Talk to me about buying a fixer upper

[erv917]

Mostly a lurker here, but it seems like this forum is full of smart women with a diversity of experiences so I figured I would see if anyone has any experience with buying a fixer upper. DH has accepted a new job, and in about a 6 months we'll be moving to a new state. We'll be going from a relatively moderate cost of living area to a much higher COL area. The new area has much older housing stock than our current area, so I am thinking it's inevitable that we'll end up buying something in need of at least some work.

So, hit me with your experiences and stories about home renovations, please! I could really use some help thinking through if taking something like this on is even a good idea, not to mention some resources for getting a ball park estimate of what it might cost. Oh, I should add that we are not really the handiest people, not to mention that we are pretty busy these days (who isn't with young children), so I am not anticipating doing a lot of work ourselves, other than maybe basics like painting. We are hoping this will be our "forever" house, so it's an exciting prospect to customize it to what we want, but I just want to make sure we are not biting off more than we can chew (both financially and sanity-wise!).

Thanks in advance for your help!

[wellyes]

If you're not handy, don't.
If you're handy, but have young kids, I still probably say don't.

Any house you buy will probably require some work, no big deal. But deliberately buying a fixer upper is not for the feint of heart. I recommend only to people who can afford to get the house fixed up BEFORE they move in.

We bought a house thinking it needed work. Inspector found some issues so we budgeted for them. Turns out inspector didn't find everything, particularly some water damage. 2 years and $40,000 cash later the house had a new central beam (structural), new floors downstairs, all new trim, electrical replaced, new drywall upstairs, restacked chimney, we redid the kitchen cabinetry, lots & lots & lots more. $40,000 because my husband is very handy, his dad is an electrician and we have family friends who are contractors; could have been much more.

There was never a day without tools around, or exposed drywall, or plastic sheeting up.

Were we unlucky? Sure. But so are many, many people who buy fixer-uppers.

The good news is we still broke a profit on the durned place in the end due to the housing market. But let me tell you, I hated that house. I put off having children because I didn't want to be pregnant/with a newborn in a construction zone.

My advice is to start looking now, or rent for a year and give yourself a lot of time to look without pressure.

And congratulations to your husband!

[niccig]

I'd just add in that house renovations are a big pain in the butt and especially when kids around. We had all our wood windows taken out, stripped offsite because of lead paint, painted and replaced. It took about 10 days all up as they only did as many windows as they could in one day. I hated it. And now we're talking about redoing the kitchen...I think I will put myself into an early death, but at least DS will be at school everyday. Having him underfoot, wanting to touch everything ughgh.

And it's always way more expensive then you think. Every time you do something, they find something else that is wrong, that isn't up to current building code etc. Always budget 25% more.

We bought thinking we would add on, as did several friends. It's way more expensive than we ever thought it could be. If you do buy, I say buy something that has the right sq. footage and floorplan, so you're not tearing out walls/additions etc. And maybe do remodeling in stages. Eg. this bath this year, the kitchen the next year, then this then that...I get doing it all at once, but it's really difficult to live in a complete house remodel.

Oh, and as for not being handy. :hysterical: Laughing at that is me pre home ownership. You learn, as you can't always pay for something to be done. I've been scraping wood root out of the back gate, painting with wood stabilizer and then will fill holes with epoxy, sand back, prime and paint. We do need a new gate eventually, but not ready yet as plans for that part of the garden. So my job this week is doing this temp. fix that will get us a couple more years out of the gate. And DS is my helper. Thankfully he loves Bob the Builder. DH works a lot, so I do many of the small jobs around the house.

ETA. Despite the challenges of an older home...oh, need to rewire entire room..OK...I do prefer our older home. It was in move-in condition, which was really nice as DS was a newborn. There are things we want to do - kitchen is the big one. I hoped to do it before now, but it's taken longer than I hoped. I was pretty naive about remodeling costs when we bought the house. So, whatever you do buy, make sure you can live with it, if it takes much longer than you thought it would. My stove/fridge are nearly 20 years old, but still work and I'm babying them until we can do the kitchen. They're ugly, but they work.

[Ceepa]

I fell for a house before we had kids that was a money pit, but it had good bones and I thought it was charming. Fortunately we didn't buy it because as it turns out DH was not thrilled with the idea of spending every single weekend working on the house and dealing with contractors and hunting down just the right doorknobs and such. :D With small children I wouldn't.

[hollybloom24]

I bought a fixer upper. I'll never do it again.

I am rarely jealous of people, but I am jealous of my friends with new houses who do not have the issues that come along from a home built in 1945 that had years of deffered maintenance!

We bought our house because it allowed us to buy into a very high end neighborhood that we normally would not be able to afford. Whatever we saved on the house buying it, we have invested into it with the repairs we have done. Not rennovations or upgrades - repairs, mostly structural. I still have a kitchen from 1984 and bathrooms from the 1950s. If I posted pictures of my peach and black tiled bathroom, we'd all get a good laugh!

We have lived about 10 months with construction. People in and out of the house constantly. Noise. Dirt. Trash. And these were with great contractors - very respectful to us and our neighbors. And it was still bad!

It is always something when you own a house, whether old or new.

Whatever you do always costs more and takes twice as long as originally estimated.

If you want to invest in a neighborhood and house, and upgrade things as time goes on for financial reasons, I get it. If you need to do this for schools, ease of commute, etc., consider a fixer upper. But, knowing what I now know, I would have opted for a house in better shape in a slightly less desirable area.

[gatorsmom]

I whole heartedly agree with what wellyes and niccig said. I would say that if you HAVE to get something that needs a little work make sure it is only cosmetic. In other words, replacing carpet, painting woodwork or walls a different color, doing a little landscaping, sanding wood floors- these are ok. But don't plan on ripping down wallpaper, tearing down and putting up new walls or even replacing dry wall. Anything more than some very simple cosmetic changes will be a major PITA. And if it isn't done right could cost you a fortune to pay someone to repair. We've bought and sold fixer-uppers BEFORE we had children and we didn't live in any of them. It is a lot of work. And we have friends who've done major renovations and have told horror stories of her toddlers and preschoolers rolling around in sheetrock dust or stories of still vacuuming up sheetrock dust that circulated through the air vents (that they had regularly cleaned) for months after the renovations. No matter HOW much plastic sheeting you put up, it still gets around.

Most recently, my friend Ann who's DH is very handy and comes from a family of handy hardworkers bought a foreclosure that had sat empty and needed major repairs. They thought they were getting a good deal since they ddin't have much money and needed alarger house for their growing family. They had the house inspected and budgeted for the repairs. All those considerations went into the decision to buy the house. And now, 2 months into this with 2 small children they are finding repairs the inspector didn't and will be out much, much more money than they can afford. Electrical and HVAC work that didn't get caught. For the amount they are about to sink into it, they could have bought a much nicer house.

I hope I didn't scare you, just wanted to make it clear what a headache renovations are.

[dcmom2b3]

I'm sorry, I don't have any BTDT advice because I knew that buying a fixer-upper would have been the end of my sanity -- even if (especially if?) I wasn't doing much of the work myself. And this was when I was single, childless and had plenty of $$$ at my disposal. So, I'm biased; take my words with that in mind.

I have a friend who completely gutted and re-did a duplex townhouse in the late 90s. The results were great, it's a lovely home, but she didn't go for anything fancy or extreme -- replaced roof and major systems, did the kitchen and two baths, reconfigured the floor plan to be much more open, built a loft and refinished the floors -- yet it still took twice as long and cost nearly twice as much as she planned. In addition to the usual surprises that you uncover when you start tearing into an older home (termites? rotted floor joists?) she had an AWFUL time with contractors. Now that the building boom has slowed down, it might be easier to find good contractors, but I'd suspect that the good ones are still busy, even with the downturn, esp. in a region that has older housing stock.

Also had colleague who redid their master bed and bath; same story, took forever and she and her DH had to shower at the gym every morning for 6 mos b/c the master was the only bath with a tub or shower.

DD's best friend's parents have a fixer-upper, and they're doing things bit by bit (the dad is a carpenter). But how and when he gets projects finished is not necessarily how and when his wife thinks they should be -- sometimes some tension there. You might want to consider how you and your DH deal with decision-making, compromise, all that good stuff.

Overall, I'd consider how flexible you can afford to be (both financially and emotionally). Worst case scenario, you're renting somewhere else while the work gets done all at once. Or living in the midst of low-grade chaos as each project gets done over the course of years(?) months(?) Yikes! Sorry to sound so negative! I told you, I'm biased! Hope others have a more balanced view.

[TwinFoxes]

Wow, I'm surprised at all of the negative reactions to fixer-uppers...and add me to the list! Our house in LA was a fixer-upper, mostly cosmetic. It was still a PITA. It really did have good bones, and thankfully the one thing that had been upgraded was the kitchen (not top of the line, but new and perfectly fine.) Our house had old dark green carpet and pink walls. To "spruce it up" before they put it on the market the previous owners painted some of the rooms...but didn't do any taping and painted over the light switches, the electrical outlets, painted the windows shut. They also varnished the floors, and I swear they used a mop because it was splashed onto the walls. Needless to say, we got a deal. But ripping out the hideous carpet, repainting the walls, stripping off years of paint (1930s house, which is very common in LA) etc etc is just a pain. We did a lot before we moved in, and then we worked on it intermittently until we just petered out. It was never really finished. I think that's the real danger of just doing it a project at a time, you eventually can't bear to think of doing another project.

We're house hunting now, and there's no way we'll buy a fixer. The only thing I'm willing to do is paint (and only because of taste, not because it needs to be painted.) I can't imagine doing a lot of work with our girls around. And I would feel bad using my husband's limited free time he gets with the girls on working on the house.

That being said, if you find you HAVE to buy a fixer, you really have to just do cosmetic work, nothing more major than replacing counter tops. Good luck!

[niccig]

I said that our house was mostly move in, and we've only made cosmetic changes. The kitchen/laundry/2nd bathroom will be a major project. I also won't start until we have 50% more than budget says we'll need. The reason is that I've known people that had more than they thought, but ran out of money and had to live with half-finished remodel for over 2 years. It was supposed to be done before DS#2 was born, he is now 2 years old and they still haven't finished. I know there's always stuff to do, but for the kitchen remodel, I do want all the major work completed. So, I want more savings to make sure we don't run out.

You can also do a search, I'm sure there's a listing of states and how much certain remodeling costs.

[daniele_ut]

We bought a fixer upper last September and we have 2 kids and both work FT. We did a fair amount of the work before we moved in - tore down wallpaper, had drywall skim coated and some replaced, gutted a bathroom and remodeled it completely, ripped out carpet and had hardwood floors refinished, scraped popcorn ceilings and retextured, had a concrete patio torn out and replaced. We did a large chunk of the work ourselves and we are not all that handy. We did have some experienced friends help us out, though, which was hugely helpful. Dh's uncle did the plumbing for free and my coworker is an electrician and did all the electrical, including installing a new breaker panel, moving a lot of wiring and replacing all the plugs and switches upstairs. Once we moved in, things went much more slowly! We were tired of the work and it's hard to work on things at night when the kids are asleep because we are tired and some of the projects are noisy.

We are in the process of refinishing the basement and some trim work upstairs, and yes, we've lived with the basement a mess for 6 months but it hasn't been a huge deal. We live upstairs right now and once the basement is done it will add 1100sf to our living space. It has definitely taken us longer than we hoped and a little more than we budgeted for, but we're about a month from the interior projects being totally done and we will have a house that is 2x the size of a new one with a 45 minute commute for about the same money. Right now, we live in the center of the valley with a 15 minute commute for me and in an older, well established area.

We really did our homework and had a really good, thorough home inspection. We knew our house was structurally sound, but needed a lot of cosmetic work and some maintenance. If you are planning to add on or make structural changed, be aware that it can get VERY costly, very fast. We have some friends who are renovating right now and their project has come in at 2x the bid amount because of a lot of unforseen issues. We are not changing the layout of our house at all.

JMO, but buying a fixer upper doesn't have to equal buying a money pit.

[brittone2]

DH and I would love to fix up/restore a home one day, but I have no interest in doing any major repairs/remodeling, etc. with young kids. Too many hazards (lead, etc. in older homes stirred up by renovations), too much work, too much mess, too expensive to go out to eat all of the time when the kitchen is ripped up for a long period of time (feeding 4 vs. 2 people), etc. (eta: I would consider it if I didn't have to actually live in the house during renovations)

[BillK]

Whatever you think the updates will cost - triple them or at the very least double them. It was amazing how many things popped up for us during our remodel. Fix 2 things for every 1 thing we wanted to do.

[erv917]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts! You always hear stories about renovations costing double what you'd budgeted, and taking twice as long anticipated, but hearing some first hand experiences definitely gives me a (needed!) reality check.

If anyone has any thoughts to share regarding what types of renovations are more/less feasible to take on, I'd love to hear them. For example, it sounds like some of you are saying that buying a house with the square footage you need is significantly less of a pain than adding on (even if that existing square footage needs a lot of work or even reconfiguring, vs. a smaller house where the existing parts are in good shape). Thoughts? Oh, and FWIW, I think we'd REALLY try to avoid living in the house during the renovations--would probably rent for a bit.

[wellyes]

My criteria when shopping were:
1. Must be in move-in condition
2. Baby-safe (most of the house renovated in the past 15 years & up to code)
3. Must have more than one bathroom
4. Must be in a walkable neighborhood with playgrounds & a library

If you say which city you're moving to, some posters here may be able to offer specific advice regarding neighborhoods.

[erv917]

My criteria when shopping were:
1. Must be in move-in condition
2. Baby-safe (most of the house renovated in the past 15 years & up to code)
3. Must have more than one bathroom
4. Must be in a walkable neighborhood with playgrounds & a library

If you say which city you're moving to, some posters here may be able to offer specific advice regarding neighborhoods.

Think I am moving to your neck of the woods, if I remember correctly from the recent housing costs thread. Boston-probably Metro West. We lived in the Boston area from 1999-2005, so we are relatively familiar with things, but still welcome any input, since we were definitely in a different phase of life then (no kids, tiny urban apt)!

[wellyes]

I'm afraid I don't know much about MetroWest, I'm on South Shore. If you're active on Mothering.com, try their "Finding your Tribe" area, I believe they have a pretty big Natick/Framingham community there.

[lowrioh]

Our first house was a fixer upper with great bones and given the same set of circumstances I would do it again. We bought a small house outside of DC for a great price but it needed a lot of cosmetic stuff. We ripped out the carpets, painted every single room, replaced all the pipes, fixed up the basement, completely redid the kitchen (with IKEA) and updated one of the bathrooms. It was a lot of work but because of housing prices it was what we could afford at the time. We did everything ourselves so if you aren't willing to do that I would get some estimates before you make any offers. When we bought this time we were interested in a foreclosure house and almost made an offer until we discovered the large amount of termite damage in the basement.
This time we ended up buying a house that doesn't need a lot of work immediately but will require paint, wall paper removal, new roof, updating the kitchen and some landscaping before long. Most of the housing stock in our area is from the 30's and 40's and almost every property we saw needed some degree of fixing up.
I did find a great website to give estimates of repair costs in your area. http://www.myremodelingproject.com/
I used it to price out a roof and it came a little over the quote I got from a very reputable roofing company.
Good luck with the house hunting. We found that a lot of the properties on the market are just plain crappy. I think that a lot of people that have nicer houses are waiting to see what the real estate market does before they sell. If you do find a place you can get great deals though.

[doberbrat]

IMO A lot of it has to do w/your temperament

11yrs ago we bought a great house that needed a ton of cosmetic work and some minor structural stuff. Rugs to be ripped out, floors refinished, kitchen & bath needed a remodel.

DH SWORE he’d do the stuff. PROMISED my orange counters would be the first priority.
Well, 11 yrs later they’re still orange. I have plywood on the floors in the bathroom b/c he started ripping out the bath but didn’t finish.

He refuses to hire anyone b/c he can do it himself. Except he didn’t do it when he had time and now w/1 child here and a 2nd on the way, he doesn’t have time

Just this am I walked out to find the neighbors getting their roof redone and told dh to ask them to give us a quote for the 3x3 back porch roof that’s leaked for years. And it turned into a huge fight.

Not only is a fixer upper financially and time draining, but it can be very difficult on the relationship as well.

DH inherited some family land and wants to build a house on it and I’ve told him flat out no. I’ve been with him for 18yrs. Plenty long enough to know that if we have to pick out every light fixture, door knob, window etc together, we will not have a marriage left.

[boolady]

JMO, but buying a fixer upper doesn't have to equal buying a money pit.

I agree. We do not own a fixer-upper, but my parents bought one when I was a kid and they still live there. The number one thing I think you need to have if you buy a fixer-upper, even beyond money or know how? Patience. My parents' home is gorgeous and has been for a long time, but it is over 100 years old and due to them both WOHM and having to do projects piecemeal so that the whole house wasn't unlivable at once, they had to be willing to do projects from time-to-time as time and situation permitted.

I am not completely opposed to a fixer-upper, but for DH and I, given our schedules and abilities, it would have to be one that would not involve major structural changes/corrections and would be more about restoration/updating.

[fivi2]

IMO A lot of it has to do w/your temperament

11yrs ago we bought a great house that needed a ton of cosmetic work and some minor structural stuff. Rugs to be ripped out, floors refinished, kitchen & bath needed a remodel.

DH SWORE he’d do the stuff. PROMISED my orange counters would be the first priority.
Well, 11 yrs later they’re still orange. I have plywood on the floors in the bathroom b/c he started ripping out the bath but didn’t finish.

He refuses to hire anyone b/c he can do it himself. Except he didn’t do it when he had time and now w/1 child here and a 2nd on the way, he doesn’t have time

Just this am I walked out to find the neighbors getting their roof redone and told dh to ask them to give us a quote for the 3x3 back porch roof that’s leaked for years. And it turned into a huge fight.

Not only is a fixer upper financially and time draining, but it can be very difficult on the relationship as well.

DH inherited some family land and wants to build a house on it and I’ve told him flat out no. I’ve been with him for 18yrs. Plenty long enough to know that if we have to pick out every light fixture, door knob, window etc together, we will not have a marriage left.

This is us, exactly. I agreed to this house with a few conditions. 6 years later, not one of my conditions has been met. Dh will start a project, get bored or excited about something else, and NEVER finish it. It has caused many arguments.

I will never again (knowingly) buy a house that needs more than paint, and I will make sure we do it before we move in.

(Our house is over 50 years old. We had a good inspection and thought it was move in ready. We have had to fix or replace a lot, and still have more to do - along with all the unfinished projects).

[alien_host]

We bought a house last summer and we opted to redo the kitchen, one bath, refinish hardwoods, paint the entire interior and recarpet the bedrooms. I do not consider this a fixer upper by any stretch but we opted NOT to live in the house while the work was being done. And we hired a general contractor.

There was no way we (well I and DD) could have survived the construction on a day to day basis. It took 3 months and was worth not living here during it. We were here everyday, checking on the contractors etc.

My DH is VERY handy but there was no way we'd tackle a kitchen and a bath on our own, we'd be divorced if we did. There is just no time during the week and weekends go fast. It was worth it to us to pay someone.

So you have to decide, will you do the work yourself or hire someone. And if you opt to do it yourself, are you willing to live with what you currently have, in case you don't have time to get to that project....for example I lived with this butt ugly wallpaper at my old house for 8 years b/c it wasn't a priority.