Warning, long...What do you do about field trips by bus for your toddler?

[MontrealMum]

Sorry, this is long, but I am really puzzled by the planning behind this trip, and also wondering how often other parents are faced with things like this. This is not going to go well if DH and I both WOH f/t! And let me preface this by saying: either DS is not going on this trip, or I will be driving him in my car...and his carseat :)

DS's daycare has a field trip by bus (school bus) planned for the 18mos-3 year olds in the Spring. DS will be 4 months shy of 3 (as will many of the kids, and the youngest ones will be *maybe* 2. No way I'm letting DS bounce around on a school bus unrestrained at that age. Can you imagine kids that age sitting on a bus? (Yes, I know about compartmentalization, but buses are made for school-aged kids, not kids who'd rather be rolling around on the floor or standing on the seats.

What do you guys do in this sort of situation? I remember one mom here talking about driving her kid + seat over, and installing it on the bus...but I think even this instance was for a much older kid, and sort of requires rearranging the parental work schedule anyways to be there to drop off/pick up and retrieve the seat. Do others encounter this "field trip by bus" for little, non-school-aged kids?

I checked the rather ambiguous and minimalist carseat laws for my province :( And they basically state that kids whose seated height (bum to top of head) is less than 63cm (around 25 in.) must be in an appropriate infant/child/booster seat for their height and weight. To put that into perspective, I can't measure DS now as he's sleeping, but as a rough guide I measured the back of his coat to the hood and it's 22in. So he's pretty close to surpassing that! Gads! Yet, the gov't site goes on to say that "Children who cannot use a seat belt safely by themselves should continue to use a booster seat suitable for their height and weight, even if they have a sitting height of 63 cm." Um, OK...there isn't a booster seat suitable for DS' weight of 27 pounds. And no, I don't think he's going to pack on enough by the spring to be the 40 lbs a booster requires. :banghead:

Keeping in mind that DS' weight has him at just under the 50th % (so, basically, average) WTH is up with planning a trip like this which has toddlers riding on a non-seatbelted (very rare to have seatbelts in buses here) school bus?!? Or don't these people appreciate the "subtle nuances" of the vague law I quoted above...thus, the many boostered 2 yr olds and non-carseat/boostered kids being driven around here.

[Pennylane]

I wouldn't let a child that age go on a field trip with a preschool or daycare if I had any other options. If I didn't, I would insist upon at the least, bringing in high back booster seat and having them ride in that.

Ann

[mytwosons]

Here, busses that transport Preschoolers have special harnesses. Maybe the bus they plan to use also has them?

[kristenk]

It doesn't sound like a child safety seat of any type (whether it be convertible car seat, HBB, whatever) will be possible unless your child rides in a car to the field trip. The buses don't have seat belts, so car seats and boosters can't really be attached and used.

DD went on her first field trip a few weeks ago. She's 5.5yo. She rode the bus and I was totally fine with that at her age and the amount of supervision involved on the bus and at the destination.

I don't think I'd let my <3yo (or even 3yo and maybe even 4yo) ride the bus. It's just not something I'm comfortable with.

[tmarie]

Well this is timely. :)

Tomorrow is dd#1's first field trip. It is with a private preschool that has a small private bus--it has seatbelts. The children going on this field trip are all 4-5 year olds. They don't do field trips for children younger than the pre-K class. I happen to be a parent chaperone so dd will be driving with me, but I would have allowed her to go on the trip anyway. We are out in the ruralish suburbs and they were going ten minutes away to an apple orchard. I'm pretty uptight about safety, and this school is incredibly safety conscious, so I was comfortable with this trip. The only other field trip they take this year is a less than 5 minute ride to a horse farm. If they were driving on interstates, into the city, or if the trip was longer than 10 or so minutes, perhaps I would feel differently. I actually think it's great preparation for 4-5 year olds who may be taking a bus to school in the next year or two.

Please don't flame me. :)

tmarie
dd#1 '05
dd#2 '08

[awoodm]

I would definitely not feel comfortable with DS who is 4 riding in a school bus with no harness or seat belt of any kind. Are you sure they aren't the preschool/daycare type buses that do have harnesses? All of the daycares that I have seen have special buses for transporting before/after school care that have seatbelts of some sort. Eeek. That would make me really uncomfortable, especially for a 2-3 year old.

[MontrealMum]

It doesn't sound like a child safety seat of any type (whether it be convertible car seat, HBB, whatever) will be possible unless your child rides in a car to the field trip. The buses don't have seat belts, so car seats and boosters can't really be attached and used.

DD went on her first field trip a few weeks ago. She's 5.5yo. She rode the bus and I was totally fine with that at her age and the amount of supervision involved on the bus and at the destination.

I don't think I'd let my <3yo (or even 3yo and maybe even 4yo) ride the bus. It's just not something I'm comfortable with.

See, this is the heart of my problem. I don't think I'd have as much of a problem if this was a group of 5 or 6 year olds, but DS is only 2 now, and will be 4 months shy of 3 at the time of the trip. Which would involve driving on the highway at least 30 min. to the island north of us. No possibility of a private bus, not 100% sure that there will be no seatbelts, but pretty sure. Very rare here. In our car he's still rearfacing in a MA, so no booster to send along (even if they did have belts), and planning not to buy one for several years yet. I guess if there were belts I could rethread the MA to be used FF, but I really don't trust someone else to install/use it correctly.

If I'm WOH by then, he'll be spending the day with Granny. But I'm not sure if I should be *that mom* who drives my kid on the field trip (and this is a daycare, not a preschool, so theoretically, both parents are working, though my present schedule would allow me to drive him). How do you all feel when you drive and everyone else's kid takes the bus? Or aren't there that many field trips for the under-3 crowd?

ETA: This is not a private daycare like you are all used to down in the US. It is a government-sponsored and certified daycare. We have a very different childcare system here in Quebec compared to the US and the rest of Canada. While we are very happy with our placement, the teachers, and its educational program, it does not have the funds for something like a preschool-type bus.

[bubbaray]

Having lived in Mtl and experienced the driving there, there is NO WAY I would have my child ride unrestrained on a bus of any size at his age. NO WAY.

FWIW, you don't usually use belts in buses. If they have a belt, its typically a lap-only belt and you can NOT use a booster with a lap belt. If they have an integrated harness, you just use the harness, not a booster + the harness. If, and only if, there was a full lap-shoulder belt could you use a booster.

If there are lap-only belts, you could definitely install your MA. I wouldn't trust the teachers to do that, though.

Honestly, our daycare has a bus, but ONLY the school-aged children use it, not the little kids. Little kids only do field trips within walking distance of the daycare, which is a-ok by me.

[o_mom]

Our preschool doesn't do any field trips for the 3 yos, but has one a month for 4 yos. They are all parent-driven, though. I have gone on every single one so far, but there is one other mom I would trust to drive (we carpool). At that age, I don't think there would be much stigma to driving vs. the bus. I would not do a regular school bus w/o seatbelts at that age or that distance.

[kristenk]

How do you all feel when you drive and everyone else's kid takes the bus? Or aren't there that many field trips for the under-3 crowd?

If I wanted my child to participate at that age and I were in your position, I'd drive. My 5.5yo was *thrilled* to be riding the bus on her field trip. I understand the appeal of the bus.

Is the field trip first thing in the morning? Would you be able to keep DS home in the morning and then just drive to the field trip so he doesn't see all of the other kids get on the bus? That might help prevent some issues if he really likes the bus.

FWIW, DD's preschool basically had different activities (petting farm, cowboy, etc.) come to the school. No field trips required. I was thrilled. :)

[Clarity]

I guess the bus is a non-issue for me. My 18month to 3 year old would absolutely not be going on a "field-trip" with their daycare. No way.
If she were, it would be that I was accompanying her and she, yes, was properly secured in whatever vehicle we were traveling.

[MontrealMum]

I don't know what time of day the trip will be at this point, but this is good advice about minimizing the trauma of seeing the other kids get on the bus if I decide to drive him myself rather then keeping him home. I will find out closer to the time. DS LOVES buses, unfortunately. I just had no idea that daycares did this sort of trip with kids this young, but we got this permission form to sign w/ all our other forms for renewing our contract for the year. They often have people come onsite as well (singers, santa, people w/animals), so this was surprising.

This particular daycare does not accept aftercare or half-day kids - all the kids there are full day, so there isn't any other driving around normally. I do know that they also will be going to the local library - but that's w/in walking distance and they do neighborhood walks in the bébébus (giant multi-child stroller) all the time, so I have no problem with that.

You guys are making me feel that I'm not nuts, at least - thanks :) I actually had to stop DH from signing the waiver that would have let DS go on this trip. And explain the problem to him.

[MontrealMum]

Also, good to know more about boosters and how they work with belts. Thanks Melissa. I know nothing about boosters because they just aren't on our horizon at this point. I am presently trying to figure out how to keep DS rearfacing as long as possible w/o spending too much on new seats. He's creeping up on that 1" from the top mark!

[DrSally]

DS has a field trip in a short school bus at the end of this year (he'll be 4.5). I asked the director if I could drive him in my van so he could be in a carseat and she basically said "no". No way I would let an 18 month old ride in a school bus unrestrained.

[doberbrat]

one of the reasons we have our current schedule at dc is b/c they do field trips on Wed. 1 a month on avg. they start at 2.9 and cannot guarentee seatbelts on the bus - (WHO is installing a car seat is another matter entirely).

dd's been on 1 field trip - I drove.

she just turned 4 and is starting to ask why she cant go on the bus and I tell her its b/c its not safe and Mommy's job is to keep her safe.

fwiw, I drove alongside the bus that the field trip used when I drove. kids were NOT always seated nor facing front and it made me mental.

[egoldber]

Our daycare/preschool does not do field trips. There is a fire station literally next door and their big "trip" every year is walking over there. But that's it.

I would not be comfortable with a field trip at that age.

[khalloc]

My kids both go to daycare full-time. In the late summer-fall they have a few field trips. Its a small daycare. They dont do a bus, but instead have parents drive. You bring your own carseat, they install it in whoevers car your kid will be riding in. Usually if you dont go your child will ride with one of the teachers. I am OK with this, but definitely would not be OK with my 2 year old riding on a schoolbus with no restraint.

I was commenting because alot of parents go on the field trips and I think some of the reason is just to drive their kids there themselves. I've even seen some parents not have their kids go to daycare that day, because they dont want them going on the field trip (farm, apple-picking, pumpkin-picking). SO I really dont think it would be a big deal if you drive your 2 year old. I could see if he was 7 and you insisted on driving him, he might deal with some teasing, but at 2 or 3 he will not. I'd drive him if you feel more comfortable with that.

[Cheburashka]

Would it be possible to call and ask about the bus they're using or other transportation options closer to the event date and hold off on signing the waiver until then? Or do you have to have everything turned in before the new year?

[HIU8]

DS just went on his first field trip. He will be 5 next month. They don't do field trips until pre-K at his school. I would not allow a 3 yr old to ride on a bus unrestrained. 4 and up yes, (and I did go with DS on this field trip). We are going on another field trip where parents have to drive. I'm driving DS and said I could only take another child in a harnessed seat (I have no idea really how to use a HBB or backless and I don't want the responsibility or liability if something were to happen).

[kijip]

Ummmm, buses for field trips in daycare/preschool. I don't think I would go for that but it never came up. T's first out of home care experience was at the childcare and preschool in the Pike Place Market. They walked everyday and on field trips often, but they were right downtown and there was a ton of stuff to walk to. So clearly I am fine with trips and walking, but toddlers on a bus with 1 adult per 5 or so kids seems like a recipe for chaos and confusion. T later went to preschool for 2 years (10 months out of each year, it was on the college campus) and they just walked places too (though not nearly as much to walk too).

Like many pp, the first bus trip was when he was in Kindergarten and I was fine with that. He has another one coming on Friday and I was/am fine with that.

I am fine with school bus safety, but for kids old enough to actually sit in school buses.

[deborah_r]

I'm not reading the other replies before I answer. With my first child I took the "I'll drive him in my car and meet the bus there" approach. Just last week I let DS2 go on the bus (one of those comfy chartered buses) about 45 minutes away with his class and his teachers. I am more comfortable with the staff now and I know how the field trips go. I could not take work off that day and neither could DH. And also, when DS1 was between 4-5 years old, I ended up taking field trips with him, on the bus, while holding DS2 in my lap, so we had already kind of opened the door to being OK with this.

It probably wasn't the safest decision, but it's what we did. Carseats and seatbelts are not used on buses, as far as I know (I thought I heard something about school buses getting something, but last time I was on one there were no belts).

ETA: forgot to mention there is usually 1 to 1 adult to kids on the trips, so the kids aren't rolling around on he floor or running around. Most kids have a parent in attendance, and then the teachers assign themselves to 1 or 2 kids for the whole trip, so no one is in charge of a group of kids, but just one or sometimes 2.

ETA2: OK, now I've read the other replies, and probably wouldn't have been honest if I read them, so there you go. To the OP: since you know about it far in advance I would think just plan to take the day off and drive yourself? That's what i always did with DS1 and there was not any stigma to driving and meeting them there. Also, there is usualy a group staying at our school that we can leave our child with if we do not want him to go on the trip.

[tmarie]

Just back from our first field trip for my 4yo. They took two small buses that are owned by this franchise affliliated preschool/daycare. The buses were literally made for very young children and there WERE SEATBELTS for everyone. I was in the last row, helped buckle the kids in, and watched as they stayed seated for the entire 10 minute drive. These children were all 4-5 yo and I thought it was completely safe and appropriate.

tmarie

[almostmom]

Are you sure there aren't seatbelts? At my preschool, the kids in preschool and pre-k go to swimming lessons in the winter and take a bus. And there are seatbelts. DS took them when he was just 4, and DD will be doing the same thing. The drive is about 25 minutes.

[jamesmom]

I would drive my DC to a field trip instead of having him or her take a school bus at that age.

[gatorsmom]

I haven't read all the replies but Gator started taking a small school bus to his preschool/speech therapy program when he had just turned 4yo. There were other children on teh bus but there was an aid that helped them on/off, took their back pack off for them and buckled them into their seatbelt. He absolutely loved it and he was fine.

However, in YOUR situation, if your DS really wanted to go on this field trip, I'd have no problem being the only mom who drove her kid. I'd explain to DS that that is the condition or he's not going. When the issue is safety, it's not easy to persuade me to do otherwise.