? Daycare hygiene practices- please advice

[daisyd]

So DC started daycare last week. The teachers seem nice enough, its close to home and reasonably priced by the city standards.He's settling in better than I expected but the cleanliness issue has been bothering me. I'm not germ-phobic and home is definitely not super clean but this seems a little excessive. Specifically

- Parents walk in with shoes on, though it has a "no-shoe" policy in the infant room. The director leaves her shoes within the room near the kids' cubbies. I noticed the latter and tried to overlook it but the former is too much for me.
- Binkies, bottles and sippy cups that the babies are using are placed on the carpet in the midst of feeds. They get knocked over and trod on by other babies/ teachers and then go straight back into the baby's mouth.
_ They provide burp cloths and bibs. I gave him a bottle while I was there on the first day and asked for a burp cloth. I was given one that was rather dirty and stained. I'm not 100% sure that it was not picked up from a stack of stuff that needed laundering. So I brought in my own the next day, but it had not been used.

I haven't said anything about this thinking it might be a one off thing. I also wanted to ask this question here because I don't know how to bring this up without giving offense. Do you think I'm expecting way too much?
Would any of this bother you?How do I bring this up at daycare? Please advise.I want to be able to provide possible solutions to the problem rather than just state these as issues.

Thanks for reading.

[doberbrat]

yes I'd be bothered by it. bothered enough to find a different place.


If thats how they operate in front of you, I'd have to wonder what they do behind closed doors. And the fact that the DIRECTOR wears her shoes in the infant room clearly says to staff it doesnt matter.

in our center if staff is caught wearing shoes or barefoot in the infant room they are reprimanded. 2nd time they go through retraining. 3rd time they're out

I have lots of complaints about my dc but hygine isnt one of them. and why is it important? b/c dc are breeding grounds for germs and communicatable diseases. yes, they may be minor but to you really want to be home with a sick kid ALL THE TIME? calling out sick from work, being up with a sick kid? doing sick kid laundry?

NOTHING spreads at our dc. I mean kids get colds etc but you dont have entire rooms being cleared out by pink eye, rotovirus, cp etc like at my friend's dc place.

IMO Good care STARTS with good hygine and basic sanitary practices.

[trales]

If you are questioning their standards it is not the place for you. Your child is going to be at this place 40 hours per week, for many years. You need to find the right fit for you. Don't feel bad about being picky or having standards. Go with your gut find a new place.

[tnrnchick74]

I'm SO lucky - my DCP is a small at home daycare, so that does make a difference. She cleans all toys daily with bleach water. She requests a blanket and "lovie" for naptime that stays there - and is washed daily.

Hands are washed: when they arrive, after playtime, before meals, after meals, before nap, after being outside, and before going home as parent is picking them up. We have to provide diapers and wipes, and she goes through more wipes than I could ever imagine as she usually uses wipes to wash hands & wipe faces (like I do at home).

She will refuse to take a child for the day with obvious signs of illness and calls for kids to be picked up ASAP if a fever (that isn't obviously from teething or due to just having received shots) starts. Is it a pain when you know your kid's allergies are causing the green stuff running out his nose? Sure. But the fact that in 10 months there DS has had 2 colds and 2 ear infections EVER, then I'm not going to complain too much!

One other thing I love is that if DS has a "blowout", as he is occassionally prone to do...there isn't just "wiping" up. He gets a full bath. And she tries her absolute best to make sure she's using ONLY approved products on him because of his sensitive skin & eczema.

Is she perfect? No, far from. We have differences in opinion. She can be kind of flighty sometimes. But she loves my son and goes out of her way to keep him clean (not necessarily clothing, but clean in terms of hygeine - boys will be boys!), healthy, and safe.

[daisyd]

yes I'd be bothered by it. bothered enough to find a different place.


If thats how they operate in front of you, I'd have to wonder what they do behind closed doors. And the fact that the DIRECTOR wears her shoes in the infant room clearly says to staff it doesnt matter.



Exactly this - if this what happens in the 30 minutes I'm there, I'm afraid to think what happens when no one is around. I am thinking of finding another place but I don't want to put DC through yet another adjustment phase (but then again he's been here only 2 days). This daycare is convenient in terms of location and I'm hoping they will make a few changes.

[daisyd]

If you are questioning their standards it is not the place for you. Your child is going to be at this place 40 hours per week, for many years. You need to find the right fit for you. Don't feel bad about being picky or having standards. Go with your gut find a new place.

I was wondering if all places are like this one. Every place I screened had a no-shoe policy and room- cleaned everyday policy.
What if I changed day cares and ran into the same/similar problem? That's DH's question.

How about my instance 2- about the bottles and sippies. Does this happen at your daycare? If not, how do they prevent it?

[daisyd]

I'm SO lucky - my DCP is a small at home daycare, so that does make a difference. She cleans all toys daily with bleach water. She requests a blanket and "lovie" for naptime that stays there - and is washed daily.

Hands are washed: when they arrive, after playtime, before meals, after meals, before nap, after being outside, and before going home as parent is picking them up. We have to provide diapers and wipes, and she goes through more wipes than I could ever imagine as she usually uses wipes to wash hands & wipe faces (like I do at home).

Is she perfect? No, far from. We have differences in opinion. She can be kind of flighty sometimes. But she loves my son and goes out of her way to keep him clean (not necessarily clothing, but clean in terms of hygeine - boys will be boys!), healthy, and safe.

You certainly are lucky. I thought I was doing the right thing when I picked this one. Its the YMCA and they had a pretty good hygiene routine at least on paper.:(

[doberbrat]

I was wondering if all places are like this one. Every place I screened had a no-shoe policy and room- cleaned everyday policy.
What if I changed day cares and ran into the same/similar problem? That's DH's question.

How about my instance 2- about the bottles and sippies. Does this happen at your daycare? If not, how do they prevent it?

I dont think its going to get better if the director was seen doing it. and after 2 days, I'm guessing dc wont really have formed much attachment yet.

this would NOT happen at our dc. first off, they dont feed kids on the floor. babies are held or fed in highchairs. so bottles woudlnt be on the floor. I've never ever seen a paci on the floor eitehr. and if they did get thrown on the floor, they're washed.

they also dont supply bibs/burp cloths so they dont do laundry you byo. they do have extras in case of emergency but they're cleaned. they'd NEVER share between kids.

[randomkid]

I was wondering if all places are like this one. Every place I screened had a no-shoe policy and room- cleaned everyday policy.
What if I changed day cares and ran into the same/similar problem? That's DH's question.

How about my instance 2- about the bottles and sippies. Does this happen at your daycare? If not, how do they prevent it?

You have to visit a place a few times and ask to observe in the room your DC will be in. When DD was an infant, a brand new daycare opened right across the street from the hospital where I work. The hours are tailored to healthcare staff and they have a very flexible part time schedule. They also provide 3 meals a day. I paid the registration fee and was ready to put DD there, but asked to observe a room. The first time was ok. Then, when I went back to work, my parents offered to keep DD for the first 2 months. I asked to go meet the staff and observe again. I ended up finding an in-home daycare and did the same thing. I kept going back to change her start date and every time, I asked to observe. The more I was there, the more I realized I would never put DD there. I would say I went 4 times. The deal breaker for me was the fact that the small refrigerators were down on the floor. One day that I was there, a child opened the refrigerator, got out a bottle and started drinking it. I asked the DCP if that was that child's bottle and she said "Oh...No, they do that ALL the time". She did nothing about it. That same day, a little boy with green snot running down his face kept climbing all over this little girl who was just crying away because of it. The teacher kept talking to me and the aide was cleaning windows! No way, no how! I had a friend whose DD was there and she was always telling me stories about the place. I finally convinced her that all DCs are not that way and this past year she moved her. She is amazed at the difference.

It really doesn't take that long to see how things are. Just look at some places, ask to go to the infant room and speak to the teacher. Think of some questions to ask and observe while you talk. You probably only need to go a couple of times to get a good feel. Also, as a PP mentioned, we used in-home daycare until DD was 3 1/2. She was rarely sick and both of the DCPs we had were very clean. There would be a baby there with diarrhea, DCP would calll parents to pick up child and wouldn't allow back until diarrhea was cleared up. Even though DD would be there the same day as the sick baby, she never got it.

To answer your bottle/sippy question: all the places we have been to have been like this - babies are held to get bottles, in high chairs with sippies and cups/bottles are kept separate. It is inevitable that one child will get a hold of another's cup, but the DCP should be alert and take it away immediately, then wash it before giving it back to it's rightful owner. Cups and bottles should not be on the floor. I have NEVER seen a cup or bottle on the floor in any of the 3 settings we have been in.

Good luck!

[daisymommy]

And just an FYI...I am a former daycare director of a large center in Virginia, and at least in our state, those offenses were LICENSING VIOLATIONS! Not only could we be formerly written up for it (and it was kept on our state file), but at a 2nd offense we would be fined. After too many things, we could have our license revoked.

The state code was that after a child had finished using their item, the teacher must place it back in their cubby or on the labeled "cup shelf". But if it was down where another child could reach it and get their mouth on it, or if it was--heaven forbid--on the floor, BIG no-no.

The same goes for shoes worn in the infant room, or a cloth being used by more than 1 child (must go into hamper immediately after use, or be placed in child's crib or cubby).

Personally, I would ask to see a copy of the state licensing codes and compliance for that center. You have the right to see their compliance statements, which are the forms showing what they have been written up for after each audit!

[randomkid]

Personally, I would ask to see a copy of the state licensing codes and compliance for that center. You have the right to see their compliance statements, which are the forms showing what they have been written up for after each audit!

You can probably find it online. I know you can for our state.

[MontrealMum]

A lot of what you've mentioned: shoes, feeding on the floor, things on floor etc. are licensing violations up here too. That sort of thing never happens in our daycare. Granted, because of the long waiting lists here the youngest child is usually around 10 mos., but all children are fed on the wall (very innovative highchair system bolted to the wall!), in a highchair, or at a table. Floors are cleaned immediately. Sippies aren't allowed if it isn't feeding time. Each child has their own sippy and binkies from home and things are sanitized nightly. All bedding and bibs are washed by the daycare - crib sheets are changed once a week, and bibs are newly clean each time. I could go on and on.

In the winter and rainy season there are rubber overshoes for parents to put on for walking in the daycare so we don't have to take our shoes off. The rest of the time you can wear your shoes in the hall and on the stairs, but must take them off in the infant rooms. Teachers/aides have two pairs of shoes: indoors and outdoors. There are all sorts of complicated policies about illnesses. Lots of rules about hats, sunscreens, personal products that must be provided for children, and "emergency" outfits. When DS started last year we had to go to new parent orientation where all this was explained and we were given a very thick handout with policies and explanations.

I would expect that these sorts of things would be mandated by your state too?

At least up here, not all daycares are as you describe. At least if they're government-run, and licensed. I would look further :(

[daisyd]

this would NOT happen at our dc. first off, they dont feed kids on the floor. babies are held or fed in highchairs. so bottles woudlnt be on the floor. I've never ever seen a paci on the floor eitehr. and if they did get thrown on the floor, they're washed.



Wow! I'm surprised by the consensus amongst the PPs on this.


I dont think its going to get better if the director was seen doing it.
I think so too. I just got back from spending an hour and a half there with DC and the teachers took the babies out for a walk and returned to work in the same footwear. And I was thinking its just parents who were violating this rule and it just needed some strict enforcement.......

This sucks. big. time.

[Corie]

If you are questioning their standards it is not the place for you. Your child is going to be at this place 40 hours per week, for many years. You need to find the right fit for you. Don't feel bad about being picky or having standards. Go with your gut find a new place.


Yes, I completely agree!!

You need to be comfortable with your child's daycare. It doesn't sound
like you are.

FWIW, these things would bother me too.

[bubbaray]

I must be missing something here.

My girls are in FT daycare 5d/w. They have been since they were 12m. So, they weren't there as babies but you KWIM. Neither have used bottles or taken formula, but they've both used sippies at daycare (and DD#2 still does). I know for a fact that both girls have walked around with sippies of water while playing. Why would that be a problem?

FTR, their sippies at home are on the floor all.the.time. As long as they are filled with water and not milk, I don't really care. If the resulting puddle of water is large enough, the dog will get it. :hysterical:

We toured the new daycare that my girls are going as of July last night. Its an extremely well respected facility. We walked around with our shoes on, as did the children who were still there. What would they wear if they didn't wear shoes? I'm confused on this. My girls don't wear indoor shoes at their current daycare, but only because its a licensed in-home daycare -- and we don't wear shoes in our home either. But, in a facility with daily cleaning, I'm not understanding the footwear issue. And, this facility has a shelf where all the kids lunches are stored for the day and they can go open them whenever they want.

I know for a fact that wearing footwear is NOT a licensing issue here, unless the children are going outside in inclement weather with inappropriate footwear. I don't believe that there are any licensing rules regarding sippies on the floor or elsewhere other than in the highchair.

ITA that if you aren't comfortable with the daycare, change now. BUT, I'm not following why sippies and footwear are a problem.

[daisymommy]

Why? I'll try to include all the reasons I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm sure I'll forget something :)

Why no shoes?
Because babies/toddlers especially crawl around on the floor, then put their hands in their mouth, or toys off the floor in their mouth. Floors have been tested in homes, daycares, businesses, etc. and found to have dangerous pesticides, chemicals, and of course bacteria on them that have been tracked in from off of people's shoes.
But test the same types of places when people only wear clean socks/indoor slippers and the majority of those "nasties" are either eliminated or levels are way down.
Considering that it's a place where you send your child to be well cared for, and pay them money to do so, you certainly want it to be a healthy environment. And this is also a HUGE way to avoid the spread of hand-foot-and mouth disease.
FWIW we are have a no-shoe policy in our home as well.

Why no walking around with cups?
Because unlike being at home with kids in your own family, who at any given time usually share the same bacteria in their immune system, and therefor do not get each other sick if they drink off their family member's cup--when kids are in daycare, everyone's body and immune system, germs, etc. are totally different, and very easily get each other sick.

Children take a drink, toss down their cup, another child picks it up and drinks off of it, and 24-48 hrs. later they're both sick. Then not only are the kids miserable, but now the parent's have to take time off work because little Johnny can't come back to daycare. Better to keep all cups and pacifiers up where they cannot be shared between children.

Hope that explained things a little :)

[daisyd]

You have to visit a place a few times and ask to observe in the room your DC will be in.

It really doesn't take that long to see how things are. Just look at some places, ask to go to the infant room and speak to the teacher. Think of some questions to ask and observe while you talk. You probably only need to go a couple of times to get a good feel. Also, as a PP mentioned, we used in-home daycare until DD was 3 1/2. She was rarely sick and both of the DCPs we had were very clean. There would be a baby there with diarrhea, DCP would calll parents to pick up child and wouldn't allow back until diarrhea was cleared up. Even though DD would be there the same day as the sick baby, she never got it.

To answer your bottle/sippy question: all the places we have been to have been like this - babies are held to get bottles, in high chairs with sippies and cups/bottles are kept separate. It is inevitable that one child will get a hold of another's cup, but the DCP should be alert and take it away immediately, then wash it before giving it back to it's rightful owner. Cups and bottles should not be on the floor. I have NEVER seen a cup or bottle on the floor in any of the 3 settings we have been in.

Good luck!

Thanks for writing a detailed response Kim. Its been helpful.

[daisyd]

And just an FYI...I am a former daycare director of a large center in Virginia, and at least in our state, those offenses were LICENSING VIOLATIONS! Not only could we be formerly written up for it (and it was kept on our state file), but at a 2nd offense we would be fined. After too many things, we could have our license revoked.

The state code was that after a child had finished using their item, the teacher must place it back in their cubby or on the labeled "cup shelf". But if it was down where another child could reach it and get their mouth on it, or if it was--heaven forbid--on the floor, BIG no-no.

The same goes for shoes worn in the infant room, or a cloth being used by more than 1 child (must go into hamper immediately after use, or be placed in child's crib or cubby).

Personally, I would ask to see a copy of the state licensing codes and compliance for that center. You have the right to see their compliance statements, which are the forms showing what they have been written up for after each audit!

Amy, thanks for the input. I didnt realize this was so serious.

[daisyd]

A lot of what you've mentioned: shoes, feeding on the floor, things on floor etc. are licensing violations up here too. That sort of thing never happens in our daycare. Granted, because of the long waiting lists here the youngest child is usually around 10 mos., but all children are fed on the wall (very innovative highchair system bolted to the wall!), in a highchair, or at a table. Floors are cleaned immediately. Sippies aren't allowed if it isn't feeding time. Each child has their own sippy and binkies from home and things are sanitized nightly. All bedding and bibs are washed by the daycare - crib sheets are changed once a week, and bibs are newly clean each time. I could go on and on.

In the winter and rainy season there are rubber overshoes for parents to put on for walking in the daycare so we don't have to take our shoes off. The rest of the time you can wear your shoes in the hall and on the stairs, but must take them off in the infant rooms. Teachers/aides have two pairs of shoes: indoors and outdoors. There are all sorts of complicated policies about illnesses. Lots of rules about hats, sunscreens, personal products that must be provided for children, and "emergency" outfits. When DS started last year we had to go to new parent orientation where all this was explained and we were given a very thick handout with policies and explanations.

I would expect that these sorts of things would be mandated by your state too?

At least up here, not all daycares are as you describe. At least if they're government-run, and licensed. I would look further :(

This daycare does have the highchair system you described except that they don't always use it.

When we toured with the director she told us about the no shoe policy and offered us over-shoes. We opted to go in with our socks and she herself kicked off her shoes *outside* the infant room.

Clearly, what was done on the tour is not regular practice. I feel that was deceiptful. She's held senior positions previously at very reputed daycare chains. I don't know why its different here...

[daisyd]

Yes, I completely agree!!

You need to be comfortable with your child's daycare. It doesn't sound
like you are.

FWIW, these things would bother me too.

I'm pretty upset about the violations. I'm not sure its going to e easy to find another one at short notice though -I return to work next month. But I've started looking.