? Parkway SG or Clek Oobr ?

[babybunny]

I need to fit one HHB into a 2005 Volvo XC 70 and a 2002 Toyota 4-Runner. Currently we have Britax Marathons that are installed via the seat belt.

I was considering the Parkway SG or the Clek Oobr. ( I have been resisting moving on from the Marathons until DS has outgrown it).

My DH mentioned the Parkway, knowing that I would probably agree to anything Britax.

I like the new patterns on the Oobr which is not on his radar.

Please forgive my ignorance, but does either of these require the latch installation, and if so, should I have a problem with that in either of these vehicles?

Any thoughts on a comparison between the two?

[Joolsplus2]

The Oobr is optional to use the LATCH (for instance, you may find it interferes with buckling the belt, so it would be possible to just use it unLATCHed and scooted over a bit). I find my Ollis work in all LATCH position, so it should be fine, though. The Parkway SG doesn't have LATCH, but it has a secure guard anti submarine clip. Here's the only review of it so far http://carseatblog.com/?p=2996 The Oobr's not out yet, I expect that site to have one soon and reviewed, so keep checking back.
The Sunshine Kids Monterey is also a great choice.

I would definitely wait till the Marathon is outgrown. Kids risk of head injury is higher in boosters under age 5, so the longer you can keep them harnessed, to at least 5 or 6, the better (and your risk of losing your voice reminding a kid to sit properly goes up when they go to a booster...trust me, that's the worst part of letting a kid out of a harness, you will be reminding them to sit properly in their seat until they learn to drive and beyond, so put it off as long as you can! ;))

[babybunny]

I checked his shoulders today and they are still below the top slot in the Marathon, so I guess we have a few weeks of grace. I will check out the reviews for the Oobr! Thanks for your help!

[babybunny]

DH talked to his sister who claims that she purchased a regular booster seat for her 5 year old because it had "better ratings than all the high back booster seats". She intended to buy a HHB seat but the reviews were better on the regular booster.

I told him she is misinformed. (I can't tell you how annoyed this makes me, as she is the last person on earth I would turn to for car seat advice.) Now he wants the research to back up my claim that five year olds need a HBB seat.

Anyone know where she got this from? Consumer Reports?
(I really don't want to get into a discussion with her)

Is there any research/statistics on the safety of HBB seats?

[niccig]

I remember seeing a crash test video. THe dummy in a booster with no back hit the window with their head. The dummy in the high back booster did not...I'll have to see if I can find the video.

I do remember a study, hopefully someone else remembers it too, if I can't find it. Something about no back boosters safety wasn't much better than a seatbelt alone, again I think it was head injuries.

You can also tell your DH to find the research that no back is just as good, and until he can find it, you're not budging. Tell him it has to be peer-reviewed, as in an academic study and not just someone's opinion. He won't be able to find it, or won't bother to even look...

Or do what I do...I make the car seat decisions in this house. DH is not as informed and can't be bothered to read up on it. If he questions, then I tell him he's welcome to do all the research and then we can talk about it...he then agrees to whatever I've said we're doing.

[Joolsplus2]

IIHS did a very limited study where they looked ONLY at belt fit on one size dummy... they did say some backless boosters were better than some highbacks http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/boosters/best_bets.html

But they *completely* ignored side and rear impact protection, or normal wiggly napping children who fall sideways out of backless boosters. The point they were trying (but poorly...) to make is that you have to be aware of fit of child in belt. Not that any particular seat is safer than one another. And given this study, http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/chop-htb090905.php I think they could have done a better job acknowledging that side impacts are deadly and that highbacks offer the best chance of survival/injury prevention.
I'm sorry your SIL misunderstood that study, I hope she can be persuaded that a no-back booster is just a bare minimum safety item that fails to protect kids in a great range of crashes. (It's like one of those tiny beanie-shaped motorcycle helmets...it's good enough for the law, but it won't do much to protect your face if you dive into the road chin first...or like Koolaid has enough vitamin C to prevent scurvy, but Orange juice actually is good for you... or flip flops keep your feet off the ground, but you need supportive steeltoe boots at a work site... or any other analogy you can imagine, lol).

[niccig]

No back booster crash test video
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=44227093

High Back Booster with minimal side wings
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=44227301

High Back Booster with deep side wings
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=44227192

Ask your DH which seat he wants to protect DC's head..

My DH says "our cars have side air bags', but DS is too short for the side air bag to give any protection. When he's 9 or 10, he'll be tall enough.

Still looking for the study about kids in high back and low back boosters. I know I read it in a post from Jools the other week.

Again, I'm so strict about car seats that unless DH does as much research etc and can show me I'm wrong, then DS stays in the car seat we have...

[niccig]

this study, http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/chop-htb090905.php

This is the study I was thinking of and those are the points to highlight to your DH...

"Effectiveness of High Back and Backless Belt-Positioning Booster Seats in Side impact crashes"


Belt-positioning booster seats provided a 58 percent overall reduction in risk of injury to 4-to 8-year-olds in side-impact crashes as compared with seat belts alone. (These findings support prior PCPS research, which shows booster seats to be 59 percent effective in reducing injury risk to 4-to 8-year-olds in crashes of all impact directions.)
The risk reduction provided by booster seats in side-impact crashes varied by booster seat type: 4-to 8-year-olds riding in high back booster seats were at a 70 percent reduction in injury risk, while those in backless boosters did not experience a statistically significant risk reduction as compared with seat belts alone.



So any booster is better than seatbelt alone in a side impact crash. BUT for 4-8 year olds a highback booster had 70% reduction, while backless did not reduce the risk for that age group. Once DC is over 8, then highback, backless are about the same for side impact crashes...at least that is how I read the study.

For me, DS is still harnessed at 4.5 yo as he still fits in our harnessed seats - - why buy a seat when you have one that still works? When he doesn't fit, I'll move him to a high back booste.r At age 8 or so, I'll see how he fits in the high back and if he's too big then I'll consider a backless.

[Joolsplus2]

Ooooh, glad you found those videos. :bowdown:

Yeah, we don't have curtain airbags in our van and my 12 year old still rides in a highback in there for head protection. I need to get a safer car before he outgrows the Frontier....

(Oh, and I think there just aren't any kids over age 8 in boosters, or not a statistically large enough sample to do a study on. Once a few states with the 9 or 57" laws have a good crash sample, I'm quite sure kids even older than 8 will be shown to be protected by boosters in side crashes).

[babybunny]

THANK YOU! I cut and pasted all your points and video clips.

He will relate to the motorcycle helmet analogy. He is a big safety nut with motorcycle gear. Go figure.

[mom2binsd]

I checked his shoulders today and they are still below the top slot in the Marathon, so I guess we have a few weeks of grace. I will check out the reviews for the Oobr! Thanks for your help!

The Marathon is outgrown when the child's shoulders are ABOVE the top slots/or the ears are above the shell, so unless your DS is on super growth food I'd say you could have a lot of time left, months and months in fact.

[babybunny]

My darling SIL insists that Consumer Reports (I AM NOT A FAN) lists the turbobooster backless as the top rated booster seat (even above HBB seats). I sent her this link (where you guys previously quoted from) and asked her if Consumers Reports meant that seat for the 8+ crowd.

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/automotive/report-49146.html

And still having major fights with DH over this.

A few facts -- we have a long waisted tall for his age kid who is really skinny.

DH is pushing for the HB Turbobooster based on this article -- http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr100108.html



This is my argument -- From what I have read on these boards --Sunshine Kids Monterey, Recaro Vivo, Parkway SG, probably the Clek Oobr will all have more substantially head protection and have taller seatbacks to fit longer, and deeper/more comfortable leg support.

This thread has the photos to compare the Turbobooster to the Monterey:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=70517


Is there an "official" study that rates any of these models highly?


Is there a b & m store that would have most of these models on display? I am in the NJ/NY area.

[niccig]

I don't think there is anything that compares all those models.

Did your DH look at the crash videos and he still wants a no back booster?

You said he's in motorcycle safety...how much did his helmet cost? Does he wear full protective gear? Is it the cheapest one out there, or better brand/quality?? If it's not the cheapest, then why should your DC's safety not be as important?

You can also break it down to cost. The Parkway SG is about $120. If you're son uses it everyday for 6 years (highback and then low back) it's pennies a day..

I then pull the "why isn't DS's safety your first concern? Why is money or convenience more important to you" when DH talked about a booster. DS isn't even 40lbs, and I've just told DH that he won't be in a booster until then. DH has spent more than $120 on a gadget, so I do the "why isn't DC's safety worth it when you've spent more on x gadget that will be obsolete in 2 years" or I think my words were "if x car seat is good enough for DS, then x camera is good enough for you (a cheap one) and you don't need the incredible expensive digital SLR you've been lusting after, as it's not like it's saving your life in a car accident".

...or you can just say that you will save up, sell something, not buy something, and that money will go to a booster, so it's not costing any extra from the budget.

I hope you can get a good booster.

eta..sorry if I sound confrontational. My DH has equal input on everything with DS, but if he wants to do something that will compromise DS's safety, then I get all Mama Bear when he says "it's good enough" and I put my foot down. Eg. he didn't want DS to use bike helmet when on a dirt track, I insisted, DH was POed at me, as I make him wear his helmet too. DS did actually fall off his bike and DS said to DH, "I'm glad I had my helmet on"...

[babybunny]

Thanks for the advice.

Well, I sent the article on side impacts/HBB seats to darling SIL. I think she was surprised. She's backing off a bit. However, she says she needs to buy a booster seat for her three year old. (Gee -- that would be because he has outgrown his convertible car seat already -- something I predicted would happen before he should be in a booster. That was the argument over 4 years ago with DH when I wanted to return her shower gift (same car seat - again highly rated in Consumers Reports) and invest in a third Marathon as the emergency car seat ) I did not win that argument with DH back then. Maybe that is why this is making me so crazy. Ugh. A three year old in a booster. And he cannot sit still. Ever. Unbelievable.


For some reason I cannot figure out how to view those videos on My Space even though I created a My Space account today.

You are right about the cost of the helmet, the cost of the special motorcycle safety sunglasses, protective gear etc. I think he likes to push my buttons. When I quote anything from a blog, he gets nuts.

[swampnurse]

SO which ones qualify as "deep side wings"? That video sure makes them look safe!