What do you think about the stoller ban.

[BabyMine]

I heard this on the radio and had mixed emotions.

I can sorta understand the owners idea behind banning them. I am just wondering how many double/triple stollers she gets in her store that this is a problem. I have a double and I have never had a problem with it. If I did break something I would pay for it but I shouldn't be banned from a store just in case. I know it is her store and she can do anything she wants but is banning them the answer?

What do you think?




http://www.digitalcity.com/2009/08/27/doublewide-stroller-ban-divides-new-jersey-town/


"It's important to note that I like children and believe they are the future. You just need to teach them well and let them lead the way. However (to continue with Whitney), I decided long ago to never walk in anyone's shadow, especially the shadow of a massive doublewide baby stroller (http://shopping.aol.com/twin+strollers/baby-strollers-page-1997/) being leisurely pushed down a crowded Manhattan sidewalk clogging foot traffic.

Like pollution and crime, I thought doublewide strollers were a big city issue. I was wrong. There's a doublewide stroller battle raging in Westfrield, N.J. and it's getting ugly."

[edurnemk]

I just think it'a waste of energy to get in such a frenzy over this.

Some stores in my area, ask for strollers to be parked outside during the winter. I get that they don't want you to track snow on their carpets, and I dont' mind because it's their store. If I didn't like it I could just not shop there and take my business elsewhere.

I honestly think these moms are overreacting and taking it too personally. I'm sure he posted that sign because of some incident involving a double stroller. I know it's really inconvenient to have to take two kids out of the stroller, and if they're twins or both really young, you couldn't carry both. But like I said, if you don't like it or find it inconvenient, just don't shop there. Ultimately is the guy's store he can do whatever he wants, if he's not breaking some law.

[Ceepa]

I just think it'a waste of energy to get in such a frenzy over this.

Some stores in my area, ask for strollers to be parked outside during the winter. I get that they don't want you to track snow on their carpets, and I dont' mind because it's their store. If I didn't like it I could just not shop there and take my business elsewhere.

I honestly think these moms are overreacting and taking it too personally. I'm sure he posted that sign because of some incident involving a double stroller. I know it's really inconvenient to have to take two kids out of the stroller, and if they're twins or both really young, you couldn't carry both. But like I said, if you don't like it or find it inconvenient, just don't shop there. Ultimately is the guy's store he can do whatever he wants, if he's not breaking some law.

I agree. People don't have to shop there and the business owner accepts that he could lose business.

[infocrazy]

I think it's getting blown out of proportion. It's his choice, and he knows he may lose some customers...

Although, if people take in their toddlers without the stroller...he may have 2 bulls in his china shop!

[arivecchi]

I agree with PPs. I just don't shop in places that are hard for me to maneuver with a stroller or that I feel are not welcoming to children.

[codex57]

Those moms mentioned in that article shouldn't have reproduced. I feel sorry for those kids having those kinds of people for parents. Likening a stroller to a person in a wheelchair? That's an insult and a step back against disabled people everywhere.

And yes, I have a double wide stroller.

[s7714]

I've been to plenty of stores that don't allow strollers in them and it doesn't bother me. Even a local zoo doesn't allow strollers in its gift shop.

Personally I'd rather they be forthcoming and post a sign, so I can avoid the store rather than go in only to realize there's not enough room or that the owner is the type to watch you like a potential criminal just because you have kids and/or a stroller.

On the other side of the issue, I will say that we had a lot of theft involving strollers when I was managing a toy store so I can see banning them for that reason too. People would try to slip stuff into the baskets or under blankets and walk out with it. (Now don't get me wrong, I mean these people intentionally placed the items in their strollers with the intent to steal them--I'm not talking about the "oops I forgot" or "I didn't realize my DC put that in there" situations that we've all been in.) We had one set of women bring in an empty stroller with a blanket covering it like there was a baby sleeping in it. They loaded up almost $400 in merchandise under that blanket and walked out the door (where they were promptly stopped and held for the police of course). I totally understand retail shop owners posting such signs out of wanting to protect their investment either from damage or theft.

[TwinFoxes]

I would take my business elsewhere, and not give it another thought.

[DrSally]

What if you have triplets?

[maestramommy]

I am a little:p that such a huge uproar is over a stroller ban. And the threats and hate mail to the owner of the store is just way over the top. If he accepts he may lose some business, then it's his right not to have large strollers in his store. If room is that tight, why would anyone with a double wide want to take it in there anyway? It'd be a nightmare to maneuver.

Course I'm biased because the only double(wide) stroller I have is a jogger, and I've used it only once.

[DeeEast]

What I don't understand is that our double-wide stroller (we have twins) is the same width as a wheelchair. So if the store can't accommodate our stroller, then it obviously can't accommodate a wheelchair.

[blisstwins]

the tone, the craziness, the threats are all unacceptable, but as a mom of twins I have to tell you that I often thought of people with disabilities as I struggled to live life with my twins when they were babies. I did not have help and I lived in the city, so strollers were a necessary part of life. It was SO HARD to do the little things I needed to do sometimes and my stollers was 31", the exact width of a wheelchair. I often thought, with great empathy, that as hard as it was for my the stroller situation was temporary but what a crime for people in wheelchairs to have to deal with narrow aisles, boxes in aisles, funky stairs and missing ramps ALL THE TIME. Having children is a fact of life. I won't take them to the opera, but I do need to get into the supermarket to buy milk, which was an ordeal for me. I guess all I am saying is that the comparison of strollers and wheelchairs is a little apt, depending on context and intent.

[TwinFoxes]

I am a little:p that such a huge uproar is over a stroller ban. And the threats and hate mail to the owner of the store is just way over the top. If he accepts he may lose some business, then it's his right not to have large strollers in his store. If room is that tight, why would anyone with a double wide want to take it in there anyway? It'd be a nightmare to maneuver.

Course I'm biased because the only double(wide) stroller I have is a jogger, and I've used it only once.

I'm not defending anyone, but apparently his original sign said "no dogs or doublewide strollers". If you're familiar with race relations in this country, you'll know that there used to be signs like that where "Jews" or "Coloreds" took the place of strollers. He was being an ass about it, but then after the brouhaha he put a polite sign up. The original sign is what pissed people off.

That being said, I stick by my original statement. I'd take my business elsewhere and not give it another thought.

[kijip]

If he does not mind losing the business of moms with big strollers, then that's his prerogative as far as I am concerned. He should have the right to decide if he wants strollers in his store or not, just like people have the right to decide if they want to shop there or not. It seems like stores apt to do this are gifty artsy type places and not places parents tend to have urgent errands. I would be irked if, say, a grocery store said no strollers...but a peddler of glass doodad and ceramics? Not so much.

[nov04]

What I don't understand is that our double-wide stroller (we have twins) is the same width as a wheelchair. So if the store can't accommodate our stroller, then it obviously can't accommodate a wheelchair.

That's what I wondered about.

[strollerqueen]

I just think it'a waste of energy to get in such a frenzy over this.

Some stores in my area, ask for strollers to be parked outside during the winter. I get that they don't want you to track snow on their carpets, and I dont' mind because it's their store. If I didn't like it I could just not shop there and take my business elsewhere.

I honestly think these moms are overreacting and taking it too personally. I'm sure he posted that sign because of some incident involving a double stroller. I know it's really inconvenient to have to take two kids out of the stroller, and if they're twins or both really young, you couldn't carry both. But like I said, if you don't like it or find it inconvenient, just don't shop there. Ultimately is the guy's store he can do whatever he wants, if he's not breaking some law.

:yeahthat: Geez, don't people have anything better to do? You'd think they all live in Strollerland or something! :loveeyes:

[strollerqueen]

I'm not defending anyone, but apparently his original sign said "no dogs or doublewide strollers". If you're familiar with race relations in this country, you'll know that there used to be signs like that where "Jews" or "Coloreds" took the place of strollers. He was being an ass about it, but then after the brouhaha he put a polite sign up. The original sign is what pissed people off.

That being said, I stick by my original statement. I'd take my business elsewhere and not give it another thought.

Yeah, we have an old sign that says "No dogs or Irish allowed.":32:

[veronica]

I lived in Westfield for a few years and now live in a resort town with many stores that have the same requirements.

Honestly, I think the ban is just as good for the store oweners as it if for the families with strollers.

These are both old, historic towns. buildings are old, small and much of the merchandise is very delicate. Strollers can barely fit in the doorways much less navigate in the stores. Most stores are very small and cramped, filled to the gills.

Maybe I'm the dissenting opinion, but I *prefer* to go in without a stroller!

[Melaine]

My first thought is that these stores must not be handicap accessible and that is a little disconcerting. Since there were so many months when I physically couldn't shop without a double stroller, I would probably be a little offended to see that kind of sign. Particularly since most of us specifically buy a double stroller that is as small or smaller than wheelchair specs for a reason, so that we can have as much access as possible. I would never make a fuss about this, since I understand the owner's reasoning as well, but I personally would skip shopping at such a store, period.

[maestramommy]

I'm not defending anyone, but apparently his original sign said "no dogs or doublewide strollers". If you're familiar with race relations in this country, you'll know that there used to be signs like that where "Jews" or "Coloreds" took the place of strollers. He was being an ass about it, but then after the brouhaha he put a polite sign up. The original sign is what pissed people off.

That being said, I stick by my original statement. I'd take my business elsewhere and not give it another thought.

Wow, I would've never thought of that. I knew about the racial signs in the past of course, but saying, "no Jews" or "coloreds" seems so far away from "no dogs" or "doublewide strollers."

[fivi2]

the tone, the craziness, the threats are all unacceptable, but as a mom of twins I have to tell you that I often thought of people with disabilities as I struggled to live life with my twins when they were babies. I did not have help and I lived in the city, so strollers were a necessary part of life. It was SO HARD to do the little things I needed to do sometimes and my stollers was 31", the exact width of a wheelchair. I often thought, with great empathy, that as hard as it was for my the stroller situation was temporary but what a crime for people in wheelchairs to have to deal with narrow aisles, boxes in aisles, funky stairs and missing ramps ALL THE TIME. Having children is a fact of life. I won't take them to the opera, but I do need to get into the supermarket to buy milk, which was an ordeal for me. I guess all I am saying is that the comparison of strollers and wheelchairs is a little apt, depending on context and intent.

ITA with this and with the poster who said that if they can't accomodate a double then they can't fit a wheelchair either. and that is a problem.

Sure they can do what they want wrt to strollers and I probably wouldn't take my stroller in an antique or whatever store, but for many of us who had twins, there are certain places we HAD to be able to go with a double. and like pp, I took wheelchair dimensions into account when purchasing my double. And when they don't fit in a store, it does make me want to find out how ada compliant they really are. (but the nasty letters and such are not appropriate).

[TwinFoxes]

Wow, I would've never thought of that. I knew about the racial signs in the past of course, but saying, "no Jews" or "coloreds" seems so far away from "no dogs" or "doublewide strollers."

The sign said "No dogs or double wide strollers" just like Strollerqueens "no dogs or Irish" sign. The verbiage was exactly the same. It's a phrase that a lot of people are famliar with. Other stores in the town have similar policies, but it was his sign that got people up in arms. But let me say again, I'm NOT defending them! :)

[DrSally]

I'm not defending anyone, but apparently his original sign said "no dogs or doublewide strollers". If you're familiar with race relations in this country, you'll know that there used to be signs like that where "Jews" or "Coloreds" took the place of strollers. He was being an ass about it, but then after the brouhaha he put a polite sign up. The original sign is what pissed people off.

That being said, I stick by my original statement. I'd take my business elsewhere and not give it another thought.

Now that is really jerky. I can understand his right not to want strollers in his store, I've run into that a few times and either I take DD out or don't go into the store. But, to phrase it like that is just being an a#@.

[lizzywednesday]

I work near Westfield and I can tell you it's got a cute little downtown area with lots of (tight-fitting) chi-chi boutiques. It's also a relatively well-to-do area, so there's lots of entitlement fights. They have a stand-alone Lord & Taylor on the main drag for crying all night (I pass it every day on my way to work.)

It has tons of sidewalks (unlike many NJ towns) and is a VERY walkable suburb, so strollers are going to be an issue everywhere. (As long as the people pushing them don't jaywalk while I'm making my emergency run to Trader Joe's for JoJos, I'm good. Otherwise, I thank my mechanic for replacing my brake pads recently.)

Many of the people who live there are professionals who may have delayed childbearing, so they're more inclined to have multiples or DC in strollers at the same time.

I am not excusing the ban, just trying to put it into context.

It's easy to take an article like this out of context and blow up about it

[BabyMine]

I work near Westfield and I can tell you it's got a cute little downtown area with lots of (tight-fitting) chi-chi boutiques. It's also a relatively well-to-do area, so there's lots of entitlement fights. They have a stand-alone Lord & Taylor on the main drag for crying all night (I pass it every day on my way to work.)

It has tons of sidewalks (unlike many NJ towns) and is a VERY walkable suburb, so strollers are going to be an issue everywhere. (As long as the people pushing them don't jaywalk while I'm making my emergency run to Trader Joe's for JoJos, I'm good. Otherwise, I thank my mechanic for replacing my brake pads recently.)

Many of the people who live there are professionals who may have delayed childbearing, so they're more inclined to have multiples or DC in strollers at the same time.

I am not excusing the ban, just trying to put it into context.

It's easy to take an article like this out of context and blow up about it

I was wondering about the area around this store. Where I am in Florida and we don't have to worry about snow and our stores can accomidate doubles. But our stores have been built within the last 10 years.

[lizzywednesday]

I was wondering about the area around this store. Where I am in Florida and we don't have to worry about snow and our stores can accomidate doubles. But our stores have been built within the last 10 years.

It's an older, monied suburb; we don't have too many "new construction" downtowns like this in the area of NJ where Westfield is located.

Even driving is an adventure because the streets are narrowed as they do allow on-street parking on both sides for 2-way streets, and there are a lot of oblique intersections. (If you do not know what an oblique intersection is, it's hard to explain ... I will have to find a picture.)

[AnnieW625]

I agree with PPs. I just don't shop in places that are hard for me to maneuver with a stroller or that I feel are not welcoming to children.

:yeahthat: Plus it seems like common sense to keep kids out of places where they can get easily get into things that are their level when they are in a stroller.

[brittone2]

I don't give my business to those who aren't welcoming to children.

In my parents' small town nearby, there was this really cute little gourmet market and deli in town that we liked to have lunch at. Super cute. Nice selection of gift baskets and gourmet goodies on shelves, and then an eating area with tables, etc. and a small deli counter. It was a "nicer" deli-fancier versions of salads, chicken salads, nice soups, etc. but not an upscale "restaurant" by any means, kwim?

One day I noticed on the menu the owner had actually written "your children are welcome to eat here, but if they are crying, please take them outside". Umm...Okay. I usually do take my children outside if they are being loud or not exhibiting restaurant behavior, but I have never, ever, ever been to a restaurant or place of business that put it in writing! Even places *far* more upscale than this place LOL. Yeah, it is a cute place, but one I'd say is totally reasonable for two moms to meet up and have lunch with their kiddos, kwim? And yes, I take my kids outside or whatever when they are disruptive at pretty much any place of business. But what about moms with infants? Should they abandon their lunch if their newborn cries? It just really, really rubbed me the wrong way and from that point on I told my parents I refused to eat there. I realize some parents allow their kids to be far too disruptive, but I just didn't appreciate this being in type on the menu at this place, kwim?

They did eventually go out of business anyway, fortunately or unfortunately.

(eta: those situations always make me feel like it is one of the things that contribute to mommy depression/post partum depression, etc. The feeling as a new mom that you can't easily leave the house with a young child, the feeling some moms have about not being sure how a business owner will handle NIP, etc. kwim? I also just felt putting that in writing on the menu put me on edge...is my kid being too noisy? ARe we being watched? Will we be asked to leave? etc. which is ridiculous frankly considering my kids usually are pretty decently behaved in restaurants, and for crying out loud, it was basically an upscale deli, not some 5 star restaurant.)

[maestramommy]

I work near Westfield and I can tell you it's got a cute little downtown area with lots of (tight-fitting) chi-chi boutiques. It's also a relatively well-to-do area, so there's lots of entitlement fights. They have a stand-alone Lord & Taylor on the main drag for crying all night (I pass it every day on my way to work.)

It has tons of sidewalks (unlike many NJ towns) and is a VERY walkable suburb, so strollers are going to be an issue everywhere. (As long as the people pushing them don't jaywalk while I'm making my emergency run to Trader Joe's for JoJos, I'm good. Otherwise, I thank my mechanic for replacing my brake pads recently.)

Many of the people who live there are professionals who may have delayed childbearing, so they're more inclined to have multiples or DC in strollers at the same time.

I am not excusing the ban, just trying to put it into context.

It's easy to take an article like this out of context and blow up about it

I have a cousin who is moving there this week from Summit. She just moved to NJ from MI in the spring, and one of the first things she had to do was get a double stroller that wasn't a side by side. She told me the sidewalks there are just so narrow, maneuvering something like a BOB duaille just doesn't work. She ended up getting a P&T Sport, which is perfect if you need a double.

[wellyes]

A guy with a pottery store bans extra-large strollers and get hate mail over it? That's just nutty. I think it's perfectly reasonable to not shop there, even without the kiddos, if you dislike the policy. But hate mail?


I do think it's entirely reasonable that stores are forced to make accommodations for the disabled. But every store being forced / socially pressured to accommodate children or big strollers is not anywhere near the same level to me. Not making stores accomodate the disabled puts disabled people into a permenant kind of second-class citizenship. Not making stores accomodate big strollers inconveniences parents when they are using big strollers. BFD.



One day I noticed on the menu the owner had actually written "your children are welcome to eat here, but if they are crying, please take them outside". Umm...Okay. I usually do take my children outside if they are being loud or not exhibiting restaurant behavior, but I have never, ever, ever been to a restaurant or place of business that put it in writing! Even places *far* more upscale than this place LOL. Yeah, it is a cute place, but one I'd say is totally reasonable for two moms to meet up and have lunch with their kiddos, kwim? And yes, I take my kids outside or whatever when they are disruptive at pretty much any place of business. But what about moms with infants? Should they abandon their lunch if their newborn cries? It just really, really rubbed me the wrong way and from that point on I told my parents I refused to eat there. I realize some parents allow their kids to be far too disruptive, but I just didn't appreciate this being in type on the menu at this place, kwim?I see that perspective but at the same time, IMO the comfort of one mom doesn't always outweigh the comfort of every other person at the establishment. I'd agree with you if the menu was asking moms not to nurse, though.

[brittone2]

I see that perspective but at the same time, IMO the comfort of one mom doesn't always outweigh the comfort of every other person at the establishment. I'd agree with you if the menu was asking moms not to nurse, though.

Well, I agree as a business owner he can write that he wants children taken outside if they start crying (eta: beyond a little fussing). And as I said, I do that with my kids. I just found it a bit over the top to put it on writing in the menu since it was a *deli*. I just chose not to give them my business at that point...and my parents and the kids and I previously ate lunch there quite a bit (prior to the little addition being added to the menu).

There was nothing about cell phone use or similar disruptions.

But, as long as he's operating within the law (not throwing out nursing moms in a state like ours where NIP is legally protected), he can do what he wants. I just refused to give him my business.

[DietCokeLover]

As a business owner, that is certainly his perogative. However, as a mom who is entirely dependent on being able to function with a double stroller it is annoying to me.

But, I can't see making threats to the guy! That's just nuts. I'd just find a new place to shop.

[momof2girls]

I am very familiar with Westfield and yes it is a monied town with lots of people with attitute and entitlement issues. I am sure a lot of residents just send their nannies out with the stroller anyway.
This brought to mind a local establishment in my town with a ridiculous sign. It is an ICE CREAM palor and has a very long list in front of the register that says:
No Running
No Screaming
No Heelies
No Pushing
No Spinning
No Skipping

The list goes on and on for at least another 5 rules of behavior and just gets more and more crazy considering it is an ICE CREAM palor that advertises everywhere that is it a great place for kids parties. The owner told me she put it there as parents requested she do so. I am waiting to see if No Smiling will be added next. While I agree running and shouting are innappropriate, No Spinning for some reason seems like the owner is just being a stickler looking to nail kids for any little infringelment. We don't go there anymore.
Sorry To Highjack!

[Nooknookmom]

I heard this on the radio and had mixed emotions.

I can sorta understand the owners idea behind banning them. I am just wondering how many double/triple stollers she gets in her store that this is a problem. I have a double and I have never had a problem with it. If I did break something I would pay for it but I shouldn't be banned from a store just in case. I know it is her store and she can do anything she wants but is banning them the answer?

What do you think?




http://www.digitalcity.com/2009/08/27/doublewide-stroller-ban-divides-new-jersey-town/


"It's important to note that I like children and believe they are the future. You just need to teach them well and let them lead the way. However (to continue with Whitney), I decided long ago to never walk in anyone's shadow, especially the shadow of a massive doublewide baby stroller (http://shopping.aol.com/twin+strollers/baby-strollers-page-1997/) being leisurely pushed down a crowded Manhattan sidewalk clogging foot traffic.

Like pollution and crime, I thought doublewide strollers were a big city issue. I was wrong. There's a doublewide stroller battle raging in Westfrield, N.J. and it's getting ugly."

Our town has a lot of small-artsy-knick-knacky stores in it & they also ban strollers. I don't shop there. The store's usually aren't my style anyway and if I can't bring in my stroller (which also houses my purse) guess I can't buy anthing!! ;)

[codex57]

But, I can't see making threats to the guy! That's just nuts. I'd just find a new place to shop.

Such reasonable responses. Gratified, but not surprised, to see it's the basic response to this. Those Westfield parents raising all this fuss need to be neutered. More than likely their kids are gonna be holy nightmares with crazy entitlement issues too growing up with parents like that.

[TonFirst]

Um, I assume you're being facetious about the neutering thing.

Honestly, it's that business owner's bottom line, and there's probably nothing in that store that can't be found elsewhere. Besides, how many parents who have enough kids to warrant a double or triple stroller have enough free time to write hate mail, anyway? I know I don't!