UPDATE in post 9! Child dev. experts - ? on bowel control while sleeping

[maestramommy]

Dora has been on this slow road to pting since last fall. She is dry during her waking hours, and poops very well on the potty. The problem we have is that she still poops during her nap. We think this happened at the beginning of pting. She used to poop in the mornings, then it gradually shifted until she was pooping in her diaper during afternoon nap. Although she will poop in the potty now, she will still poop in her diaper during nap about 2-3 times a week, even if she's already pooped before the nap. The problem with this is twofold. 1) We don't want her to get another UTI 2) keeping a pooped up diaper on during nap is giving her very ugly painful rashes on her vulva area. Last night she woke up 3 times crying that her bum hurt. We had to change her (barely wet) diaper and slather on the vaseline.

We have a very powerful incentive prize and we were thinking of trying to get her to go 7 days in a row without pooping during her nap. Dh's one worry is what happens if she gets 6 days clean, then messes up on day 7? We'd have to start over and that might be devastating. Which is why we aren't telling her what the prize is, only that she will get a special present. The other problem (bigger one) is that we don't actually know if it's a reasonable expectation that she hold the poop while she is asleep. She has occasionally woken up with a clean diaper, then immediately asked to go poop, but more frequently will not need to go at all. I'm just wondering if a 3.5 yo's body is capable of holding the bowels during sleep. I know every kid is different, but I wanted to know maybe HOW would I know she can do it? Any insight to this? I'm not any kind of expert on this age level (basically anyone younger than 9 LOL!). Thanks!

[pinkmomagain]

Hmmm, my 3.5 yo has been pottytrained for quite awhile, but I can't even imagine her at this age having a bowel movement while she is taking a nap (sleeping). Well, actually, she doesn't take a nap either.

I don't know anything about the whole developmental thing, so I can't answer that. But I wonder if there is a way to alter that pattern to pooping earlier or later in the day? Or a way to get her to fully empty her bowels before nap...ie. a long book read to her on the potty or a video to keep her sitting her there long enough?

Also, if you do an incentive, I wouldn't do 7 days in a row. I'd give some wiggle room and try to encourage success, ie. 7 days period. In other words, it may take a month to get those 7 days. And tell her the prize....or better yet, have her chose it....that might make her want to try more. Although, I'm not sure I'm even convinced that she can control it? Any way to tell if it's during sleep (which is what I assumed), or while she is trying to fall asleep, or as soon as she awakens? Has your ped given his opinion?

[maestramommy]

I don't know anything about the whole developmental thing, so I can't answer that. But I wonder if there is a way to alter that pattern to pooping earlier or later in the day? Or a way to get her to fully empty her bowels before nap...ie. a long book read to her on the potty or a video to keep her sitting her there long enough?

We have actually managed to get her to poop in the mornings. Actually, this is the single best way of predicting whether or not she will poop during nap. On the days she poops well in before nap, she'll be clean after. The trouble is, on the days she goes to school, she almost NEVER even uses the bathroom. By the time I get her to poop at home, she's probably been holding it for a while, so the poop is rather hard, and there's not a whole lot. Then during her nap she poops a big yucky one.



Also, if you do an incentive, I wouldn't do 7 days in a row. I'd give some wiggle room and try to encourage success, ie. 7 days period. In other words, it may take a month to get those 7 days. And tell her the prize....or better yet, have her chose it....that might make her want to try more. Although, I'm not sure I'm even convinced that she can control it? Any way to tell if it's during sleep (which is what I assumed), or while she is trying to fall asleep, or as soon as she awakens? Has your ped given his opinion?

She has been doing this for a month now. That is, a month of pooping 2-3 times a week during nap. So obviously she's hit 7 days without. I guess that's why we're starting to wonder whether an incentive might be more effective. And we chose the incentive knowing she's been crazy for it (pair of croclings). We just want to be sure she's physiologically capable of coming through.

I have not asked the ped yet. He was going to be the next person I call. I just wanted to get a feel for whether anyone else has had this experience.

[brittone2]

Have you looked into encopresis? DS had some ongoing constipation type of issues for a long time, and even once the constipation had seemingly cleared up somewhat, he dealt w/ encopresis. Sometimes if they tend toward constipation or withholding, or have had a history along those lines, the stuff behind the BM that comes out sort of just (TMI) oozes out. When DS was 3, he was PT'd, but wouldn't poop every day. As a result he'd sometimes have "skiddies" (as he called them) of varying severity. If they have a history of withholding or constipation, they can lose the feeling of needing to go, and with stretched out intestines, it can complicate things further (they can hold a lot of stool in behind the occasional poop that comes out).

I would talk w/ the ped. I would highly doubt it is under her control at all.

You might try googling to see if encopresis descriptions ring a bell.

I think technically it isn't considered encopresis until after 4, but I still describe DS's that way, as he was PT'd for poop, but because of constipation issues, etc. he still got involuntary "leakage" that came out.

[maestramommy]

Thanks Beth! I just googled encopresis, and it doesn't quite sound like Dora. Because although sometimes her poops (on the potty) are hard, sometimes they are normal, even soft. And she doesn't have any leakage issues. It's just pooping during nap. However, the Wiki did have one useful suggestion, and that was to have her go at a regular time. I can do this when she is at home. Harder when she's at school, although I can talk to the teacher about it. Dora's on spring break this week, so I'm hoping to get in a week's worth of regular potty time after breakfast. She already eats fiberous foods, plenty of fruit, etc. The kicker is water. I know she's not drinking as much as she should.

[KpbS]

The kicker is water. I know she's not drinking as much as she should.

Water definitely makes all the difference here. I encourage DS to drink a certain amount of juice (1/2 apple juice+water--you could go all juice) w/ breakfast, mostly just to make sure he is hydrated enough. He knows to drink down to one line on the cup for breakfast--another line for lunch. This might help her regulate things better. We've used the gerber color change cups (look like little dumbbells and bpa free) and it's easy to see exactly how much has been consumed.

I would also think about her knowing what the prize is if you think that she has control over it. I think it can be more of an incentive when they are so young--concrete thinkers and all.

GL

[maestramommy]

Water definitely makes all the difference here. I encourage DS to drink a certain amount of juice (1/2 apple juice+water--you could go all juice) w/ breakfast, mostly just to make sure he is hydrated enough. He knows to drink down to one line on the cup for breakfast--another line for lunch. This might help her regulate things better. We've used the gerber color change cups (look like little dumbbells and bpa free) and it's easy to see exactly how much has been consumed.

I would also think about her knowing what the prize is if you think that she has control over it. I think it can be more of an incentive when they are so young--concrete thinkers and all.

GL

Dora gets about 5-6 oz of straight OJ every morning with breakfast. She's actually not used to drinking juice like that. She used to drink only water, and as we work through a carton I have to start watering it because it gets rather thick and I think it's too sweet for her. On days that she drinks all of it in one meal and maybe some water she will poop within 30 minutes. So I will keep trying that.

About the incentive. The reason we hesitate to let her know what it is, is because if she poops on day 6 or 7 for example, and has to start over, we're afraid she might be crushed, or not understand. She's been wanting Crocs for 1.5 years now. Every time we're at a store and she sees them she really really wants them. Dora's pretty stoic about most things but we want to be sure that she is capable of doing this, not just motivated.

[KpbS]

...She's been wanting Crocs for 1.5 years now. Every time we're at a store and she sees them she really really wants them. Dora's pretty stoic about most things but we want to be sure that she is capable of doing this, not just motivated.

Oh that is really sweet. I am rooting for her :)

[maestramommy]

Well, today was Day 7 of Dora successfully taking a nap without pooping in her diaper. So she got her Crocs:boogie: Now I don't know how much of a real test it was because 1) she was with me all week since it was spring break, so I was able to make her go more often, not giving her a chance to hold it, and 2) We didn't tell her about the incentive until yesterday, so she only had one more day to go. We've been putting a smiley face on the calendar every day she woke with a clean dipe. Yesterday we counted them off and said she needed one more. We just told her she would get a "special present" if she didn't poop during nap. She kept talking about the special present all day, and it was the first thing she asked for after today's nap. In true Dora form, she didn't jump up and down when she opened them. Just said, "Oh, new shoes!" and "They're sandals!" But she wanted to put them on right away, so we knew she liked them. And later she said they were very pretty:p'

Now let's see how it goes this week. ;)


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[elephantmeg]

yeah for Dora! :)

[Wife_and_mommy]

Yay, Dora!

Your OP was interesting. My DS is a bit younger than Dora and pee-trained in a week but only pooped in potty a time or two. He deliberately waits until nap or bedtime(when he wears a dipe) to poop. I'm reluctant to do a prize because I'm sure he'd continue dipe pooping after he got the prize. Maybe it's worth a shot... He'll be wearing nighttime dipes for a long while so there's no getting around it.

Please do update and let us know how D does in the coming weeks. You're inspiring me to possibly give it a try.

[DrSally]

:yay: Glad it's working!