This story has me so upset

[strollerqueen]

It's been blanketing the air waves here all day. It is so disturbing to me on so many levels, especially because my DD is 11. I can not understand why she never ran away. 11 seems too old to forget about her family. :nodno:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/28/2670153.htm

[kijip]

From what I heard on the radio the place that she was kept with her daughters was not openable from the inside and was soundproofed. And after a certain time, she likely was under a lot of control from abuse, isolation and sexual assault. Her daughters are 15 and 11...this guy was on parole and a registered sex offender to boot. Such a tragic and horrible crime. Let's not make the mistake of blaming a child victim for not running away. I was sexually assaulted at age 11 and told no one for years, even after I was logically completely safe from my rapist (we had moved far away) because the fear of telling was very, very powerful. I can see not being able to run at first and then not having the will to run later. How awful for her and her family and her daughters. I have been thinking about it all day since I heard about it. She is my age, I can't even fathom being held prisoner for 18 years. As I understand it the man's wife knew and is being charged with kidnapping as well. Utterly despicable.

[strollerqueen]

I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to blame the girl. I just look at my DD, and wonder how it could happen to her, and if she would try to escape...I wondered the same thing about Elizabeth Smart, the girl in Utah who became the crazy guy's second wife. She was even older. Anyway, back to the story of Jaycee Dugard...several people were calling in to a radio program that I was listening to. They had done business with the predator/captor Phillip Garrido. He was a printer, and had Jaycee working for him. She met with clients, who all said she was very professional, very nicely dressed, always smiling. So that was more what I was thinking about. The fact that she was out in public, talking to people and not escaping. As an adult, I mean, not as a child. I understand how terrified and beat down she was when she was younger. But, I wonder why, as a grown woman, nothing triggered her to leave? I guess I don't understand the psychology of brain-washing.

[egoldber]

But, I wonder why, as a grown woman, nothing triggered her to leave?

Why do so many grown women stay in physically and psychologically abusive relationships? Because they think they have no power, no control and that on some level they deserve it. These cases take it to a whole new level, but it happens every day in more houses than you think. :(

[infomama]

Why do so many grown women stay in physically and psychologically abusive relationships? Because they think they have no power, no control and that on some level they deserve it. These cases take it to a whole new level, but it happens every day in more houses than you think. :(
How true and how sad. Also, they often feel that they can 'save' the man..that if they just try a little harder he will be that knight in shining armor they wish him to be.

[mytwosons]

But, I wonder why, as a grown woman, nothing triggered her to leave? I guess I don't understand the psychology of brain-washing.

They might have also threatened her children with harm.

[jenny]

i thought it was so sad too. the kidnappers could have also threatened the girl, saying they were going to kill her family if she tried to run.

I'm glad she finally told someone who she really is and that she is going to be reunited with her family.

I've looked up to see if there are any sex offenders in my area, and of course there are. It makes me wary of letting DD get too far away from me b/c the fear is in the back of my head that anyone can jump out of a car and just snatch her...ugh.

[Andi98989]

Stockholm Syndrome was the first thing I thought of when I heard this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[BabyMine]

I saw on the Today show that she sympathizes with the abductors. I know this happens with kidnap victums that have been with their abductors. She had been with them longer than her own family. I feel so happy and sad for her and her family. I am happy that she has been found but the tramatic experience she has been through will garner years of therapy. I can't imagine the guilt the family feels.

[Ceepa]

It makes me so angry. I hope those two get what they deserve.

[wellyes]

I can't imagine how psychologically damaging it must be to be ripped from your family, basically tortured, kept in isolation for YEARS. What do you do when the man who rapes you constantly is the father of your child that you love? Just terrible. I am so happy that she's free now and I hope that she and her children can heal and find some normalcy.

[LexyLou]

This story has me sick to my stomach. I'm such a liberal but this is one thing I'm pretty conservative about. Registered sex offenders should always be on a register and should always get intense home visits. This shouldn't have happened. So, so sad.

I mean, she's reunited with her mom, but as crazy and horrible her captivity has been, it's the only life she knows and her poor children. How do they go on to live a normal life?

[nov04]

I can't even fathom Jaycee's strength. She lasted almost 20 years with no medical attention, even through 2 births, then first one being at 14!!! She's amazing.

[wendmatt]

It's just too awful for words, and the wife in on it too is just so sick. Also the poor step father was under suspicion all this time. That poor family

[Nooknookmom]

This is sickening. It confirms my thoughts that registers sex offenders should never, ever, ever be considered *rehabilitated* and left under little or no supervision. Once that psychological trigger is in there they are a ticking time bomb.

I remember this poor little girls story when it happened (her name was so cute), uh, how awful to have to bear his children and love them, yet know that monster is the father.

I hope she's able to find some normalicy for herself and the girls.

[Nooknookmom]

I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to blame the girl. I just look at my DD, and wonder how it could happen to her, and if she would try to escape...I wondered the same thing about Elizabeth Smart, the girl in Utah who became the crazy guy's second wife. She was even older. Anyway, back to the story of Jaycee Dugard...several people were calling in to a radio program that I was listening to. They had done business with the predator/captor Phillip Garrido. He was a printer, and had Jaycee working for him. She met with clients, who all said she was very professional, very nicely dressed, always smiling. So that was more what I was thinking about. The fact that she was out in public, talking to people and not escaping. As an adult, I mean, not as a child. I understand how terrified and beat down she was when she was younger. But, I wonder why, as a grown woman, nothing triggered her to leave? I guess I don't understand the psychology of brain-washing.


I always wondered the same about my almost 14 yo. We started doing drills when she was 4, about how to escape, how to scream, what to do, etc. When a heartbreaking story would surface, I would get chills and wonder if my DD would try to fight.

Uuuuuuuhhhh, hope there never comes a time for the test.

[dcmom2b3]

There's a small, un-evolved part of my brain that keeps thinking two words:

"death penalty"

[Globetrotter]

It's inexcusable that a registered sex offender, who was having home visits (!) was not caught for doing this!!! WTH???

I know OP didn't mean to blame the victim, but keep in mind she was a little girl when she was abducted. Imagine the brainwashing..

[AnnieW625]

I was 14 at the time Jaycee was kidnapped and lived 2 hours away. My brother was 11 too and her kidnapping hit home because if it could happen to her it could happen to my brother. We walked or rode our bikes to school everyday, and when this happened the amount of kidnapping in Norcal had finally gone down or they had stopped being reported on like they had been in the 80s. I got in my car last night and the radio show hosts said they found a girl kidnapped from El Dorado County 18 years ago and I knew exactly who it was. The saddest part of that story for me when the kid napping happened was that summer break was to start a few days later.

I am glad she is safe, but I just don't know how she could've lived that long in fear. The radio show I listen to on the way home Jon & Ken was able to get ahold of some people who used to know the kidnapper and had done business with him. Go to this website if you want to listen to the interviews between 3 and 6 (it was very interesting): http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/johnandkenshow/index.html

[bubbaray]

This story is virtually idential to the ones from Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natascha_Kampusch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

[TwinFoxes]

This story is virtually idential to the ones from Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natascha_Kampusch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

Well the Fritzl case was even more disturbing because it was her father. There is no way she or her children/siblings are going to ever fully recover.

It just horrifies me to think that there are probably more people somewhere in the world being held captive like that. :cry: It's just so horrible.

[NancyJ_redo]

There's a small, un-evolved part of my brain that keeps thinking two words:

"death penalty"

The fully-evolved part of my brain is thinking death penalty. These two people committed what is most certainly one of the most horrific (or "several" of the most horrific) acts I can think of.

So of course hearing all of this on the news has got me thinking that I need to provide more safety education to my kids. I know this has been discussed in the past on here and I'll start searching old threads, but in the meantime if anyone wants to provide some recommendations for resources, I'm all ears :thumbsup:

[SASM]

I always wondered the same about my almost 14 yo. We started doing drills when she was 4, about how to escape, how to scream, what to do, etc. When a heartbreaking story would surface, I would get chills and wonder if my DD would try to fight.

Uuuuuuuhhhh, hope there never comes a time for the test.

Wow... This topic is something that I try to discuss with my kids on a regular basis and I hope and pray that what I am saying is actually sinking in. I've never actually tried drills, though. How did you approach this technique at such a young age??

Does anyone have any DVDs (for children) that they recommend on this subject? My kids have watched The Safe Side: Stranger Safety several times and I've been meaning to try to find it at our new library. Any other suggestions??

[bubbaray]

So of course hearing all of this on the news has got me thinking that I need to provide more safety education to my kids. I know this has been discussed in the past on here and I'll start searching old threads, but in the meantime if anyone wants to provide some recommendations for resources, I'm all ears :thumbsup:


http://www.thesafeside.com/?gclid=CMmS_f7qxpwCFRIcawodm1huJQ

[kijip]

Consider that in this other case, a man kidnapped, raped regularly and held captive 5 different women. 3 different women made reports after they were released and were not taken seriously or fully believed. This guy only got 18-life. One of his victims later committed suicide. It's so awful that the punishment is so light relative to the crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jamelske

[NancyJ_redo]

http://www.thesafeside.com/?gclid=CMmS_f7qxpwCFRIcawodm1huJQ

Thank you! I just put it on hold at my local library.

Melissa, you've responded to my requests for info in the past and I regularly see you respond to others, your help is much appreciated :hug:

[StantonHyde]

I just do NOT get how the wife played into this--totally, totally sicko. That poor girl/woman is never going to be normal and her kids aren't either. (Can you imagine finding out that your father is a pedophile who kidnapped and raped your mother????) Thank God she and the children are healthy.

I totally agree that sexual predators should be confined indefinitely--its not the first time they have done something, its the first time they got caught. I can sort of understand that someone could be convicted of rape and then paroled after an extended period of time. But if they do it again--that's it, throw away the key!!! (I feel the same about people with multiple DUIS)

As for not self-rescuing--even adults fall into the Stockholm Syndrome. Children would be totally brainwashed.

Elizabeth Smart is doing well (my front yard overlooks her back yard) and I see her running in the neighborhood sometimes (always with a friend). There were lots of weird things with that story and how the family handled the aftermath was odd at times--on the one hand wanting privacy and on the other practically pandering to have their story sold to make up the money it had cost them for PR people etc. I run the canyon where she was taken several times a week.

The thing to remember is that these cases really are a teeny/tiny percentage of child abductions/abuse. It still totally freaks me out and I do not want my child to be that one person. ugh.

[ha98ed14]

Why do so many grown women stay in physically and psychologically abusive relationships? Because they think they have no power, no control and that on some level they deserve it. These cases take it to a whole new level, but it happens every day in more houses than you think. :(

Exactly. This story illustrates the power than a parent can have over their adult children. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32592133/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[gatorsmom]

I hope the girls weren't sexually abused too.

I imagine the kidnappers told Jaycee her family was dead and that she had to come with them. They probably told her there was no one to take care of her but them. This was the case with Stephen Staynor. He didn't leave his abductor until the abductor threatened to kidnap another little boy and he didn't want that to happen.

Imagine if you are that young and are trying to avoid more abuse. You try your best behavior on them. You don't want them mad at you. You try to be "good." Also, after some time, even the most heinous people let their guard down and show their softer side. When you are away from home, scared and afraid you try to form emotional attachments with the people closest to you. I'm sure they told her all kinds of crazy stuff like how good she had it and they were doing such a good job of taking care of her and whatever. Besides, once she had the children, I"m sure they threatened that she could never leave because the kidnapper was the father. And lets not forget the emotional attachment that forms when you start having sex with someone.... I'm not surprise she didn't leave.

Anyway, we have the Safe Side video and it's ok. I think it's too complicated for my 4yo. If anyone has some other good recommendations for younger children stranger safety, I"d be very interested.

[brittone2]

Just agreeing w/ the PPs about Stockholm Syndrome. It seems crazy that someone wouldn't fight/run, but it is apparently a pretty common occurrence in cases like this.

How awful.

[Snow mom]

Another famous abduction where the child turned up much later was Steven Stayner. They made a movie about his life that I remember seeing as a child. He died very young, in a motor cycle accident I believe. His older brother was convicted of killing some tourists near Yosemite, which he blamed on the abduction of his brother. I don't think there is such a thing as getting back to normal after being held for so many years. I have no idea what the best we can wish for is for these young girls and their mom. I hope they find some peace in their lives.

[strollerqueen]

This story is virtually idential to the ones from Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natascha_Kampusch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case


Ugh, I know, I thought about that. I had hoped I never heard another story that bad in my lifetime. It is so chilling to me that there may be other stories out there like this, that we just don't know about...:nodno:

[strollerqueen]

I imagine the kidnappers told Jaycee her family was dead and that she had to come with them. They probably told her there was no one to take care of her but them. This was the case with Stephen Staynor. He didn't leave his abductor until the abductor threatened to kidnap another little boy and he didn't want that to happen.



Yeah, I went over that scenario with my DD last night. I told her to never believe that story. That I would always love her, and I would always be searching for her, and always waiting for her. :cry: In terms of what you can do, I have always role-played with her, and the neighborhood children. I drive up in the car, and ask them for directions, or tell them that I am looking for a lost puppy, or ask them if they want chocolate, etc. etc. It's funny that different some of the scenarios would continue to work, even though we had rehearsed and rehearsed. I tell them to never go near the car, because then someone can grab you and pull you in. I tell them the ONLY response is to scream and run away as fast as you can.

[gatorsmom]

I totally agree that sexual predators should be confined indefinitely--its not the first time they have done something, its the first time they got caught.

I agree with this. I think that it is nearly impossible for a sexual predator to become reformed.

[strollerqueen]

I agree with this. I think that it is nearly impossible for a sexual predator to become reformed.

That is what I have heard psychologists say. We had a case here of a child molester who was about to be released from prison. He begged them to castrate him, because he said he could not control his urges once he was set free.

[egoldber]

It's funny that different some of the scenarios would continue to work, even though we had rehearsed and rehearsed. I tell them to never go near the car, because then someone can grab you and pull you in. I tell them the ONLY response is to scream and run away as fast as you can.

This is why the stranger danger type programs don't really work. Children generally don't have the capacity for the impulse control to be able restrain from going to see the puppy or refusing the chocolate, etc.

[Globetrotter]

When I was a kid, my friend and I were approached by a strange guy while we were walking home.

LIke fools, we spoke to him, but suddenly something clicked and I started walking away. We're just lucky... and my biggest regret is, to this day, never telling my parents about it. They were already strict and I was scared they would never let me go anywhere again (I realize how ridiculous that sounds now, but I guess you had to be in my head to get it!).

A few days later he was arrested for kidnapping a girl in our complex.. it could have been us, and we could have prevented it. I guess the message is to be approachable so your kids will talk to you. I never told my parents anything that was going on with me - we never had (still don't have) that type of relationship.

I'm working hard to establish that bond with my own kids.

[brittone2]

This is why the stranger danger type programs don't really work. Children generally don't have the capacity for the impulse control to be able restrain from going to see the puppy or refusing the chocolate, etc.

Yep, and those shows like Dateline and 20/20 have done many shows through the years showing kids that when asked "what would you do if a stranger drove up in a car and offered you candy?" will say "run away. Get help." But when they do a hidden camera investigation w/ the parents permission (and the parents are saying my kid knows not to get in a car w/ a stranger), the kids go right to the car/stranger.

That is what makes it so hard...I don't know what the answer is.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This is so hard now because as much as I want to talk to ds1 about this I don't think he could handle it emotionally. I have covered it before on several occasions but it has been a while. I've told him even if someone threatens mom and dad that he should still run, scream, whatever because mom and dad can protect themselves- he doesn't need to worry about us.

Ds1 is still so scared of fires and dying right now that I can't anything else for him to worry about or the poor kid will never let us leave him unattended in a room (like while we cook dinner and he watches tv). It's so hard to find the line of sharing really important information and scaring them. kwim?

Beth

[Laurel]

These stories are terrible and everyone worries about such horrific abductions. I just want to remind everyone that they are incredibly rare. Out of the around 100 stranger abductions reported annually in the U.S., about 40% of the children are killed or never recovered. Yes, that is 100 children too many, but the odds of your child being abducted by a stranger are extremely low.

ETA: Instilling your child with a high self-esteem, some defense skills and a sense that others should not be allowed to make them uncomfortable will go further in protecting them than rehearsing scary abduction scenarios, IMO.

[vludmilla]

These stories are terrible and everyone worries about such horrific abductions. I just want to remind everyone that they are incredibly rare. Out of the around 100 stranger abductions reported annually in the U.S., about 40% of the children are killed or never recovered. Yes, that is 100 children too many, but the odds of your child being abducted by a stranger are extremely low.

ETA: Instilling your child with a high self-esteem, some defense skills and a sense that others should not be allowed to make them uncomfortable will go further in protecting them than rehearsing scary abduction scenarios, IMO.

Well said. I agree. I also really like the Gavin DeBecker books for this purpose.

[strollerqueen]

ETA: Instilling your child with a high self-esteem, some defense skills and a sense that others should not be allowed to make them uncomfortable will go further in protecting them than rehearsing scary abduction scenarios, IMO.

To each his own. I think it is important. We also do Tae Kwan Do, other activities to raise self-esteem, and yes, we talk about how it is not OK for strangers to grab them, hug them, kiss them, touch them inappropriately, etc. I do not believe it has to be an either or scenario, it can be both.

[graciebellesmomma]

I live 10 minutes from South Lake Tahoe, which is where she was abducted from. We were at a back to school event last night and the 6th grade teacher had been Jaycee's 3rd grade teacher. We were discussing it before we knew any of the details, just that she'd been found. Lots of tears amongst the long time Tahoe folks.

I think that he should be hung by his testicles till death and his wife should be tortured, somehow. And I am a gentle person. I just can't fathom what they have done to that poor girl and her children. To think of her giving birth to two babies in a shed, under garbage bags, just kills me. Nothing can be horrible enough for those two.

It is horrible to say, but I'd rather my daughter be killed right away, then be raped etc. for years....I am just so sick and sad over it....that poor girl. Her poor family. Her poor stepfather. He said that he was a suspect until yesterday. From the time he was 42 until now, when he is 60. Can you imagine.

Horrific. Just horrific.

[rlu]

A later article with more details regarding the possible serial killer aspect of this case. Also, according to her step-dad who has been the spokesperson, Jaycee considered herself in a marriage like arrangement with the guy. She went out in public and interacted with his clients.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13227420

It's not in this particular article but a previous article mentioned the wife matches the description of the lady who pulled Jaycee into the car.

Just sicken by this. I was so happy yesterday to hear they had found one of the lost kids that haunt my youth.

[graciebellesmomma]

omg, that article just makes it worse....ugh.

the pictures of that backyard. all of it. tragic.

[blisstwins]

It is so tragic and it makes me think of Madeleine McCann. I cannot imagine the hell a parent goes through.

[MamaKath]

Very scary story, especially when you know the guy is registered, had officers at his door to "check" on him, the parole and sheriffs officers did not communicate, and he is suspected to be involved in the serial killing of prostitutes.

I can not even begin to imagine what her family and community have gone through during this time!!!

[kijip]

From the Huffington Post:


But neighbors said there were clues even before a parole agent on Wednesday noticed Dugard, now 29, who accompanied Garrido, his wife and the children to a parole office.

Neighbor Diane Doty said she could see the tents and often heard children playing in the backyard, the corner of which abuts her own backyard. She said she even suspected the children lived in the tents, but her husband said she should leave the family alone.

"I asked my husband, 'Why is he living in tents?'" she said. "And he said, 'Maybe that is how they like to live.'"

This is WHY "mind your own business" is not always the best solution/answer. If I had kept my mouth shut out of consideration for my neighbor and found out what this lady did, I would have a very hard time forgiving myself.

ITA with pp that stranger abduction is a very rare thing...it gets the lion's share of the prevention message on child abuse and rape but is only a miniscule portion of a HUGE problem.