Dear neighbor, Please STOP doing laundry all the time!

[citymama]

Help! I need some advice about a neighbor problem.

We share a washer/dryer with 2 neighbors. One is an extended family with 5 kids and 3 grandkids living at home or frequently visiting. The grandma is *constantly* doing laundry (like 30 loads a week). My grouse is not so much that we can never get a moment in to do our own laundry (although that's a pain). It's that I have to foot their water bills, and they are exorbitant. We share water costs 3-ways - with the other neighbors and landlord, but *not* the laundry-lovin' family. That family has lived there a long time, and their lease doesn't require them to pay for water. Our water bills are enormous - $500 a month split 3 ways. This family has no incentive to reduce their laundry and doesn't seem to have any plans to cut back!

How to be neighborly and yet get them to cut back? We have asked them politely. The other neighbors are a nice, but currently unemployed couple in their 40s, no kids. They have confronted the other neighbors about their laundry excesses. This doesn't seem to have had any effect.

Sensitivities include: the neighbors who do laundry all the time are really really sweet. They don't speak English very well. I'm never sure they completely understand why we are so worked up about it. (Although I once printed out a bill and showed it to them!) I am sensitive to the fact that the landlord is trying to get them evicted because they pay some ridiculously low rent-control rent (about a quarter of what we pay for the same size unit). I don't want to contribute to their getting kicked out.

But I am annoyed that they don't cut back despite our polite requests - if anything, they seem to do more and more as the number of grandkids increases! And they seem to be bringing in laundry from relatives who don't even live there! Argh - it's driving me nuts! I would appreciate any suggestions from cooler heads.

[wellyes]

Yikes.

Is it possible they are running a laundry business? That was my first suspicion reading your post. Even though it's almost certainly under-the-counter there still may be zoning laws involved. Not suggesting you turn them into the police but it would be leverage against them to make them stop.

I sincerely doubt they're not aware of the water bill situation. I can't entirely blame them for taking advantage of it, frankly, but it's completely reasonable to do whatever you can to make them stop.

[Momof3Labs]

If the issue is the water bill, then you need to talk to your landlord about the agreement to split it 3 ways when there are actually 4 families using the machines. Even if they used it the same amount as the other families, you would still be subsidizing them. So, really, the issue is that the landlord is making everyone else pay for the fourth family's water bills, which have become exorbitant.

Since it is in your lease, there isn't much that you can do legally, but I would still bring it up with the landlord.

[dcmom2b3]

Hmmm. Landlord tenant issues can be touchy; I can't think of anything that you could do that wouldn't give the landlord more incentive to evict them. But FWIW, it does occur to me that you and the other tenant each should be paying 1/4 the water bill, with the landlord paying the other half. That the other tenants' lease doesn't require them to pay for water shouldn't fall on you. The landlord made that deal (or assumed it from a prior landlord).

Is there a city ombudsman or tenants' advocacy group that you could consult with for ideas?

[TwinFoxes]

If the issue is the water bill, then you need to talk to your landlord about the agreement to split it 3 ways when there are actually 4 families using the machines. Even if they used it the same amount as the other families, you would still be subsidizing them. So, really, the issue is that the landlord is making everyone else pay for the fourth family's water bills, which have become exorbitant.

Since it is in your lease, there isn't much that you can do legally, but I would still bring it up with the landlord.

I agree, the issue isn't with the family, they're doing what they've always done and what their lease allows (if their lease didn't allow it, the landlord would have put a stop to it). The issue is with the landlord. You might check with the rent board in your city to make sure it's even legal to make you pay for someone else's water. I have a feeling it is though...you signed a crappy lease. :( But at least check to see if you have a legal leg to stand on to get the landlord to change the terms of your lease.

I doubt he'll be able to kick them out of a rent controlled apartment. That's what rent control is for! Good luck!!!!

[BabyMine]

You mentioned that they don't speak English very well. Is there anyone in their family late can translate?

[AddiesMom]

It sounds illegal that your lanlord is having you pay for the water but you don't have your own meter!

[deannanb]

can you create a sign-up sheet to do the laundry -
we had one in the sorority house in college -

post it with the time you want to use the laundry - then give it to the other family - and then leave it posted for the large family to have the leftover times! - find someone to translate "the rules" for you.

[blisstwins]

But I am annoyed that they don't cut back despite our polite requests - if anything, they seem to do more and more as the number of grandkids increases! And they seem to be bringing in laundry from relatives who don't even live there! Argh - it's driving me nuts! I would appreciate any suggestions from cooler heads.


I also don't think they are doing anything wrong. Their lease does not require them to pay water. If there is not a limit on the number of people who can live in the apartment and they are doing their family's laundry then it is what it is. It is a service included in their rent. I am a landlord and rent control tenants often have many rights and those have to be respected. If the landlord appears to be harassing them s/he often faces still penalties. I think your issue needs to be with your landlord. Do find out if you can be charged for water without an individual meter and tell your landlord that you think the way th bill is divided needs to change. It is a tenants' market now so s/he will want to keep you and this is a good time to negotiate.

Good luck.

[avd3875]

I seem to remember that you're in SF. I suspect you've already checked this out, but if not, here's the link to the SF Rent Board.

http://www.sfgov.org/site/rentboard_index.asp?id=2142

HTH

[kijip]

You mean to say that the water bill is $1500 a month? Oh.my.gawd.

I agree that the issue is with the landlord and not the other people. Frankly with 10 people in the house, 30 loads sounds within the realm of possibility if they wash their clothes after each wear or something.

Why not install a coin op machine and use THAT towards the water bill? That is what I would do if I were the landlord and the water bill was that high. If it must be split, it needs to be divided by the number of people in the building and then each household pay for the number of people that reside there. Water usage is a very per person sort of thing. If the landlord is stuck without being able to charge the others for water, then they need to eat that proportion of the bill rather than spread it to you. Even then, I hate not having an incentive to use less. Ideally, there would be separate meters but AFAIK, that is not actually a legal requirement in many, many areas.

[citymama]

It sounds illegal that your lanlord is having you pay for the water but you don't have your own meter!

This is interesting - this is what DH and I have discussed as well. We should each have our own meters - rather than have the family with 10 people be subsidized by those with 2.


You mentioned that they don't speak English very well. Is there anyone in their family late can translate?

They're Spanish-speaking; both DH and I speak reasonably good Spanish. The kids are bilingual, but don't want to talk about this stuff (I've tried).


If the issue is the water bill, then you need to talk to your landlord about the agreement to split it 3 ways when there are actually 4 families using the machines. Even if they used it the same amount as the other families, you would still be subsidizing them. So, really, the issue is that the landlord is making everyone else pay for the fourth family's water bills, which have become exorbitant.



There are only 3 families and utility bills are split 3 ways. The landlord pays the share of the family who does all the laundry. When we signed the lease, we were unaware that there was a third family, to be honest (we visited the place just once and met one set of neighbors).

Good points everyone and thanks for the advice. I agree that this is about the landlord but I worry that in approaching the landlord I will jeopardize my neighbor's tenancy. I have asked DH to talk to the "man of the house" - previously, I've spoken to the mom/grandma, and my sense is that she is not the decision-maker (by a long-shot) in that family. Let's see if that makes a difference. My big concern is not so much that they are doing laundry in the way they used to, but that they are doing even more, including laundry for kids and grandkids and other relatives who no longer live in that home.

I will also look into our tenancy rights in terms of rights to separate water metering. Thanks everyone!

[citymama]

You mean to say that the water bill is $1500 a month? Oh.my.gawd.



:eek: Eek! No, this month's bill was $550 - so just under $200 a family.

[kijip]

:eek: Eek! No, this month's bill was $550 - so just under $200 a family.

Whew! I was gonna say, with rates like THAT my first issue would be with the city water authority!

I would talk to the landlord about splitting it in some way that reflects you have 3 peeps, 1 apartment has 2 and the other is twice the 2 of you put together in size. A three way split is very unfair.

[amldaley]

:eek: Eek! No, this month's bill was $550 - so just under $200 a family.

I was in a similar situation but it was with another business in the building vs residents. I paid the water and water heater bill for a beauty shop. The landlord and I requested 12 mo usage history from the utility corp. We averaged, then divided and he reduced my rent by the avg amount I paid for their utilities.

I agree with pp's that this is a landlord issue, but I totally get that your concern is the increasing amount of usage and that they seem to be abusing a good situation despite your requests. Whatever tenants rights are, I am sure they don't protect them in doing the laundry of people who don't even live there.

I have no idea what the laws in your area are, but here, for utility planning purposes, the law assumes 2 persons per bedroom. So, they assume 6 people might live in a 3 bedroom unit. And many urban areas do have "maximum capacities" for the sake of health and safety.

If you speak decent Spanish, and they have bi-lingual kids who chose not to discuss, yeah...they understand what your gripe is.

I would use some of pp's suggestions to be more direct and firm with both the neighbor and the landlord. While you may not want them evicted, you don't really want to support them financially yourself, do you?

[Snow mom]

If you are in SF (which is what I seem to recall) I doubt talking to your landlord will cause them to get kicked out. Tenant rights are so strong around there. I just heard on NPR last week that now landlords can't increase rent beyond 1/3 of the tenants income (really not sure what they mean by that) and that tenants can take on roommates to help them pay the rent even if their lease expressly forbids it. I think a coin op washer would be the best solution. If it costs them as much to do laundry in building as someone who's going to a laundromat then there is less incentive to bring clothes in from elsewhere. The money from the laundry could pay for the collection device, then be put toward the water bill. When you mention it to your landlord though I'd make sure it isn't a bitching fest about this family. Maybe you could say something to the effect of: "I'm concerned about how much our water bill has grown recently. Maybe we could put some items in place to encourage conservation like low-flow shower heads. I've also noticed that the washer seems to always be running. If people had to pay per load I'm sure they would use less." FWIW, I've had problems with shared meters even when everyone pays a share. It's a tragedy of the commons thing.