screamed in the bouncy, screamed in his crib. You had to hold him or wear him. The Ergo was indispensible. I was totally miserable and exhausted.

I also felt completely awful that DD was not getting any of my attention in a meaningful way. Yes, I kept her fed, bathed, and dressed but she watched so much tv and had to play on her own mostly. And since DD was already 4 when DS was born, she was very, very aware of what she was missing. Around 4 months, I finally decided to hire someone to help. I found a local kindergarten teacher who came right before the witching hour for DS started. She took both kids while I made dinner and got a little time to myself. Then she sat with DD at dinner while I put DS to bed, which was often a 2 hour ordeal. She'd stay and do activities one-on-one with DD until either DS let me go or DH got home.

Fast forward a year and a half, DS is still a very, very challenging child. Much more so than DD ever was. But he's a pretty decent sleeper now! Time was the only thing that really helped.

Always remember--you're doing the best job you know how to do for you and your family.

[mudder17]

ok, clearly i'm off my rocker and should be waiting until????

12 weeks????

I did do CIO with the help of a NP who has been running new mommy classes at our hospital for years. She was a pretty strong supporter of Weissbluth and CIO, but from all the reading she did (and she did a LOT of it), most babies don't have the cognitive ability to "get it" until at least 4 months. I think I did my first at 18 weeks (so about 4.5 months) and it worked very well, and my second probably at around 5 months, though she "got it" a lot faster. But she slept in the swing for 4 months, napped in it for 8 months, and if she fussed after sleeping in the crib for a while, I'd just not worry about it and move her to the swing. Eventually, she developed the ability to fall asleep on her own in her crib without the swing.

[nov04]

I remember those early days so well with dd2. I was really focused on our older one too and worried I would never get her to sleep on her own and stay asleep. I remember someone saying to me that the first 12 weeks are the 4th trimester and that anything peaceful and womb-like is a good thing and they *need* it.

dd2 slept in a sling for 4 months. It was the only way we could get any sleep. I was terrified she would never sleep on her own and I was "spoiling" her. Right on the dot at 4m (just like her sister), she started taking naps in her crib willingly. I'd stand near the crib and she'd gradually stretch out letting me know she wanted into her crib (really). Sometimes it took 30 seconds, sometimes 15 minutes.

Not sure what I'm trying to say, just that I can hear the exhaustion in your post and hope you can get some relief.

[MontrealMum]

:hug: I don't want to beat a dead horse so I won't say much, but I cannot say enough good things about The Happiest Baby on the Block. I was also having to lay with DS to get him to go to sleep, then creep quietly out of the room (we have a couch in there). Having a sleepytime routine worked wonders for us. With the swaddling and self-comforting - DS very early on figured out how to get one arm out which he used to self soothe. We used Kiddopatamus swaddles which are loose enough to let a child do this, but tight enough to be comforting. We also did binkies and as he got older he had a small teddy that he held on to and which he still sleeps with. Sometimes we placed binkies strategically around the crib for him to find after he'd lost the original one :) and he eventually started picking them up. I agree that having to go replace the binky is not fun!

Another recommendation I have is if you're going to do a mobile, get the Tiny Love one WITH the remote. It was not good having to go back to wind ours back up and chance stepping on a creaky floorboard! The Target Pooh one we had looked cute (to us adults), but one with a remote and longer playing time is much more useful.

[kijip]

Just wanted to chime in with hugs. :hug: We are each working with roughly the same age spread and it is hard to be cluster feeding a baby all evening when my older son really wants me to be down on the floor with him helping him find teensy lego pieces for a lego set or showing me his latest book or drawing or having me read to him. We have established kind of a family bedtime routine where we read to T and have him read to us in our bed and then my husband carried him to his bed. I am pretty much feeding baby before, during and after the whole thing. It is hard but it really does get better (my baby is about 1.5 months older than yours) and better pretty soon. I am lucky that my son will fall asleep in arms and then stay asleep once we put him down whereas before it was more of a "I'll stay asleep in your arms or sleeping right next to you" sort of thing. We do cosleep but that is a personal choice and I totally see why it does not work for all...it did not work for my older son AT ALL. I will say that TIGHT swaddling and other Happiest Baby on the Block methods really have worked for both of my sons and seem to work well for the families I know.

[KHF]

My son was almost 10 pounds at birth. There is absolutely NO WAY that I would have ever CIO at 12 pounds.

I cannot believe that your pediatrician actually tells his/her patients this.

:yeahthat:, my almost 4 month old was 9 pounds, 15 ounces at birth and 12 pounds at his 1 month appointment. He ate more at a feeding then (about 6 ounces per feeding) than he does now (down to 4 ounces). I made the choice to stop breastfeeding him because he was eating around the clock. He would literally nurse all the time. The lactation consultants were even telling me to give him a bottle because he was nursing so much. We tried everything and I was just chained to him and unable to give DD any attention at all. Between a DH in night school and me battling post partum depression, the breastfeeding just wasn't going to happen.

All this just to say that putting an arbitrary weight on a time when it's OK to CIO is crazy. If my ped ever said that, I'd question his other advice as well. Just like peds are not breastfeeding experts, they are also not sleep experts. What works for one baby, may not work for another.

I feel for you...my DD was a terrible sleeper (heck, we STILL have trouble with her...the baby sleeps better than she does thankfully). Just do what you can to share the load and try to get as much sleep as you can. My DH and I split the night. I'm more of a morning person and he's a night owl, so he would take our DD until about 1-2 am, then we'd switch. An extra bedroom is invaluable, if you have it. Right now we have a full size bed in our son's nursery, and whichever one of us is with DS at the time sleeps there.

[ThreeofUs]

Yes, I don't think it's necessarily weight, but neurological maturity, which comes with age.


A big "yeah that" to this. My goodness, what an odd thing for a ped to tell a parent. I have never heard of any research supporting this, even from the most CIO-supportive researchers and sleep experts.

[Moneypenny]

I just want to give you hope. DD nursed to sleep her first few months and then I'd put her, asleep, into her crib and she was out for the night. (Naps were much different and led to CIO at 5.5 months). At any rate, one night I nursed DD and she didn't fall asleep. I panicked and wasn't sure what to do at that point. Given how naps were going, I was convinced that putting her in her crib would lead to crying. I really had to pee so I laid her in the crib, left the light on, ran to the bathroom and rushed back in ready to pick her up and hold her in that darn rocking chair until she fell asleep and then I noticed...SHE WAS ALREADY ASLEEP. The kid just fell asleep from the drowsy state the way they are "supposed" to. And she continued to do that every night (barring teething or illness).

So, it can and does happen. Why we didn't have that kind of luck with naps, I'll never know but Weissbluth does claim that day sleep and night sleep are two different beasts and our experience bore that out.

[ray7694]

I highly recommend The Baby Whisperer as well as the message boards on the website. You can start working on the bad habits at 8 weeks. There are other methods. Good Luck

[HannaAddict]

I guess I don't understand how totally normal, human infant behavior of needing to nurse/be fed and comforted to sleep at eight weeks became considereed "bad habits" by so many parents? In looking at the responses, it seems everyone here has some sleep "issue" no matter if they are breast feeding, formula feeding, co-sleeping or even Republican or Democrat. :) Doesn't that indicate that all these sleep "problems" aren't really issues or problems or bad habits but just the way babies are hard wired? Babies need time to learn to self soothe, some need to eat more often (and that is normal), some need to suck, that they all go through growth spurts (eight weeks is a prime time for that) and as helpless infants need their moms. Why are we getting sucked into the authors making millions off of the promise of a sleep cure-all? While I am supportive of sleep deprived mamas and dads (I have been one!), babies are not small adults or puppies who can leave mom at eight weeks. I wish our collective focus was on how to get moms, who are generally the primary caregivers at this point, some time to rest and regroup. It is much harder in our modern society without family nearby and crazy hours we (the royal "we") work to pay the bills. I'm glad HelloKitty1 is reconsidering CIO and hope she can get some sleep soon.

[KHF]

ITA HannaAddict. I just had that discussion with my DH recently. He doesn't understand why DS isn't sleeping through the night yet. I pointed out that it's because he's HUNGRY! When he doesn't need to eat, he will keep sleeping.

We have definitely lucked out with DS because he's a great sleeper. He goes to bed at 8:00 or so and wakes up at 1:45 to eat, then back to sleep till about 5:30. I'm not sure what DH is complaining about! All he has to do is bring DS to me at 1:45 and he goes back to bed :) I guess DH has repressed all memories of DD getting her days and nights mixed up for months on end.

I know what it's like to be at the end of the rope with sleep. It's not fun, and I really hope that the OP can figure out a way to sleep soon.

[egoldber]

I think it doesn't help that so many people outright LIE about their kids sleep habits because they are too embarrassed to tell the truth. We are obsessed as a society with kids "sleeping through the night" and I'm not sure why.

I am one of the few people I know IRL who freely admits that they have a terrible sleeper. Amy has always been and still is a wretched sleeper. She has only slept through the night a handful of times in her life. We have worked out a system that works for us and I'm OK with it. But when I tell people how she sleeps, people are often shocked, but then later others will come up to me and (quietly) say they do something similar or that their kid is a "poor sleeper" too.

I think part of it is we equate "good sleepers" with good parenting. If your kid is a "bad sleeper" then you must be a "bad parent". Which is hogwash, but so many people buy into this.

[arivecchi]

My son was almost 10 pounds at birth. There is absolutely NO WAY that I would
have ever CIO at 12 pounds.

I cannot believe that your pediatrician actually tells his/her patients this.

I should clarify it's the earlier of 12 pounds or 3 months, but the nurses in his practive advise waiting until 4 months. I'm not telling the OP to do this. I just think my ped believes a lot of people are more conservative about CIO than they need to and I agree. No one has all the right answers, so I would not be so quick to judge other parents.

[hellokitty1]

I think it doesn't help that so many people outright LIE about their kids sleep habits because they are too embarrassed to tell the truth. We are obsessed as a society with kids "sleeping through the night" and I'm not sure why.

I am one of the few people I know IRL who freely admits that they have a terrible sleeper. Amy has always been and still is a wretched sleeper. She has only slept through the night a handful of times in her life. We have worked out a system that works for us and I'm OK with it. But when I tell people how she sleeps, people are often shocked, but then later others will come up to me and (quietly) say they do something similar or that their kid is a "poor sleeper" too.

I think part of it is we equate "good sleepers" with good parenting. If your kid is a "bad sleeper" then you must be a "bad parent". Which is hogwash, but so many people buy into this.

:yeahthat:

[boolady]

I think it doesn't help that so many people outright LIE about their kids sleep habits because they are too embarrassed to tell the truth. We are obsessed as a society with kids "sleeping through the night" and I'm not sure why.

I am one of the few people I know IRL who freely admits that they have a terrible sleeper. Amy has always been and still is a wretched sleeper. She has only slept through the night a handful of times in her life. We have worked out a system that works for us and I'm OK with it. But when I tell people how she sleeps, people are often shocked, but then later others will come up to me and (quietly) say they do something similar or that their kid is a "poor sleeper" too.

I think part of it is we equate "good sleepers" with good parenting. If your kid is a "bad sleeper" then you must be a "bad parent". Which is hogwash, but so many people buy into this.

YES! DD is a great sleeper now, but up to about 6 months old, she was an atrocious sleeper who cried A LOT. It did not help that most of my best friends' children were, according to them, great sleepers.

[deborah_r]

I'm probably guilty of lying about my kids sleep, because if I say they sleep poorly, I will probably get some advice I do not want to try (like CIO) and I don't want to tell random people that we co-sleep. Lots of people still find that to be weird, and I figure it's none of their business. I usually just lie about my kid's sleep to the ped also, because I will just be given CIO advice.

[gatorsmom]

I'm probably guilty of lying about my kids sleep, because if I say they sleep poorly, I will probably get some advice I do not want to try (like CIO) and I don't want to tell random people that we co-sleep. Lots of people still find that to be weird, and I figure it's none of their business. I usually just lie about my kid's sleep to the ped also, because I will just be given CIO advice.

You know, I'm sure it happens that people lie about how well their babies sleep but I just don't understand that. I mean, no judgment either way, this is just news to me. When my ped and every one else asked me about how much sleep everyone was getting I'd just tell them all- it sucks right now and we are working on it. Eventually we'll get more sleep but right now they are young and don't sleep consistently. Every parent goes through it. I never thought that a sleeping baby would be something to boast about. interesting.

[hellokitty1]

I usually just lie about my kid's sleep to the ped also, because I will just be given CIO advice.

i won't lie to my ped that sleep is better than it really is, but i will lie about whether he sleeps on his back (sure, whatever) and is he in a crib or bassinet (nope, neither).

[egoldber]

I never thought that a sleeping baby would be something to boast about. interesting.

I don't think it's a boasting thing. I think people are afraid, as Debbie mentioned, that they will a) be offered advice they don't want, b) be perceived as "weird" if they have unconventional sleeping arrangements or c) that others will think they are poor parents.

ETA: I literally get looks of shock when I say that at 2.5 Amy does not yet sleep through the night, no I'm not "working on it" and that we partially co-sleep. And like I say, lots of other people will then privately tell me that they also co-sleep in some way with their "poor sleeper".

[todzwife]

ITA Beth. Maddie is 3 and still sleeps with us. She FINALLY sleeps through the night, but that only started about 6 months ago. I want her out of our bed, but I need sleep more than I want to move her so she's still with us.

They are only little for such a short time. I'm trying to enjoy it all, even being continuously sleep deprived.

[KrisM]

I don't think it's a boasting thing. I think people are afraid, as Debbie mentioned, that they will a) be offered advice they don't want, b) be perceived as "weird" if they have unconventional sleeping arrangements or c) that others will think they are poor parents.

ETA: I literally get looks of shock when I say that at 2.5 Amy does not yet sleep through the night, no I'm not "working on it" and that we partially co-sleep. And like I say, lots of other people will then privately tell me that they also co-sleep in some way with their "poor sleeper".


I got those looks with DS1. He didn't regularly sleep through until about a year ago, just before he turned 4. Even now, about twice a week, he comes in our room, but mostly he does stay in his bed all night.

[stella]

My bad news is that Henry (age 18 months!) has recently started getting up at night again. If Dh hears him first, he ends up in our bed. If I hear him, I usually get him and we both get in dd's double bed. I can't explain why - probably because I am mostly sleep-walking at that point.

But once a night is better than nursing all night long and using Mama as a human pacifier. Ohhh how I remember those days! I thought I would die.

I don't know if it's developmental, a bad habit, or if I should have his ears checked, but I just wish we could back to sleeping all night.

If I am remembering correctly from my older 2 children (7 and 6), the sleeping through the night is something that comes and goes. I don't lie to anyone about it, but I'm not bringing it up in conversation either.

[deborah_r]

You know, I'm sure it happens that people lie about how well their babies sleep but I just don't understand that. I mean, no judgment either way, this is just news to me. When my ped and every one else asked me about how much sleep everyone was getting I'd just tell them all- it sucks right now and we are working on it. Eventually we'll get more sleep but right now they are young and don't sleep consistently. Every parent goes through it. I never thought that a sleeping baby would be something to boast about. interesting.

I don't boast about their sleep. I just say "oh, he sleeps fine". DS2 (and DS1 when he was under 3) get enough sleep, they just wake several times during the night. DS1 does not anymore, pretty much stopped right at 3 years old - he sleeps like a log now.

Also most people's sleep solution ideas for a baby/toddler will not work for me as we are all in one (big) bedroom, and the crib is long gone.

And you've honestly never heard people boast about their child's sleep? I definitely have. Especially after you tell them how tired you are because your little one isn't sleeping well!

[gatorsmom]

I don't think it's a boasting thing. I think people are afraid, as Debbie mentioned, that they will a) be offered advice they don't want, b) be perceived as "weird" if they have unconventional sleeping arrangements or c) that others will think they are poor parents.

ETA: I literally get looks of shock when I say that at 2.5 Amy does not yet sleep through the night, no I'm not "working on it" and that we partially co-sleep. And like I say, lots of other people will then privately tell me that they also co-sleep in some way with their "poor sleeper".

No judgment- don't take me wrong. It just never occurred that people would judge me when I say my babies and kids aren't sleeping through the night. I do say I'm working on it because I get tired of the advice from wellwishers and saying this usually implies, 'thanks for the advice but we've got a plan." Frankly, I don't know what it implies, but for some reason if I say "we are working on it" people keep quiet with the suggestions. And we actually ARE working on it. Gator needs help with bad dreams, Cha Cha has a hard time settling down at night, the babies wake up hungry early. These are all things we are working on so that they can get a restful night's sleep.

I coslept with all my babies and told everyone I did. I guess I got some weird looks (especially when i said I coslept with the twins for a long time), but I always insisted I knew what I was doing, the kids were safe and encouraged others to do it if they were really sleep deprived. It's sad that others feel they have to lie or be judged. I guess I'm lucky I never felt that. Ignorance can be bliss sometimes. :)

[maestramommy]

One cosleeping mom told me if anyone asks whether your kids are sleeping through the night she would say "yes" because to her, sleeping for 4-6 hours without a feeding was sleeping through the night. Or to just say, "he/she sleeps very well." That way you don't have to deal with unsolicited advice, unless you're really have a problem and want advice. Works for me!

[MistieandMichael]

I wouldn't lie to your ped though. You are supposed to be honest with what is actually going on. If not they don't know how to help...or if there are other issues, it may have to do with their sleeping....and you may never know because you weren't telling your ped the truth. I tell my personal dr the truth about anything they ask...and if they give me advise I don't want or need, I let them know I'm going to continue on my way until I see issues for myself. Which is ok...but atleast your dr knows what is really going on.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I wouldn't lie to your ped though. You are supposed to be honest with what is actually going on. If not they don't know how to help...or if there are other issues, it may have to do with their sleeping....and you may never know because you weren't telling your ped the truth. I tell my personal dr the truth about anything they ask...and if they give me advise I don't want or need, I let them know I'm going to continue on my way until I see issues for myself. Which is ok...but atleast your dr knows what is really going on.

Yeah, if there was some medical concern that I was worried about I might bring up the sleep with the ped but normal, healthy baby? I see no reason because they are going to give me advice, not medical expertise on the subject. I can get advice from a million sources. When you have kids you might understand it a bit better; eventually you just decide that some things are parenting choices or things that are just what make your child unique and not really something that requires any further input. Also, sometimes even though you feel confident in your choices and think you can brush off unnecessary advice it can wiggle it's way in and start to make you doubt things. I have pretty strong beliefs and have researched very well so I feel confident in a lot of my decisions but just a comment by the Dr. can make me second guess everything I have read. I almost always stay my course but now I have this bit of doubt.

Fwiw, my ped has never asked about sleep.




I never lie about the boys sleep to anyone. I don't want to pretend that it is all sunshine and roses like some people like to. However, time has a way of making things seem not so bad. If I talked to someone when ds was 3 weeks old I would talk about the misery that is sleep deprivation. But now? It just seems like such a small blip in my life that it's easy to sit back and say that it will get better, hang in there.

Beth

[inmypjs]

I have found this thread so interesting! There are so many ideas about what is appropriate and what works. The only thing I feel that I know for sure is - they are all different! I will add my experience to the pile, FWIW.

We did a form of CIO with my youngest, now 4, when he was 4.5 months. At that point he was getting up 5-6 times per night and would not go back to sleep unless he nursed. He also never took a bottle, so there wasn't any hope of nighttime relief for me. I was so tired and just a mess! My DH and I read every sleep book imaginable, talked to our ped, and finally decided to do it. Our "version" was to go in the room and check on him every 20 min or so, and we'd also pat and reassure too. But we would not pick up. In some ways, it was kind of a combo between CIO and the Sleep Lady's ideas (sleep lady shuffle). I should also say that when I say "we" - I mean DH! After the first night, I was such a wreck, that DH and I agreed that I would go stay at SIL's house. That was good, I think. DH handled it much better than I did. It took 4 nights, and the crying got less each night. After that, and I swear I am *not* lying about this, he just never got up at night. Unless he was sick. And that's still the case, cross my heart.

My DD is 2 and she was just a much better sleeper from the start. She slept through the night on her own at about 9 weeks or so, so it just wasn't an issue.

I have pretty much always put my kids down for naps/bedtime fully awake. I think it started because my DS was an incredibly alert baby, and I honestly had a hard time rocking him to sleep! So we just didn't. There's lots of snuggling and cuddling in the mornings and evenings, but at our house, you go to sleep on your own, in your own bed. I also was pretty careful to separate sleep from feeding most of the time. I am by no means saying this is the only right way and what everyone should do - but it works for us and I can truly say I'm happy with both of their sleeping habits.

I don't regret doing CIO at the time and in the way we did. IMHO, 8 weeks sounds young, but I think you could start to behaviorially shaping sleep now. I really don't think there is a "right" way - you just have to do what you feel comfortable with.

I definitely want to send out major HUGS to you - it is sooooo hard to be sooooo tired! Hang in there and know that it will get better! You WILL sleep again!

[KHF]

My bad news is that Henry (age 18 months!) has recently started getting up at night again. If Dh hears him first, he ends up in our bed. If I hear him, I usually get him and we both get in dd's double bed. I can't explain why - probably because I am mostly sleep-walking at that point.

My DD started doing this about that age...she was about 15 months, I think. She started sleeping more or less through the night (10-11 pm to 5 am) at about 3 months. Then around 15 months, it was up and down all night long. This has continued till now. She may have one or two nights where she sleeps through, but then some nights she's up between 1-5 times. She just wants me to tuck her back in. While I was pregnant, I just let her sleep with me, but now that I'm sleeping in the baby's room that's not always possible. Like egoldber, I've just resigned myself to the fact that she's a light sleeper. It's hard to argue with, since she gets that from me.

I get all sorts of suggestions, and we have tried many of them...but bottom line is, she's a light sleeper and I just have to deal with that.

[MistieandMichael]

I usually just lie about my kid's sleep to the ped also, because I will just be given CIO advice.

Ok, so there was this post and a couple similar...if you didn't post anything like this then I obviously wasn't talking about you. Even if you are one that doesn't tell the DR the whole truth...whatever...it's what you feel is right and it's your kid so...again, whatever. But, unless you are a dr, even if you've read the book store, you don't have the schooling to say what is important info for your ped and what isn't. Now it sounds like your Ped hasn't asked at all...so then my post also wouldn't apply. IMHO it's the same as if I were robbed and the police asked me detailed questions about the robbery...I wouldn't think to myself, well I read a bunch of books and watched a lot of shows so I know better...Would you tell them what they wanted to hear or would you tell them the detailed truth? I know one subject is dealing with kids and the other is law...so don't think I'm trying to say lying to your Dr is against the law or anything...just an example of people thinking they know more than the people that have went to school and now get paid to know this stuff. There is a reason they get paid for it and a reason you take your DC to them.

Now to the part that really got to me...

When you have kids you might understand it a bit better; eventually you just decide that some things are parenting choices or things that are just what make your child unique and not really something that requires any further input.

I don't pretend to know everything about parenting...and yes, I am pregnant with my FIRST. But I do also have a whole lot of life experience dealing with DC's. With their waking up at all hours during the night, teething, potty training, all the way up to making sure a 17yr old gets to and from school and work on time...making sure home work is done, they've eaten healthy meals, staying out of trouble and graduating high school. Trust me, just because I haven't popped one of my own out doesn't mean I haven't btdt. There is nothing more that gets under my skin more than that comment. I'm sure it wasn't meant to get to me that way...But I've heard it enough I could scream...and it just doesn't apply to me.

Back on topic though...every dc is different and one thing that worked for one kid may not work for another...shoot the thing that worked yesterday for your dc may not work today...lets not kid ourselves. :) My aunt put it the best...she said "I'm pretty sure it started THE day I conceived...and it's been 16yrs...and I've been tired every day between and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel." :) The bottom line is, each and every one of us has a different way of dealing with things and it doesn't mean one way is better than another or that you should be afraid of trying new things...or even "classic" things our parents and grandparents did. Sure you have a strong opinion...but my grandma would tell me "Mistie, you better get that baby in it's own crib...and you know what...it's ok for a baby to cry a little...you don't have to jump up every time it makes a noise." I edited out all of the southern twang and cuss words. :wink2:

[kijip]

.just an example of people thinking they know more than the people that have went to school and now get paid to know this stuff. There is a reason they get paid for it and a reason you take your DC to them.

snip


I don't pretend to know everything about parenting...and yes, I am pregnant with my FIRST. But I do also have a whole lot of life experience dealing with DC's.

Pediatricians are not parenting experts, nor do most have any training or education specific to sleep. My ped freely admits his knowledge of children's sleep comes from...his kids and the same books the rest of the research type parents read. And this is a very popular ped known throughout the region as one of the best. A baby not sleeping all the way through at night is not a health issue in a healthy child. Advice from ped does not equal medicine just because it comes from a ped. For example, many give out what is generally accepted as not the current information about carseats or tv or starting solid foods by their very own professional association.

FWIW, there is no life experience comparable to parenting other than parenting. Not all but raising a sibling (which I did), not babysitting (which I did), not teaching. Parenting is a unique journey with different parents adopting many different styles successfully and unsuccessfully. Welcome aboard!

[deborah_r]

I wouldn't lie to your ped though. You are supposed to be honest with what is actually going on.

I'm honest enough with them, IMO. I learned over the years, for me anyway, what issues are important to discuss with them. I know they get enough sleep, they just might not get it the way the doctor would like (in a crib by themselves for 12 hours straight). I am not worried about their sleep. You'd have to be in the doctor's office to hear how the question usually comes - she's running down a list of things and one of them is sleeping. Along with gems like "he's old enough now to turn his carseat around" right at 12 months old. And (scrunching nose) "How much longer do you plan to breastfeed him?" I have not yet found a ped which perfectly matches up with my parenting style, so to avoid frustration, I focus on medical advice I need from them, and try to stay away from parenting advice.

[egoldber]

I have not yet found a ped which perfectly matches up with my parenting style, so to avoid frustration, I focus on medical advice I need from them, and try to stay away from parenting advice.

I generally love my ped group for their medical advice (they are always up on the latest research and are endlessly patient with my questions about the story I just heard on NPR....) and they are truly breastfeeding friendly which is so rare.

But sleep is the one area where my peds and I do not see eye to eye. But at this point they know me well enough to just look at me and say, "You know, she's old enough that you can CIO if you want to", and I say "Yup." and we move on. :)

[cdlamis]

Along with gems like "he's old enough now to turn his carseat around" right at 12 months old. And (scrunching nose) "How much longer do you plan to breastfeed him?" I have not yet found a ped which perfectly matches up with my parenting style, so to avoid frustration, I focus on medical advice I need from them, and try to stay away from parenting advice.

Exactly! Before having children, I assumed doctors had the training and expertise about everything child related and would have listened to them. But, I have seen too many doctors that are NOT trained in areas such as car seat safety, breastfeeding, safe co-sleeping but they still act like they do.

[mamicka]

I don't pretend to know everything about parenting...and yes, I am pregnant with my FIRST. But I do also have a whole lot of life experience dealing with DC's. With their waking up at all hours during the night, teething, potty training, all the way up to making sure a 17yr old gets to and from school and work on time...making sure home work is done, they've eaten healthy meals, staying out of trouble and graduating high school. Trust me, just because I haven't popped one of my own out doesn't mean I haven't btdt. There is nothing more that gets under my skin more than that comment. I'm sure it wasn't meant to get to me that way...But I've heard it enough I could scream...and it just doesn't apply to me.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive here & it's pretty obvious that you have lots & lots of experience with kids of all ages. But there really is no substitute for having your own kids. When it's your own, it's different. It has nothing to do with "popping it out" it has everything to do with being the ulitmate responsible party. That changes everything, IMO.

[MistieandMichael]

See that's where there must be confusion...and I will start a new thread about it instead of taking this one over.

[hellokitty1]

ok, can't believe this post hasn't died yet.

in any case, i just posted a thread on two swings I am looking into. if you have comments on the two i am considering, pls respond. thanks.