I have a question and I don't want to offend.

[BabyMine]

I wrote the post awhile back about how to be pc. I also wrote my experience where I was called racist.

http://www.windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=328459

I don't mean to offend anyone and I am sorry if what I write rubs anyone the wrong way.

I have a question about how to describe a race.

I hear people say black or african american. Then I read about Obama at the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's 100th convention.

Isn't the word colored derogitory? I don't understand african american becasue aren't we all amercians. I never see mexican american or cuban american. I also don't know if the word black is better or worse than african american.

Then there are some people that are offended about being called Asian. How do you know the appropriate description of a race?

Please be nice. I hope I communicated my question in a way that I don't offend anyone.

[brittone2]

I wrote the post awhile back about how to be pc. I also wrote my experience where I was called racist.

http://www.windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=328459

I don't mean to offend anyone and I am sorry if what I write rubs anyone the wrong way.

I have a question about how to describe a race.

I hear people say black or african american. Then I read about Obama at the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's 100th convention.

Isn't the word colored derogitory? I don't understand african american becasue aren't we all amercians. I never see mexican american or cuban american. I also don't know if the word black is better or worse than african american.

Then there are some people that are offended about being called Asian. How do you know the appropriate description of a race?

Please be nice. I hope I communicated my question in a way that I don't offend anyone.

Hmmm... I hear other groups described as Asian Americans, Mexican Americans, etc. pretty regularly.

I am sure the NAACP's name has historical significance to that group. No, I would never call someone who is African American "colored" though. I don't say black either, personally.

I've never heard of "Asian" being offensive, but perhaps someone can enlighten me there? I know my dad still occasionally uses the term "Oriental" and I gently prod him that that term is no longer PC.

I'll leave it there and see what everyone else says :)

[strollerqueen]

Yes, around here a lot of people call themselves "Mexican Americans, Chinese Americans, Italian Americans," etc. I refer to myself as "Irish American."

"Colored" is an old term, that a lot of people find offensive. You should not use it.

Some of my friends call themselves black, but if you don't know the person well, it is best to use the term "African American".

I have not heard "Asian" was considered derogatory. Maybe you should use "Asian American." But I know that "Oriental" is offensive.

[randomkid]

I work with a hugely diverse population. Honestly, I'm also not sure of how to refer to African Americans because, as you said, they are not all American and many of them do not refer to themselves using that term. I do know my friends who are AA or black, usually refer to other AAs as "black". I really think society has muddied it and now it is uncomfortable to use the term black. Caucasians are referred to as white and for some reason, this has not become an issue. I don't see black or white as a derogatory term, it's simply a description of skin color. When they are not American, they are usually referred to by where they are from - Jamaican, Haitian, etc.

IME, the term Asian is not used, but this may depend on regional terminology. Again, by the country of origin - South Korean, Filipino, etc. Other races are also referred to by country of origin - Puerto Rican, Columbian, Indian, etc. However, to avoid confusion, I find most people say "She is from India" to avoid confusion with American Indian.

FWIW, and as a cute aside, when my stepdaughters were little, I think they said it best. When trying to describe a friend, they would say "She has brown skin". Race is not WHO you are, but simply where you are from or the color of your skin.

ETA: I had this conversation with someone I work with who is black. Someone used the term African American and she laughed at them. She is middle-aged and hates the term African American. She thinks it ridiculous and said "We are black!" I think she was more offended by the idea that the term black would be offensive. She is proud of her race and doesn't want it made into a politically correct word.

[TwinFoxes]

African-American is the preferred term. A lot of people still say black, but I'd just stick to African-American if I were you. Don't call anyone "colored" unless you have a time machine! PP is correct that the NAACP has a historical signifcance. The United Negro College Fund still exists, but I wouldn't recommend you call someone a Negro.

No offense, but where do you live that you haven't heard Mexican-American? That's surprising to me.

I've never heard of anyone finding Asian offensive either, unless maybe they preferred Asian-American. If I knew what country in Asia a person's ancestry was from I'd probably use that, Korean-American vs just Asian.

Keep in mind you don't always have to use a person's race. My DHs cousns do that. They can't talk about anything without mentioning the person's race. Even in the most mundane circumstances. Things like "I didn't have quarters so I asked this black guy for change". It's annoying. (not saying you do that...I just went off on a tangent).

ETA: when I said "preferred" term I should have said most accepted. Obviously some people prefer other terms. I think African-American is least likely to offend.

ETAA: I realize I should mention that I'm black. I tend to say black, but still think African-American is best if you don't know what the person refers to him/herself as.

[shoxie]

I had this conversation with someone I work with who is black. Someone used the term African American and she laughed at them. She is middle-aged and hates the term African American. She thinks it ridiculous and said "We are black!" I think she was more offended by the idea that the term black would be offensive. She is proud of her race and doesn't want it made into a politically correct word.

I also worked with a couple of people who had the same reaction. They do not like people using the term African American to describe them and instead refer to themselves as black. I'm in the NYC area and most people here do not add the "-American" to their nationality. They'll just say they're Italian, Polish, Indian, Chinese, Pakistani, what-have-you. I don't remember the last time I've heard someone refer to themselves as xxxxx-American vs. just xxxxx. It must be a regional issue, I guess.

I also have not heard of Asian being taken the wrong way - but again, there may be regional issues here. Negro and colored are no-nos as is Oriental. Oriental is used to describe objects not people - as in "Oriental rug."

In any case, I do use the term black at times and African American at times. I try to feel out the situation, but it's difficult and I think, unnecessarily so. But, better not to hurt someone's feelings.

[ett]

I'm Asian and I don't have a problem with being called Asians, though it is fairly common to use the term Asian Americans here.

[bigpassport]

African-American is the preferred term. A lot of people still say black, but I'd just stick to African-American if I were you.

I normally try to say African-American, especially when I am around pc folks. But then I don't know what to call a "black" (for lack of a better word) person who isn't from the US. What is the pc term for a "black" person who is from, say, Britain? This question is sincere, not sarcastic.

[happymom]

I am a preschool teacher for mostly black children. My assistant is black as well. I remember when I first started working there, I was unsure of which term to use. I did not want to offend my assistant (or anyone else) in any way obviously. So I just followed her lead, which was to use the word "black". I've never heard her say "African American". But if I was in a situation where I was unsure, I'd defintely go with AA. Less chance of offending anyone I think.

[dcmom2b3]

I have a question about how to describe a race.

I hear people say black or african american. Then I read about Obama at the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's 100th convention.

Isn't the word colored derogitory? I don't understand african american becasue aren't we all amercians. I never see mexican american or cuban american. I also don't know if the word black is better or worse than african american.

:hug::love2::hug:

Jenn, as an African-American/black/brown/whatever-you-want-to-call-me woman, thank you so much for your kindness and sensitivity and caring enough about others to want to get this right. Honestly, I think it's that mindset that's important -- and that means the world to me -- more so than any particular term that you use. We each are individuals, so it's impossible to generalize, but I'd echo other posters in saying that AA is probably the "safest" term to use as a default, though others may feel differently.

FWIW, I think of myself as "black," (whatever that means) but understand that AA may be preferred by some simply b/c it distinguishes those of us of american heritage (descendants of slaves/early settlers) from those who are more recent immigrants from Africa. The "C" in NAACP is an anachronism and I think is maintained out of a sense of history more than anything else --if that organization were founded today, I don't know what term they'd use, but I can tell you, "colored" isn't one of them.

I'd read your PC post, and meant to respond but it slipped past me in the day-to-day blur that all parents, regardless of race, have in common. ;) FTR though, feel free to PM me with anything you'd like my take on. I can tell that you're good people, and I'm so sorry that the person you encountered in the pharmacy made you doubt for one minute that a black person couldn't see that.

Again, :hug::hug: my sister.

[strollerqueen]

I normally try to say African-American, especially when I am around pc folks. But then I don't know what to call a "black" (for lack of a better word) person who isn't from the US. What is the pc term for a "black" person who is from, say, Britain? This question is sincere, not sarcastic.

British. ;)

[AngelaS]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?

My dh is a 3rd generation Japanese American. If you ask him what his nationality is, he'll tell you American. He checks "other" on forms that ask for his nationality and writes in "American" because that's what he is.

There are some black Americans whose families have been in this country for way more than 3 generations. Why do they still need to connect themselves with Africa? Most of them weren't born there--they were born in America!

I don't get it. Perhaps if we were just all "Americans" in various shades of brown, we'd get along better.

[dcmom2b3]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?

My dh is a 3rd generation Japanese American. If you ask him what his nationality is, he'll tell you American. He checks "other" on forms that ask for his nationality and writes in "American" because that's what he is.

There are some black Americans whose families have been in this country for way more than 3 generations. Why do they still need to connect themselves with Africa? Most of them weren't born there--they were born in America!

I don't get it. Perhaps if we were just all "Americans" in various shades of brown, we'd get along better.

Ever been in Boston or Chicago on St. Patrick's Day? Would you tell those folks to stop celebrating their Irish heritage and just be American?

May I suggest that if all Americans accepted the choices and preferences of other Americans as to what they'd like to be called and who and what they'd like to identify with then THAT would help us get along better. Your questioning why "they" (3rd generation african-americans) would "need" to identify with africa is a bit off putting, to say the least.

No time to address that now, though. Maybe later.

[egoldber]

I have always understood it to be a cultural reference....African American, Japanese American, Mexican American, etc. referring to the experience of being from that culture in America. Which is a different experience from being of that culture in other places.

But it can get confusing since ethnicities can extend across race and people of multi-racial backgrounds may identify with more than one racial/cultural/ethnic heritage.

We are grappling with this at work these days, trying to figure out how to do statistical analyses for patterns of healthcare usage by racial and ethnic identifiers, when the whole idea of a race or an ethnicity is somewhat of an artificial distinction imposed on people by governmental checkboxes.

ETA: On NPR driving into work this morning I was listening to a speech that Obama gave yesterday in which he referred to being black and to being African American. And I thought of this thread. ;)

[ljackson]

I'm glad I read this thread - I did not realize that the word Oriental is offensive and certainly would not want to offend anyone. I think in Britain it would be used (although I may be out of date with this having not lived there for a few years) just because if you say Asian the assumption would be that the person was from India, Bangladesh or Pakistan as there are so many more people from that that part of Asia in Britain. Obviously if you know that the person is Japanese, or whatever, you just say that.

[TwinFoxes]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?
(SNIP)
I don't get it. Perhaps if we were just all "Americans" in various shades of brown, we'd get along better.


Because clearly there have been no racial problems in Germany. And Poland has a lot of blacks who live there.


My dh is a 3rd generation Japanese American. If you ask him what his nationality is, he'll tell you American. He checks "other" on forms that ask for his nationality and writes in "American" because that's what he is.


Good for him. I'm glad that makes him happy. Why does it annoy you what other people do? I agree with DCmom2be3, respecting other people's choices would help us all to get along better.

[mamicka]

Because clearly there have been no racial problems in Germany. And Poland has a lot of blacks who live there.

:47: Oh my.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I have been wondering too whether to use black vs African American because as someone once pointed out in either something I read or watched that not every black person is from Africa. Maybe at the end of their family line they were but they identify more with another nationality. So, I tend to choose my words based on who I am talking to. At ds1's school, which is about 40% African American, it is common to hear black be used most commonly.

Beth

[TwinFoxes]

I normally try to say African-American, especially when I am around pc folks. But then I don't know what to call a "black" (for lack of a better word) person who isn't from the US. What is the pc term for a "black" person who is from, say, Britain? This question is sincere, not sarcastic.

I lived in London for a bit, and know a few people here who are British and black. They say black. But like Strollerqueen says, they also call themselves British.

PPs mentioned that they have friends who call themselves black. I look at it this way. If you went with a friend to the National Conference of Men Called William, but your friend goes by Willie, you wouldn't automatically start calling people Willie. Calling them William would be "safe" even if it turns out that's not what they call themselves.

Not a perfect analogy I know ;)

[KrisM]

Ever been in Boston or Chicago on St. Patrick's Day? Would you tell those folks to stop celebrating their Irish heritage and just be American?

May I suggest that if all Americans accepted the choices and preferences of other Americans as to what they'd like to be called and who and what they'd like to identify with then THAT would help us get along better. Your questioning why "they" (3rd generation african-americans) would "need" to identify with africa is a bit off putting, to say the least.

No time to address that now, though. Maybe later.

Just curious about the XX-American references. I have no problem with people continuing their culture here and calling themselves African American, German American, etc.

Do you know if this is the case other places? I haven't been out of the country in a really long time and wonder, if I moved to Germany, would people call me an American-German? Are there Polish-Germans and African-Germans? Or, is it an American thing?

[KrisM]

African-American is the preferred term.

Keep in mind you don't always have to use a person's race. My DHs cousns do that. They can't talk about anything without mentioning the person's race. Even in the most mundane circumstances. Things like "I didn't have quarters so I asked this black guy for change". It's annoying. (not saying you do that...I just went off on a tangent).



I generally don't talk about the person's race because usually it just doesn't matter. But, if African-American is preferred, how do you know they're American? That's what always is my sticking point and why I would say black. Maybe they're Jamaican or from England.

[TwinFoxes]

I generally don't talk about the person's race because usually it just doesn't matter. But, if African-American is preferred, how do you know they're American? That's what always is my sticking point and why I would say black. Maybe they're Jamaican or from England.

I would say it's playing the percentages. Maybe they're from Jamaica or Britain, but chances are they're not. And if you're talking to the person you'd probably picked up on an accent. And if you're talking about the person from a distance, I don't think it would be a problem to say African-American and then find out later they're not American.

I have a friend who's from London, who's bi-racial, but has become a US citizen. :dizzy:

Honestly, I don't think most people would get mad either way. But I still think the safest term is African-American.

[Ceepa]

I use the term black rather than African-American because not everyone idenitifies themselves with African heritage.

[jenny]

I'm Asian and I don't care if you call me Asian or Asian American and if you can figure out by looking at me that I'm Korean, I don't mind if you call me Korean or Korean American :D

People have called me Oriental too.

I don't get offended b/c I understand that it can get confusing with all of the PC stuff that's out there and I try to take the underlying tone rather than the word used. KWIM?

Like this sweet woman in her 60s from Missouri once referred to me as Oriental...I just let it go b/c I knew she didn't mean it to be offensive.

I'd like to think that for the most part, that people take your tone rather than the word used. I have a African-American/black friend and I go back and forth on what I call her and I use the word Caucasian and white interchangeable too.

I do get annoyed though about what a PP mentioned in how we focus so much on a person's race in this country that if they are non-white, we are always eager to point it out. Like in the news media, whenever it's a non-white person who has committed a crime, they also point it out...that annoys me.

[mommylamb]

I normally try to say African-American, especially when I am around pc folks. But then I don't know what to call a "black" (for lack of a better word) person who isn't from the US. What is the pc term for a "black" person who is from, say, Britain? This question is sincere, not sarcastic.

My niece is British. Her father is black and her mother is white. In my last job, I had a picture of her up on my wall and a co-worker came in one day and asked me who the little girl was. Now, I'm white, so it really threw her for a loop when I said "that's my niece." She stood there stammering and said, "So, she's African American?" and I said, "No, she's British." (This woman knew my husband's family is all in England). The co-worker was soooo confused!

In this country, I usually use both African American and black interchangeably, unless I know someone is from another country. For example, Haitian Americans.

[wellyes]

PPs mentioned that they have friends who call themselves black. I look at it this way. If you went with a friend to the National Conference of Men Called William, but your friend goes by Willie, you wouldn't automatically start calling people Willie. Calling them William would be "safe" even if it turns out that's not what they call themselves.

Nice!

Do you know if this is the case other places? I haven't been out of the country in a really long time and wonder, if I moved to Germany, would people call me an American-German? Are there Polish-Germans and African-Germans? Or, is it an American thing?

Nope, America is really a unique 'tossed salad' in that manner.


I do get annoyed though about what a PP mentioned in how we focus so much on a person's race in this country that if they are non-white, we are always eager to point it out. Like in the news media, whenever it's a non-white person who has committed a crime, they also point it out...that annoys me.

Oh yeah. A little OT I think the Sotomayer hearings have really exposed a shocking amount of "white man as normative" ideology. From Eugene Robinson's column (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302605.html?hpid=opinionsbox1):
"whiteness and maleness are not themselves facets of a distinct identity. Being white and male is seen instead as a neutral condition, the natural order of things. Any 'identity'—black, brown, female, gay, whatever—has to be judged against this supposedly 'objective' standard."

[mommylamb]

I'm glad I read this thread - I did not realize that the word Oriental is offensive and certainly would not want to offend anyone. I think in Britain it would be used (although I may be out of date with this having not lived there for a few years) just because if you say Asian the assumption would be that the person was from India, Bangladesh or Pakistan as there are so many more people from that that part of Asia in Britain. Obviously if you know that the person is Japanese, or whatever, you just say that.

My experience from living in England for a while is that they use Asian to mean Indian, Bangladeshi or Pakistani, and they use East Asian to refer to someone who is from China, Japan, Korea, etc.

My British husband almost fell out of his chair a few years back when Trent Lott said something about the cooperation the US was getting from the "Pakis" to refer to Pakistanis. That's a very very offensive term in England. Kind of akin to the N word here.

[Tracey]

I don't know a single black person that calls themselves or others "African-American". I have only heard white people use that term or people in some offical capacity like a formal lecture or news article. In real life, I don't know anybody who wants to be called African American. Something about that term bothers me. Black people are Americans who helped build this country from the very beginning. Why aren't the blacks in Britain called African-British?

Honestly, the only time the term black is even used is when someone is specifically talking about race. When describing someone it's usually light-skinned, dark-skinned, and then something about his/her hair or facial features.

So, in my situation I use black. In a formal situation, talking to a white person from somewhere else, or in a city without many black people I'd use African American.

ETA: I have no problem with people who identify themselves as African American. I have a problem with that term being put on people who do not culturally identify themselves with Africa. Something about it feels forced...like you have to be put in a category because you are not white and only white people can be called just "Americans".

[brittone2]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?

My dh is a 3rd generation Japanese American. If you ask him what his nationality is, he'll tell you American. He checks "other" on forms that ask for his nationality and writes in "American" because that's what he is.

There are some black Americans whose families have been in this country for way more than 3 generations. Why do they still need to connect themselves with Africa? Most of them weren't born there--they were born in America!

I don't get it. Perhaps if we were just all "Americans" in various shades of brown, we'd get along better.

I'm not African American, and I certainly can't speak for any one group as a whole, so I'm going with my gut on this...

Many African Americans did not leave their homeland voluntarily. (edited to fix) Their ancestors were forced from their homes, from their countries, from their continent. For that reason alone, it seems to me that anyone who chooses identify as African American certainly has every reason to. (not that I feel anyone from any ethnic, racial, etc. group has to justify their reason for wanting to be identified a certain way :) )

[BabyMine]

I had a friend who hated being called Asian. He said he liked to be called Japanese. He said when you call a person and Asian than you are saying they all look the same. He was mad that people would think he was Chinese. Here in Tampa, FL my friends went by Puerto Rican or Cuban. Around here I have never heard of XXX-American. One of the main reasons this was asked was an article about President Obama. In the article they kept switching between Black and AA.

[dcmom2b3]

Just curious about the XX-American references. I have no problem with people continuing their culture here and calling themselves African American, German American, etc.

Do you know if this is the case other places? I haven't been out of the country in a really long time and wonder, if I moved to Germany, would people call me an American-German? Are there Polish-Germans and African-Germans? Or, is it an American thing?

I think the US is unique in this way. It’s my sense that the US is much more heterogeneous (in terms of our population’s racial and ethnic make-up) than many (if not most) other countries. That fact alone shapes our culture in ways that wouldn’t pertain in Germany or Poland.

Also, it’s my understanding that in some European countries it isn’t legal to collect, compile or even ask about all sorts of personal data, including political, religious, racial and ethic origin information (at least this is true in France but I think that other European nations have similar laws). It was explained to me that these extremely strict privacy laws were enacted post-WWII, in reaction to the Nazi regime’s targeting of people based on such personal characteristics. It’s my sense that these laws, as well as the awful history that compelled them, would make it unlikely that they would employ the same kinds of labels that we do here in the US.

[Fairy]

Ever been in Boston or Chicago on St. Patrick's Day? Would you tell those folks to stop celebrating their Irish heritage and just be American?


Dude, I thought everyone was Irish on St. Patrick's Day! Or maybe it's just we Chicagoan's here that put aside our totally other heritages and say, "Have green beer, will travel to St. Patrick's Day Parade and wish ye top o'the mornin' ... BURP."

Hee! A little levity . . . (where's the 'I'm piss drunk' smiley?)

[BabyMine]

Here is the article I was reading. I pulled out a couple examples

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31942049/ns/politics-white_house

." The nation's first black president bluntly warned, though, that racial barriers persist.

Obama's remarks, steeped in his personal biography as the son of a white mother from Kansas and black father from Kenya,

He said that the African-American child is about five times as likely as a white child to be sent to jail.

The president said that in the current down economy, blacks are suffering high unemployment and are afflicted with more diseases but are less likely to own health insurance. He said that the African-American child is about five times as likely as a white child to be sent to jail.

This is why I am confused.

[Corie]

I do get annoyed though about what a PP mentioned in how we focus so much on a person's race in this country that if they are non-white, we are always eager to point it out. Like in the news media, whenever it's a non-white person who has committed a crime, they also point it out...that annoys me.


Completely off-topic but your post brings up another issue that bothers me.
So I wanted to post.

I get bothered by the news media or articles, etc., that will say, "Her adopted
daughter..." "Her adopted son"

Why is there a need to even mention the word 'adopted'?

Why can't they just say, "Her daughter" or "Her son" ?


Sorry to interrupt.

[egoldber]

This is why I am confused.

To me, this just says that either is a generally socially acceptable term. I use them interchangeably except when referring to a person who is black, but not American. But it may be the custom in a particular region to use one term or another.

[Fairy]

Completely off-topic but your post brings up another issue that bothers me.
So I wanted to post.

I get bothered by the news media or articles, etc., that will say, "Her adopted
daughter..." "Her adopted son"

Why is there a need to even mention the word 'adopted'?

Why can't they just say, "Her daughter" or "Her son" ?


Sorry to interrupt.

It is off-topic, but I have to reply, cuz I really really hate this, too. When I hear it, it seriously sours my mood for the rest of the day. Making it an adjective in this way, to me seems to be the media's way of intending to somehow "lessen" the familial ownership or tie. There is no adoption in my family, so I don't have a personal sensitivity toward this, I just have a universal IT'S WRONG sensitivity toward it.

[jenny]

Here is the article I was reading. I pulled out a couple examples

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31942049/ns/politics-white_house

." The nation's first black president bluntly warned, though, that racial barriers persist.

Obama's remarks, steeped in his personal biography as the son of a white mother from Kansas and black father from Kenya,

He said that the African-American child is about five times as likely as a white child to be sent to jail.

The president said that in the current down economy, blacks are suffering high unemployment and are afflicted with more diseases but are less likely to own health insurance. He said that the African-American child is about five times as likely as a white child to be sent to jail.

This is why I am confused.

Well as a journalist, I can tell you that this story was written by the Associated Press (AP) and according to the AP style book, the preferred term to use is black. That is why you see black written so many times.

As far as using the term African-American, it might have been used because President Obama used it in his phrasing, so they were trying to stick with what he said. KWIM?

[jenny]

It is off-topic, but I have to reply, cuz I really really hate this, too. When I hear it, it seriously sours my mood for the rest of the day. Making it an adjective in this way, to me seems to be the media's way of intending to somehow "lessen" the familial ownership or tie. There is no adoption in my family, so I don't have a personal sensitivity toward this, I just have a universal IT'S WRONG sensitivity toward it.

I hate that too. My editor put the word "adopted daughter" in a story that we ran and it drove me nuts.

[BabyMine]

Completely off-topic but your post brings up another issue that bothers me.
So I wanted to post.

I get bothered by the news media or articles, etc., that will say, "Her adopted
daughter..." "Her adopted son"

Why is there a need to even mention the word 'adopted'?

Why can't they just say, "Her daughter" or "Her son" ?


Sorry to interrupt.


It bugs me also. I also cringe, like PP pointed out, when in news reports about a black person doing something. They always identify the race.

[Fairy]

I say black most of the time, and I rarely say African American. However, I am congnizant enough to know that I am not in control of what is acceptable and would say African American, but none of my black friends use that descriptor, which is why I continue to say black.

Ya know what's interesting to me is that Mexican has become a bad word. I say somewhat facetiously, when did a real ethnicity and, in fact, nationality, become a racial slur? I say "facetiously" because I know why. Because the intent behind using that descriptor is often discriminatory. And it's a terrible thing that I take personal offense at. We have ALOT of landscaping companies here in the northern suburbs of Chicago, and alot of them are owned by Hispanic folks, mostly Mexican I would guess. I met a new neighbor earlier this year, and she has a rather large lot. I asked if she's doing her own mowing, cuz I love my landscaper, and she said, oh, no I've got my Mexican doing it. I was so offended. My Mexican?! Is that like your Jew who does your dentist work? Or your Lithuanian doing your, I dunno, taxes? How 'bout your Jamaican doing your nails? I just looked at her, and she realized she said the wrong thing, and I abruptly ended teh conversation and drove away. I have not stoppd to chat with her since. But my point is that a perfectly valid nationality and ethnic identity has been marginalized by that particular person (and by many others) due to the intent behind the word. And that really bothers me.

We have tried very hard to show DS that people are people first, and what they look like second. So, if I'm trying to point out someone to DS, and they're black, instead of saying, "the black person" or "the Asian girl," I try to use a different thing to single them out, like "the girl with the pretty dress on" or "the boy with the light up shoes" so that he doesn't automatically see skin color and eye shape, etc., as defining characteristics of a person. At age 4, I've never once heard DS reference anyone by their ethnic or racial differences, so I think so far it's working? He did, however, once refer to a girls' really funny hair. I said, what funny hair? ready to explain to him that everyone's hair is different. And he pointed to a teenager whose hair was dyed blue :-)

ETA --> for truly crappy grammar.

[Snow mom]

We have tried very hard to show DS that people are people first, and what they look like second. So, if I'm trying to point out someone to DS, and they're black, instead of saying, "the black person" or "the Asian girl," I try to use a different thing to single them out, like "the girl with the pretty dress on" or "the boy with the light up shoes" so that he doesn't automatically see skin color and eye shape, etc., as defining characteristics of a person. At age 4, I've never once heard DS reference anyone by their ethnic or racial differences, so I think so far it's working? He did, however, once refer to a girls' really funny hair. I said, what funny hair? ready to explain to him that everyone's hair is different. And he pointed to a teenager whose hair was dyed blue :-)

I think this is really nice, Fairy. I'll tuck it into my list of modeling behavior.

[BabyMine]

Fairy, you got me thinking ( a rarity :D)

I remember watching a report about race. A person they interviewed was from Spain. He said something about why he hates being called Hispanic. He didn't want people to think he came from Mexico. He said he was Spanish. So what is correct? There are also Latinos. Are Latinos also Hispanic/Spanish? I know there are different dialects of the Spanish language but I am just talking about the descrption.

[poppy]

I think when in doubt, just ask (preferably someone you know).

I don't mind when people ask general harmless questions like this, but I do mind when people assume or think it's okay to ask probing personal questions about my background when they are strangers. You'd be surprised at the lack of filters some people have...

I prefer Asian. Do not like Oriental. But it all depends on the person's intent.

[arivecchi]

My black friends describe themselves as black, yet I would be uncomfortable calling them that to other people. I use AA when describing a black person if that even comes up.

I am from Puerto Rico so I refer to myself as Puerto Rican, even though I've lived in the States since 1991. The fact that I call myself Puerto Rican does not negate the fact that I am also American. I don't get why that bothers some posters - that is what America is all about - tolerance of difference races and cultures. As an FYI, people of Hispanic heritage generally refer to themselves by their country of origin, not as Hispanic (i.e. Cuban, Guatemalan, Mexican, etc.).

As an aside, Fairy, please tell your neighbor to come visit me in Lincoln Park. I think she might be quite shocked by the fact that not all Hispanics fit into her little prejudiced mold. I love it when my Wisconsin-bred very Caucasian husband corrects people on Hispanic references. They are quite shocked to find out he has a Puerto Rican wife!

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

My dh is a 3rd generation Japanese American. If you ask him what his nationality is, he'll tell you American. He checks "other" on forms that ask for his nationality and writes in "American" because that's what he is.


Usually forms are not asking for nationality, but ethnicity. Not the same thing. My husband is ethnic Han Chinese and he is American. Nationality != ethnicity.

If someone asks me what *nationality* my kids are, they are American, duh. :p Ethnic origin, I have a different answer.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

Do you know if this is the case other places? I haven't been out of the country in a really long time and wonder, if I moved to Germany, would people call me an American-German? Are there Polish-Germans and African-Germans? Or, is it an American thing?

It is really not just an American thing. Other countries struggle with the same sort of issues.

As one example, Germany has a large population of Turkish people. They are not just referred to as "Germans." I'll ask my sister (her doctoral research is on Turkish population in germanic countries), but I think they are referred to as "German Turks" or "Turkish Germans?"

[jenny]

off topic, but one thing i find annoying is when people ask me "where are you really from?" one of my friends who was born here but is Korean says, i was born in pennsylvania...that's where I'm really from.

ugh.

[TwinFoxes]

One of the main reasons this was asked was an article about President Obama. In the article they kept switching between Black and AA.


Ah...good question. As another poster pointed out there's a thing called AP style that a lot of news outlets follow. Where I worked, we used the term "African American" on first reference, and either black or African-American were acceptable for subsequent references. (We didn't follow AP style exclusively because I worked in broadcast and things that look good on paper don't always sound good to the ear.) We also had a rule that people could call themselves whatever they want. We got emails from people who complained that we referred to President Obama as "black" rather than "biracial." But at that time he called himself black, subsequently he's occasionally referred to himself as biracial. I don't know if our policy changed (I'm SAH now.)

[egoldber]

My roommate in college was of Taiwanese heritage, but she was born in California. People would complement her on how well she spoke English. She got sooooo irritated with it.

[codex57]

off topic, but one thing i find annoying is when people ask me "where are you really from?" one of my friends who was born here but is Korean says, i was born in pennsylvania...that's where I'm really from.

ugh.


I do that too. Well, I say "Los Angeles" instead of California.

Still, even if they mean the other thing, I still have a hard time answering.

I speak one certain foreign language associated with a particular island, but that's cuz my parents' families immigrated there (before coming to America). My parents also speak the languages of their real home areas, but I don't. So, I don't think it's exactly appropriate to say I'm from that island. For the most part tho, people just assume it and I don't bother correcting.

[bubbaray]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?




Not so sure I agree with this, particularly re Germany. If you are born in Germany but are of Turkish descent, you're still seen as a "Turk".

Not sayin' its right, but it is what it is.

And, if you are Muslim but born in France and choose to veil, well, I wouldn't count on being considered French. Huge issue there right now.

Its not just skin color, there are many other things that divide us.

I know that in Canada, people are not referred to as "(skin color or ethinicity) Canadians" -- except French Canadians. Even that term has fallen out of favor and most call themselves Francophones (as they are distinguished not by skin color, but by heritage and language). I've never heard of a black person here being called or calling themselves a Black Canadian.

[bubbaray]

As one example, Germany has a large population of Turkish people. They are not just referred to as "Germans." I'll ask my sister (her doctoral research is on Turkish population in germanic countries), but I think they are referred to as "German Turks" or "Turkish Germans?"


Usually just "Turks" and not in a nice way. The term is derogatory and basically used to refer to anyone who looks Muslim.

[bubbaray]

Another thought -- what about black people who are not from Africa necessarily, but say Jamaica or elsewhere in the Caribbean? I think that a lot of the black population in Canada (particularly in Toronto & Montreal) are from the Caribbean.

[MontrealMum]

Not sure I wanted to enter this, but it seems fairly tame so far :)

Melissa has made some good points, about what happens in Canada, re. hyphenating and identity. Quebec certainly has it's own way of doing things, and again, like in Germany, not a good one. But since moving here I have rarely heard the term "African-Canadian". When I have heard it, it's been spoken by an American who was, granted, trying to be sensitive. The accepted term here appears to be black. Or Black, with a capital B. This is often used in academic literature. It's what I hear people use in reference to themselves - which is my standard to how to refer to someone, self-reference - and also in the press. The black population here comes from the underground railroad, as well as from the Caribbean...it's quite diverse.

Someone was asking why we don't refer to people from Spain as being Latino? The term Latino, as well as the term Hispanic, come from the names used to refer to the Spanish colonial posessions - Hispaniola, which is now sometimes referred to as Latin America. If you're from Spain, you're not from Latin America, so this term would make no sense. Unless you want to use Latino to refer to language origins or Roman Empire heritage - in which case you're talking about most of Europe ;)

This may have changed recently, but when I was studying German in univesity in the early 90's German citizenship was passed through the father only. If a German woman has a child with a non-German man, that child will not be a German citizen. So, you don't get hyphenateds in Germany because they don't exist - citizenship-wise. Again, this might have changed recently, but a decade to change cultural norms isn't very long.

I will not repeat the phrases I heard when travelling there to refer to immigrants because they are quite offensive, but people of Arabic origin, or Muslim faith, or just plain dark in skin tone are all lumped into the same category of "Turk" - and it's not a friendly distinction.

[Moneypenny]

Another thought -- what about black people who are not from Africa necessarily, but say Jamaica or elsewhere in the Caribbean? I think that a lot of the black population in Canada (particularly in Toronto & Montreal) are from the Caribbean.


I have a friend whose mother is Jamaican and father is British. We attended diversity training at work and the presenter kept pointing to my friend (who has dark skin) and saying the proper way to refer to him is African American, not black. After the presenter had said this a few times, my friend piped up with, "I'll actually be very offended if you keep calling me African American. I'm British Jamaican. Please do not make assumptions about me based on my skin color."

In general, I think people get to call themselves whatever they want to. If, for some reason, I need to refer to a person based on their skin color (and I really can't think of the last time I had to do this), I say person of color. That seems to be fairly widely accepted in my academic work circle, at least.

[Naranjadia]

It is really not just an American thing. Other countries struggle with the same sort of issues.

As one example, Germany has a large population of Turkish people. They are not just referred to as "Germans." I'll ask my sister (her doctoral research is on Turkish population in germanic countries), but I think they are referred to as "German Turks" or "Turkish Germans?"

And South America, too. For example, Ecuador has Mestizo, Amerindian, Afro-Ecuadorian, and chollo, among other groups. It varies from country to country, but identifies your "background".

[alien_host]

off topic, but one thing i find annoying is when people ask me "where are you really from?" one of my friends who was born here but is Korean says, i was born in pennsylvania...that's where I'm really from.

ugh.

That IS the worst. I also say the city or state I'm from and that totally confuses some people. Once I said "Massachusetts" and the person said, "no I meant where were you born". I said, "Massachusetts" again and she was totally puzzled. This was a long time ago, I was fresh out of college and it was another twenty-something, but I was floored that they had no concept that I could have been born here! geesh....

[daisymommy]

Many African Americans did not leave their homeland voluntarily. (edited to fix) Their ancestors were forced from their homes, from their countries, from their continent. For that reason alone, it seems to me that anyone who chooses identify as African American certainly has every reason to. (not that I feel anyone from any ethnic, racial, etc. group has to justify their reason for wanting to be identified a certain way :) )

As a biracial mama here, may I pipe up and say you hit the nail on the head Beth :wink2:

For those who choose to call themselves African-American, it is holding on to the last rights of their heritage that were stolen from their families. We are Americans, but we don't want anyone to ever forget where we came from. It has something to do with cultural honor. And I will admit, for some, it is a fierce pride--a kind of "in your face" statement.

That said, in my father's family (the AA side), no on refers to themselves as anything other than American. But I understand and respect others who choose to call themselves AA.

[tny915]

I had a friend who hated being called Asian. He said he liked to be called Japanese. He said when you call a person and Asian than you are saying they all look the same. He was mad that people would think he was Chinese.

I'm Chinese (well, I was born here but my parents born in China) and live in an area with a lot of other Asians. It's impossible for me to know just by looking at someone whether they're Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc. because to me everyone looks similar. I've been called Korean and Japanese, usually by other Asians trying to guess. Doesn't bother me one bit. So yes, I do think a lot of us look the same.

[poppy]

Hmmm.... but some people say Asians look the same to be derogatory.

Given that, then it goes for all similar races; I can't tell who is British, Scottish, Russian, German, etc.

I had one guy tell me all Asians were the same and he didn't know Vietnam was different from Korea, China, etc. It's very sad. Brush up on just a little bit of geography. No need to wear ignorance on your sleeve.

[ett]

I'm Chinese (well, I was born here but my parents born in China) and live in an area with a lot of other Asians. It's impossible for me to know just by looking at someone whether they're Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc. because to me everyone looks similar. I've been called Korean and Japanese, usually by other Asians trying to guess. Doesn't bother me one bit. So yes, I do think a lot of us look the same.

I'm Chinese too (well born in Taiwan, but moved here when I was 5) and I agree that a lot of Asians do look similar. So I don't have a problem with being called Asian because some people really can't tell whether you're Chinese or Korean or whatever and they're really not being derogatory. Most people do say I look Chinese though recently a Chinese person told me I looked Korean.

I frequently see the term Asian American used at church conferences when they are targeting all the different Asian nationalities. So it's not really practical to say Chinese American, Korean American, etc. because you can't cover all the countries.

[poppy]

I am fine with the term Asian too. But I am not okay with people saying, "All Asians look the same". If you mean that it's hard to tell certain people from different Asian descents from others, then that is natural. It's hard to tell where certain Caucasian people are from too, esp. b/c it's usually more than just one country.

But often ppl use the statement Asians are all alike to be nasty or derogatory;
I've had this happen to me personally and their intent was to degrade.
That I find offensive. So, saying Asians look the same can be dangerous.
Again, intent is key. You don't hear ppl saying, "Caucasians look the same". That statement is often used in an intentionally negative way by many.

But naturally, people from the same region will have some physical similarities.

However, it would be nice if everyone could just relax and enjoy each other. I wish I could just be an American period. But b/c I am not Caucasian, I am not given that luxery by others. I believe that we (all races) are all more alike than different.

[randomkid]

I've been away from this thread since last night. A few things struck me in the many responses this has gotten.

1) Some have wondered why we need to refer to someone by skin color/race/ethnicity at all and why it is mentioned when a crime has been committed. Well, if they are looking for a criminal, it only makes sense that describing that individual as accurately as possible would make it easier to find them. BTW, this past week, there was a horrific crime committed here in FL that involved 7 people planning a home invasion on a couple that have adopted 16 disabled children over the years. These people killed this couple - the suspects were white, Hispanic, and black. They have all been arrested - I've seen a lot of coverage on this and did not once hear any of them described by their race/ethnicity.

The reason I encounter it is because I work in a HUGE hospital that is up to over 1000 beds, I think - I've lost count. When co-workers and I are having a conversation about someone (for example, last week we were trying to describe a former co-worker to someone who didn't remember this person or referring to a nurse on one of the MANY floors), it makes it much easier to describe the person using the nationality or skin color. I can't say "The nurse with the purple scrubs" and hope they know who I'm referring to. In the case of the former co-worker - she is black, but not African American. She speaks French Creole, we know her heritage is Haitian and she does not have an accent that would lead you to know all of this.

2) Someone mentioned that it would be easier if we would just refer to people by what they prefer to be called. On this, ITA. If we would just stick to what they call themselves instead of giving titles and trying to be PC, then there wouldn't be so much confusion.

3) DD, who is 4.5yo, also does not refer to people by skin color or features yet. She does notice hair, but I think that is because her hair is curly and different from most other kids' hair. This is the beautiful thing about children. Everyone is equal in their eyes if we don't teach them differently. Only once did DD notice an very obese woman and mentioned the size of her bum. However, she didn't mean it in a negative way. To her, it was just an observation. I watched my stepdaughters refer to people as "having brown skin" for many years before they learned about different races, nationalities, etc. Having brown skin could have been any nationality. We never really knew - it was just if someone had darker skin than we do. We just let them use terms they were comfortable with rather than teaching them anything different. We live in FL and there are people from, literally, all over the world here. To our children, it's normal to have so many different looking people around.

Oh yeah, someone mentioned that black people from other countries would likely be speaking with an accent, so you would know they are not American. Not true. I work with a few younger people whose parents are Haitian. Not sure if they were all born here or came here when very young, but they do not have any accent at all. They speak French Creole and English and you would never know that they are not African American in the true sense of that term. You can never assume anything about anybody!

[Snow mom]

Someone mentioned that it would be easier if we would just refer to people by what they prefer to be called. On this, ITA. If we would just stick to what they call themselves instead of giving titles and trying to be PC, then there wouldn't be so much confusion.


Well, I'm not sure this is true in terms of less confusion. As we've seen on this thread different people have different preferences. It's hard to suit all these preferences at the same time. Obviously respect is the key though.

[DrSally]

Completely off-topic but your post brings up another issue that bothers me.
So I wanted to post.

I get bothered by the news media or articles, etc., that will say, "Her adopted
daughter..." "Her adopted son"

Why is there a need to even mention the word 'adopted'?

Why can't they just say, "Her daughter" or "Her son" ?


Sorry to interrupt.

They really shouldn't. It's a subtle differentiator that isn't necessary and reflects and contributes to the attitude that the adopted relationship is "less than" the biological tie. The media referred to Ronald Reagan's "adopted son" until the day Reagan died (and even afterward). How is that relevant?

[DrSally]

In my view, African American is the preferred term, esp. in more formal settings, academic writing, etc. However, I don't think Black is offensive to most. Coloured is not currently used. And, as other have said, NAACP is a historical name.

I've never heard of people being offended by being called Asian. Although, my first thought is that the indiv might want to be referred to by their specific country of origin--e.g., Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian, Etc. Asia covers a lot of territory and there are great differences btw. the various countries covered. I find the term "Oriental" annoying. Not really offensive, but annoying b/c it is an older term and implies a lot more stereotype "baggage" and that maybe the person hasn't kept up with the times, KWIM?

I agree with pp, that "Paki" is highly offensive in Great Britian.

Personally, I prefer to call people what they call themselves, so I follow their lead. I got A LOT of scrutiny for this by doing a report on a patient who's parents were from Egypt and identified herself as "African American" on her paperwork. So, I described her as AA in my report. My supervisors thought she was "hiding" behind the term. It was very upsetting to me b/c I wanted to identify her as she identified herself.

[niccig]

I'm glad I read this thread - I did not realize that the word Oriental is offensive and certainly would not want to offend anyone. I think in Britain it would be used (although I may be out of date with this having not lived there for a few years) just because if you say Asian the assumption would be that the person was from India, Bangladesh or Pakistan as there are so many more people from that that part of Asia in Britain. Obviously if you know that the person is Japanese, or whatever, you just say that.


My understanding from History courses at college is that the terms "Oriental" and "Occident" are no longer used as these are terms from colonial times and were imposed by the colonists. Now, you use the terms that the people use themselves. Same reason that the capital of China is called Beijing and not Peking as Peking was the anglicized name for the city.

[strollerqueen]

Fortunately I have never heard anyone say "My Mexican", or I may have punched them. FWIW, when I lived in South Texas, nearly everyone referred to themselves as "Mexican", or "Mexican American", and it was with pride. And why wouldn't it be? We loved the food, the music, the rich heritage, the cultural values... The area I was in had a 96% Latino population, and it was always that way. So the people there really hadn't experienced the prejudice that maybe someone else would in a more white state. Anyway, I never saw anyone hating themselves there because of their heritage.

[TwinFoxes]

Oh yeah, someone mentioned that black people from other countries would likely be speaking with an accent, so you would know they are not American. Not true. I work with a few younger people whose parents are Haitian. Not sure if they were all born here or came here when very young, but they do not have any accent at all. They speak French Creole and English and you would never know that they are not African American in the true sense of that term. You can never assume anything about anybody!

Well that was me, I said you'd likely pick up an accent. And I still say that someone who's black and British or Jamaican (meaning raised there) would LIKELY have an accent. Clearly not EVERYone would. Just as not everyone who's white and British has an accent, but they likely do. It's a matter of playing the percentages. The godmother of one of my twins is from Jamaican, I know plenty of Jamaicans, they have accents. It doesn't make sense to me to not call someone African American on the off chance that they're from Jamaica but have no accent. For every 100 people you call African American, I doubt even 2 of them will say "oh no, I'm not African-American, I'm Jamaican but I have no accent." ;)

[niccig]

off topic, but one thing i find annoying is when people ask me "where are you really from?" one of my friends who was born here but is Korean says, i was born in pennsylvania...that's where I'm really from.

ugh.

What gets me is that I am rarely asked when do I come from. I've lost most of my Australian accent. There is a little left on some words, and if I person catches that, then they'll ask. But your friend who was born here is probably asked more than I am, because they think she's recently moved here. I have recently moved here, but I'm rarely asked because I "look" like white Americans. I'm also not who they mean when they use the term "foreigner" as my ethnicity is seen as being the same as theirs. It gets me hopping mad that your friend is always asked this question based on how she looks.

I never had a strong Australian accent, as not everyone there sounds like the Crocodile Hunter did - he had a very strong Australian accent, and many people expect me to sound the same...oh no, never did and now I have a mish-mash of Australian and American accents.

And it's interesting what you put on forms. I've always written Australian, but I'm an American citizen now, so I can write one or the other or both. I think I'll write both for a while, it seems strange to not include Australia and strange to not include America - I'm both now, so can I call myself and DS Australian-American?? My mother, who was born in South Africa and moved to Australia as a teenager, no longer considers herself South African, she is Australian. So, I wonder if in time, I will drop the Australian reference??? I can't imagine doing that now, but who knows how I will refer to myself when I am in my 90s...

We were applying to a private school for DS and friends told us to make a point of DS being half-Australian as schools like a diverse population. I don't consider being Australian to mean I could say our family is diverse..but it is not a common family background here. People have also told me I'm exotic and I laugh as exotic to me is Fiji or Noumea.

[stella]

British-Jamaican! Love it!!!

[MontrealMum]

And it's interesting what you put on forms. I've always written Australian, but I'm an American citizen now, so I can write one or the other or both. I think I'll write both for a while, it seems strange to not include Australia and strange to not include America - I'm both now. My mother, who was born in South Africa and moved to Australia as a teenager, no longer considers herself South African, she is Australian. So, I wonder if in time, I will drop the Australian reference??? I can't imagine doing that now, but who knows how I will refer to myself when I am in my 90s...

I know exactly how you feel. Although I sound American - and very midwestern - when I am down there, and when I have just gotten off the phone with my mom or BFF, I also have the Montreal English accent. And I can switch on and off. My citizenship ceremony was one of the proudest days of my life, but I do not think I have stopped thinking of myself as American as well. I don't know how I'll feel in 20, 30 yrs. time, but I think I will probably still think of myself as both. I'm not sure if I'm going to describe DS as American-Canadian though, except to get a laugh...rather, he is American AND Canadian.

[Reyadawnbringer]

Usually forms are not asking for nationality, but ethnicity. Not the same thing. My husband is ethnic Han Chinese and he is American. Nationality != ethnicity.

If someone asks me what *nationality* my kids are, they are American, duh. :p Ethnic origin, I have a different answer.



:yeahthat:
Finally someone brought up the nationality vs. ethnicity!

Nationality: the status of belonging to a particular nation, whether by birth or naturalization: the nationality of an immigrant.

Ethnicity: ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.

Race (noun) : a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

From wikipedia: Race- The term race or racial group usually refers to the categorization of humans into populations or groups on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics.[1] The most widely used human racial categories are based on salient traits (especially skin color, cranial or facial features and hair texture), and self-identification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)

So it looks like what started as a discussion on how to describe a person according to physical attributes turned into an muddled conversation about which Nationality to lump them into based on appearance. That is especially dangerous here in America where so many people come from different racial, ethnic, and nationality backgrounds.

I guess I will just leave it at that.

[kijip]

This is something that annoys me. If you're born in Poland, your Polish. Born in Germany? German. If you're born in American, shouldn't you just be an American?



Actually in in Germany, being born there does not make a lick-split of difference. You are German only if your parents are German. I don't know about Poland. And let's face it, in the USA, British citizens that are Caucasian are perceived differently than those that are of African or Indian descent. I have a friend, born in Britain but not white who is constantly asked "No, really, where are you FROM?" here in the States. If she were white, people here would say "Oh, ok, you're British".

I agree that people should not care so much about skin color, but the fact remains that they do. My brother and I may both be American but we have vastly difference experiences in this counrty which are influenced greatly by the color of our skin.

When forms ask for race, I used to just write in HUMAN. If they ask for ethnicity (which seems to be the norm now), I check Caucasian/White. I have never seen a form that asked for nationality except for the checkbox to indicated if you are an American citizen or green card holder. Which for thinks like working or taxes is highly relevant in some situations.

[bubbaray]

Actually in in Germany, being born there does not make a lick-split of difference. You are German only if your parents are German.


Not necessarily:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law

In general, birth in Germany (http://www.windsorpeak.com/wiki/Germany) does not confer German citizenship if neither parent is German. However, children born on or after 1 January (http://www.windsorpeak.com/wiki/January_1) 2000 (http://www.windsorpeak.com/wiki/2000) to non-German parents acquire German citizenship at birth if at least one parent:

has a permanent residence permit (and has had this status for at least 3 years); and
has been residing in Germany for at least 8 years.
Such children will be required to apply successfully to retain German citizenship by the age of 23. Assuming the laws are not changed prior to 2023, they will normally be required to prove they do not hold any foreign citizenship.

[Nooknookmom]

Dude, I thought everyone was Irish on St. Patrick's Day! Or maybe it's just we Chicagoan's here that put aside our totally other heritages and say, "Have green beer, will travel to St. Patrick's Day Parade and wish ye top o'the mornin' ... BURP." Hee! A little levity . . . (where's the 'I'm piss drunk' smiley?) i grew up in chicagoland, i dont have a drop 'o irish in me, but u bet on st paddys i was huntin a green beer - lookin at the green river & cheerin (insert burp here!)

[stefani]

I am Chinese by ancestry, born and grew up in Indonesia, naturalized US citizenship. I am not offended being called Oriental or Asian. Sometimes people think I am Japanese or Korean. I am not offended, but I do correct them.

DH is 1/2 Polish, 1/4 British isles, and 1/4 Sweedish, born in the US.

What is DS? :-) Chinese Indonesian Polish British Sweedish American, i.e. a mutt :ROTFLMAO: (I won't say that about other people, but I can about DS, right?).

[Melanie]

I always wondered about calling people "African American" when people of a darker skin color are not always of African descent. When I was a child 'black' was acceptable, but now I wonder if it is not?

I also have heard people use the term "People of Color" as a positive thing (meaning people were self-referring like that) and I wondered why it would not be offensive given the history of the term "colored."

I don't want to offend anyone and try to avoid using skin color references as descriptors whenever possible, but sometimes it is hard to avoid.

I am an American Mutt, really only referred to as nothing but American (Unless you want a lengthy list of things which I am 1/8 or less of), which is wierd b/c I feel like so many have such strong ties to their origins but really, I've got nothing (okay, yes I have American History but I think you know what I mean). The American 'traditions' are just not the same as if you ancestors are from some where else and you celebrate this or that. I feel like, outside of specific religions, we've just call Hallmark holidays.

[Globetrotter]

OP, kudos to you for asking and not assuming :) I think assumptions are the basis of ignorance, so polite inquiries are always welcome. I asked a couple of my Black friends this question, and they preferred Black vs. AA. I also asked them and other close Black friends about how they styled their hair, because at that time I really didn't get it. Now it seems so obvious (duh, I straighten my own hair, but at the time I didn't know these options existed!) but I see nothing offensive in it.

When I was growing up in the U.S., as a brown-skinned Indian-American (NOT American Indian ;) - there is a difference!) people would compliment me on my English (AP level). Er, yeah, I happened to have spent several years in England. Besides, English is an official language in India.

People would ask where I was from.

me: (the town where I lived) Oh, you mean Indian?
Them: What tribe?
me: No, I was born in India.. but I moved here from England

Back in England, "paki" was a really mean term they used on us South Asians, regardless of our origin. There, when you say Asians, it includes South Asians. Here, Asians are from Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, etc... I read a study ages ago that described the problem of not being able to tell people apart or generalizing that all Asians/Blacks/fill-in-the-blanks look the same. Apparently, you are more aware of differences within your own subgroup, which makes sense. For instance, it's easier for ME to remember and differentiate five different Indian kids vs. five Asian kids. I found this to be true in my kid's classes. I think us black haired folks are harder to tell apart partly because, well, we all have black hair!! Whereas, caucasians have a variety of hair colors that make it much easier to differentiate one from the other. That's my theory, anyway.

We know so many Asians that I've become pretty good at figuring out who is Japanese vs. Korean vs. Chinese vs. Phillipino. I can also spot the accents. I'm not always right, but for the most part I am! I would say, based on my experience, it's a question of familiarity.