View Full Version : DS failed his flu shot challenge :(
LarsMal
10-23-2009, 12:46 PM
Poor kid can't catch a break.
I guess I'll just have to do my best to keep him healthy- or put him in a bubble!
bubbaray
10-23-2009, 12:47 PM
I'm so sorry. Allergies on top of the flu just sucks.
LarsMal
10-23-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm so sorry. Allergies on top of the flu just sucks.
It was pretty bad. They did the intradermal test at 1:100 and the spot flared up so fast it was crazy!
He had the shot 2 years ago and was fine, but the ped allergist thinks he has been sensitized to it (I guess like a bee sting, or any other allergy really). He told me we could go the five-shot route, but I don't want to put him through that. Maybe for H1N1 vax, but not the regular one. At least he doesn't have asthma, so he isn't technically high risk I guess.
:hug: We can't get it here either.
MamaMolly
10-23-2009, 03:03 PM
I wish they would culture it on something other than egg. Sigh. DD is also shot free. Lots of handwashing going on over here!
LarsMal
10-23-2009, 03:12 PM
I wish they would culture it on something other than egg.
I know!! There has got to be another way to do it.
I would also like to call up my old ped and let her know that she was wrong- a child with egg allergies *CAN* have a reaction to the flu shot. She would make me feel so guilty about not opting for the shot in her office- claiming it was "perfectly safe" and "didn't really contain any egg".
She would make me feel so guilty about not opting for the shot in her office- claiming it was "perfectly safe" and "didn't really contain any egg".
Wow, how ridiculous!!! :irked:
arivecchi
10-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Sorry, I'm clueless. What is a flu shot challenge?
LarsMal
10-23-2009, 03:35 PM
Sorry, I'm clueless. What is a flu shot challenge?
DS is allergic to eggs. The flu vax is made? cultured?- don't know the term- in egg so it contains egg protein. They gave DS a tiny amount of diluted flu shot today, just under his skin, and he had a reaction. Because of the site reaction he can't have the flu shot or there is a chance he would have a full-blown allergy reaction (possible anaphylaxis). So, no flu shot- seasonal or H1N1 for DS. :(
arivecchi
10-23-2009, 04:05 PM
DS is allergic to eggs. The flu vax is made? cultured?- don't know the term- in egg so it contains egg protein. They gave DS a tiny amount of diluted flu shot today, just under his skin, and he had a reaction. Because of the site reaction he can't have the flu shot or there is a chance he would have a full-blown allergy reaction (possible anaphylaxis). So, no flu shot- seasonal or H1N1 for DS. :( Oh no. I'm sorry. I am so lucky not to have to deal with allergies (at least so far). Hope your DS stays healthy all winter.
Radosti
10-23-2009, 09:48 PM
The flu shot and the MMR vaccine are made with a culture of chicken embryo tissues. Basically, eggs are fertilized and the embryos are turned into a cell slurry. This provides the growth medium for both the flu and the mumps viruses. However, the flu uses a much earlier embryo than does the mumps virus.
I am changing this up a little as I just pulled up the vaccine manual. While the mumps virus is made with chicken embryos, they are cultured quite late (think chicken, not egg), so are a lot less likely to cause a reaction than the flu vaccine. Also, because there is an extensive purification process and the vaccine is later combined with two other vaccines that are not cultured with chicken embryos, there is little chance of anaphylactic shock. There were years of studies done and until 1994, there was a skin test reccomended prior to administering the MMR. Since reactions were not seen, this reccomendation was discontinued.
Sorry, my info was out of date.
Clarity
10-23-2009, 09:55 PM
Radi, is there any indication that they can make vax that aren't cultured in egg? Certainly this is a recognized need by now? My 13 month old can't have either flu vax b/c of her egg allergy and it worries me b/c she's in managed care.
ETA: Interesting though that they say the MMR is safe for egg allergic kids, but not the flu vax.
marie
10-23-2009, 10:02 PM
I know!! There has got to be another way to do it.
I would also like to call up my old ped and let her know that she was wrong- a child with egg allergies *CAN* have a reaction to the flu shot. She would make me feel so guilty about not opting for the shot in her office- claiming it was "perfectly safe" and "didn't really contain any egg".
sounds like that ped needs to take a lesson from a microbiologist - at least the BBB's own microbiologist! the nerve of some doctors appauls me.
i'm sorry about the challenge. good luck keeping your DS healthy.
marie
mama to
DD1 9/03
DD2 12/07
ETA: Interesting though that they say the MMR is safe for egg allergic kids, but not the flu vax.
That's what I'm wondering too. How come there is no warning for the MMR vaccine even though it is also cultured in eggs?
Julie - sorry to hear the bad news.
I decided to skip the seasonal flu vax with DS2 and will try the H1N1 vax if they even make it available to egg allergy kids. The thought of giving DS2 4 vaxes that are cultured in eggs scares me!
DrSally
10-23-2009, 10:11 PM
I'm sorry! This is the first year DS has been able to get the flu shot. He had one at 6 months before we knew of the egg allergy. Eventhough nothing happened at that time, I was worried that the first shot had sensitized him and the next would be a reaction, so we never got it. I cannot believe your old ped!! BTW, our ped never told us that the MMR was cultured in eggs. I didn't know a lot about vaxes at the time. Luckily DS didn't have a reaction to it at the time.
I know youre prob doing this, but I would make sure everyone else in your family gets the flu shot so to try to avoid bringing it home, KWIM?
Radosti
10-23-2009, 10:22 PM
I believe that so far, this is the only way they've been able to get the influenza virus to grow. So, while researchers are trying, this is very much like reinventing the wheel. Taking a "proven pathway", scrapping it, and starting from square one is never easy.
As such, even if a new pathway is found, there will be years of testing to do before the vaccine could go to market. I am just guessing on the flu vaccine, since I have not worked with it.
Not sure I am explaining this very well, but as far as the flu vaccine, I imagine that there is such a scramble to predict what flu will be out there every year, that this leaves manufacturers on very tight deadlines as it is. As such, finding a new pathway is likely left to academic researchers. And I am not sure that there are grants out there to recreate the growth pathway of influenza virus.
Radosti
10-23-2009, 10:25 PM
Perhaps it is because in the MMR vaccine only contains one virus cultured with the chicken embryos and those are used quite late in gestational age. Then, there is an extensive purification process. The influenza virus is cultured much earlier on. So, there is much more risk with that.
Clarity
10-23-2009, 10:33 PM
I understand. But I don't feel better!
I did hear that Novartis was trying to create a H1N1 vax that wasn't cultured in egg, but yeah, the bottom line was that it would have to be tested and could take years to reach the market. That doesn't help us now. It's just tough to hear that kids w/egg allergies (and often eczema and asthma) don't have access to the flu vax, that's all.
Thanks for your insight.
sunshine873
10-23-2009, 10:34 PM
Wow, I've learned a ton from this post! Thanks OP & thanks Radosti for all of the info!
DD got her 1st seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago and her 1st H1N1 today. No reaction for her (I wasn't expecting one) so hopefully she's clear.
Radosti
10-23-2009, 10:41 PM
Yes, it's unfortunate. Science rewards the scientist when it helps the masses. For other vaccines, immunocompromised people are left on the sidelines. However, since the masses are vaccinated, the immunocompromised people are, for the most part, protected. Herd immunity helps them. The flu is completely different because it's always different, hard to provide to everyone who wants the vaccine, and many non-allergic people make the decision to skip this vaccine. So, no herd immunity is available to protect the allergic population.
purpleeyes
10-23-2009, 11:15 PM
To the OP
Oh, :22:. That stinks.
DD just had her challenge on Thursday and the worst part was having *4* people hold her down for the shot each time because she went CRAZY. In the end, I was grateful she passed.
ETA: Interesting though that they say the MMR is safe for egg allergic kids, but not the flu vax.
Fortunately, we were told and had the epipen on hand! No reaction, thank goodness, and now after Radosti's explanations above, I understand why. ;-)
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