OT - Passport needed for trip to Canada?

[Clarity]

IIRC we now need a passport to visit Canada. My dh has a conference in Toronto the end of May and I'd like to take the kids and go with him. The problem is that it's 5/6 and the girls and I don't have passports! Yikes. Any way to get one before then? And...does my 7 month old need a passport too?

[ededic]

I am pretty sure you all need passports, or the new passport cards that they have now for traveling to Canada and Mexico. If you pay for expedite, you can get it by the end of May. Your best bet is to go to http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html for more information.

[schums]

If you are flying, you all need passports. Driving, you still only need birth certificates for everyone and photo id for the adults. Here's a link to the State Department: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1082.html

[egoldber]

If you live in a city with a passport office, you can walk in and get one.

[infomama]

Just learned about these...passport cards. You can get them at Costco and are fine for re entry into the US from Canada http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200905/?pg=60

[Clarity]

If you live in a city with a passport office, you can walk in and get one.

Hmm..I don't think I do. It's my understanding that I need to go to the post office to get passport paperwork. Someone also suggested getting my photo done at Walgreens. It all sounds like quite a p.i.t.a if I may say so myself!

[Clarity]

If you are flying, you all need passports. Driving, you still only need birth certificates for everyone and photo id for the adults. Here's a link to the State Department: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1082.html

Oh! Great to know, we're driving! Yay!!! Thanks so much, I'm going to work on getting passports so we have them but there's not so much rush if I just need a birth certificate. Of course, I haven't gotten my 7month old's birth certificate yet so better move on that I guess! Thanks for this link.

[bubbaray]

My understanding is that as of June 1, 2009, ALL travellers (air, sea and land) will be required to present either valid passports or the enhanced DLs (IIRC, only for land crossings and on the the Western states). If you are going at the end of May, personally, I wouldn't risk that you might have a delayed return and not be able to get back in after June 1.

JMHO.

ETA: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/whti-ivho/menu-eng.html

The rules are US driven, even though the above website is for Canadians -- So, as of June 1, you'll need a passport or the special enhanced DL (which presumably your DDS couldn't get as they aren't old enough to drive) to cross the border even in a vehicle. BCs are no longer valid id after that date.

[schums]

I'm not entirely sure the Canadian site is accurate. This site (from US State Dept) http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html says that adults have to have a passport, passport card or other approved homeland security doc, and that kids only have to have a birth certificate, even AFTER June 1. The list of other approved docs, found here: http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/#0 still say birth cert and drivers license are OK for adults. If you have a passport, I'd take it, but I think DC should be OK with just a birth cert.

OP, you might want to call someone (not sure who, maybe the state dept?) and get the definitive ruling so you don't get stuck. If you do, please post back, as we go to Canada occasionally too!

[bubbaray]

There are ads in the papers here that you need a passport to travel via land after June 1.

If Canadian sites are offensive, here is a US one that says after June 1, you need a passport:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

On June 1, 2009, the U.S. government will implement the full requirements of the land and sea phase of WHTI. The proposed rules require most U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry to have a passport, passport card, or other travel document approved by the Department of Homeland Security (http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/#0).



CHILDREN: U.S. citizen children under the age of 16 will be able to present the original or copy of their birth certificate, or other proof of U.S. citizenship such as a naturalization certificate or citizenship card.
Personally, I'd get the children passports. Its easier than worrying about whether or not your travel documents are acceptable.

[bubbaray]

Also, if the children have passports, there won't be a problem getting INTO Canada. I'm not sure what the rules are for US children coming into Canada, but they might not like just the BCs.

[daniele_ut]

Just learned about these...passport cards. You can get them at Costco and are fine for re entry into the US from Canada http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200905/?pg=60

The passport cards are only good for land or sea travel, but not for air travel.

[MontrealMum]

The Canadian requirement that Melissa mentions - which, as she said, is being pushed by the US, not the other way around - has had its deadline extended and extended. But it's been on the news, in print publications and on government websites for a good two years now It is very common knowledge up here. This June 1 deadline for everyone to have passports via land or air - adult or child - is the ultimate, no extension-happening-deadline on this side of the border. I'd hate to get stuck on one side or the other w/o passports.

As per the blanket (to resident) mailer we received just last week from the Quebec government announcing the new "smart" Quebec driver's license, "Le gouvernement americain exigera, a compter du 1er Juin 2009, que toutes les personnes qui desirent entrer aux Etats-Unis par voie terrestre ou maritime presentent a la frontiere un document approuve indiquant leur identite et leur citoyennete."

Translation...basically what was said in English above. To get into the US from Canada everyone needs proof of identity and citizenship if travelling via land or water by June 1, 2009. If you have one of this newer licenses that has proof of citizenship, fine. But I doubt they're giving them out to kids. And I don't know how Canada is interpreting this for US citizens entering Canada - as they aren't providing services to other nationals on their website.

According to the US side (State dept website) either a passport or passport card is acceptable. There is a 4-6 week processing time on the passport card. http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html ...so I doubt that's going to save you much time. You used to be able to pay big bucks to get a rush passport, no idea if you can do that w/ the passport card or not. It also says that kids under 16 can travel w/ original birth certificates - but I have to say, I'd not want that responsibility.

If it were me, this whole June 1 thing is going to be a huge clusterf*&k, and I would not want to be travelling w/ original birth certificates...I'd just get a passport for everyone. Doesn't look like there's much of a price or wait-time difference betw. the passport and the passport card.

[larig]

We can't get the cards at costco in WA state, that I know of. Here we'd have to go wherever they accept passport applications. The cards, as I think someone already said can't be expedited.

My parents got their passports issued very quickly for a last minute trip they took 15 years ago. I'm sure things are different now, but back then they drove their paperwork 3 hours to Chicago to hand things over in person, so there was no lag-time in the mail. I remember being so impressed that they got them so quickly. I think the higher up the passport food chain you can go with your initial application the faster the turn around time, so if you live in a big city or near one that can cut some time off. Otherwise, you go to the post office, library or other designated place where they will take your paperwork, verify that it's you in the picture and make sure your address is legit and then THEY will mail the stuff along to the people who process this stuff. My parents went straight to the place the applications were being processed and avoided waiting on the routing.

There is one other alternative I thought I'd throw out there...in washington state some drivers license facilities issue what they call "enhanced driver licenses (http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/edlfaq.html)" for the state. They work for border crossings into US by land or sea. I would imagine most states have something like this, especially states with an international border. You can get non-drivers' versions of the cards too in Washington, which would be perfect for the kids. It says it you get the cards 2-3 weeks after they approve the application (I'm not sure if they approve on the spot, or if they are processed somewhere else?). The fees are really much cheaper than passports $15 to upgrade a WA state drivers' license and $35 to issue an enhanced id card. So you could do the whole family for not too much money.

ETA: the place my parents went was a passport agency. There are several regional ones (lots in the NE). (http://www.travel.state.gov/passport/passport_4312.html) Apparently you can make appointments. (http://www.travel.state.gov/passport/fri/schedule/schedule_852.html) This option will work, it looks like, for someone who needed passports in 14 days.

[mikeys_mom]

I'm not sure what the rules are for US children coming into Canada, but they might not like just the BCs.

I don't have time to look up the official rules on this, but I know that a friend of mine living in the US who is a Cdn and her DH is US citizen. Their kids were all born in the US and they drive to Cda fairly often. The kids have always just travelled on their US birth certificates.

However, I agree with Melissa that I would not risk travelling without a passport so close to the June 1st deadline. There are huge billboards and full page newspaper ads up here publicizing the new rules.

We drive to the US often and I would not want to get stuck with a border agent on either side that is having a bad day and decides to make your life difficult because they don't like the documentation you are providing.

Enjoy your trip! I'm in the GTA, let me know if you have any questions about places to visit in Toronto.

[bubbaray]

FYI, the BC (closest Canadian province to WA state) enhanced DL/ID card is only for children OVER 12. I HIGHLY doubt that Canadian border guards will accept a WA enhanced ID card for a child under 12 if the Canadian version isn't acceptable. IME, international travel document requirements are virtually always reciprocal.

BC EID FAQs: http://www.icbc.com/licensing/eic_faq.asp#q7 Only children over age 12 can get them.

[egoldber]

Per the State Department website:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html


On June 1, 2009, the U.S. government will implement the full requirements of the land and sea phase of WHTI. The proposed rules require most U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry to have a passport, passport card, or other travel document approved by the Department of Homeland Security.

* CHILDREN: U.S. citizen children under the age of 16 will be able to present the original or copy of their birth certificate, or other proof of U.S. citizenship such as a naturalization certificate or citizenship card.

Groups of U.S. citizen children ages 16 through 18, when traveling with a school or religious group, social organization, or sports team, will be able to enter under adult supervision with originals or copies of their birth certificates or other proof of citizenship. See the Department of Homeland Security's GetYouHome.gov for more information on the changing travel requirements.

[bubbaray]

The point the Canadians are making here is that the US website is only for entry into the US. If the OP is travelling to Canada, she also has to comply with the requirements for entry into Canada. I highly doubt that a Canadian border agent will allow US children into Canada with only a BC if the US won't allow Canadian children into the US with only a BC. The rules are reciprocal -- and are enforced with reciprocity, even if the language of the law is vague.

As a PP said, you do not want to reach a border and get an agent having a bad day/attitude. BTDT and it is not fun.

[larig]

Oh, yes, Bubbaray is absolutely right about the age for enhanced id cards, so scratch that idea. WA state only issues regular id cards for teens. Glad you caught that, because I just got the photo and paperwork filled out for DS's passport, but haven't filed it yet, we've just been lazy about making the trip to the office. thinking about this thread I almost suggested to DH we go try to get enhanced ids, you saved us a PITA and looking silly at the drivers' license facility.

[egoldber]

I can't find any info on the Canadian website that requires more strict documentation for Canadian entry than what the US requires for US entry. I also don't see anything about the new rules after June 1?

[MontrealMum]

The point the Canadians are making here is that the US website is only for entry into the US. If the OP is travelling to Canada, she also has to comply with the requirements for entry into Canada. I highly doubt that a Canadian border agent will allow US children into Canada with only a BC if the US won't allow Canadian children into the US with only a BC. The rules are reciprocal -- and are enforced with reciprocity, even if the language of the law is vague.

As a PP said, you do not want to reach a border and get an agent having a bad day/attitude. BTDT and it is not fun.

:yeahthat:

Border guards and agents are generally not the most enlightened or fun people. They can make life very unpleasant for people in the no-man-zone of the border.

[bubbaray]

I can't find any info on the Canadian website that requires more strict documentation for Canadian entry than what the US requires for US entry. I also don't see anything about the new rules after June 1?


http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/whti-ivho/child-enfant-eng.html

All travellers regardless of age need passports for air travel. It says further down the page that for children 15 & under, they can use a BC. BUT, IME, crossing the US/Canadian border at least monthly, sometimes weekly, I would NOT use a BC. The border agents, particularly the US border agents, are not pleasant to deal with, especially if you present something that they don't like (even if the rules say its OK).

[egoldber]

But that site is for Canadian citizens.

Look, I'm not disputing the occasional irrationality of border patrol agents. I'm just saying that per the LAW, a passport is not REQUIRED for the OP's children to travel by land to Canada. She can make a decision from there.

[bubbaray]

And my/our point is that the OP needs not only to get back into the US, but to get into Canada on the first leg of her trip. IME experience, the Canadian border guards are going to enforce this with reciprocity. This means that b/c the US is NOT allowing non-US citizen children to cross the border on just a BC after June 1, you can bet that the Canadian border guards aren't gonna allow US children to cross on just a BC either.

These new rules are crazy and won't keep out the bad guys. They are making life difficult only for the honest people.

[MontrealMum]

As per the blanket (to resident) mailer we received just last week from the Quebec government announcing the new "smart" Quebec driver's license, "Le gouvernement americain exigera, a compter du 1er Juin 2009, que toutes les personnes qui desirent entrer aux Etats-Unis par voie terrestre ou maritime presentent a la frontiere un document approuve indiquant leur identite et leur citoyennete."

quoting myself here. Even if you can't read French, I imagine it's clear that the date in the above quotation provided by the Quebec governement in their blanket mailer to all households in the province of Quebec AFTER major ads have been taken out in all the major newspapers across the country for the past 2 years that the date reads June 1st, 2009.

The last time there was a deadline (I believe it was summer of 2007), which was rescinded at the last minute because the passport agencies were completely overwhelmed, it was supposed to revert to birth certificates. They were not accepted by the border guards on the ground for MANY people even though they were supposed to be. All over the news. Then the air-travel passport thing was phased in, but BC were still acceptable for a time. Still not accepted for many people. Again, all over the news. The border guard has the ultimate say - whether they're following the regulations or not. For my peace of mind I'd want either a passport or passport card for all travellers in my party.

It's not always right that border guards might have a chip on their shoulder, but if someone asks my advice, as a friend, I'm going to tell them what I think will be best for them. Easiest and less hassle. Just because something is the law doesn't mean it will be followed.

[bubbaray]

The border guard has the ultimate say - whether they're following the regulations or not. For my peace of mind I'd want either a passport or passport card for all travellers in my party.
:yeahthat:

Heck, decades before all this, my prof in 1st year law school told us to never, ever joke or pi$$ off a border agent. They have the widest powers of any police-type agency. Just smile, hand them your passport and get as far away from the border as possible. Borders, even along the longest undefended border in the world, are not nice places to be.

[MontrealMum]

:yeahthat:

Heck, decades before all this, my prof in 1st year law school told us to never, ever joke or pi$$ off a border agent. They have the widest powers of any police-type agency. Just smile, hand them your passport and get as far away from the border as possible. Borders, even along the longest undefended border in the world, are not nice places to be.

Oh yes. They can confiscate your car...tear it apart then send you on your way with everything scattered on the ground, and ban you from entry w/o hope of repeal for "infractions". I hate crossing the border...makes my heart beat faster every time.

[3blackcats]

OT - I'm so screwed this summer. I'm Canadian living in the US, my husband and newborn are Americans. DH has a passport but obviously my 5 week DD does not. Now figuring out how to get a passport for a newborn. sigh

OT again - i can't believe how many people don't have passports. I've had one since I was 5 - that's 25 years of having a passport.

Also, border agents suck. I've been in US Customs for over 2 hours because no one knew their password to get to the computer to fill out the paperwork that they needed to fill out for me.

My advice - pay what it takes to get passports for everyone. They are good for 10 years.

[egoldber]

They are good for 10 years

Just FYI, passports for children are only good for 5 years.

[Clarity]

I appreciate all of the replies - we'll either go with passports or we won't go at all. Because this is a business trip, I wouldn't want to be the reason dh is held up - he's actually presenting at the conference so it would be bad form to miss b/c we couldn't get through the border!
The downside is that I still don't have dd2's birth certificate (ack!) so I've got to squeeze that in too. Perhaps I'll take them for pictures tonight and at least get that done.
Thanks again!