Religion Discussion- Jehovah's Witness

[Laurel]

I want to be respectful of all religions, but I have an issue and I'm interested in your input. I had friends in high school who were from JW families, but they were rebels/not practicing so this is my first real exposure to this faith.

DD has made a wonderful new friend in kindergarten. She is a very precocious, sweet child and her parents are very friendly. We have playdates about once a week. This family is very much practicing Jehovah's Witness (Dad more so than Mom).

This little girl does not celebrate birthdays or any other holidays (our family goes big on holidays, decorations, etc.). She has to leave the room when they celebrate birthdays at school and will be out for all of next week due to Halloween events. She also can not join sports teams, Girl Scouts or participate in patriotic activities. DD is big on all these activities. So far there has been no issue with any of this (other than me inviting friend to join DD's teams/GS and getting turned down), and DD seems to understand that her friend just does not do any of these things. So, no big deal, right? For some reason I feel so sad for this kid. Should I just get over it?

My larger concern is (from reading I have done on JW) that this faith believes that the end of the world is imminent and that they are the only true religion and that everyone else will be dead soon. Worldly things do not matter, higher education is unimportant. My DD is quite anxious and I am concerned that if she hears these kinds of things from her friend she will completely freak out. Again, I also feel bad for this child because she is clearly very bright and I would hate for her to be discouraged from pursuing higher education.

I think I should just mind my own business and let it go. However, I am curious what the BBB has to say. You all have such interesting thoughts.

Again, I want to be respectful of all religions, so if I have offended anyone I am truly sorry.

[egoldber]

I think I should just mind my own business and let it go.

Yes, you should. :)

I know very little about JW, but if she and your DD are happy having one on one playdates, then I think you should enjoy her having a compatible playmate and let it go.

Issues may develop as they get older and talk about "deeper" things (typically around age 6 or 7), but until then, I would try not to worry about it. And friendships sort of naturally wax and wane in the early elementary years anyway.

[Kestrel]

I don't know if this will work for you, but...

My sister's 12 year old has a JW girlfriend. While they did not join in scouts or sports, the two girls were able to take a set of craft workshops together. I guess because they were pactical?? They did a class per month at a local community center. I know they did some sewing project, soapmaking, candlemaking.... they have a bread-baking one coming up this month.

I would suggest, if you're ok with talking about it, that you tell the other mother that you wish to be respectful of thier beliefs, but would like to find something for the girls to do together???

[Laurel]

I don't know if this will work for you, but...

My sister's 12 year old has a JW girlfriend. While they did not join in scouts or sports, the two girls were able to take a set of craft workshops together. I guess because they were pactical?? They did a class per month at a local community center. I know they did some sewing project, soapmaking, candlemaking.... they have a bread-baking one coming up this month.

I would suggest, if you're ok with talking about it, that you tell the other mother that you wish to be respectful of thier beliefs, but would like to find something for the girls to do together???

This is really great advice! Thanks!

[bubbaray]

I would suggest, if you're ok with talking about it, that you tell the other mother that you wish to be respectful of thier beliefs, but would like to find something for the girls to do together???


I really like this approach! :thumbsup:

[AnnieW625]

I knew one JW family in jr/high school and I actually didn't know they were JW for most of the time we were in school. I found out from my mom who is good friends with the mom and her sister. The mom, and sister are part of the same quilting group as my mom. I think the older brother was on the swim team (he was DH's age, but I'd have to double check) and the girl my age was involved in drama, and I think FFA. Of course there are extremes and liberalness in all things so who knows maybe they were liberal and let their kids do things most JW families don't. I think you just need to let it go. Explain it to DD that her friend doesn't celebrate birthdays/holidays, but I am sure she already has some understanding of that from school and just leave it at that.

[Cheburashka]

My larger concern is (from reading I have done on JW) that this faith believes that the end of the world is imminent and that they are the only true religion and that everyone else will be dead soon. Worldly things do not matter, higher education is unimportant. My DD is quite anxious and I am concerned that if she hears these kinds of things from her friend she will completely freak out. Again, I also feel bad for this child because she is clearly very bright and I would hate for her to be discouraged from pursuing higher education.

I am a very non-religious person, so I might be completely off-base here, but I can't imagine that any parents would tell a small child that the world is going to end soon, and while all of the child's friends will probably die, she gets to go to heaven with mom and dad. So I wouldn't worry about that coming up in conversation necessarily.

As for the higher education - that's a ways off. The parents might change their minds about it, they might not. But worrying about it now is just going to give you gray hairs. :)

Also love Kestrel's idea of talking to the mother about activities that your kids could do together. Maybe arrange a time where the mommies can go through the class offerings at the Y or a local rec center and pick some out, and then the daughters could choose one to do together from the list?

[Meatball Mommie]

I am curious about this as well. There is a girl in my son's (and neice's) school (there are only 10 first graders, so she is 1 of the 10) that is Jehovah's Witness. According to the teacher, this child cannot have a playdate with a non-JW child. Why is that exactly? Obviously that's not true of every JW family considering the OP's daughter & her friend.

[elektra]

Our nanny is a Jehovah's Witness and I have asked her alot about it and have read some of the literature that she has to give to people.
I wouldn't worry about any major differences at this age, and everyone's suggestions about just asking the mom what would work for them is right on the money.
I did this with our nanny, I flat out told her that I wanted to respect her wishes but that I also didn't understand all the rules about parties and such. So I have still let her know that she was more than welcome to come to DD's birthday, baptism, etc. but that I wouldn't officially invite her out of respect.
The end of the world thing is something our nanny has never mentioned to me. And I have asked her a lot of questions about the religion. So based on that, I don't think it's something that would come up in every day kids' conversation.

[Laurel]

I am a very non-religious person, so I might be completely off-base here, but I can't imagine that any parents would tell a small child that the world is going to end soon, and while all of the child's friends will probably die, she gets to go to heaven with mom and dad. So I wouldn't worry about that coming up in conversation necessarily.

Normally, I would assume the same. However the impression I get is that children and adults all listen to the same "sermons" (I use quotes because I am not sure what the proper term is) and study the same lessons. The faith is very uniform with all congregants worldwide getting the exact same literature/agenda each week. This is where my concern came from.

Again, if I am totally off base, I apologize.

[AshleyAnn]

I am curious about this as well. There is a girl in my son's (and neice's) school (there are only 10 first graders, so she is 1 of the 10) that is Jehovah's Witness. According to the teacher, this child cannot have a playdate with a non-JW child. Why is that exactly? Obviously that's not true of every JW family considering the OP's daughter & her friend.

I'm in the bible belt and got to know the local JWs pretty well at my old house (they came weekly and gave me several books, ect. about thier religion beyond the watchtower)

Here some families like to keep it in the church (not just JW but other churches) to keep thier children from hearing/learning things they do not consider appropriate. JW are very very strict compared to most religions so I imagine it simplifies matters for the family to simply say so playdates than to interview every potential family. Think about the Duggars - they are super strict about what is and is not ok for children, well, JW tend to take it to a further extreme, 99% of our households aren't pure enough for them.

[elektra]

I just asked our nanny about this and she said it's true that there is no Sunday school for the kids. They also believe that we are in the "End of Days" time, but I think other Evangelical Christians also believe this right? She said it's not what the religion is based on though and it would most likely not come up in 5-yo conversation.
She also said her boys (ages 12 and 14) have many non-JW friends and she has never discouraged that.
She also cares deeply about their education and lets them play on sports teams. She is pretty religious too so I don't think it's because she is so liberal to allow these things.

[gatorsmom]

Yes, you should. :)

I know very little about JW, but if she and your DD are happy having one on one playdates, then I think you should enjoy her having a compatible playmate and let it go.

Issues may develop as they get older and talk about "deeper" things (typically around age 6 or 7), but until then, I would try not to worry about it. And friendships sort of naturally wax and wane in the early elementary years anyway.

:yeahthat: ITA with everything Beth said. You should let it go. Just because they don't celebrate the same things you do, does not mean this girl is lacking in any way. Different people, cultures, and religions celebrate different things in their own special way.

If the parents started to evangelize you, your family, or your daughter, I'd approach them with the same explanation. In other words, something to the tune of, "we are teaching our daughter a different way and ask that you respect that. It's not open to discusion."

[kransden]

I have taught a lot JW kids. It is not that big of a deal unless you let it be. They don't celebrate Halloween, but coloring fall pictures are fine. They don't make Santa Claus faces at school, which I was horrified to find was one of the projects the teacher had left me, but they will make gingerbread cookie people or snowflakes or snowmen.

[KBecks]

I would totally let it go and not worry about the other family's faith, and instead focus on whatever the girls have in common. I would not expect a preschooler to start talking about the end of the world. If something comes up that's uncomfortable, cross that bridge if and when you need to. Don't stress!

[Fairy]

I understand how you're feeling. I also really like Kestrel's approach. As a Jew, alot of my non-Jewish friends over the years have asked me, so how does XYZ work? And so I just tell them, and then they know. I would just say, ya know DD really wants to do some activities with your DD but I don't know if some of the things I have in mind are ok in your religion or not. Can we figure out some things for the girls to do that would work for you guys? I really think her advice was spot on there.

Good luck!

[ha98ed14]

This little girl does not celebrate birthdays or any other holidays (our family goes big on holidays, decorations, etc.). She has to leave the room when they celebrate birthdays at school and will be out for all of next week due to Halloween events. She also can not join sports teams, Girl Scouts or participate in patriotic activities. DD is big on all these activities. So far there has been no issue with any of this (other than me inviting friend to join DD's teams/GS and getting turned down), and DD seems to understand that her friend just does not do any of these things. So, no big deal, right? For some reason I feel so sad for this kid. Should I just get over it?



I read all the replies thus far, and I agree that it is not your (or my or anyone else's) business what religion people celebrate or how they teach their kids unless/ until it starts impinging on the people around them or harming their kids in ways prohibited by civil law, BUT I agree with your gut: I *DO* feel bad for any child who was denied the possibility of sports teams and holidays and birthdays. Lisa said everyone celebrates life in their own way, which I agree with, but I do think the little girl's life will be "lacking" in some ways; in the joys of childhood that come from winning a soccer game with your team and going out for pizza after, getting that *one* present you really wanted for your birthday. They aren't things that will guarantee a happy childhood, but they can contribute a lot.

I guess what I am trying to say is that even though we shouldn't judge other people, different strokes for different folks, etc., which I totally believe, I don't think you are "wrong" for feeling bad for the little girl. You can't act on your feelings that she is missing out by saying or doing anything, but I understand (and agree with) why you think that way, and I don't think there is anything wrong with having those thoughts in your own head.

[elektra]

I do think the little girl's life will be "lacking" in some ways; in the joys of childhood that come from winning a soccer game with your team and going out for pizza after, getting that *one* present you really wanted for your birthday. They aren't things that will guarantee a happy childhood, but they can contribute a lot.

I guess what I am trying to say is that even though we shouldn't judge other people, different strokes for different folks, etc., which I totally believe, I don't think you are "wrong" for feeling bad for the little girl. You can't act on your feelings that she is missing out by saying or doing anything, but I understand (and agree with) why you think that way, and I don't think there is anything wrong with having those thoughts in your own head.

I used to think this way too, but after seeing how our nanny handles these kinds of situations I have changed my tune a bit. Gifts are still allowed, you just don't give them for special occasions. It's actually kind of nice and no pressure to be able to give someone a gift "just because", and not because it happens to be a certain day of the year that you feel obligated to commemorate.
I personally still love Christmas, and am not considering giving up celebrating the way we do (tree, presents, the whole nine), but the stress-free Christmas thing does sound appealing in a way!
Our nanny also would let her kids dress up in costumes but they just couldn't do it on Halloween as part of the celebration.
So my point is the kids still get to have fun and have "get togethers" with friends or family, as opposed to parties. They don't seem "lacking" at all to me.
Maybe I feel like I need to defend the religion a bit because our nanny is such a quality person and her kids seem happy and healthy.

[egoldber]

Just because someone lives differently from you or does not like the same things you do, does not mean they are unhappy. I hate sports and sports teams. Not participating in that is no hardship to me. :p We do Girl Scouts, but I wouldn't do Boy Scouts. Doesn't mean my kids would then be deprived. Are Jewish or Muslim children deprived because they don't celebrate Christmas?

There are many, many way to celebrate and have joy in life even if you don't do the "traditional" way (which of course varies depending on who you are and where you live). I think there as many ways to be happy in this world as there are people.

[ha98ed14]

Your nanny's situation sounds different to me than the OP's DD's friend. I know the evangelical churches around us have "Harvest Festivals" with costumes on/ around Halloween. It pretty much accomplishes the same thing in my mind. I'm not trying to attack her religion. I just wanted OP to know that someone saw the situation similar to the way she did.

[ha98ed14]

Just because someone lives differently from you or does not like the same things you do, does not mean they are unhappy. I hate sports and sports teams. Not participating in that is no hardship to me. :p We do Girl Scouts, but I wouldn't do Boy Scouts. Doesn't mean my kids would then be deprived. Are Jewish or Muslim children deprived because they don't celebrate Christmas?


Of course I didn't mean it this way. Jewish and Muslim children aren't deprived of anything because they too have their own rich culture, traditions and celebrations. I am sure JW's do too.

I would hope that you would know me better than to think I was attacking anyone who does not believe what I believe or does not do things my way. That's not me, and I don't think I represented myself that way in this post or in my two years on this board. My thoughts were just to let OP know that I understood why she was inclined to feel bad for the girl IN HER OWN HEAD. That's it. Ok. 'Nuff said. Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :)

[egoldber]

I was not saying that anyone was attacking anyone. :) I think it IS a natural response to feel sorry for those who we see as missing out on things that we enjoy ourselves. But my point was that not everyone has the same priorities and may not feel themselves that they are missing out.

[Laurel]

I guess what I am trying to say is that even though we shouldn't judge other people, different strokes for different folks, etc., which I totally believe, I don't think you are "wrong" for feeling bad for the little girl. You can't act on your feelings that she is missing out by saying or doing anything, but I understand (and agree with) why you think that way, and I don't think there is anything wrong with having those thoughts in your own head.

Thanks, I appreciate that. This is a very happy little girl and I really don't feel she is lacking in love or material things. I just was feeling a little sorry for her being left out of so much of the typical American public school experience. I am over it.

Thanks to all who have posted. You all are great!

[ThreeofUs]

I grew up JW. I'm not, but my mother was and so I was obligated to attend (and pay attention!) until I went away to college. I can tell you quite a bit about it. PM me if you like.

Just to be clear, the end of the world is VERY present in every JW's mind and they certainly talk about it as a fact with their children. They don't believe they will go to heaven - or at least, only 144,000 (a number from Revelations) will go to heaven; they believe they will live in an earthly paradise.

Children and adults do listen to the same information - 3 times a week. A weekend meeting (usually Sunday) and two meetings on weeknights are the typical fare for everyone.

Having to do with "worldly things" is discouraged, but Witnesses (this is how they talk about themselves) are told to follow their consciences when it comes to how much they interact with people. Birthdays are out (because of Herod's ordering the head of John the Baptist removed to satisfy a birthday wish), and of course so are all holidays (which Witnesses consider pagan).

This is oversimplification, but again PM me if you want more info.