Anyone's DS in cub scouts?

[ett]

We just got a flyer today for Cub scouts (tiger cubs for 1st grade) and was wondering if anyone's DS was in cub scouts. How did your DS like it and what kind of activities did they do. Thanks!

[Tondi G]

I don't but I will be watching this thread. My DS has expressed interest in the boys scouts since he found his Dad's old uniform shirt! :)

I have a couple of friends in other states who's boys are in the scouts and they really like it!

[MelissaTC]

We are doing it this year. So far so good but we have really just started. It looks like there are a lot of cool things planned for the year like sleeping on a battleship, camping out at the zoo, several hikes, etc...

[brittone2]

I'm not sure how we would handle it if DS expressed an interest, because as a family we are opposed to their stance on homosexuality (unless it has changed and I'm not aware of the change). I know of several alternative scouting groups but they are more difficult to find.

[Ceepa]

I remember tagging along to all my brother's pack meetings and den meetings. They didn't go camping but had tons of outings and activities, learned outdoor skills and were involved with a lot of community events and people.

[kayte]

They are religious organization too (in that they require your declaration as a member of one to join). Though it is my understanding that while all require the statement of faith (which refers to God and other of their outlined moral code), each den interprets and uses the teaching materials differently. My nephew previously attended one where it was heavily used --in all the stories and lessons and has recently switched to a different pack where it is not stressed as much.

As Beth mentioned there are alternatives, if that is of concern to you.

edited to remove Christian and replace with religious

[mamicka]

They are Christian organization too. Though it is my understanding that while all require the statement of faith, each den interprets and uses the teaching materials differently. My nephew previously attended one where it was heavily used --in all the stories and lessons and has recently switched to a different pack where it is not stressed as much.

As Beth mentioned there are alternatives, if that is of concern to you.

I'm can't find anything saying that its a Christian organization, although it might be. "Duty to God" is a big principle in the scouting organization, although it isn't Christian-specific. There are scouting groups of all faiths.

[o_mom]

I'm can't find anything saying that its a Christian organization, although it might be. "Duty to God" is a big principle in the scouting organization, although it isn't Christian-specific. There are scouting groups of all faiths.

:yeahthat:

Even in my father's 50+ yo scout handbook, it says that all faiths are welcome.

[kayte]

:yeahthat:

Even in my father's 50+ yo scout handbook, it says that all faiths are welcome.

I did not say other faiths are not welcome. It is a strong religious organization and has been sued repeatedly in the past over expelling boys who state they do not believe in God.

I am NOT turning this into a religious discussion.

I was just informing the OP that it is a religious organization and that a lot of people unfamiliar with the Boy Scouts often do not know that it has anything to do with anything more than the outdoors.

I wanted her to have that fact in hand when making a decision to allow her son to join.

I am not saying it's right or wrong, I am just saying that have many religious policies (including the homosexuality clause) that do not jive with everyone.

[kayte]

"Duty to God" is a big principle in the scouting organization, although it isn't Christian-specific. There are scouting groups of all faiths.

This is true.

I know there is a Jewish Alliance of the Boy Scouts and their teaching materials are slightly different.

Plus the Mormon Church (who some may or may not classify as Christian) is a large financial contributor to the Boy Scouts (maybe even above the Roman Catholic church who is to or three).

My DH's muslim nephew belongs to a troop in Atlanta.

I am just remarking that there is a good deal of religious teaching-- centering around Duty to God-- and him as your ultimate Akela.

My neighbor prefers that her children receive any teaching about God in their home or their church and has opted to have her son join a different group.

[mamicka]

It is a strong religious (Christian) organization

I'm not being argumentative but I think this is not correct. I have found nothing on the BSA website stating anything about it being a Christian organization.

[Ceepa]

From the BSALeagal.org Web site (http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-195.asp)

Q. Why is duty to God important to Scouting?

A. Since its founding in the United States in 1910, the Boy Scouts of America has had an ongoing commitment to encouraging moral, ethical and spiritual growth. The Boy Scouts of America believes that the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are central to Boy Scouts’ goals.


Q. What harm would come of admitting young people who are unwilling to do their duty to God?

A. The Scout Oath and Law have served as the foundation of Scouting for 94 years. It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members of Scouting to allow members to pick and choose among the elements of the Oath or Law.

Q. How does the Boy Scouts of America define religion?

A. Boy Scouts of America is not a religion; it is a nonsectarian association of persons who believe in God. The Declaration of Religious Principle describes God in a broadly interfaith way as “the ruling and leading power in the universe” to whom we are grateful for “favors and blessings.”


Q. What religions are involved with Scouting?

A. Virtually every religion is represented in the Boy Scouts of America, from Catholics and Protestants, to the Armenian Church of America and Zoroastrians. The Religious Relationships Committee, which includes over 30 religious groups represented in Scouting, determines whether a religion is an appropriate partner for Scouting, and reviews any “duty to God” material which is to be used in Scouting for consistency with Boy Scout policies.

[mamicka]

From the BSALeagal.org Web site (http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-195.asp)

Q. Why is duty to God important to Scouting?

A. Since its founding in the United States in 1910, the Boy Scouts of America has had an ongoing commitment to encouraging moral, ethical and spiritual growth. The Boy Scouts of America believes that the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are central to Boy Scouts’ goals.


Q. What harm would come of admitting young people who are unwilling to do their duty to God?

A. The Scout Oath and Law have served as the foundation of Scouting for 94 years. It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members of Scouting to allow members to pick and choose among the elements of the Oath or Law.

Q. How does the Boy Scouts of America define religion?

A. Boy Scouts of America is not a religion; it is a nonsectarian association of persons who believe in God. The Declaration of Religious Principle describes God in a broadly interfaith way as “the ruling and leading power in the universe” to whom we are grateful for “favors and blessings.”


Q. What religions are involved with Scouting?

A. Virtually every religion is represented in the Boy Scouts of America, from Catholics and Protestants, to the Armenian Church of America and Zoroastrians. The Religious Relationships Committee, which includes over 30 religious groups represented in Scouting, determines whether a religion is an appropriate partner for Scouting, and reviews any “duty to God” material which is to be used in Scouting for consistency with Boy Scout policies.

Thanks, Ceepa, you beat me to it. I was just coming back to post this exact excerpt.

[o_mom]

I did not say other faiths are not welcome. It is a strong religious (Christian) organization and has been sued repeatedly in the past over expelling boys who state they do not believe in God.

I am NOT turning this into a religious discussion.

I was just informing the OP that it is a religious organization and that a lot of people unfamiliar with the Boy Scouts often do not know that it has anything to do with anything more than the outdoors.

I wanted her to have that fact in hand when making a decision to allow her son to join.

I am not saying it's right or wrong, I am just saying that have many religious policies (including the homosexuality clause) that do not jive with everyone.

I think the issue here is that religion does not mean Christian, but you seem to use those words interchangeably. In your first post you said they are a Christian organization and here you say they are "religious (Christian)", which implies only Christians can join. This is not true. They require scouts to believe in a god - any god, not just Jesus Christ.

I see your point that people may want to know that they require a belief in a higher power, but that is not the same as being a Christian organization.

[kayte]

Fine if you want Christain removed from my posts--fine.

In the defense of the Christianity label, I would urge you to see where Boy Scouts gets all of it's money and how it lobbies.

I went the page where you sourced the above links... The next question answered in their FAQ was this...

Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership?

A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts’ retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization.

This makes them a religious organization--which was my point. Again I will remove Christain, although I urge you to reference all the court cases where they were sued by as they put it "avowed" homosexuals and the certain religious evidence they used to defend themselves. As well as research their funding and lobbying practices.

Q. May an individual who openly declares himself to be a homosexual be a volunteer Scout leader?

A. No. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership organization; leadership in Boy Scouting is a privilege and not a right. Boy Scouts believes that homosexual conduct is not compatible with the aims and purposes of Scouting and that a known or avowed homosexual does not present a desirable role model for the youth in the Scouting program. Boy Scouts will continue to select only those who meet Boy Scout standards and qualifications for membership.


Q. What does “known or avowed” mean?

A. “Known” is what is known about you. “Avowed” is what you say about yourself. “Known” focuses on cases where someone has engaged in conduct in the community which makes it clear that he or she engages in homosexual conduct. The major cases, however, have been those in which open or “avowed” homosexuals have come forward to test the policy.



Again I did not want to have a religious discussion-should you want to take it any further please start another thread- including if you would like to compare and contrast the their moral code with the religions they include as they certainly don't align themselves with all teachings.

I am just letting the OP know it is a religious organization. If you prefer to oversee your child's religious teaching at home and church, it might not be a good fit. And if your child questions religious beliefs it also not an appropriate fit.

[deannanb]

DS (14) was in Cub Scouts - and found it to be a little boring - Each Den/Troop is different - ours went on one campout a year - had a week long summer day camp - and meetings once a month - our den mom was great - had activities planned for the boys to earn their belt loops and pins.

DS is VERY involved in Boy Scouts (started the end of 5th grade - when the boys "move over") My husband is also involved in the troop - campouts every month, troop meetings every Monday. They have both learned so much - and DS has moved up in rank because his troop leaders believe in pushing the kids to do their best and work toward their Eagle. Scouts has helped DS's self esteem and leadership abilities.

so if for whatever reason you start Cub Scouts and don't find it to be "Great" - don't rule out Boy Scouts.

my cousin applied for the Coast Guard - and was accepted at a higher rank and pay because he is an Eagle Scout!

We are Jewish and neither my husband or son has ever said anything about being offended or pushed into another religion. There is a chaplin position for the scouts - and in my son's troop there have been different religions in the position.

Hope this helps

[Raidra]

We're atheists and not welcome, even if we didn't object to their homophobia. We're starting up an Earth Scouts group within our homeschool group, and I think it will be a lot of fun. Earth Scouts promote environmentalism, economic justice, universal human rights, and peace and nonviolence. Kids as young as 3 can participate. It's not as formal as Boy Scouts, at least as far as I've seen.

Our first year, we're going to work on the Nature badge, so the kids will spend monthly meetings learning about nature/environmentalism, doing lots of activities and going on field trips, and then they'll choose and complete their individual projects in order to receive their badge.

You can read more about Earth Scouts here: http://www.earthscouts.org

[ladysoapmaker]

DS#1 was a cub scout and about 3rd grade we had him stop because of the den leader (she was really bad, losing the boys' books, forgetting to send permission slips and we weren't the only ones this was happening to) and the pack had just moved to a new church and everyone was being pressured into attending that church. Fast Forward to now and DS#2 wants to be in Cub Scouts. We have found a different pack. (So far I like it better. only 1 meeting so far so...) They are affiliated with the local AF base.

We are not Christian by any means and I really don't like some of their policies. The way the BSA is set up it really depends on the pack and troop as to how they do things. DS#1's pack insisted that all the Bears declare a religion where the book gave the option of doing that or spelling out your moral code (for lack of better description). It sounds like DS#2 will be able to do option 2. After we took DS#1 out of BSA we started up a SpiralScouts Circle. It was tough work but we made a go of it but after DD#2 came along we just didn't have time to do it any more and no other parent took up the reins so it is now defunct.

The biggest thing I have found is that DH and I have to talk to our kids, show them our values and explain why we think ours are good and why we feel some of the rules and regulations are wrong but why we have to go along with them. (this goes for lots of things).

Like DS#1 wants to be a military pilot so we are insisting he join BSA and get his eagle. We don't like the closest Troop for various reasons so we are joining one further away and we have explained to him why we are doing that. He's not happy he won't be in the same troop as his cousin but he understands the reason and why his cousin can't leave that troop at this time.

Sorry if I've rambled a little.
Jen

[hardysmom]

DS was a Tiger last year. We had our first Wolf meeting tonight.

You will find a HUGE range of opinions within different scouting groups. Some are out of churches and tend (duh) to be more religious. Some are highly structured. Our pack is pretty rag-tag, but the boys have a blast.

Our school is tiny and pretty liberal. There are only 15 boys in 2nd grade. Last year, our pack had a whopping 5 Tiger Cubs so we have the ability (and necessity) to modify the program more than some groups.

The "feel" of the pack comes from the parents running you pack/den, not so much from the BSA national office. I agree that they have some unfortunate policies, but it doesn't exclude me from seeing the benefits participation in our LOCAL pack has for my son.

I live in arguably the most conservative state in the country, but have never felt any of the Boy Scout representatives with whom I have had contact have pushed any agenda at all beyond recycling, leaving no trace, and good sportsmanship.

I don't know that any of the kids in our pack attend church regularly. We have a couple of Unitarians. In fact, one of the Bear Cub's dad is a Unitarian Minister. Actually, the story on the cover of this month's national UU magazine was about his church and inclusion. He s a pretty progressive guy, even among progressives.

One of the Wolf Cubs has 2 moms. It isn't an issue, period.

We have 4 family camp-outs and several "field trips." Nothing fancy, but the boys enjoy doing things together. For my son (with 2 sisters and a girl-filled neighborhood) the best thing has been learning how to interact with boys in a goal centered, positive environment. Sure, we do crafts and earn beads, but the big thing to come out of it for us were the friendships. That was cool.

Stephanie

[rlu]

The biggest thing I have found is that DH and I have to talk to our kids, show them our values and explain why we think ours are good and why we feel some of the rules and regulations are wrong but why we have to go along with them. (this goes for lots of things).

Jen

This. DS will be a tiger next year and there will be differences between the BSA official stances, the "flavor" his particular pack will have (we've already attended a few to get a feel for them), what we learn at our church and our personal views that we will discuss with our son.

We don't intend to let any outside organization be the only guiding force in my son's life.

[ett]

Thanks for all the responses. I am somewhat familiar with BSA's background although I did not know all the details as stated in their FAQ. DS1 is interested in seeing what they do, so I think we'll go to their info meeting to check it out.