So hard to do; IVF and one frozen embryo left/I finally replied in #39 : )

[SammyeGail]

We did InVitro and have our twin boys born 11/05. At the end of the cycle they had one very healthy embryo they froze, its just what they do with them for when you what more children.

I had always thought we would try with it anyway, the chances with one is slim, about 20%, but I would rather it be in my body and not implant than 'disposed' of, kwim? I had always thought of it being my little girl, lol.

After realizing Jonas had autism, right before their 2nd birthday, well, that changed everything. DH didn't want to pay the storage fee the next March, we now had a special needs child, I wasn't doing well (hey, my son had autism and medical resources in my city just didn't exist), we fought alot, I eventually secretly paid it on my CC, of course he found out but did understand.

This year had rolled around again. I'm 36 and DH will be 46 in August. I know at my age the chances are even lower, we don't have the 4+G that it would cost just for my comfort to do an embryo transfer or child care for the prep tests and procedure. I understand that and accept it, we have accumulated alot of debt from Jonas' treatment over the past 2 years, plus me going to therapy.

The way they dispose of frozen embryos is they let them thaw out, continue to try to divide, etc, and let them die. They are frozen in liquid nitrogen, I have even asked if they would just crush that up instead (I'm desperate) but thats not their 'procedure'.

I know this may sound silly to some of you, but this is so hard to do. I am just old fashioned, raised in the South, whatever you want to call it, but it tears my heart apart having to do this. After saving and trying one type of treatment, having to stop to work and work and work to save up as much as you can, do more and it failing (having a MIL with plenty of financial resources who won't help because she says 'insurance should pay for that' ARG!) stopping and saving every bit you can from work for 1.5 years to try again, paying over 1G in child support (not complaining, those were his kids, but hard when he didn't get to see them for 5 years, ex-wife crazy, but sent that check every month faithfully).

DH and I would have had kids as soon as possible after we were married, we brought the boys home from the hospital on our 9th wedding annivesary, it took that long. Plus the agony of wondering if you're ever going to have children, years of it.

I'm probably not making sense anymore because I'm crying, its just so hard the way they are going to dispose of the embryo, defrost it and let it die. That MY potential life, MY potential baby I'm having to sign a paper to authorize to do this to, I can't sign it and they need it by july 1st.

Yes, donating it would be the giving, compassionate thing to do. Part of me would hate the idea of someone else having and raising MY child, but part of me would rather have that than it be 'disposed' of. BUT that is not an option since it has a sibling with autism.

[mommylamb]

I don't really know what to say, other than I am sooo sorry. This sounds like an awful thing you're going through.

[cleo27]

(((Hugs))) I am so sorry you are going through this!

Cleo

[Corie]

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

[billysmommy]

I'm so sorry!!

[arivecchi]

Huge hugs to you. I have nothing useful to say, but I completely understand why you are so torn over this decision. I hope someone has helpful suggestions. :hug:

[stella]

I am so, so sorry.

[Carrots]

Many, many hugs. I just sent you a PM.

[wellyes]

I'm sorry. I don't think anyone would call your feelings silly. You're going through such a wrenching time. I think it is completely reasonable to grieve in this situation, not necessarily for the embryo but for having to officially sign a form that gives closure on your fertility attempts. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[infocrazy]

Huge hugs to you. I have nothing useful to say, but I completely understand why you are so torn over this decision. I hope someone has helpful suggestions. :hug:

:yeahthat: I am so sorry.

[HIU8]

:yeahthat: I had a similar experience. I'm still struggling with it. I can PM you if you want.

[JTsMom]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry you're going through this. I have no advice- just hoping you find some peace.

[kijip]

Yes, donating it would be the giving, compassionate thing to do. Part of me would hate the idea of someone else having and raising MY child, but part of me would rather have that than it be 'disposed' of. BUT that is not an option since it has a sibling with autism.

It seems really odd to me that given the mission of embyro adoption agencies that they would preclude any embryo? I am surprised you can't donate the embryo. (Though I can totally see why you personally would not be comfortable with donation)

Regardless, big :hug::hug::hug: to you as you work through this situation.

[Jacksmommy2b]

~BIG HUG~

I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through.

Is there any way you can donate the embryo to medical research? I know the loss and your feelings will (understandably) remain the same, but maybe someday you would find comfort in the fact the embryo served a purpose it it's passing.

Again, just a big hug to you. To you the loss of your embryo is just that, a loss. Don't apologize for mourning that loss just as you would any other.

[Ceepa]

I'm sorry that you are faced with such a painful situation of loss. All of you are in my prayers.

[nov04]

I'm so sorry this is so hard for you, wish there was some easy way to solve it.

[Momof3Labs]

I understand how hard this decision will be - we have a decision ahead of us that isn't too dissimilar. Have they given you the option of transferring it back at a time when it is certain you won't get pregnant? My clinic offers that. I'm guessing that could happen without drugs, but I'm not sure what the cost would be. Probably still more than you can justify.

[thomma]

After 5 ivfs, we had twins and 2 frozen embryos. I've been where you are and I'm so sorry...it's really hard. We went back and forth with what to do. After a high risk pregnancy that resulted in preemies and an 8 week nicu stay, I was petrified of having twins again. Also after 13 medicated cycles in the 4 years we tried to have kids, I dreaded everything about that world. I had a harder time with this than I did the whole time we were trying to have kids...and through the whole thing I had flashbacks to all of the crap we had to endure during our struggle.

Our RE had a list of suggestions, including being able to bring our embryos home with us to bury if we chose to...have you met and discussed this with your doctor?

We ended up going through with an FET/thaw cycle only because our insurance covered it.

Again, I'm sorry that you're going through this. I wish you peace with whatever you decide to do.

Kim
ds&dd -6:)

[mamicka]

It doesn't sound silly at all. I would be just as emotional if I were in your shoes. I hope you are able to find peace whatever you choose.

:hug:

[brittone2]

You aren't being silly at all.

I hope you can find a decision that brings you some measure of comfort and peace. You are in my thoughts.

[Kitten007]

I am sorry for your very difficult decision. Prayers and love are being sent.

[Moneypenny]

I'm so sorry you're in this place. I have a friend who was allowed to bring her frozen embryo home. She and her DH buried it under a rose bush they planted (I think the rose was Fire and Ice, which they thought was fitting).

[MamaMolly]

I'm PMing you :)

[janeybwild]

I am so very very very sorry for this pain :hug:

[MontrealMum]

Big hugs :grouphug:

[gatorsmom]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. If I were in your place, I'd be heartbroken too. :hug:

[bubbaray]

I'm sorry you are going through this, you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Can you donate the embies to science? Does your clinic have a list of options?? I know many people who have faced this decision and they have all come to different decisions in the end.

Whatever your decision, I wish you peace.

[TwinFoxes]

I don't have much advice, accept to suggest that maybe your clergyperson has counseled people in similar situations and may be able to help you. My heart goes out to you.

[MNmomtobe]

I am so sorry. What a difficult decision to make. Does your DH have any thoughts on this? Is there a counselor or psychiatrist at your clinic that can help advise you?
I wish you peace in whatever you and DH decide.

[TahliasMom]

hugs and more hugs. may you find peace...

[poppy]

I'm very sorry. That is a very difficult situation. You are not alone.
My cousin is going back and forth on that very issue. You'll be in my prayers.

[strollerqueen]

If you really want to try for your girl, I think you should. If you don't, you will always regret it. Could you explain to MIL the direness of the situation? Could you make payments? Could you put it on your credit card? I just never give up. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[blisstwins]

We are also in this situation. Our clinic lets you defer payments and we have chosen to not to make a decision until everything feels resolved. If there is some chance you may use that embryo I would defer the decision. It is an awful and ironic situation to be in. I have also cried many times when I look at my children and then think of my embryos.

[VClute]

Please forgive me. I've not read the entire thread, but I will tell you that one of the best things I ever did for DS therapy-wise was have another child. DS is autistic, too, and raising him is HARD WORK. But he loves his younger sister and she has helped him learn how to socialize and speak more and learn sharing and taking turns. Just another thought to add to your considerable load...

Also, I can't imagine how difficult it is to lose a child. And I think you have the right to grieve for the loss of any child, born or not, even if you only have a vision of what that child might be. I am keeping you in my prayers.

[Neatfreak]

Stopping by to offer more hugs ...

[annasmom]

I am so sorry. I think you make perfect sense.

Huge hugs.

[sste]

I think you are a fork in the road. I would either create and implant multiple embryos, including the existing one, or I would figure out some peaceful way to put the single embryo to rest. I would not want to implant the one embryo on a 20% chance - - that is just an awful lot of expense and stress given your family situation and the slim odds of a baby coming from that implant.

I think the first question you need to figure out whether your dh and you want to have another child in addition to your twins and the special needs child issue. If the decision is to have another child, I would fully explore all of your financial options as pps mentioned and would go for a multi-embryo implant.

FWIW, it sounds to me that at heart your reasons for having another child aren't so much financial - - it sounds like your family is somewhat maxed out with the work of twins and special demands of an autistic child.

[missym]

I am so sorry for what you're going through. What a gut-wrenching decision. I hope you can find peace with whatever choice you make.

[SammyeGail]

I was so overcome emotionally yesterday at the compassion I recieved here, I never imagined it and will be forever grateful. I cannot put into words how much it has meant to me, it is something I feel so alone struggling thru, and all of your hugs and comments has meant the world to me, thank you so much to each and every one of you wonderful mammas :grouphug:!!

I couldn't even reply back yesterday, I cried so much, thank you so much at the PM's, I will reply individually, I bawled so much my migraine went from mild to terrible, LOL! It's OK, I need to cry about it, I needed to really cry that much about it, if that makes sense.

Part of me wishes that there had been no more embryos left to freeze. We had 4 doing wonderful at day 2, I quickly requested a day 3 transfer and we transferred 3 embryos. The last one hung in there and was frozen. As for trying: Facing reality of the fact that Jonas has autism and Noah probably has AD/HD we do have our hands full, we have no family nearby, (the first 9 months after they were born when we did live near family one sister visited twice, nice close family, ha-ha) we live in a small town and have no real friends here. Jo will start autism school 5 days a week in the fall, thats a 1.5 hour round trip in the AM and PM, for at least the next 3 years. Jonas' autism is going to be a huge part of the rest of our lives, (mainly the therapies right now!), and I understand we need to take care of our boys. We struggle so much to give them the time they need right now and have so much external stress on our lives. The clinic is a 3+ hour drive from us, the blood work, ultrasounds, transfer all is so expensive. A friend I met online did her's in 2004, needed meds (ins doesn't cover anything) to help boost her lining, etc, she spent almost 5G in all to get a negative. After getting to really cry, to be able to finally 'release', I know I can't go thru that emotionally, honestly I don't want another '2 week wait', to you IF'er, you know what I mean : ). Plus that 20% success rate was for women 35 and under, I'm not going to go look up what it is for for over 35. Even if we had the money/support to do a fresh cycle I cannot carry multiples again because I had a fast onset of pre-eclampsia and almost died with the boys. Looking into our life over the next 5 years, having another baby would just be so much. Our family is just me, DH, Noah and Jonas, thats it. I think of dragging a poor baby on that drive to Jonas' school twice a day and I feel terrible.

Donation: it would be a liability to the clinic to donate an embryo that has a sibling with autism. Jo's autism is linked genetically, he never had a reactions to any shots, he was always late hitting milestones, about 2 months behind his twin brother, he didn't walk till 17 months, but he was the first to smile!!

DH did call the clinic yesterday and she said she would check into releasing the embryo to us, its not one of their options but they may be facing this problem more and more now so are hopefully going to start considering it for other parents. She started on about liquid nitrogen tanks, DH said he was the health environmental safety manager at a chemical plant, also over quality assurance, he had 10 liquid nitrogen tanks in his office (ROFL!!) So if all goes well he can go pick it up, we talked last night and he has talked about preserving it in formaldehyde and burying it beneath where we have put his fathers ashes. Exactly what I wanted to do last year but they wouldn't budge on their 'disposal' options. DH said he has been supressing his emotions about this, but when I called him crying about it yesterday saying I just couldn't sign that paper, it really broke thru to him too. We had a good talk last night : ).

My description of the 'defrost and let it die' was what the woman at the clinic's office said exactly to me. Maybe they don't do that, DH has also worked at medical universities, dealt with disposal of 'medical waste' and he said they probably take the vile, toss it in the medical waste bin where it gets taken to be incinerated, not any more comforting, but its not slowly and carefully thawed like they would for a transfer so it wouldn't ever be at a point where it was 'viable' if that makes sense. So there's not that vision of your embryo, the size of the head of a pin, trying to continue to develop but can't because it needs to implant to be able to move on to the next stage.

MIL would never help financially, she doesn't 'get it'. She has never helped with the 10+G we have spent on Jonas since 10-07, she just thinks insurance should cover it. She's also just plain cheap. When we first started reading about autism DH said 'O. M. G. I finally know whats wrong with my mother, she has autism.' Specifically we think she has high functioning Asperger's. She has a double major, extremely intelligent, has balance and sensory issues, horrible social skills. She is not much deeper than small talk. DH has never seen her cry, she never did when my FIL died, she just acted like her normal self. The day after I said 'I'm embarrassed because I can't stop crying' and she mumbled she was embarrassed because she wasn't. She just doesn't/can't feel real emotions. DH has seen her experience anxiety and slight panic, but not true sadness or anything. When she visits yearly she never (ok, rarely, she looks at them like an exhibit at the zoo) interact with the boys, she comes for a week, sits in the recliner, reads a book and gets in my way. DH has an older sister who practically raised him and that is where he got his emotion support, and his Dad. His Dad had lots of brothers and sisters so he was always around them and his cousins. He says he has no memory of his mother hugging him, saying 'I love you', etc. She wasn't 'cold', just 'there', and constantly being tortured by her own mother who could be very mean and cruel, (DH's mom didn't have the best childhood herself). He can remember his mother locked in her bedroom for days at a time under distress from her mother, and just functioned thru life. As for DH's older sister, yes, she is very messed up emotionally, has severe health and mental problems, MIL totally supports her financially and has for the last 20 years. Now she is constantly being tortured by her daughter who lives in the past and tells her mother how horrible she was/is.

So as for Jonas' autism, we are 99% sure its hereditary. Lots of women have bad MIL's, lol, but I really need to focus on doing everything I can for him to make sure he doesn't end up like MINE!!

Again, thank you all so much, it helped me break thru and be able to really cry, to mourn the loss of not having anymore, to accept our lives as it is, I love my boys so much and would not change them for the world. I have a peace now that I didn't the other day. Now just as long as they release our embryo to us..... : )

[MMEand1]

{{{HUGS}}} Hope you are able to resolve this quickly and feel at peace with your decision. Sometimes making the hard decisions in life is what gives us the strength to move on and know that we are stronger than what we first thought...Keeping you and your family in our prayers and thoughts...

[BabyMine]

I am so touched by your strength. This is a tough thing to go thru yet you write so beautifully and eloquently about your feelings. It is ok to mourn. You are such a caring and loving mother that this is a normal response for such a tramatic choice. You are going to make the best choice but that doesn't mean that it is the easiest. :hug:

[arivecchi]

All I can say is that your beautiful e-mail has me in tears. It is so touching. You are one incredibly strong woman. You will be in my thoughts......

[Fairy]

Samantha, I have been reading this thread with interest and concern without posting, as I just have nothing of relevance to say that can help you. But I want you to know I'm just so affected by it. Your embryo, your advocacy, your amazing strength, and your ability to be rational and reasonable during a time of exhausting, painful emotion. As well as the support and words of caring and encouragement in this thread. I had a good cry, too. I'm thinking of you.

[kransden]

Samantha, I have been reading this thread with interest and concern without posting, as I just have nothing of relevance to say that can help you. But I want you to know I'm just so affected by it. Your embryo, your advocacy, your amazing strength, and your ability to be rational and reasonable during a time of exhausting, painful emotion. As well as the support and words of caring and encouragement in this thread. I had a good cry, too. I'm thinking of you.
I am not very good at expressing these types of emotions, and Fairy said just what I was thinking.