Warning: how to protect the gift?

[niccig]

I haven't read the book " how to protect the gift" as I don't want to be upset, but an incident on Sunday still has me creeped out. At our lemonade stand, an older man wanted lemonade, a cookie and a photo of DS, who was cute in his pilot dress up costume. I sent DS inside to get DH's help, and told the man that I don't allow strangers to photograph DS. The man took his lemonade and cookie and drove off.

What has me freaked is that I don't know if he came back and took a photo when I was inside (a neighbour was also helping us, so DS was never alone). Or if someone has ever taken a photo of DS without me knowing it. Eg at the beach or park.

I'm glad I told the man no photos, but a part of me hesitated before I said anything, which is just wrong. It felt wrong, and I should not have hesitated. DH said I did the right thing and that I would recognize him if I saw him again, and that we protect DS by watching him, teaching him how to be safe. But I still feel that I should have looked at his licence plate.

How do we protect our kids

[AshleyAnn]

If you had his license plate what would you do with it? I don't know anything about this stuff but I guess I need to learn since I have a little girl on the way.

[infomama]

If you had his license plate what would you do with it? I don't know anything about this stuff but I guess I need to learn since I have a little girl on the way.
In my neighborhood, with a plate..the officers would beef up patrol looking for that vehicle. Taking a picture isn't illegal so just based on that one interaction they wouldn't be able to start an investigation but they could keep their eyes out for that creep and possibly do some looking into his background behavior (criminal record).

[infomama]

How do we protect our kids
IMO we teach them (and drill into them) what to do if someone tries to entice them, grab them, even touch them in a way that makes them uncomfortable. Dd1 is now starting to learn how to fight back if she is grabbed (Krav Maga again..but for kids). I watch them like a hawk.

I could go on but you get the idea. I would ask your Dc (about the lemonade stand incident) how it made him feel and how he perceived that man. It would be a good indicator for you to judge his level of danger awareness.

[egoldber]

I think that you would find Protecting the Gift to be reassuring, not scary.

In reality, there is nothing you can do to prevent your child from being photographed. A telephoto lens can take pictures from hundreds of feet away and you would likely never even see the photographer.

I will preface this by saying that Sarah tends to be anxious and a worrier. If we did any sort of stranger danger "program" with her, I think she wouldn't be able to sleep for a month. Also studies have shown that these training programs do not work. When faced with the actual situation, children will still go see the puppy, accept the candy, etc. They simply do not have the impulse control. So I have never taught her about stranger danger.

Statistically, stranger kidnappings are incredibly rare. So I have chosen not to worry about them. Children are far more likely to be kidnapped or molested by a relative or someone known to the family.

So I have focused my efforts on telling her that she can always, always, always tell me anything and I will always love her no matter what. We have also talked about how "secrets" are NOT good things. Surprises (like birthday presents) are not the same thing as secrets and if anyone asks her to keep a secret, she should tell us. We talk about how if anyone makes her feel uncomfortable she should tell a grown-up right away. We talk about how her body is private and no one besides mom or dad or a doctor (with mom and dad's permisson) should be touching her in her private areas.

[infomama]

I agree with Beth that the traditional 'Stranger Danger' program is not effective. We do not teach this (SD) to our Dd

Beth is describing what is called "Predator Proofing" and it is a better approach that will help protect your child and teach him valuable social interaction skills. This approach teaches a child how to determine whether another person poses a threat based on the person's words, actions, behavior, and the child's instincts, regardless of whether the person is a stranger or not. Children should be taught the signals that a person may pose a threat to them, such as making them uncomfortable with words or actions, and the tactics child predators (who could also be children themselves) use to gain a child's trust. They should also be taught to listen to their inner instincts and speak up if they feel something is not right. They should be given permission to protect their bodies in any way necessary, even if it means being disrespectful or rude to an adult. They also need to know that if someone does touch them inappropriately or threatens them, they should never keep it a secret and should always tell a parent or other trusted adult.

[TwinFoxes]

I think that you would find Protecting the Gift to be reassuring, not scary.

In reality, there is nothing you can do to prevent your child from being photographed. A telephoto lens can take pictures from hundreds of feet away and you would likely never even see the photographer.

I will preface this by saying that Sarah tends to be anxious and a worrier. If we did any sort of stranger danger "program" with her, I think she wouldn't be able to sleep for a month. Also studies have shown that these training programs do not work. When faced with the actual situation, children will still go see the puppy, accept the candy, etc. They simply do not have the impulse control. So I have never taught her about stranger danger.

Statistically, stranger kidnappings are incredibly rare. So I have chosen not to worry about them. Children are far more likely to be kidnapped or molested by a relative or someone known to the family.

So I have focused my efforts on telling her that she can always, always, always tell me anything and I will always love her no matter what. We have also talked about how "secrets" are NOT good things. Surprises (like birthday presents) are not the same thing as secrets and if anyone asks her to keep a secret, she should tell us. We talk about how if anyone makes her feel uncomfortable she should tell a grown-up right away. We talk about how her body is private and no one besides mom or dad or a doctor (with mom and dad's permisson) should be touching her in her private areas.

This sounds like a very sane approach.

During the whole Jaycee Lee Duggard saga last month, they had statistics for how many kids were kidnapped by strangers overnight (I posted them in another thread.) I can't remember the exact number but it was like 115 over the past 10 years! I knew the numbers were low, but that's amazingly low.

I have no problem speaking up in general, so if someone's creeping me out, I'd tell them to leave us alone. I was always pretty direct with creepy guys hitting on me, and I think that will translate to creepy people talking to the girls. But I'm not as concerned as some of the folks on the board are with day to day encounters with people. Twins get a lot of attention, and people often ask their names, and I tell them, which I know some moms on this board get really upset about. I just can't figure out what someone would do with their names, that they couldn't do without their names (especially at this age.) I don't think a guy has ever asked their names, it's always women, and from this board I know that some women are really interested in baby names even if they're not pregnant! I've let people take their pictures. Once it was in Wegmans, these tweener girls thought the babies were the cutest things ever, and asked if they could take their picture. Another time I was on the National Mall and these Japanese tourists asked if they could take their pics. I was fine with it both times...but they weren't creepy old guys at a lemonade stand at my house!

OP, I think if you were creeped out, you did the right thing. I also think you should get "Protecting the Gift." I haven't read it, but I did read "The Gift of Fear" which made me feel better about being such a b**ch to random creepy guys...in fact it made me realize I wasn't being a b**ch I was just not falling for the whole "you're a girl, so be nice" BS that gets women in trouble.

Sorry for the novel! :)

[vonfirmath]

Keeping your kid from EVER being photographed is simply not possible. Just photographing my own kid, I can't begin to tell you the number of other kids I have in those pictures. And if someone wants to take a picture of a fountain, or other architectural element, it is very likely they will get people in them.

So they could just as easily "pretend" to be taking a picture of something else in order to get a picture of your child. Cameras are just too prevalent to be completely sure no one else has a picture of your kid.

[Georgia]

During the whole Jaycee Lee Duggard saga last month, they had statistics for how many kids were kidnapped by strangers overnight (I posted them in another thread.) I can't remember the exact number but it was like 115 over the past 10 years! I knew the numbers were low, but that's amazingly low.

And I read a quote the other day that put those stats in a different way because people still feel scared thinking what if my child is one of the 115? Imagine you WANTED your child to get kidnapped, how long would you have to leave them outside alone before this would happen?
.
.
.
.
.
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750,000 years!

[vludmilla]

I think that you would find Protecting the Gift to be reassuring, not scary.

In reality, there is nothing you can do to prevent your child from being photographed. A telephoto lens can take pictures from hundreds of feet away and you would likely never even see the photographer.

I will preface this by saying that Sarah tends to be anxious and a worrier. If we did any sort of stranger danger "program" with her, I think she wouldn't be able to sleep for a month. Also studies have shown that these training programs do not work. When faced with the actual situation, children will still go see the puppy, accept the candy, etc. They simply do not have the impulse control. So I have never taught her about stranger danger.

Statistically, stranger kidnappings are incredibly rare. So I have chosen not to worry about them. Children are far more likely to be kidnapped or molested by a relative or someone known to the family.

So I have focused my efforts on telling her that she can always, always, always tell me anything and I will always love her no matter what. We have also talked about how "secrets" are NOT good things. Surprises (like birthday presents) are not the same thing as secrets and if anyone asks her to keep a secret, she should tell us. We talk about how if anyone makes her feel uncomfortable she should tell a grown-up right away. We talk about how her body is private and no one besides mom or dad or a doctor (with mom and dad's permisson) should be touching her in her private areas.

I completely agree. I think you would find great reassurance in reading Protecting the Gift. I know that I did. It is not a book intended to "freak you out" but quite the opposite, the author seeks to help you relax and be confident that you and your child are doing all you can to protect yourselves.
I highly recommend it.

[niccig]

Thanks everyone. I will read "Protecting the Gift", and I agree with the predator proofing that was mentioned above. DS needs to know that NO ONE can do anything inappropriate, even if you know the person. I do know that the person you know is more likely to be a danger than some random stranger.

I think what still worries me, is that for a split second I didn't want to confront the guy and say NO. I should not have that moment of hesitation. Now that I'm thinking about this, and I'll read the book, I don't think I will hesitate if something like that happens again. I'll tell creepy person to leave and be more forceful about it.

[elektra]

I think what still worries me, is that for a split second I didn't want to confront the guy and say NO. I should not have that moment of hesitation. Now that I'm thinking about this, and I'll read the book, I don't think I will hesitate if something like that happens again. I'll tell creepy person to leave and be more forceful about it.

I am reading "Protecting the Gift" right now. Your point above is hammered home. The book is all about listening to your instincts and if you feel fear or even just slight creepiness do not feel bad about being rude or "inappropriate". It's actually a very appropriate response to tell someone to bug off if they are creeping you out, not the opposite.

[Globetrotter]

So I have focused my efforts on telling her that she can always, always, always tell me anything and I will always love her no matter what. We have also talked about how "secrets" are NOT good things. Surprises (like birthday presents) are not the same thing as secrets and if anyone asks her to keep a secret, she should tell us. We talk about how if anyone makes her feel uncomfortable she should tell a grown-up right away. We talk about how her body is private and no one besides mom or dad or a doctor (with mom and dad's permisson) should be touching her in her private areas.

:yeahthat: I also reassure them that I will BELIEVE them and they will not get into trouble for telling me. That is so important.. I didn't tell my parents a lot of things because I thought they wouldn't believe me (and years later I turned out to be right, sad to say). I like the way you differentiated surprises from secrets - nice.

[DrSally]

I read your other post and I'm glad you sent him inside and were direct with the man about not taking photos of your kids. I'm glad he went inside wo/a fuss too. That was really creepy. I'll be reading this thread for ideas. I think, in general, helping kids (and others) to respect their own feelings (incl. fear) is a good start.

[AJP]

Twins get a lot of attention, and people often ask their names, and I tell them, which I know some moms on this board get really upset about. I just can't figure out what someone would do with their names, that they couldn't do without their names (especially at this age.)

Great thread...reminds me of all the crazy things I have ahead of me as a new mom. It's scary all the things we have to be on top of!
TwinFoxes: For me the name thing is more about teaching my girls that every random stranger doesn't need to know their name. I know my two are still very young, but I don't want them to grow up thinking its normal to be asked by at least 3 strangers EVERY time we are out. I could care less about their actual names...most can't remember them after 2 minutes anyways lol. It's the idea of them being comfortable NOT telling an adult something like that and not just answering b/c they are used to the asking.

[niccig]

I read your other post and I'm glad you sent him inside and were direct with the man about not taking photos of your kids. I'm glad he went inside wo/a fuss too. That was really creepy.

I hope he doesn't live in our area. We're in a canyon with only one road in and out. There are about 1,000 homes and a lot of people walk the neighbourhood. Everyone is very friendly and stop to chat with us when we're out in the yard. There are playing fields and a golf course at the end, so maybe he was just driving by and doesn't reside here. I will definitely by more wary though.

DS came out of the house before the man left in his car, but DH was with him. Then our neighbours came out with their 2 kids and stayed with us and helped serve lemonade. I told both DH and our neighbours about the man, so they also knew what happened.