What I should've asked: Should I send our non-denominational child to Catholic sch?

[mommysammi]

I'm totally stressing out about sending DS to "the" school. Our local public schools have been hit hard by the budget cuts so we decided to send him to a private school. We are a Christian family but the one and only local Christian school is very behind in academics. There are tons of Catholic schools here. Should I be concerned about sending DS to a Catholic school? TIA.

Clarification:

I did not have any intentions to offend any Catholics on this board. I'm very very sorry. We are a non-denominational family. The last thing I wanted to do was stir up a controversial religious topic. I am grateful to see how some responded because I think it gives me insight on what might happen within a religion-based school. I have to admit that I wanted to cry when I read how divided us, followers of Jesus, can be but that is another thread topic. I am very sorry if I unintentionally offended anyone.

THANK YOU to everyone for your advice and input. I will visit all the schools and hopefully ask all the right questions.

[justlearning]

I think it would depend on how much their Catholicism is emphasized in the school. I have friends whose kids go to a local Catholic school that I would probably not send DS to. That school does have a strong emphasis on teaching their beliefs and rituals, which I think would be confusing to DS especially considering his young age.

But we have the luxury of having great public schools here so I haven't felt the need to send him to a private school. Good luck with your decision--it sounds like a tough one!

ETA that of course I'm not saying anything negative about Catholicism or Catholic schools--it's just different than how we're raising our son (as Protestant Christians) so thus would probably be confusing to him.

[traciann]

I would not be comfortable having a school teach different religious beliefs to my child. When you say that the public schools are taking a big hit, how would that affect your child?

[elaineandmichaelsmommy]

I'd do it without a second thought. Most catholic schools these days don't teach catechism during religion class time. Mostly it's just morals,ethics and just general "how to be a good person" type stuff. For example, a friend of mine sends both of her dc to a cath. school. For valentines day the children in her dd's class made cards for the elderly in nursing homes to recieve and thereby got a lesson in charity. This would not have happened in a public school.

I can understand your concern if they're attending mass but I'll tell you, I grew up protestant and went to cath. elementary school and attended mass every week and came out fine. I may have had a few questions here and there but it wasn't anything that my parents couldn't answer. Gathering from the way you phrased things I'm guessing you attend your own church pretty regularly so your dc really shouldn't get too "confused"(for lack of a better word). I always found the holy water and the confessional to be very interesting and was curious but that was about it for me.

Actually if we could afford it I'd be sending our dc to one of the better catholic schools in our area but instead we're moving to a better public school district. I personally feel that the children learn some things at catholic schools that they should be teaching in public schools and don't anymore.

[eidean]

It probably depends on a lot of factors. Firstly, I imagine you would want to do some research and see how different your faith is from Catholicism (since all branches of Christianity sprouted from Catholics) and whether you're okay with your DS being taught those differences. Then you probably want to tour the schools and/or meet with the principal. Be upfront and ask how they've dealt with non-Catholic children in the past (I imagine most religious schools get students of different faiths from time to time, due in part to the same issue you're dealing with.) I wouldn't expect them to provide different lessons necessarily, but the way those students are treated will make a big difference. Will your child be told (explicitly or implicitly) he's a heathen and going to hell every time a bible study class comes up? Or that his parents are? Not that the principal is likely to tell you that outright, but their reaction to the question ought to speak volumes. If you get a good feeling from some of the schools, ask if they currently have any non-Catholic students and if they can put you in contact with the other parents, so you can get a more direct idea of how things are handled.

Ask about the science curriculum too, that's probably the biggest possible sticking point for straight academics.

Also know that it could have a social impact. An ex-coworker of mine went to a Christian school even though his parents were only loosely Christian (if that, can't remember) and they didn't attend the church the school was attached to. He said that most of the school had a sense of community because they all went to the same church, and he was on the outside of that.

Lastly, kids are impressionable and you never know what little bits they're going to pick up. As justlearning said, it could probably be confusing if he gets one rhetoric at home and another at school, and it could be even more confusing if he's told not to believe one or the other. And people can be very touchy about their faith. I can remember wanting to slap a friend of mine when we were probably early teens (she was non-denominational but going to a Baptist school) because she told me "my bible teacher says being baptised Catholic won't get you into heaven." I'm more of a "live and let live" sort--and so is she, now (we are still friends)--but her school had been laying it on pretty thick.

Hope this helps!

[ellies mom]

Umm, Catholics are Christians. They may not be the same denomination as you but they are Christians.

Which of course isn't the answer to your question but a bit of a soapbox of mine. Like JustLearning said it really depends on the school. One of our local schools puts a huge emphasis on religious education and even admits to less of an emphasis on secular topics. My Catholic friends won't even send their kids there. Some of the schools the next city over really focus on an excellent education with varying amounts of emphasis on religious education. If you really do not like the public schools, it is worth taking a look because they are definitely not created equal.

[TwinFoxes]

Umm, Catholics are Christians. They may not be the same denomination as you but they are Christians.


:yeahthat: You may not have meant it, but your title is pretty offensive. A more appropriate title is "Would you send your PROTESTANT child to a Catholic school". I honestly think if you're concerned the answer is no.

[kijip]

I share Elliesmom's soapbox. Catholics are Christians. Repeat, Catholics are Christians and the Catholic and Orthodox churches in fact pre-date Protestant denominations by more than 1000 years. There are a lot of different Christian denominations, with some Protestant denominations being more different from each other than they are from Catholicism. For example, I might be more willing to send an Episcopalian child to a school run by the Catholic church than a Southern Baptist church.

If I liked the school, thought it was the right school for my child, and did not object to the approach they took to teaching religion (ie were tolerant of religious differences), I would send my child to a school run by a different Christian denomination or for that matter a different religious tradition altogether. FWIW, the Catholic schools here tend to teach all academic subjects with rigor and evolution in Science is taught as the general rule. One note, traditionally Catholic schools have rather large class sizes. 30-40+ for young elementary school is not un-heard of.

[TwinFoxes]

evolution in Science is taught as the general rule.

I didn't want this point to get lost in your orignal post. I assume evolution is what a pp was alluding to when worrying about science instruction. I thnk there is a general misconception about Catholocism and evolution. Catholic education teaches evolution. I can't say there isn't some odd parochial school somewhere that doesn't teach evolution, but that is not the norm.

Of course maybe the pp was worried because she doesn't believe in evolution and doesn't want it taught in science? ;)

[kijip]

I didn't want this point to get lost in your orignal post. I assume evolution is what a pp was alluding to when worrying about science instruction. I thnk there is a general misconception about Catholocism and evolution. Catholic education teaches evolution. I can't say there isn't some odd parochial school somewhere that doesn't teach evolution, but that is not the norm.

And it's not new to Catholic school, my 67 year old father learned evolution from nuns (he mostly went to Catholic school from K-12). There is a big perception that religion is co-mingled with all the subjects and that is not the case in most instances/most schools. Most Catholic schools have a pretty decent number of non-Catholic students as well.

[specialp]

Umm, Catholics are Christians. They may not be the same denomination as you but they are Christians.

:yeahthat:

ITA w/ pps; it depends. Just meet with them & see. Most Catholic schools (or at least a lot) have a mix of non-Catholics. Most administration are used to & prepared for any questions you will ask.

My biggest concern (from the thread title), however, would be that you need to have a firm undertanding of the fundamental differences & similaries b/w your denomination & Catholism so that you're prepared for questions when they come from DC.

[maestramommy]

If the public schools in our area were bad and private school was the only way to go, I would definitely look at the catholic schools along with secular. I didn't go to catholic school, but I imagine like many pp said, they are not all the same. Just like the church based preschools in our area are not the same in their religious emphasis.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Umm, Catholics are Christians. They may not be the same denomination as you but they are Christians.

Which of course isn't the answer to your question but a bit of a soapbox of mine. Like JustLearning said it really depends on the school. One of our local schools puts a huge emphasis on religious education and even admits to less of an emphasis on secular topics. My Catholic friends won't even send their kids there. Some of the schools the next city over really focus on an excellent education with varying amounts of emphasis on religious education. If you really do not like the public schools, it is worth taking a look because they are definitely not created equal.

:yeahthat: Like other posters, I scratched my head a bit about your distinction between Catholics and Christians. They both believe in Jesus so I am not sure how divergent their teachings would be.

If you like the school then go for it.

I sent my ds to a Jewish preschool even though dh and I are non practicing Christian based people. My opinion is that there is nothing wrong with exposing your child to other ideas, cultures or beliefs. It isn't all that hard to say "some people believe X but our family believes why- and both are ok!". Teaching respect, understanding and tolerance is a great thing. Helps broaden their world view too so they know that there are other ways of thinking in the world.

Beth

[Gena]

Well, MY Christian child IS Catholic, so yes I would. (I don't becaue our local Catholic schools cannot accommodate his special needs. But if I could, I would sent him to Catholic school in a heartbeat.)


As for whether or not it is the right choice for YOUR child depends on the specifics of your faith and the characteristics of the individual school. I went to Catholic schools and my elementary classmates included Lutherans, Methodists, other Protestants, and even one family who were Hindu.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Just thinking about this a bit more since I went to Catholic grade school. They did spend a lot of time in 2nd grade preparing us for our First Communion. I remember throughout school a lot of emphasis being on the sacraments. So, that is one thing you might want to consider as it could differ from your religious background.

Beth

[Melaine]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine. And Christianity as most people view it did not stem from Catholicism, Christianity stemmed from the apostles following the Great Commission but of course goes back to the Old Testament.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be against sending my children to a Catholic school. I would consider it on a case by case basis. The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.

[mecawa]

You need to tour the school and talk to the staff in depth. Not all Catholic schools are the same. The one our DD#1 goes to is awesome, they don't get too preachy/religous but it is a Catholic school so there is some religon but it was a level at which I was comfortable with. I am Catholic to begin with but was concerned about the idea of another person teaching my child religon and how strict and radical they might be about it. Our public schools took a massive hit last year and that's why we made the choice to send her to private school instead. There are children at my DD's school that are non Catholic Christians, Jewish, and some that are not affiliated with any religon at all. Check out the different schools and talk to the staff about what exactly their religous curriculum entails.

[boolady]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine. And Christianity as most people view it did not stem from Catholicism, Christianity stemmed from the apostles following the Great Commission but of course goes back to the Old Testament.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be against sending my children to a Catholic school. I would consider it on a case by case basis. The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.

I have to agree with this. I would have to seriously consider sending DD to a Catholic school, and really look into it given that many in my area seem to be very religion-heavy. I'm not sure how issues aren't going to come up when children go to Mass as a class once a week, and the classmates who are not Catholic will not be welcome to share in communion and the Catholic classmates will and when they are taught that only Catholics are worthy of being saved. I guess it depends on the atmosphere of the school as well as how many other Protestant or non-Catholic students also attend there.

[TwinFoxes]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine. And Christianity as most people view it did not stem from Catholicism, Christianity stemmed from the apostles following the Great Commission but of course goes back to the Old Testament.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be against sending my children to a Catholic school. I would consider it on a case by case basis. The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.

Catholics are Christians. Period. Like I said before to say Catholics aren't Christians is offensive. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came down from heaven and was crucified for our sins. We believe he was resurrected. That is Christianity. Protestants and Catholics have differences in their theological teachings, but that does not mean that Catholics aren't Christian.

I don't think you're being the voice of dissent. I for one said she shouldn't send her DC to a Catholic school if she is worried about it.

[mamicka]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine. And Christianity as most people view it did not stem from Catholicism, Christianity stemmed from the apostles following the Great Commission but of course goes back to the Old Testament.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be against sending my children to a Catholic school. I would consider it on a case by case basis. The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.

:yeahthat:

[specialp]

The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.

I don't disagree at all, but just to point out that I don't think anyone was saying those feelings weren't valid or that there aren't huge doctrinal differences. My family is a full mix of Southern Baptists & Catholics w/ a sprinkle of some others . . . believe, I KNOW there are differences.

But Catholics are Christians and to say that they aren't, to exclude them from that "category" directly or by implication is wrong and offensive. I'm not saying OP or PPs were offensive in anyway - I promise. However, where I live, it is a common misconception that Catholics aren't Christian and it causes a lot of tension. Most posters, I believe, said to look at the particular school, ask questions, and guage your own comfort level with that particular school b/c all are not created equal or have the same teaching/religious curriculum. My particular comment was to look at the fundamental differences b/w the two so that the OP could know what kind of questions to ask (e.g., first communion/2nd grade, religious class, mass attendance).

ETA: Also, I think in a perfect world, most people would send their kids to a school that fit perfectly with their particular beliefs, or lack thereof, as the case may be. The situation here (it seems) and in a lot of places is that the offered public school system is so lacking that people are having to look at private schools which are great in academics, but don't mesh with the families' beliefs. It is very common, particularly in this day and age, and a lot of parochial schools are well adapted to accomodate those students without imposing their religious beliefs . . . but all are not so well adapted; it is a case-by-case situation.

[WatchingThemGrow]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine. And Christianity as most people view it did not stem from Catholicism, Christianity stemmed from the apostles following the Great Commission but of course goes back to the Old Testament.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be against sending my children to a Catholic school. I would consider it on a case by case basis. The OP has legitimate concerns about what her DC will be exposed to as we all are, so please do not tell her those concerns are not valid by denying that there are huge doctrinal differences in the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and Christians. I think many Catholics and Christians would argue the so-called subtle differences are not minor to someone who takes that faith very seriously.
I'm along these lines. I recognize a pretty big difference between the teachings of the Catholic church and teachings we want our children to learn. Therefore, *I* wouldn't want to pay someone to teach my child something different from what DH and I (and our church) are teaching them.

Instead of bailing out of the public schools, is there some way to invest yourself (and get friends to do the same) so that they'd not feel the downturn you mentioned?

[Gena]

Catholics are Christians. Period. Like I said before to say Catholics aren't Christians is offensive. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came down from heaven and was crucified for our sins. We believe he was resurrected. That is Christianity. Protestants and Catholics have differences in their theological teachings, but that does not mean that Catholics aren't Christian.


:yeahthat:

Catholics are Christians. To say otherwise is very offensive.



...when they are taught that only Catholics are worthy of being saved...

This is NOT a Catholic belief. It is a common misunderstanding of Catholicism.

[wellyes]

To be the voice of dissent, there are many important differences in Biblical Christianity and Catholicism. Many Catholics are Christians, but definitively there are huge differences in doctrine.

If you are from a church that teaches that Catholics are not Christians or that one "some" Catholics are Christians, then I'd discourage you from sending your child to a Catholic school unless you're prepared for them to challenge that doctrine.

[boolady]

:yeahthat:

Catholics are Christians. To say otherwise is very offensive.




This is NOT a Catholic belief. It is a common misunderstanding of Catholicism.

Well, I have sat in the Catholic Church where my husband was a member for 35 years numerous times in the past 9 years and had the monsignor tell the entire congregation that, so perhaps someone should clue him in.

ETA: I'm not debating any religion or denomination's right to believe whatever they want to believe. I just know what I've been told on many a Sunday morning, not something I have misunderstood or generalized about.

[Melaine]

If you are from a church that teaches that Catholics are not Christians or that one "some" Catholics are Christians, then I'd discourage you from sending your child to a Catholic school unless you're prepared for them to challenge that doctrine.

I think you are misunderstanding me and that is probably because I haven't fully explained. I am referring to the fact that Christianity is a personal choice. Christians are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are people sitting in churches every Sunday across our country who have not made a personal decision to follow Christ. Those people are part of a myriad of denominations, including mine. No one can tell me whether or not I am saved, that is strictly between myself and God. The same goes for others, though, so I can't determine whether they are truly saved or not. I am not referring to the general term of Christianity that many people use to categorize whole denominations. I am referring to whether or not an individual has chosen faith in Christ Jesus.

[Gena]

Well, I have sat in the Catholic Church where my husband was a member for 35 years numerous times in the past 9 years and had the monsignor tell the entire congregation that, so perhaps someone should clue him in.

ETA: I'm not debating any religion or denomination's right to believe whatever they want to believe. I just know what I've been told on many a Sunday morning, not something I have misunderstood or generalized about.

I'm curious, is that a direct quote from the Monsignor? Or did he say something like, "There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church"? That statement is Catholic doctrine, but it does not mean that non-Catholics are not saved. It means that non-Catholics are saved through the Catholic Church, even if they do not realize it. You may want to ask the Monsignor to clarify this issue.

[TonFirst]

Ask about the science curriculum too, that's probably the biggest possible sticking point for straight academics.


(Full disclosure - I am a Catholic school-educated cradle Catholic who send my son to a Catholic preschool)

Frankly, I would be more concerned about the science curriculum at a protestant school - but keep in mind that I live in a part of the country where the school board just recently removed stickers from the front of science texts telling kids to remember, evolution is just a theory! No proof! So saddle those dinos, cavemen!

I'd be interested in hearing from any New Orleaneans on this issue - in New Orleans, the public school system is lacking in many areas, and the private school scene is dominated, with few exceptions, by Catholic schools. In the archdiocesan schools I attended there, I sat alongside kids from many different protestant branches, as well as Judaism.

[Jen841]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Umm, Catholics are Christians. They may not be the same denomination as you but they are Christians.

I agree with that. I great up Christian and am now Catholic. It did not create any family issues, in fact my parents supported it 100%. They are happy I practice my faith and go to church, that is a dream come true for them.

Our children will go to Catholic school. Catholic schools here have SMALLER classes. I appreciate the religion being taught. J just completed K and loved it, his favorite lessons he comes home speaking about are religion. If that is what excites him that is good. Heck, I am learning from him!

We are not upset with our public schools but the classes are larger and we have a NEW school (3 years old.)

My parents are very supportive of J's school and their activities. If you do it just know your child's religious foundation will be enlightened, and you may actively need to twist things to highlight your beliefs. They are similar, but they may discuss the Saints more than you believe.

The teachers in the Catholic school I love. They get paid less, but love those children more than you can imagine. The love and support of the staff was priceless for us the last year as J had 2 surgeries. The prayers from his class and teacher brought me to tears, so worth it!

[TwinFoxes]

so saddle those dinos, cavemen!


:rotflmao:

[mommy111]

As a non Catholic graduate of a Catholic school, I can say that *my* experience with Catholic school was outstanding. The curriculum was well taught and there were a lot of things taught ('character building', charity, charity by example and practice) that I think we really benefitted from. Of course, our Catholic school was very tolerant and did not really preach to those that were not Catholic. I still ended up with some Catholic traits (guilt ;)) but even where my doctrine was different from that the nuns at our school followed, I ended up with a very genuine respect for the thought process and the intention of the Catholic Church.

[vonfirmath]

(Full disclosure - I am a Catholic school-educated cradle Catholic who send my son to a Catholic preschool)

Frankly, I would be more concerned about the science curriculum at a protestant school - but keep in mind that I live in a part of the country where the school board just recently removed stickers from the front of science texts telling kids to remember, evolution is just a theory! No proof! So saddle those dinos, cavemen!

I think its very sad so many people believe only what they are taught in school and do not do the research for themselves.

[boolady]

I'm curious, is that a direct quote from the Monsignor? Or did he say something like, "There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church"? That statement is Catholic doctrine, but it does not mean that non-Catholics are not saved. It means that non-Catholics are saved through the Catholic Church, even if they do not realize it. You may want to ask the Monsignor to clarify this issue.

Yes, it's essentially a direct quote from the monsignor. He always says (now, granted, I haven't been there in over a year, but was going fairly frequently before then) some variation of that...only Catholics will be saved, only Catholics will be going to Heaven, etc. I am positive he did not mean that non-Catholics will be saved through the Catholic Church. I really don't think calling to ask him will be productive, given that he called my house to make sure I understood that DH and I were living in sin because we were married in a Protestant Church. Of course, we tried to get him to participate in the service at the church where I grew up, but he declined.

[mamicka]

I think you are misunderstanding me and that is probably because I haven't fully explained. I am referring to the fact that Christianity is a personal choice. Christians are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are people sitting in churches every Sunday across our country who have not made a personal decision to follow Christ. Those people are part of a myriad of denominations, including mine. No one can tell me whether or not I am saved, that is strictly between myself and God. The same goes for others, though, so I can't determine whether they are truly saved or not. I am not referring to the general term of Christianity that many people use to categorize whole denominations. I am referring to whether or not an individual has chosen faith in Christ Jesus.

I agree.......

[wellyes]

I think you are misunderstanding me and that is probably because I haven't fully explained. I am referring to the fact that Christianity is a personal choice. Christians are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are people sitting in churches every Sunday across our country who have not made a personal decision to follow Christ. Those people are part of a myriad of denominations, including mine. No one can tell me whether or not I am saved, that is strictly between myself and God. The same goes for others, though, so I can't determine whether they are truly saved or not. I am not referring to the general term of Christianity that many people use to categorize whole denominations. I am referring to whether or not an individual has chosen faith in Christ Jesus.

You believe this, and I respect that. Please understand - Catholics do not believe this. Your description of personal salvation is a Protestant viewpoint.

So that is the controversy over whether Catholics are Christian. If you believe that only people who believe in Jesus in the strictly Protestant manner that you describe as Christians, then Catholics are not Christian. But that is a pretty divisive viewpoint.

[AnnieW625]

Catholics are Christians. Period. Like I said before to say Catholics aren't Christians is offensive. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came down from heaven and was crucified for our sins. We believe he was resurrected. That is Christianity. Protestants and Catholics have differences in their theological teachings, but that does not mean that Catholics aren't Christian.

I don't think you're being the voice of dissent. I for one said she shouldn't send her DC to a Catholic school if she is worried about it.

I totally agree with Twinfoxes here. As someone who grew up Catholic and is still practicing today I try to keep an open mind, but honestly it ticks me off when people say that Catholics aren't Christians. Also why does someone need to be saved to be a Christian? I have believed in God for as long as I can remember, I was baptized, married in the church, and my child is baptized, plus I live by the 10 Commandments, and I go to church as much as possible. I looked to the Lord for guidance many times in my life but because I don't feel the need to come out and say I have been "saved" I just don't get how does that not make me Christian?

I went to catechism classes (did not go to Catholic school) from 1st through 8th grade and with the exception of learning the Apostles Creed, and the Nicene Creed (two parts of the Catholic mass) I found catechism classes to be fairly well rounded and we basically learned bible verses like any other Christian student would. In college I went to a baptist church for a college group (College Ave. Baptist in San Diego) and I found it to be a very rewarding experience and with the exception of the Lord's Prayer (we don't say the final paragraph) I found very little differences between the NIV and the Catholic bible. We discussed the new and old testaments. I even went to church there once or twice and I enjoyed it but in my heart I was Catholic and returned to the Catholic church for mass because that is what I was used to. I encourage all Christians to attend a Catholic church at least once in their lives.

Here is the definition of catechism from Wikipedia and I believe that this can cover the Christian child's education too:
"Catechesis (pronounced /ˌkætəˈkiːsɪs/) is an education in the faith of children, young people and adults which includes especially the teaching of Christian doctrine imparted, generally speaking, in an organic and systematic way, with a view to initiating the hearers into the fullness of Christian life."

Now back to the original question, as a Catholic parent of a Catholic child if I liked the Christian school enough I would consider sending my child there just like I hope a Christian parent of a Christian child would consider sending their child to Catholic school if it was a good fit for the family. Like any other school I would send my child to I would go in with a very open mind and list of questions. I hope things work out for you and your child, and I applaud you for posting such a thought provoking post here :)

ETA: I love the Thessolanians verse that Mamicka posted in her signature line: Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 NIV . I tend to think I live my life like this and this includes my faith in Jesus, and my life as a Christian.

[kransden]

For me I would say yes. I like Catholic School values. For you maybe not. Since Catholics believe in Jesus Christ they are Christians, just not Protestants. You know, Christian i.e. followers of Christ. By reading your title, I think that you do not know enough about Catholicism to be ok with what occurs at the school. Where do members of your church send their kids?

If you are serious about sending your dc there, call the school and ask to make an appointment for them to explain the school AND what Catholicism is all about. It is the only way you'll be able to make an informed choice.

[mamicka]

You believe this, and I respect that. Please understand - Catholics do not believe this. Your description of personal salvation is a Protestant viewpoint.

So that is the controversy over whether Catholics are Christian. If you believe that only people who believe in Jesus in the strictly Protestant manner that you describe as Christians, then Catholics are not Christian. But that is a pretty divisive viewpoint.

I understand what you are saying. I don't think Melaine said that Catholics weren't Christian. I can't speak for her but since I agreed with her posts I'll try to explain further. The state of ones Christianity isn't tied to your denomination but to your heart & is between you & God. Catholics may not agree with that, nor may other denominations & that is there perogative to define it as they may. But that isn't the same thing as saying "Catholics aren't Christian". I don't believe that blanket statement is true.

However, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that according to the Catholic Church, I would be considered a formal heretic, no? Since I 1) reject the authority of the Pope & also disagree with Catholic dogma (heretic) & I 2) do so consciously (formal). That would be a very devisive view, IMO.

Ultimately, it isn't my place to just anyone's Christianity, but my beliefs are important to me & I make no apologies for pointing out differences when I think they matter.

[schums]

One thing to keep in mind, there are 2 different meanings to the word Catholic. Catholic with a capital "C" generally means the Roman Catholic Church, based in Rome, with the head being the Pope. Catholic with a lower case "c" means "universal church" and is in fact in the Nicene creed that most Christians say/know.

"And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come."

So in the spoken word, you might not be able to distinguish the difference in what he was meaning, especially if it was an older priest who used "old school" vernacular. NOT saying that he shouldn't have been more clear, or that he didn't mean what you though, but there could be another explanation.

[eidean]

Of course maybe the pp was worried because she doesn't believe in evolution and doesn't want it taught in science? ;)

Not at all. I've never had trouble reconciling the two viewpoints and I think they fit together just fine. As a little kid, I can even remember asking my mom why Adam and Eve didn't look like monkeys in my illustrated bible. :D

But I know some people don't believe in evolution (are even violently opposed to it, from the few who make the news) so I just wanted OP to check the science curriculum to make sure it fits with her own beliefs (regardless of which way they go.) And I've personally never attended a religious school (Catholic or otherwise) so I don't know which ones would fall on which sides of the argument--and as PP have said, it probably depends on the individual school and not its denomination.

[AnnieW625]

However, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that according to the Catholic Church, I would be considered a formal heretic, no? Since I 1) reject the authority of the Pope & also disagree with Catholic dogma (heretic) & I 2) do so consciously (formal). That would be a very devisive view, IMO.

Ultimately, it isn't my place to just anyone's Christianity, but my beliefs are important to me & I make no apologies for pointing out differences when I think they matter.

Mamicka, there are probably more heretics in the Catholic Church than the church will ever admit. I have a lesbian aunt who still goes to church even though she is considered a sinner for her lifestyle by the church (one reason I don't care for many of the Pope's views, but is any Christian church any different?) and I would be considered a heretic too because I don't make my decision based on the Pope and with the exception of the fact that I do like my mass very formal because that is what I am used to I don't really follow the Catholic dogma either. I find Kevin Smith's (also Catholic) film Dogma to be a very true satirical look at the Catholic church.

[ha98ed14]

You believe this, and I respect that. Please understand - Catholics do not believe this. Your description of personal salvation is a Protestant viewpoint.

So that is the controversy over whether Catholics are Christian. If you believe that only people who believe in Jesus in the strictly Protestant manner that you describe as Christians, then Catholics are not Christian. But that is a pretty divisive viewpoint.

Late to the party, but I wanted to add another Christian viewpoint. We are Orthodox Christian (like the Greeks and the Russians). The Orthodox Church teaches that salvation *DOES* happen on a personal level, but it is not an irrevocable state you enter -"saved"- after you pray a prayer to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. (We don't have this prayer in Orthodoxy; I just know about it from conversations with Evangelical Protestant friends.)

Orthodox Christians believe that salvation is something that an individual person works out over the course of his/ her lifetime. "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Phil 2:12, emphasis mine.) No two people have the same road to salvation. Everyone's journey to salvation is different, that is why it is not for us to judge.

I think that the label "Christian" has come to mean different things in different contexts. In it's most general term, it is an umbrella for all belief systems and denominations that have Jesus Christ as part of their theology. In the Orthodox perspective, (and I think the Roman Catholic too, but I could be wrong) we consider a denomination to be Christian if it holds true the statements in the Nicene Creed, which is basically the profession of the Trinity, the death and resurrection of Christ, and if the denomination baptizes their members in the name of the Trinity. In the evangelical Christian denominations, they use the term "Christian" as a label for individual people to basically mean a true believer. So using the term that way, there *could* be pews of people sitting in Christian churches (Lutheran, Episcopal, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.) on a Sunday who were not Christian, in the minds of people who use the term Christian to mean true believer. I personally do not believe this, but I think that the conflict is stemming from the way different groups use the label "Christian."

[mamicka]

Mamicka, there are probably more heretics in the Catholic Church than the church will ever admit. I have a lesbian aunt who still goes to church even though she is considered a sinner for her lifestyle by the church (one reason I don't care for many of the Pope's views, but is any Christian church any different?) and I would be considered a heretic too because I don't make my decision based on the Pope and with the exception of the fact that I do like my mass very formal because that is what I am used to I don't really follow the Catholic dogma either. I find Kevin Smith's (also Catholic) film Dogma to be a very true satirical look at the Catholic church.

I agree with you. My point is that the actual teachings of the Catholic Church are just as divisive as the teaching of some (all?) protestant denominations. I'm not offended by either, even when I'm not seen in a favorable light by some. Each denomination is entitled to their own beliefs without being criticized for not being inclusive.

[kijip]

Yes, it's essentially a direct quote from the monsignor. He always says (now, granted, I haven't been there in over a year, but was going fairly frequently before then) some variation of that...only Catholics will be saved, only Catholics will be going to Heaven, etc.

I grew up in the Catholic church. This is not what I was taught at any point in time. I don't say this undermine your experiences, only to say that Catholicism is not always this way. My recent church, the one we buried my mother out of was extremely willing to engage with the other denominations involved in memorializing and celebrating her life.

[boolady]

I grew up in the Catholic church. This is not what I was taught at any point in time. I don't say this undermine your experiences, only to say that Catholicism is not always this way. My recent church, the one we buried my mother out of was extremely willing to engage with the other denominations involved in memorializing and celebrating her life.

That's great. That's the complete opposite of things that have happened pretty much at every major event in my husband's family. I hope that my experiences are not typical, because they have been really, really bad, if you believe that part of the point is that God loves everyone, cares for everyone, and protects everyone, as I had always been taught.

ETA: And if being exclusive is what the church wants, that's fine. I'm just saying it's not my experience.

[kijip]

I was never taught as a Catholic child that any other Christian children were not Christians. I find it offensive, but moreover just plain sad, that others deem it ok to determine if Catholics are Christians at all. Offensive and frankly a little cruel. And I say this as someone who is not choosing to remain active in the Catholic church at this time. We attend an open and affirming American Baptist church with a minister we like personally very much.

Protestant denominations branched off from the Catholic church and then from each other, there is no Protestant denomination as old as the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

[boolady]

I agree with you. My point is that the actual teachings of the Catholic Church are just as divisive as the teaching of some (all?) protestant denominations. I'm not offended by either, even when I'm not seen in a favorable light by some. Each denomination is entitled to their own beliefs without being criticized for not being inclusive.

I think you said this perfectly. I agree that each denomination is entitled to their own beliefs and if it doesn't want to be inclusive, that's fine. Given that, (1) it's not divisive to accept diversity and respect other religions, just as you would (hopefully) respect different beliefs/opinions about any number of subjects; and (2) all I felt all along was that given the differences between ALL religions individually, I would seriously have to evaluate the religious nature of any private, religiously affiliated school before sending my child there. I only even posted in this thread in the first place because it seemed that folks were really making light of the differences between some of the beliefs of many Protestant religions and Catholicism.

[wellyes]

However, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that according to the Catholic Church, I would be considered a formal heretic, no? Since I 1) reject the authority of the Pope & also disagree with Catholic dogma (heretic) & I 2) do so consciously (formal). That would be a very devisive view, IMO.

I think what you'd be told is that you are not a Catholic. There is a BIG difference between saying "If you don't believe in Catholic doctrine, you're not a Catholic" than "If you don't believe in Evangelical doctrine, you are not a Christian".

In mass I was always taught that Jews, Muslims and Christians of all faiths do worship the same God. That's from different priests over a 18 year period. They tried their best to encourage ecumenical cooperation and not exclusion.


I find it offensive, but moreover just plain sad, that others deem it ok to determine if Catholics are Christians at all. Offensive and frankly a little cruel. And I say this as someone who is not choosing to remain active in the Catholic church at this time.

ITA.

[boolady]

I was never taught as a Catholic child that any other Christian children were not Christians. I find it offensive, but moreover just plain sad, that others deem it ok to determine if Catholics are Christians at all. Offensive and frankly a little cruel. And I say this as someone who is not choosing to remain active in the Catholic church at this time. We attend an open and affirming American Baptist church with a minister we like personally very much.

Protestant denominations branched off from the Catholic church and then from each other, there is no Protestant denomination as old as the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

I don't know if this is in response to my post, but I never said I believed that Catholics weren't Christian. I have never been taught that, nor would I ever believe that. All I intended to address was the issue of whether I would send my non-Catholic child to a Catholic school.

[mommylamb]

This is an interesting thread. I'm not Christian of any sort and certainly not an expert in theology. But, as an outsider looking in, I would certainly think Catholics were Christian. In my head being Christian is whether you believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I do not. I don't really even understand what people mean when they say they've been saved. I can totally see why people would find it offensive when others say they're Catholic and therefore not Christian because it sounds like the people saying that are belittling their beliefs.

I don't think it's very fair to define other people in general. For example, I'm a non-practicing agnostic Jew. I've had people tell me that I'm not Jewish and I find this deeply offensive. My father's side of the family were nearly all murdered during WWII, so yeah, I don't believe in God, but I certainly am Jewish.

[kijip]

I don't know if this is in response to my post, but I never said I believed that Catholics weren't Christian. I have never been taught that, nor would I ever believe that. All I intended to address was the issue of whether I would send my non-Catholic child to a Catholic school.

Nope, not in response to you. In response to other posters, more than one that have said "Some Catholics are Christians" and other such discriminatory things. If I posted on this thread and said "some Protestants aren't Christians" people would rightfully be offended. But I don't, because I don't believe it to be true and I think it a horrible thing to believe.

I can't account for what every Catholic parish in the country does. However, in the diocese we live and in the church we baptized T in, no one would ever be told they were unsaved or not Christian because they were not Catholic. Not even the most conservative priests in town, who I have personally met when looking for a Catholic church believe this.

[mamicka]

If I posted on this thread and said "some Protestants aren't Christians" people would rightfully be offended.

I wouldn't be offended at all. I actually agree with the statement that "some Protestants aren't Christians". I think that we're defining the term "Christian" differently.

[JamiMac]

I think what you'd be told is that you are not a Catholic. There is a BIG difference between saying "If you don't believe in Catholic doctrine, you're not a Catholic" than "If you don't believe in Evangelical doctrine, you are not a Christian".

In mass I was always taught that Jews, Muslims and Christians of all faiths do worship the same God. That's from different priests over a 18 year period. They tried their best to encourage ecumenical cooperation and not exclusion.



ITA.

Yes, this is what I have been taught by the Catholic church exactly.

[kijip]

I wouldn't be offended at all. I actually agree with the statement that "some Protestants aren't Christians". I think that we're defining the term "Christian" differently.

What is gained from excluding any denomination that believes that Christ died and rose again from Christianity? Who, any human anyways, gets to arbitrate this? I don't agree with the Southern Baptist Conference but they consider themselves Christians, so I consider them Christians.

If people don't think this is offensive, consider that I had to bar my mother's sisters and mother from calling her, quite literally on her death bed, to harass her that she was not going to be saved because she was a Catholic. The hospice screened out any and all calls from area code 407. A woman, who spent a lifetime working for the aid of others, dying from cancer being told by relatives whose primary link to a church is the flipping TV that she was unsaved because they don't understand her Catholic faith is appalling. It may seem all nice and simple on a message board but when coming from sister to dying sister, it is so much more than a different opinion. Then they have the audacity to call me and wax on about their painful loss. Stuff it. They basically believe she died because she was not Christian. Like true Christians are spared from cancer. Hateful stuff, eh?

FTR- I don't think they aren't Christians, even though their brand of Protestant faith is incomprehensible to me. However, being Christians does not prevent them from being jerks and bullies and unwelcome in my home or near my family.

[mamicka]

What is gained from excluding any denomination that believes that Christ died and rose again from Christianity? Who, any human anyways, gets to arbitrate this? I don't agree with the Southern Baptist Conference but they consider themselves Christians, so I consider them Christians.

There isn't anything "to be gained" by excluding denominations. I don't exclude any denominations. I also don't exclude people. My belief is that I can't determine the state of someone's Christianity regardless of their denomination. Your membership in any denomination does not a Christian make. I also don't agree with the Southern Baptist Conference - but I'm sure that many of the members of that denomination would be Christian & many would not be. It isn't my place to determine which ones are or are not Christians but I can't deny that I believe that there would be Southern Baptists in both groups.


If people don't think this is offensive, consider that I had to bar my mother's sisters and mother from calling her, quite literally on her death bed, to harass her that she was not going to be saved because she was a Catholic. The hospice screened out any and all calls from area code 407. A woman, who spent a lifetime working for the aid of others, dying from cancer being told by relatives whose primary link to a church is the flipping TV that she was unsaved because they don't understand her Catholic faith is appalling. It may seem all nice and simple on a message board but when coming from sister to dying sister, it is so much more than a different opinion. Then they have the audacity to call me and wax on about their painful loss. Stuff it. They basically believe she died because she was not Christian. Like true Christians are spared from cancer. Hateful stuff, eh? .

What you are describing *is* offensive. But it is not the same as saying "some Catholics aren't Christian" or "some Protestants aren't Christian". Never in a million bagillion years would I have that conversation with anyone nor do I agree with their opinion. I'm sorry that you all had to endure that.


FTR- I don't think they aren't Christians, even though their brand of Protestant faith is incomprehensible to me. However, being Christians does not prevent them from being jerks and bullies and unwelcome in my home or near my family.

I also don't know whether or not they are Christians. But their behavior is pretty appalling.

[niccig]

To the OP's question about whether you would send your child to a school run by a church that is different to your own. I agree with others about visiting the school. I would want to know how children of different religious beliefs are treated. You will also have to ask yourself how you will handle the questions you may get asked by your DC. If you tell DC that the teachers are "wrong", then DC can get confused and repeat that to the teachers. I think the tolerance needs to work both ways. Is the school tolerant of other religous beliefs and is your family tolerant of other religious beliefs. By family, I also mean your extended family.

[annex]

To the OP, if you are trying to figure out the differences among the various Catholic schools in your area to see which would be the least preachy/conservative of Catholicism, I would look for ones (if there are any still left) which have Franciscans or Jesuits running them. These orders are, ime, the most liberal, tending to teach social justice, and promoting charity work over indoctrination.

Any other lapsed Catholics able to offer similar guidance for how to sort of the different types of Catholic schools?

-Anne

[Nooknookmom]

We looked at the local Catholic schools when moving DD1 from private PS to Kindy. DH is Catholic and attended parochial school through 8th grade. I am not Catholic.

I don't think this has been brought up yet but at our local schools, there is a HUGE amount of expected parent involvement, not just for the school but the Church as well.

This deterred a lot of the people I know who were not Catholic from sending their kiddo's there.

The other religious schools in our area did not have as much pressure on the parents to jump in and get involved. I think mainly b/c these schools have kids from a lot of different churches attending and the Catholic schools have their chuch on site.

Make any sense???

[AnnieW625]

We looked at the local Catholic schools when moving DD1 from private PS to Kindy. DH is Catholic and attended parochial school through 8th grade. I am not Catholic.

I don't think this has been brought up yet but at our local schools, there is a HUGE amount of expected parent involvement, not just for the school but the Church as well.

This deterred a lot of the people I know who were not Catholic from sending their kiddo's there.

The other religious schools in our area did not have as much pressure on the parents to jump in and get involved. I think mainly b/c these schools have kids from a lot of different churches attending and the Catholic schools have their chuch on site.

Make any sense???

At our local parish school they do like the parents to volunteer or pay the value of the volunteer hours required each school year. I think it's how they keep the tuition low, keep parents connected to the school, and keep outside fund raising to a minimum. Our school has a parish festival every year that's a pretty good money maker, and does Bingo most weeks out of the year. Even though I know for me I'd much rather do the volunteer hours than have to pay extra money I think it's a good option for those who can't commit the extra required time to the school but still want their children to have a Catholic education.

[spanannie]

Around here, the only difference between a Catholic school and a Protestant school is that the non-Catholic children can not take communion. Of all the schools I looked at, religion in the schools is not really specific to one denomination, but is much more broad. So, my answer is, yes, I would be OK with sending my non-Catholic child to a Catholic school.

[Fairy]

Heck, I would send my Jewish child to a Catholic school if it meant a better education than he could get elsewhere. As it happens, DS is a Cashew anyway, but if I were living in the city of Chicago rather than the suburbs, I'd certainly have considered the Catholic schools, no question.

[ha98ed14]

I wouldn't be offended at all. I actually agree with the statement that "some Protestants aren't Christians". I think that we're defining the term "Christian" differently.

I think that the label "Christian" has come to mean different things in different contexts. In it's most general term, it is an umbrella for all belief systems and denominations that have Jesus Christ as part of their theology. In the Orthodox perspective, (and I think the Roman Catholic too, but I could be wrong) we consider a denomination to be Christian if it holds true the statements in the Nicene Creed, which is basically the profession of the Trinity, the death and resurrection of Christ, and if the denomination baptizes their members in the name of the Trinity. In the evangelical Christian denominations, they use the term "Christian" as a label for individual people to basically mean a true believer. So using the term that way, there *could* be pews of people sitting in Christian churches (Lutheran, Episcopal, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.) on a Sunday who were not Christian, in the minds of people who use the term Christian to mean true believer. I personally do not believe this, but I think that the conflict is stemming from the way different groups use the label "Christian."

[LexyLou]

Heck, I would send my Jewish child to a Catholic school if it meant a better education than he could get elsewhere. As it happens, DS is a Cashew anyway, but if I were living in the city of Chicago rather than the suburbs, I'd certainly have considered the Catholic schools, no question.

What's a Cashew?


Maybe it's because I'm Jewish (but I'm married to a man who went to Catholic school from preschool thru college and my MIL is a former nun...) but I don't see what would be SO different than say a Lutheran school vs. a Catholic school. Now a Jewish Day school vs Catholic school, that's a big difference.

Most Catholic schools are taught by the Jesuits who are the scholars and they pride themselves in having some of the best educations around, so I wouldn't be worried about the education factor.

[AnnieW625]

half Catholic+half Jewish=Cashew (I believe that is what Fairy was saying)

[Elilly]

I was raised Catholic but attended public school. My husband was raised as a Southern Baptist and has since converted to Catholicism. Our dd attends Catholic school.
To me, there are very distinct ways that Southern Baptists practice their religion versus the way that Catholics do (talking about the actual religious service here). For me, it was a culture shock to attend the Southern Baptist service compared to what I was used to. And vice versa for my DH in the beginning. Honestly, once you get past the different way that worship is practiced, I think that any Catholic would be pleased with a Protestant school and vice versa. The ethics, morales, etc are a shared value in both settings IMO.

[gatorsmom]

... distinction between Catholics and Christians. They both believe in Jesus so I am not sure how divergent their teachings would be.




You would be amazed! :)

ETA: As a devout cradle Catholic I agree with the pps who point out that Catholics predate Protestants by more than a millenium. But yeah, there can be some serious differences so the OP should do her homework when considering a Catholic school. And of course, all Catholic schools differ so that is something to research as well. All in all, I think Catholic schools are fantastic, but of course I'm biased. :)

[bubbaray]

I am so completely baffled by this and other similar threads.

I may be completely messing up my world history, but wasn't Catholicism the first of the organized Christian churches? Didn't the various Protestant churches spin off from the Catholic church (Reformation, Luther and all that)??

FWIW, *I* probably wouldn't send my girls to a Catholic school, at least not where we live now. We are Protestant and there are plenty of Protestant private schools in our area that I wouldn't even have the Catholic schools on my radar. If I lived somewhere where the only decent school was a Catholic school, I might consider it, but might still have some misgivings about the teachings -- because we aren't Catholic and aren't raising our girls to be Catholic, so why would I instruct them in that religion, KWIM?

And, FTR, I have personally had a Catholic Archbishop tell people at a wedding that everyone who wasn't Catholic was a sinner and going to hell -- as exact words as I can remember given that it was over 10 yrs ago. He went on and on for AT LEAST 30 minutes about the topic and telling people who weren't Catholic that they couldn't take Communion (FTR, any Protestant church I've attended allows anyone who believes in JC to take Communion). It was extremely uncomfortable, especially as this was the highest "ranking" Catholic in our metro area (who did the ceremony as a favor to the family). Catholics who I knew later told me that they were as uncomfortable with the ceremony as the Protestants. It was very weird as the couple getting married were NOT uncomfortable with the nature of the ceremony (I asked the bride later). anyway, the whole thing was uncomfortable.

[LexyLou]

half Catholic+half Jewish=Cashew (I believe that is what Fairy was saying)

That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. I LOVE it! I'm going to have to use that term for my girls. Right now we call them "Mexijews" since DH is also Mexican but I love the term Cashew.

[gatorsmom]

You believe this, and I respect that. Please understand - Catholics do not believe this. Your description of personal salvation is a Protestant viewpoint.

So that is the controversy over whether Catholics are Christian. If you believe that only people who believe in Jesus in the strictly Protestant manner that you describe as Christians, then Catholics are not Christian. But that is a pretty divisive viewpoint.

This is absolutely correct. And a very nice, nonconfrontatational way of putting it, if I may add.

[gatorsmom]

I grew up in the Catholic church. This is not what I was taught at any point in time. I don't say this undermine your experiences, only to say that Catholicism is not always this way. My recent church, the one we buried my mother out of was extremely willing to engage with the other denominations involved in memorializing and celebrating her life.

:yeahthat: I grew up in the Catholic Church. I went to Catholic schools including a Jesuit University (a particular order of Catholic priests known for their emphasis on academics) and met many, many other Catholics from around the country. We've had plenty of comparisons and I"ve never heard anything close to what Boolady is claiming.

[love_a_latte]

This is absolutely correct. And a very nice, nonconfrontatational way of putting it, if I may add.

Typing with a toddler in my lap, so I must be brief...

Regarding the first quote by wellyes, what is the Catholic description of personal salvation. I had many Catholic friends growing up, went to conformation classes a few times to check it out, am totally cool with Catholicism, and so forth. I don't exactly know what the difference in personal salvation would be. Not trying to annoy anyone, I am just rather curious.

[bubbaray]

Well, I have sat in the Catholic Church where my husband was a member for 35 years numerous times in the past 9 years and had the monsignor tell the entire congregation that, so perhaps someone should clue him in.


:yeahthat:

I don't want boolady to feel "jumped on", so I'm going to say again that her experience is similiar to mine at my former co-worker's wedding. The Archbishop (isn't that a particularly high-ranking Catholic -- that was what I was told by the bride -- he was the highest ranking Catholic in our area) made it VERY crystal clear that all of the non-Catholics were sinners and going to hell because they weren't Catholic.

I'm NOT judging individual Catholics, but yeah, if Catholics believe that non-Catholics can enter Heaven, then that particular Archibishop also need(ed) to be clued in.

[o_mom]

I did not have any intentions to offend any Catholics on this board. I'm very very sorry. We are a non-denominational family. The last thing I wanted to do was stir up a controversial religious topic. I am grateful to see how some responded because I think it gives me insight on what might happen within a religion-based school. I have to admit that I wanted to cry when I read how divided us, followers of Jesus, can be but that is another thread topic. I am very sorry if I unintentionally offended anyone.

THANK YOU to everyone for your advice and input. I will visit all the schools and hopefully ask all the right questions.


I'm guessing you didn't expect to come back to 70+ replies! :)

I think that as a non-denominational family, you need to look into what you believe, what the church you attend believes and how that lines up with the Catholic church teachings. Then see how much of this is going to come up in the school.

[gatorsmom]

Any other lapsed Catholics able to offer similar guidance for how to sort of the different types of Catholic schools?



Just curious, why does are you asking for a "lapsed" Catholic to give guidance? I've lived all over the world and become a member of different parishes everywhere I lived. But, I"m also familiar with the history of the Catholic church AS WELL AS the history of several other Protestant faiths. I"m also familiar with the doctrines and beliefs of other Protestant faiths as well as how some of their schools are run. Yet, I"m a devout Catholic living completely in the Catholic faith. Am I unqualified to give guidance?

[gatorsmom]

I may be completely messing up my world history, but wasn't Catholicism the first of the organized Christian churches? Didn't the various Protestant churches spin off from the Catholic church (Reformation, Luther and all that)??





This is accurate. And to respond to your wedding experience, i"m sorry that happened. But as for taking Protestants being refused communion, there is a very good reason for this. By taking communion, you are essentially saying you are in complete agreement with the doctrine and dogma of the Catholic church. The communion given during a Catholic mass is VERY, VERY different from the communion passed out at a Protestant service and is actually one of the most important aspects of our faith, if not THE most important part of our faith. Catholics consider it to be something very different than just "symbolic bread." I can understand how Protestants who think of it that way to be offended that they aren't offered bread and wine too!!! ;)

[annex]

Just curious, why does are you asking for a "lapsed" Catholic to give guidance?

Sorry, I didn't mean the wording to imply non-lapsed Catholics weren't qualified. But now I see it appears to read that way. I guess I was just worried my perceptions of which orders would be the most tolerant/liberal was out-dated. So I wanted to qualify my opinions with the info that I was a lapsed Catholic offering her opinion.

I was also hoping to guide the discussion back to useful info for the OP. Do you have any info to offer her on which Catholic schools (Franciscan, Jesuit, etc.) would be more open to students of all faiths?

-Anne

[Moneypenny]

And, FTR, I have personally had a Catholic Archbishop tell people at a wedding that everyone who wasn't Catholic was a sinner and going to hell -- as exact words as I can remember given that it was over 10 yrs ago. He went on and on for AT LEAST 30 minutes about the topic and telling people who weren't Catholic that they couldn't take Communion (FTR, any Protestant church I've attended allows anyone who believes in JC to take Communion). It was extremely uncomfortable, especially as this was the highest "ranking" Catholic in our metro area (who did the ceremony as a favor to the family). Catholics who I knew later told me that they were as uncomfortable with the ceremony as the Protestants. It was very weird as the couple getting married were NOT uncomfortable with the nature of the ceremony (I asked the bride later). anyway, the whole thing was uncomfortable.


I think we may have been at the same wedding. After the priest went on his rant, he actually made everyone who wasn't Catholic get up and wait in the church vestibule while he completed the ceremony because we weren't "worthy" of witnessing it. No one seemed at all perplexed by this except those of us who were waiting in the vestibule.

I've been to many Catholic ceremonies in my life (weddings and regular sermons) and the vast majority of them say pretty explicity that if you aren't Catholic you are going to hell. It doesn't bother me because I don't believe in hell, but it certainly has not been an uncommon experience in my life that Catholic teaching is *extremely* exclusionary. Of course, I'm not saying this to pick on the Catholic church because I know plenty of religions are exclusionary and I believe that is their right.

[gatorsmom]

Most Catholic schools are taught by the Jesuits who are the scholars and they pride themselves in having some of the best educations around, so I wouldn't be worried about the education factor.

Many Catholic schools are run by Jesuits, but I wouldn't say most. Many, many are also run by Franciscans, Dominicans, and Benedictines. All are excellent but the Jesuits have a particular affinity for and place an emphasis on philosophy.

[C99]

Not to add to what is probably already a worrisome decision, but yes, IMO, you should worry about sending your non-denom. kid to a Roman Catholic school.

DS1 attended an allegedly "Montessori" preschool within a RC K-8 school for one year before kindergarten. When I toured the school, the administration and teachers stressed the Montessori component and said that religion wasn't taught except in the Montessori inclusive-of-all way. And then they got a new principal before DS1 started and everything I was told went out the window. DS1 was required to go to mass weekly, listen to morning prayers over the P.A. system and -- the deal breaker for me -- participate in a pro-life fundraising campaign that was part of a parish initiative. As the child and spouse of 3 ex-RCs (all of whom also attended RC schools), I'm adamantly against my kids' indoctrination to RC dogma by RC school or any other organization. I'm worried about state funds being cut for DD's preschool next year, but I'd rather send her to park district preschool than pay for a RC education that I don't want and don't appreciate.

[schums]

Yeah, the Archbishop was WRONG. Completly, totally and inexcusably. The Roman Catholic Church believes that non-CHRISTIANS go to heaven, so his head is seriously up his rear saying that other Christian denoms aren't "saved".

[gatorsmom]

that Catholic teaching is *extremely* exclusionary.

Actual Catholic teaching is NOT exclusionary. What you have been hearing is NOT the teachings of the Catholic church and hasn't been for nearly 40 years, probably longer. What you heard to give you this opinion is the ramblings of some misinformed priests, and in bubbaray's case, archbishop. Bubbaray, if you'd pm me the Archbishops name, I'd love to write to him to ask him about his views on this subject. They are all human and make mistakes too sometimes.

[Fairy]

half Catholic+half Jewish=Cashew (I believe that is what Fairy was saying)

Yes, Catholic & Jew = Cashew :-)

[wellyes]

Regarding the first quote by wellyes, what is the Catholic description of personal salvation. I had many Catholic friends growing up, went to conformation classes a few times to check it out, am totally cool with Catholicism, and so forth. I don't exactly know what the difference in personal salvation would be. Not trying to annoy anyone, I am just rather curious.

To be very very very very general...

Evangelical Protestants believe that salvation is an ACT: accepting Jesus in your heart as your savior.
Catholics believe salvation is a PROCESS: baptism, confirmation, mass, communion, confession, prayer.

This is not to say that Catholics do not accept Christ as their savior. Or that Protestants do not get baptised, take communion, pray, or have a thoughtful relationship with God that involves atoning for sins. But it is a pretty big difference, theologically.

[love_a_latte]

Gotchya, thanks!

[kayte]

I just wanted to offer some sympathy to the OP. ... I think this thread went somewhere it should have never gone. I am sorry you seemed to have offended some with your vernacular. I was born to a Catholic family (with a Grandmother who attends mass every single day of her life with few exceptions), went to Catholic school, so I have a lot of experience with the Catholic faith and those who practice it and I found nothing offensive in your original title post--I completely understood what you were asking and I am sorry if others have upset you. You are looking out for your kiddo, just like all the rest of us here and you had a simple question. I am sorry the answer got off track and your original concern buried in the religious debate.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I attended Catholic church until I was 18 then off and on some afterwards and have never had any priests rant about other religions or go on about communion. I have never even heard other religions or differences discussed (which was one of the things that I wish I had heard).

Beth

[gatorsmom]

To be very very very very general...

Evangelical Protestants believe that salvation is an ACT: accepting Jesus in your heart as your savior.
Catholics believe salvation is a PROCESS: baptism, confirmation, mass, communion, confession, prayer.

This is not to say that Catholics do not accept Christ as their savior. Or that Protestants do not get baptised, take communion, pray, or have a thoughtful relationship with God that involves atoning for sins. But it is a pretty big difference, theologically.

To add to Wellyes' well-explained comment, salvation is much, much more than that for Catholics. And it's hard to explain because it means different things to different people. But I was taught (in Catholic schools) and believe that our souls start out as a blank slate and everything we do, good and bad, gets written there and shapes who we become. The more we follow the bible and the beliefs and traditions of the saints and the Catholic Church, (and in doing so coming to know, love and have faith in God the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit), the more joyful and complete our lives will be on earth and the better prepared for meeting God at the time of death (whenever that comes).

[ECMom]

I just wanted to offer some sympathy to the OP. ... I think this thread went somewhere it should have never gone. I am sorry you seemed to have offended some with your vernacular. I was born to a Catholic family (with a Grandmother who attends mass every single day of her life with few exceptions), went to Catholic school, so I have a lot of experience with the Catholic faith and those who practice it and I found nothing offensive in your original title post--I completely understood what you were asking and I am sorry if others have upset you. You are looking out for your kiddo, just like all the rest of us here and you had a simple question. I am sorry the answer got off track and your original concern buried in the religious debate.


I totally agree. I knew exactly what the OP meant. I'm sure many others did too. I'm not Catholic & I know very little about the catholic faith, so I could have made the same innocent mistake. Why it had to go down the path it did, I don't know. As I was reading, I was thinking of the sammyegail threads.

Back to your original question, yes, definitely visit the schools to get a feel. We are Presbyterian & my son goes to an Episcopal school. They have chapel every day for ~15 minutes. During this, they have a bibical lesson that teachs a value (e.g., treat one another nicely) and sing songs. Nothing ritual or heavy duty. Lots of non-Episcopalians at the school. We also have a Catholic school in our town that is very popular. Children of many of our friends go there - lots of non-Catholics as well. We didn't consider it because DS went to the Espicopal school for preschool & we just kept him there. Good luck!

[JamiMac]

[/quote]I've been to many Catholic ceremonies in my life (weddings and regular sermons) and the vast majority of them say pretty explicity that if you aren't Catholic you are going to hell. It doesn't bother me because I don't believe in hell, but it certainly has not been an uncommon experience in my life that Catholic teaching is *extremely* exclusionary. Of course, I'm not saying this to pick on the Catholic church because I know plenty of religions are exclusionary and I believe that is their right.[/quote]


I honestly have never heard this from any Catholic church. I can't believe some parishes can vary so much from one another, and I've attended churches all over the country.

[kijip]

Any priest teaching that only Catholics are going to heaven is directly ignoring Vatican II and the Holy See. Vatican II made significant changes to the church in the 1960s, changes which very much stand to this day. Vatican II acknowledges that salvation is not only open to all Christians, but that non-Christians are potentially included as well. (ie God being wiser than man can manifest himself to each person in any number of ways, not only though the church).

[purpleeyes]

I just wanted to offer some sympathy to the OP. ... I think this thread went somewhere it should have never gone. I am sorry you seemed to have offended some with your vernacular. I was born to a Catholic family (with a Grandmother who attends mass every single day of her life with few exceptions), went to Catholic school, so I have a lot of experience with the Catholic faith and those who practice it and I found nothing offensive in your original title post--I completely understood what you were asking and I am sorry if others have upset you. You are looking out for your kiddo, just like all the rest of us here and you had a simple question. I am sorry the answer got off track and your original concern buried in the religious debate.

:yeahthat:

Well said!!

[Fairy]

That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. I LOVE it! I'm going to have to use that term for my girls. Right now we call them "Mexijews" since DH is also Mexican but I love the term Cashew.

Mexijews?! I FLOVE this. I absolutely think this is adorable!

There are actually alot of Hispanic Jews out there.Bigger population tout there than I knew until recently.

[dogmom]

Late to the party (ha, ha!)

To address the original point, what I have noticed is Catholic Schools in areas that have less stellar public schools and have a higher % of non-Catholic students, tend to be more welcoming of religious diversity. So I would ask what the Catholic/non Catholic ratios is. In areas with good public schools people tend to send their kids their because the ALWAYS think a Catholic School is better.

And as far as all the other comments, I would HIGHLY recommend reading Karen Armstrong's book, "A History of God". Might help straighten out some history around these different labels.

[mamicka]

And as far as all the other comments, I would HIGHLY recommend reading Karen Armstrong's book, "A History of God". Might help straighten out some history around these different labels.

I haven't read anything in this thread that indicates that anyone's knowledge of church history is mixed-up.

[wellyes]

I've been to many Catholic ceremonies in my life (weddings and regular sermons) and the vast majority of them say pretty explicity that if you aren't Catholic you are going to hell.

At a wedding? At more than one wedding? Really? I'm sorry but I find that really hard to believe. Catholics are pretty light on the fire and brimstone. In many, many years of attending Catholic mass I have heard nearly nothing about hell for anyone. I've had a couple of academically-tinged "history of our understanding of the devil" or "is the devil a metaphor?" sermons, but that's it.

[newnana]

At a wedding? At more than one wedding? Really? I'm sorry but I find that really hard to believe. Catholics are pretty light on the fire and brimstone. In many, many years of attending Catholic mass I have heard nearly nothing about hell for anyone. I've had a couple of academically-tinged "history of our understanding of the devil" or "is the devil a metaphor?" sermons, but that's it.


Nope, this is my experience as well. I've been to easily 20 different Catholic weddings in different parishes and this going to hell message has been clearly conveyed at every one. Doesn't really lend well to the the celebratory message of the wedding.

And to the OP, I get it. We live in a very Catholic area of the country and the majority of the private schools here are Catholic ones. All of the ones we have researched are heavy on Catholicism in the teachings of the school with mass every day and the intention to convert the kids that go there that aren't Catholic. We aren't comfortable with that for our family, so we aren't sending DD to any of those.

But it's not just because of the specific religous teachings at those schools, it's also because I didn't find the curriculum at any of the schools any better than the public schools I looked at. Most of the C schools taught by rote memorization, had 30+ kids per class (so 30:1 ratio) and do not foster a love of learning. Additionaly, there are funding issues. They require "donations" in addition to the tuition and require the students to x-number of fund raisers and do not offer all the additional programs that some families need/want. That includes gifted programs, help particular areas, music, sports, you name it.

If we are paying for an education, then I actually expect it to exceed that of the public school that would be free. And if the two are close in outcomes, then I would go public and then supplement at home or with additional programs. If the C school had a curriculum and programs that did exceed the public by a noticable amount, then I might consider the C school depending on what type of religous program that school has and my family's beliefs.

We are blessed that we also have some independent private schools in the area. They cost way too much, but we think the investment now is worth it for us. They have very high academics, the one we have selected has no annual giving and the kids don't do any fundraisers. All of the kids go to their top choice schools, the ratio of students to teachers is 8:1, etc. It meets our needs, and we are comfortable with it, but if we lived in a better school district, free would look a whole lot better :)

Way too wordy. Sorry. I'm sleep deprived. But it boils down to this: ANY school you look at for your child, you have to investigate really well. And then go into it with the expectation as another post above said very well- given any administration changes, the entire demeanor of the school can change. This is true for public as well. No Child Left Behind, anyone?

Good luck with your decision, I know how hard it is!

[JamiMac]

At a wedding? At more than one wedding? Really? I'm sorry but I find that really hard to believe. Catholics are pretty light on the fire and brimstone. In many, many years of attending Catholic mass I have heard nearly nothing about hell for anyone. I've had a couple of academically-tinged "history of our understanding of the devil" or "is the devil a metaphor?" sermons, but that's it.

:yeahthat:
Exactly!

[strollerqueen]

I was never taught as a Catholic child that any other Christian children were not Christians. I find it offensive, but moreover just plain sad, that others deem it ok to determine if Catholics are Christians at all. Offensive and frankly a little cruel. And I say this as someone who is not choosing to remain active in the Catholic church at this time. We attend an open and affirming American Baptist church with a minister we like personally very much.

Protestant denominations branched off from the Catholic church and then from each other, there is no Protestant denomination as old as the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

It seems there is still a lot of anti-Catholic bigotry in this country. It wasn't *that* long ago that people said JFK would never be elected president of the US, because he was Catholic. It seems like you have personally experienced this prejudice, and I am so very sorry. The other point I want to make is that we consider it a privilege for my DD to go to Catholic school. There is a long waiting list, and she had to take many tests before she could get accepted. Of course there is a huge emphasis on the Catholic religion, um, it is a Catholic school. I was in the office one day when a woman came in to register her child. She told the secretary that she didn't want her child to participate in any religious discussions, or go to church, because she wasn't Catholic. The secretary tried to explain that wouldn't be possible, and she kept arguing. Then I asked her why she just didn't go to a school that taught her religion, and she said "it wasn't as good." I guess the whole thing offends me. I wouldn't send my child to a school in which I didn't agree with the religion, and then expect the school to bend to accommodate my child. Kinda' like when I have lived in other countries, I didn't expect people to have to speak English to accommodate me. And no, I don't think there are any non-Catholics in DD's class, because admittance priority is given to parishioners (Catholics who attend that church.)

[dogmom]

I haven't read anything in this thread that indicates that anyone's knowledge of church history is mixed-up.

Hmmm...well, I suggested people read "A History of God" to straighten out the history around different labels. Which is not to say someone mistook church history. Church history can been a strictly "the protestants broke off from the catholics at this time because of these issues." The labels I'm talking about have to do with words and concepts like saved, personal relationship with god, etc. Karen Armstrong's book actually deals in both a theological and historical perspective of the development of the concept of god in the three major religions (Judiasm/Christianity/Islam) that have the same source of monotheisitic concept. I'm making the book sound non-spiritual, but it really isn't. I found her writing to be highly respective of religious beliefs, and she draws heavily on biblical passages. And being the geek that I am I could read hundreds of pages of the theological arguments of the early church. I realize that this touchy area, because some people assume if you talk about the history of the concept of god in a religious sect you may be challenging their notion of god, which I don't think the book does. It was a previous poster's comment about the Russian/Greek branch of Christianity that made me think of the book. Because it reminded be of the East/West differences in how God/Trinity and the personal relationship with god.

Having said that, I think some previous comments were exactly factually wrong, but may have lacked nuance and fullness, which this mode of communication does not lend itself to.