question about calling DSS

[hollybloom24]

We have a neighbor who we suspect is physically abusing her children. On an almost daily basis we hear the mother screaming horribly at her two young children, ages 4 and 2. She screams things like "You little b**ch!" and "You are so bad I wish I were dead!" I hear the F word coming from there house several times a week! My other neighbors and I are concerned - clearly there is mental abuse but we wonder if there is physical abuse too.

The husband seems to be at home during the day, and there is also a nanny. They both seem quiet and we never hear from them.

These poor kids are the most unhappy kids I have ever seen. They never smile or laugh and seem socially delayed, IMO. They have every toy imaginable and then some, and are always dressed in the most expensive clothes - the girl is typically dressed in Burberry clothing.

It is very obvious to me that the mother has psychological issues. She also yells at the husband outside the house, calling him "useless" among other obscene things. Both are pleasant when you see them on the street but neither interact with anyone in the neighborhood.

I hate to butt into people's personal lives, but I am very concerned about the children.

If we call DSS, will they check the situation out no matter what? We just want a report to be taken seriously, and I hope to G-d we are wrong about our suspicions. I just don't want to ignore it and then hear something has happened to one of the kids - I'd never forgive myself.

TIA.

[BabyMine]

Unfortunately, I have recently had to call our child abuse hotline on a daycare. If you call and the child is in immediate danger they will be out as soon as possible. If it isn't urgent they will be out in 24 hours. The problem with verbal abuse is that it leaves only emotional scare not physical. I would definatley call so they have a record. It might just scare the mother, although I doubt it, into stopping. Please call.

[shawnandangel]

I have no experience with DSS, but if you are concerned about their well-being, I would definately call.

First though, I think I would make a journal for about a week and document when you hear yelling, what is said, what time it was said ect. I would also have your concerned neighbors do the same thing. I think keeping this journal/log will not only help DSS, it will let them know how serious you believe the situation has become.

[AnnieW625]

Can you talk to the Dh first? I would just tell him your concerns. Maybe he might agree that a call to DSS will give his wife the swift kick in the pants she may need. Good luck.

[Tondi G]

Poor Babies! Make the call. Hopefully it will be enough for the mom to be made aware that her behavior is inappropriate! Maybe she'll change... maybe not. At least you didn't just sit back and listen to them be verbally abused and do nothing.

[mamicka]

I have no experience with DSS, but if you are concerned about their well-being, I would definately call.

First though, I think I would make a journal for about a week and document when you hear yelling, what is said, what time it was said ect. I would also have your concerned neighbors do the same thing. I think keeping this journal/log will not only help DSS, it will let them know how serious you believe the situation has become.

:yeahthat:

[trales]

I would call, it is anonymous. My experience with DSS, as a teacher has been very positive.

You are doing those children a favor by calling. Money does not necessarily bring happiness or good parenting.

[hollybloom24]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable talking to the husband. I'm also not sure I am brave enough to let him (and maybe the whole family) know I am considering calling DSS. The wife is a doctor in the community - this could potentially be a mark on her record if it goes far enough, and could cause problems for her in her career.

I don't want to cause hardship to the family, I just want to make sure the kids are okay! And the mother too because I really think she needs help.

[soontobe]

CALL CALL CALL!!!!!!! My family is a foster family (we take in kids who can't live at home). My parents are still doing it. we hear crazy/terrible stories all the time. Even if the kids can stay at home that woman needs help! you need to call-help those kids, they don't deserve that! you have no idea how important it is

[lizajane]

i am so, so sad for them. this mother needs help. i am SURE my neighbors have heard me yelling at my children. SURE. things like, "GET INTO THE CAR!!!" and "DON'T LET THE DOGS EAT YOUR FOOD!" and "PUT ON YOUR CLOTHES!!!!" and that was at my worst, when sick with celiac and extreme fatigue and frustration. i worried once or twice someone would call them on me.

a mother simply cannot call her child a little b*tch and have healthy children who become healthy adults. these kids NEED HELP. it is not your job or responsibility to get them the help they need. but if you don't mind, calling someone whose job it IS to help them would be an awfully kind thing to do.

DSS is there to help children. it is their job. letting them know which children need their help is hard, but appropriate.

best of luck to you in this frightening situation, but even more to these poor babies.

[MmeSunny]

I am also a foster parent. Please call. You are the voice of strength for these children. If their mom won't fix it, their dad won't fix it and their nanny can't fix it, someone else needs to step in.

Not to go super religious on you, but there is a reason that YOU heard what was going on. Because you have the strength and willingness to get that family some help. Please follow through.

You never know what might be happening that you can't see/hear.

[kijip]

Honestly, the best thing you can do is to call CPS *each and every time you hear verbal abuse* then they have a pattern and that moves it up the line for follow-up.

Also, if you hear screaming late at night or things are very loud, call 911.

It takes a lot for child protective services to mandate parenting classes/counseling or remove the children (or in a situation where 1 parent is the problem, secure a court order that the parent who is abusive comply with a plan or not live with them etc). Calling once in most states won't get this family help. Calling as often as it happens may.

[happymom]

I don't now anything about DSS, but as a teacher in NY I unfortunately have experience with ACS and I'm assuming they work the same way. Very often, ACS will provide family training/parenting classes or even just a respite for a very overstressed Mom. I would definitely call.

[let73]

I'm a social worker and you should definitely call. There may be several calls on this family and your call may be the one that gets them to assess/investigate. Like PP's mentioned document everything and call as often as you hear/see something.

[pinay]

DH is a Child Protective Services worker and I'm a teacher, so we often have conversations about suspected child abuse. He has told me that you should NEVER confront a person you suspect of abusing a child- it may actually cause them to find ways to be abusive w/o leaving any physical marks, or may make things worse for the child(ren). Definitely call EVERY single time you hear something so that it gets documented- it will only give DSS more reason to go out and investigate and hopefully get that family the help it needs.

You're in a tough situation, but it is important to do what's right for those children. They should not be subjected to verbal abuse in their own home by their parent.

[citymama]

Are you sure it's the mom (not the nanny or TV show)? And that she's addressing the kids, not her husband or the nanny? If she's saying this stuff to her spouse or employee in front of the kids, it's still awful, but I would want to make sure this is her talking to the kids before calling her in.

I agree that if you call her in, do so anonymously - don't talk to the husband. It could endanger you. And for heaven's sakes, this man is sitting through all this verbal abuse - it's not like you need to bring it to his attention. Do you know if other neighbors are aware of her abusiveness? Her patients? Her behavior is totally unacceptable and unhealthy for her kids to be around.

[KarenLud]

nak-I used to work for CPS (but was laid off, budget cuts!) and you should definitely call. neighbors are often the best witnesses and yet they don't call. just last year in our county a teenage girl lost her life at the hands of her mother. there was evidence of long term severe physical abuse. after the child's death we hear neighbors saying things similar to what you are describing and yet no one called. this girl was not in school so the neighbors and other family members were the only ones who knew or had suspicions and they didn't call.

make the call and let cps make the call on whether or not they go out. i agree with pp about keeping a journal and/or calling everytime you think something is up. it will make noise w/cps and they may be more likely to come out.

oh you didn't mention this, but a lot of times people don't call or don't leave their name w/ the report because they don't want the family to know who called. here in ca the name remains confidential. even judges can't know who the reporting party is. and leaving your name gives "credibility" to reports. I know often times (not always) if it's "anonymous" they may be less likely to go out.

gl!

[hollybloom24]

Are you sure it's the mom (not the nanny or TV show)? And that she's addressing the kids, not her husband or the nanny? If she's saying this stuff to her spouse or employee in front of the kids, it's still awful, but I would want to make sure this is her talking to the kids before calling her in.

It is very clear it is the mother yelling at the children - she addresses them by name. She yells at the husband too. Never the nanny though. The nanny seems to leave soon after the mother arrives at home.

I will call.

Thanks for all the input and support!

[ilovetivo]

please let us know what happens! Hugs to the kids AND you!

[SnuggleBuggles]

I'm glad you are going to call. It makes no difference if it affects her work- it is a deserved consequence if it does! I hope something good can come out of it.

Beth

[bubbaray]

Wow. I guess I'm lucky I'm not your neighbor -- or possibly I am and you just have my profession wrong.

I yell at my kids. I yell at my husband. We have a very loud household. I do not physically abuse my children, nor do I believe I am psychologically or verbally abusing them. I'm puzzled why you think if someone yells at a child that that warrants a call to DSS or why it implies that they are physically abusing the children.

What you describe does not meet my definition of child abuse. I think it would be a waste of scarce resources to call in those circumtances.

[kijip]

What you describe does not meet my definition of child abuse. I think it would be a waste of scarce resources to call in those circumtances.

Screaming obscenities and name calling as the OP described is verbal abuse, if it is not, then what exactly is verbal abuse? I certainly don't think that yelling=abuse but when it includes the volume (neighbors hearing all the time), frequency, vitriol and obscene content described, then I think it does. There is a big difference between "GO BACK TO BED NOW!" and "You little bitch" and threatening suicide on account of the child being "bad". Perhaps the woman is a good mom who is seriously depressed or needs some help. Or perhaps she is a nasty person and cruel mother that will not change. Or any degree in between. Regardless, there should be resources to investigate when a child is being hurt. Because having your mom tell you she wishes herself dead on your account is scary and violent, not normal family stuff.

[bubbaray]

OP does not know the whole situation and it sounds like she is hearing parts of conversations, not the whole conversation. Context is everything.

D/n meet my definition of abuse, verbal or otherwise. JMHO.

[happymom]

OP does not know the whole situation and it sounds like she is hearing parts of conversations, not the whole conversation. Context is everything.

D/n meet my definition of abuse, verbal or otherwise. JMHO.

I don't see how calling a child a little b*tch could be acceptable in any context. In any case, hopefully you are right and those children are safe. But it sounds like the OP's gut feeling is otherwise. In that case, it couldnt really HURT to place the call. Hopefully DSS will find out that everything is OK.

[kijip]

OP does not know the whole situation and it sounds like she is hearing parts of conversations, not the whole conversation. Context is everything.



I am having a hard time picturing the context that would make threatening suicide and using cuss words in the direction of children young enough to still need a nanny ever ok. There is no other side of the conversation that warrants that from an adult to a child. I was fortunate enough not to grow up in an abusive home (though, like you describe yourself, my parents were loud) but having married a man that is the adult survivor of abuse and having a mother that was the adult survivor of abuse gives me a pretty clear picture of the sort of damage such words can do to a person.

[Globetrotter]

Bubbaray, I yell at my kids, especially when it's time to get out the door before swimming and ds is running out refusing to put on his sunscreen! Once in a while I have my mommy tantrums, as I call it, when noone is listening and I've been with them all day and at my wits end. The kids yell and scream and fight (even though they get along wonderfully most of the time, moreso than most siblings we know). If someone monitors our house on swimming mornings, they may wonder what the heck is going on as I'm running after ds, screaming at him to stay STILL, with a bottle of Blue Lizard in my hands, panicking because we are getting late again (nowadays I try to get everything else done the night before, and that has made these mornings much calmer). We are a loud family, and I certainly hope noone calls CPS on me, because MOST of the time we are also a very loving family. I would hope our neighbors also see all the happy times!

I guess the difference here is:
1. the consistency
2. the terms used (*itch and the F word are never acceptable when children are involved, though honestly I'm sure I've used it a couple of times on dh in our 18 years together!)
3. the way the kids behave
4. no balance, assuming they never appear to do normal, playful family stuff

The mom is probably completely stressed and needs some anger management classes, at the very least. Unfortunately, she (and possibly her dh) would take it out on the kids if addressed directly. I hope you and your other neighbors are able to make a difference.