So what do you think of the Air Force one flyover of NYC?

[KBecks]

Flying very low over Manhattan and freaking people out?
If I were in NYC and saw it, I would have been freaked.

[writermama]

Gee. Haven't those guys ever heard of photoshop or CGI?

From the little I've heard, it sounded like a bad idea. An expensive bad idea. A scary bad idea. A really bad idea.

[mommylamb]

It was not a smart move at all. I don't blaim people for being very afraid and really angry.

ETA: It's especially awful because they didn't even tell Mayor Bloomberg about it!

[billysmommy]

A very bad idea!!! And then to just say It was a mistake and it won't happen again?!?!?! It shouldn't have happened in the first place

The NYPD didn't want to keep it secret knowing the reaction that people who saw/heard those planes would have but the FAA threatened federal sanctions against the NYPD and the mayors office if they failed to keep it secret from the public. I just don't see how it would be a big deal if the public did know about it if it was a photo-op

http://wcbstv.com/politics/air.force.one.2.996457.html

[Ceepa]

Ridiculous and unnecessary.

[SnuggleBuggles]

It was a stupid idea. If they really felt the need to do such a thing (I can't think of a good reason), the public should have been notified. The police dept. knew a week ahead of time but the mayor wasn't told.

Beth

[bnme]

I think it's obvious they didn't want the mayor to know because they knew he wouldn't allow it. I can't even understand what the point of the photo was. It' was totally disrespectful to all NYers.

I am a NYer and was working in NYC on 9/11/01 and I can tell you that seeing that would be extremely upsetting and scary to any Nyer.

[Melbel]

Extremely bad idea. In addition to freaking people out, it was a tremendous waste of over $328,000 in taxpayer dollars when Obama chides others to tighten their belts.

[mommylamb]

Extremely bad idea. In addition to freaking people out, it was a tremendous waste of over $328,000 in taxpayer dollars when Obama chides others to tighten their belts.

A waste of taxpayer dollars certainly. The most egregious waste of tax payer dollars in the pentagon-or in other agencies by that matter- certainly not. The pentagon loses more than that as a regular occurrence sadly. And, I really don't see how this is Obama's fault at all. I don't think he personally signed off on that decision. The buck stops here is one thing, but you have to be realistic given the size of our bureaucracy.

[calv]

totally clueless but what was this about? TIA

[KBecks]

And, I really don't see how this is Obama's fault at all. I don't think he personally signed off on that decision. The buck stops here is one thing, but you have to be realistic given the size of our bureaucracy.

I suspect someone very high up planned this. It's not like just anybody in the administration gets access to Air Force One.

[Naranjadia]

I suspect someone very high up planned this. It's not like just anybody in the administration gets access to Air Force One.

It wasn't the real Air Force One, it was a substitute. Not that that makes the photo-op any less stupid.

[KBecks]

It wasn't the real Air Force One, it was a substitute. Not that that makes the photo-op any less stupid.

I don't think just anybody in the administration gets to take out "backup Air Force One" either. Security is probably VERY HIGH for both aircraft.

[KBecks]

Here is a Guardian article with a video. Holy cow, I would be terrified to see this in NYC post -9/11. The plane was extremely low and it looks like a 9/11 repeat.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/29/obama-air-force-one-new-york

[mommylamb]

I suspect someone very high up planned this. It's not like just anybody in the administration gets access to Air Force One.

I wonder if Bush were still President if I would have jumped to this conclusion just because I don't like the guy. I'd like to think not.

[arivecchi]

I think it was a dumb move, but not as huge a mistake as others that have really affected the well-being of our country. This article explains who was responsible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/nyregion/29plane.html?sq=fly-over&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=2&adxnnlx=1241118114-jTDrE01Hu1pAY8OPiMnc2Q

[maylips]

Agreed that this was a VERY stupid decision on someone's part. However, if you're implying that, by "someone high up" approved it, you mean Obama, I have to HOPE he has about a million other things on his plate than approving photo opps. Surely he isn't appraised on such minute details. But I would hope someone would lose their job over this because of the fear factor and the waste of money. They could have hired a 13 year old to photo op that picture for $20.

[bnme]

My question is why would they want a picture of Air Force One flying over NYC? Did anyone see any direct explanation for that? What kind of ad campaign was that going to be?

[ellies mom]

I've heard speculation that is was a training flight. Practicing on flight simulators only gets you so far, so they occassionally do things of this sort. I heard from someone that has been involved with one of these training flights before that the Secret Service/Air Force's MO is "Deny, Deny, Deny". Which probably speaks more to the mindset of secrecy and security that the military types have than anything else.

[KBecks]

I wonder if Bush were still President if I would have jumped to this conclusion just because I don't like the guy. I'd like to think not.

The Bush team didn't send a presidential 747 over NYC for a publicity photo. ;)

I think it's reasonable to conclude that presidential jets are closely held assets. This isn't some novice staffer's screw-up.

[KBecks]

I've heard speculation that is was a training flight. Practicing on flight simulators only gets you so far, so they occassionally do things of this sort. I heard from someone that has been involved with one of these training flights before that the Secret Service/Air Force's MO is "Deny, Deny, Deny". Which probably speaks more to the mindset of secrecy and security that the military types have than anything else.

Oh yeah, great to run a training flight w/a presidential jet in an area where tens of thousands of people work. I don't think so.

[mommylamb]

The Bush team didn't send a presidential 747 over NYC for a publicity photo. ;)

I think it's reasonable to conclude that presidential jets are closely held assets. This isn't some novice staffer's screw-up.

No they didn't do that. But, should I even begin to talk about what they did do? As inappropriate and stupid as this was it kind of pales in comparison.

Sometimes I think it's the right thing to do to try and look outside your own partisan perspective and try and gauge things from a non-bias footing. I know it's hard. It's hard for me to do too. But I honestly think if it were the other way around I wouldn't take that position.

[KBecks]

Agreed that this was a VERY stupid decision on someone's part. However, if you're implying that, by "someone high up" approved it, you mean Obama, I have to HOPE he has about a million other things on his plate than approving photo opps. Surely he isn't appraised on such minute details. But I would hope someone would lose their job over this because of the fear factor and the waste of money. They could have hired a 13 year old to photo op that picture for $20.

I don't know who, but it would have to be someone senior enough to command all the resources and make it happen. I've heard people speculate that it could be the chief of staff or someone too senior to "get fired over it" it may be seen as be too embarrassing to have someone too close to Obama take responsibility.

I don't know. It was reckless, wasteful and wrong.

I think of people being asked to do this and their reaction "no way! are you kidding?" But, someone pushed this through I think. I don't think you can just sneak out a presidential jet and a couple of fighter jets.

I think it's nuts that they informed the police because they knew there would be 911 calls. That's just so crazy. And wrong.

[arivecchi]

No they didn't do that. But, should I even begin to talk about what they did do? As inappropriate and stupid as this was it kind of pales in comparison.

Sometimes I think it's the right thing to do to try and look outside your own partisan perspective and try and gauge things from a non-bias footing. I know it's hard. It's hard for me to do too. But I honestly think if it were the other way around I wouldn't take that position.
Exactly. Well said.

[TwinFoxes]

My question is why would they want a picture of Air Force One flying over NYC? Did anyone see any direct explanation for that? What kind of ad campaign was that going to be?

It was for promotional photos, not an ad campaign. They'd probably be used for all sorts of things, like if a newspaper was doing a story on AF1 they'd get a stock promo photo. Or if Or they'd probably be enlarged and hung in Air Force bases, or used on websites, that sort of thing.

The previous photo (the one to be replaced) was of AF1 flying in front of Mt. Rushmore...and it's on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One

I don't think at this point anyone is arguing it was a good idea. There's a good chance that the head of the White House's Military Office will get fired. He admits it was his idea...and he's by no means a low-level staffer. He used to be Secretary of the Army, he's a bigwig...and should have known better.

I also find it doubtful that the President knew about this before hand: what with swine flu, two wars, budget battles, not to mention Bo the dog...I can't imagine anyone would have thought to mention this to him.

[KBecks]

No they didn't do that. But, should I even begin to talk about what they did do? As inappropriate and stupid as this was it kind of pales in comparison.

Sometimes I think it's the right thing to do to try and look outside your own partisan perspective and try and gauge things from a non-bias footing. I know it's hard. It's hard for me to do too. But I honestly think if it were the other way around I wouldn't take that position.

I would be equally livid if this happened with Bush. If you are saying that if Bush did this (to clarify - if it happened in the Bush admin) and you would be OK, that's nuts. I think it's reasonable to be disappointed and disgusted with this event because it was reckless and wasteful and disrespecful, I would even call it emotionally abusive, to the people in NYC.

[KBecks]

It was for promotional photos, not an ad campaign. They'd probably be used for all sorts of things, like if a newspaper was doing a story on AF1 they'd get a stock promo photo. Or if Or they'd probably be enlarged and hung in Air Force bases, or used on websites, that sort of thing.

The previous photo (the one to be replaced) was of AF1 flying in front of Mt. Rushmore...and it's on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One

I don't think at this point anyone is arguing it was a good idea. There's a good chance that the head of the White House's Military Office will get fired. He admits it was his idea...and he's by no means a low-level staffer. He used to be Secretary of the Army, he's a bigwig...and should have known better.

I also find it doubtful that the President knew about this before hand: what with swine flu, two wars, budget battles, not to mention Bo the dog...I can't imagine anyone would have thought to mention this to him.


I don't know that Obama knew. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I would suspect that he did not know. I wonder, who does Caldera report to? Emanuel? I might suspect that whomever Caldera reports to might have also known. I think a secret mission to fly over NYC is uh, not a small thing. It's not the biggest item on the list of concerns, but it's not small potatoes, either. Especially when you are notifying the NYC emergency services and FAA etc. etc.

Oh, and the old photo looks perfectly fine! Timeless. No big need to update it!

[mommylamb]

I would be equally livid if this happened with Bush. If you are saying that if Bush did this (to clarify - if it happened in the Bush admin) and you would be OK, that's nuts. I think it's reasonable to be disappointed and disgusted with this event because it was reckless and wasteful and disrespecful, I would even call it emotionally abusive, to the people in NYC.

Now, I know you and I probably agree on nothing other than the fact that this was a bad thing to do. I don't think it was OK. I never said that. And, for the record, I'm not nuts. You sound a little bit angry with me. I said I think it was stupid and an awful thing to do. Someone messed up big time. I'm also saying if it happened under Bush, I'd like to think I wouldn't blame him for it personally. I would imagine that some communications person made a big mistake. Maybe akin to the "Mission Accomplished" banner which was also in poor taste but I doubt Bush was up there hanging it himself.

[purpleeyes]

This is how I feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225154&title=Mistakes-on-a-Plane

Seriously, watch it. Its awesome and hysterical and so so true.
I *heart* Jon Stewart so much.

[KBecks]

Now, I know you and I probably agree on nothing other than the fact that this was a bad thing to do. I don't think it was OK. I never said that. And, for the record, I'm not nuts. You sound a little bit angry with me. I said I think it was stupid and an awful thing to do. Someone messed up big time. I'm also saying if it happened under Bush, I'd like to think I wouldn't blame him for it personally. I would imagine that some communications person made a big mistake. Maybe akin to the "Mission Accomplished" banner which was also in poor taste but I doubt Bush was up there hanging it himself.

I think Bush signed off on the phrase "Mission Accomplished". I think the president does take responsibility for his image and the messages around him.

[citymama]

This is how I feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225154&title=Mistakes-on-a-Plane

Seriously, watch it. Its awesome and hysterical and so so true.
I *heart* Jon Stewart so much.

Ta-da! I think we have a winner. LOVE Jon Stewart! He provides me with my sanity check, in any administration.

[KBecks]

This is how I feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225154&title=Mistakes-on-a-Plane

Seriously, watch it. Its awesome and hysterical and so so true.
I *heart* Jon Stewart so much.

Thanks for sharing that.

[KrisM]

In in Detroit.

First, I think it was incredibily insensitive. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't figure out that it was just a bad, bad idea.

Second, the auto execs got chided for flying in private jets to DC to do actual business because of how much it costs and the auto industry is hurting, but $328,000 was okay for a photo op for a country with a huge debt?

[mommylamb]

I think Bush signed off on the phrase "Mission Accomplished". I think the president does take responsibility for his image and the messages around him.

You know, I really have no idea about if he signed off on it. But, I don't think anyone can realistically say this President doesn't take responsibility for things. I'm just gonna leave this one alone I think.

[clb]

This is how I feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225154&title=Mistakes-on-a-Plane


So funny! Thanks for sharing.

Especially loved the Biden reference. Bloomberg must be loving him. Today, Biden advised against riding subways (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/Swine-Flu-0428.html). Bloomberg is known for riding the subways to city hall and advocating mass transit.

[TwinFoxes]

I think a secret mission to fly over NYC is uh, not a small thing. It's not the biggest item on the list of concerns, but it's not small potatoes, either. Especially when you are notifying the NYC emergency services and FAA etc. etc.

Oh, and the old photo looks perfectly fine! Timeless. No big need to update it!

To clarify, I certainly wasn't implying this was a little thing to the people of NY. I think it was a bad idea all around.

The whole thing about the secrecy, pretty much anything involving AF1 is secret, because of security concerns. In general they wouldn't advertise that AF1 is flying around because it's a big target...I'm sure it was a secret when they took those Mt. Rushmore pictures. BUT obviously doing it over NYC is a lot different than doing it over Mt. Rushmore!

Did anyone see the episode of 30 Rock where they planned a salute to fireworks in Midtown Manhattan without telling anyone? Slowly the lightbulb is turned on that hey, people might freak out. That's what this reminds me of.