Thinking about Time-Outs

[sste]

So, I am reading Playful Parenting and the book is not very pro-time out. DH and I use time out only for physical violence and after a redirection has failed. So, I would say DS is in time out on average once every week or two weeks and the time out is under two minutes.

The thing is I see the theory behind redirecting and admire it. But when DS went through his face slapping phase starting at 15 months, we tried to redirect consistently and model appropriate behavior for two months with NO luck. Finally, when DH went to work with a scratch and light bruise on his face from DS and I noticed our babysitter avoiding close contact with slap-happy DS, I said enough and we started using time out. Behavior gone in a few weeks.

Now that he is two, we usually don't even have to put him in time out. We just tell him that if he does X again he will be put in time out. Does he want that? No. So, he won't head-butt (the latest issue) right? No. Head butting hurts, right. Right. The time out seems to kind of insert a little layer of thinking it over before acting.

However, I must say I am impressed with Playful Parenting and I am open to re-thinking.

Any thoughts on time out? What works in your family?

[egoldber]

I don't personally find time out useful until around age 3. Until then, I think a lot of kids (this will vary of course) have the cognitive development to associate the time out with the behavior AND to have the impulse control to stop the behavior based on the 1-2-3 methodology.

I have done a simplified time out with Amy where I simply remove her from the situation and walk away from her. This seems very effective with her.

But in general, I think that time out is one tool in a parental toolbox. I think they are useful sometimes, but I do think they can be very overused. I think they are actually most useful when *I* am out of control and I need to remove myself from the kids for a short time to calm down. I also think it is important to consider the behavior and understand the triggers. Avoiding or dealing with those triggers is better in the long term IMO.

With Sarah I found that their prime useful period was about age 3-4. As she got older I did not need to use them as much and found other methods more effective. I do occasionally ask her to go to her room to calm down, take a break, etc.

(FWIW, I've never read Playful Parenting.)

[wellyes]

We don't time-out after I observed other families... the ones that used time out vs the ones that didn't did not really seem to have any behavior difference - BUT the parents who did time out always seem to end up spending way more time disciplining than the those that did not. Now of course that just could be based on the behavior of the kids, but so far "child-centric" discipline has worked well for us.

[Moneypenny]

I haven't read Playful Parenting, but from what I understand of the strategy, I think DH and I do that kind of parenting just naturally. That said, we do a sort of time out, but I think of it more as taking a break from a situation that DD isn't able to handle right now. When DD was 2, we didn't sit her down in a time out, but would say something like, "You're having a hard time playing nicely with that toy right now so let's take a break from it and do something else (or sit over here and calm down or whathaveyou)". We use it more as a chance to regroup than as a punishment.

Once she got older, we would offer her the choice of taking her break by doing something else or sitting by herself or sitting and having a cuddle. Now that's she's 5, she tends to recognize on her own that she needs to separate herself from some situations and will announce that she's taking a break "to be respectful to myself and others".

[sste]

[QUOTE she tends to recognize on her own that she needs to separate herself from some situations and will announce that she's taking a break "to be respectful to myself and others".[/QUOTE]

Wow, that is seriously impressive.

I am fine with dealing with everything with non-time out strategies except for physical violence. I am somewhat freaked out by physical aggression - - though DS, age 2, is not intending to hurt, he just loves the social interaction of his face slaps/reaction or the joyful snap backward of his head butt. He is a very sociable little guy and this physical stuff is one of his ways of interacting. Unfortunately.

The other thing is that DS is wierdly strong. His face slaps left marks and a few bruises. His head butt last week was so bad our babysitter thought her nose might be broken and it was swollen for two days. I feel like I need that behavior to stop and stop fast. And I haven't found anything else that works as quickly as the time out. So, to be honest, I am using it as punishment/negative reinforcement.

Is there anything else that would work as quickly and effectively as time out for physical violence?

[sunshine873]

I am still a new mom and haven't experienced the discipline stage yet. Can someone fill me in on why people don't like time-outs? I thought they were one of the preferred methods of discipline.

[wellyes]

Time-outs are certainly preferable to spankings, but some people argue that they are ineffective or even cruel. The argument is basically that children who are acting out are letting their parents know that they need something.... hungry, tired, frustrated, lonely, whatever. Time-outs can be viewed as parent shunning their child - who is already miserable.

To me the biggest problem with it is that it never really addresses the root of whatever is wrong: it's not discipline, it's punishment. In that way it is similar to spanking.

To use a VERY crude analogy, it's like using a water gun on a cat when the cat goes on the furniture. It works, the cat will stop, but just because she doesn't want to be punished.

Of course, part of time out is explaining consequences to the child and why they're in time out. At what age does that actually work? I don't know, maybe when they are pre-school age (2.5+) --- but there are other, effective discipline tactics at that age.

Anyway, just to be clear, I'm just writing the arguments out. I'm not vehemently opposed to time-outs and I don't think parents who use them are wrong. They're probably very very good for certain kids. But I am not in love with the idea of time outs and I wouldn't want to use often.

[elektra]

Is there anything else that would work as quickly and effectively as time out for physical violence?

I'd like to know if there is an answer to this too.

I have little confidence in my discipline strategies, and DH and I often look at each other with a "was that the right reaction?" look after disciplining DD. And I am always posting discipline strategy questions here. That being said, I do think the timeouts are the best thing for us in the cases of violence. It's immediate timeout for hitting any human or animal. (I am fine with her hitting the couch.) And sometimes it seems like DD is testing us to see what she can get away with. It's like I can see her little wheels turning and it's like she hits me in slow motion to see what I'll do. If I can I will catch her and say, "no hitting". If I am too late, it's automatic timeout. And even though she can't vocalize that she needs a timeout, it's almost like she does it on purpose to get in timeout to settle down.

[mominmarch]

Time outs actually really worked for my daughter from about 2 through 2.5. Now, just past 2.5, she doesn't think that time out is such a bad consequence to something she wanted to do, and you can see her mind "chose" to do it. So time outs aren't really working. I look forward to them working again.

I was spanked a lot as a child, and we are a nonspanking family. But when she hits/slaps/kicks, her hand gets grabbed and she is told very sternly that we do not do that, and whoever was hit/slapped/kicked pays no attention to her (i.e. the other parent takes over). This has been very effective with my daughter... she is generally kicking the person she is "playing with" and just testing it, and to remove me for example from the play is very dissatisfying for her. Game over, in no uncertain terms.

What is working for us is really a combination of 1-2-3 magic (which is a time out approach with warnings) and playful parenting. Basically, playful parenting is something which we try to use all the time, not just in discipline settings. Both books are great I think. Both my DH and I WOTH so when we come home, we are stressed/tired and DD is ready for attention. The playful parenting is great -- we all burn off energy, things are fun and silly. The house doesn't get cleaned/straightened until later (if ever) but I really do see that DD is one happy kid, and we have had less and less a need for discipline.

[sunshine873]

Time-outs are certainly preferable to spankings, but some people argue that they are ineffective or even cruel. The argument is basically that children who are acting out are letting their parents know that they need something.... hungry, tired, frustrated, lonely, whatever. Time-outs can be viewed as parent shunning their child - who is already miserable.

To me the biggest problem with it is that it never really addresses the root of whatever is wrong: it's not discipline, it's punishment. In that way it is similar to spanking.

To use a VERY crude analogy, it's like using a water gun on a cat when the cat goes on the furniture. It works, the cat will stop, but just because she doesn't want to be punished.

Of course, part of time out is explaining consequences to the child and why they're in time out. At what age does that actually work? I don't know, maybe when they are pre-school age (2.5+) --- but there are other, effective discipline tactics at that age.

Anyway, just to be clear, I'm just writing the arguments out. I'm not vehemently opposed to time-outs and I don't think parents who use them are wrong. They're probably very very good for certain kids. But I am not in love with the idea of time outs and I wouldn't want to use often.

Thanks for the response. I guess I still think of them as discipline. I do think that the critical part of the time out often gets ignored. That's talking to them about what they did wrong. I think the time out removes them from the emotions of the problem and then it can be calmly discussed, including how to better handle the situation next time. Moms/dads that have been there...am I unrealistic?

[daphne]

I'm pretty anti-TO b/c I think, in general, that dc misbehave for a reason, not just b/c they are "naughty." So, for me, to put my dc in a TO shuts down communication. I prefer to take them aside, 1:1, to quietly discuss the problem & to help them better handle the situation. For ex, if DS were to say something rude to another child, I would pull him aside & ask him what had happened. 9/10 times the child had said something that hurt DS's feelings (DS is incredibly sensistive), so I would say, "Ok, well we don't say mean things to our friends," then I help DS find a way to resolve the problem.

I *highly* recommend Unconditional Parenting, as another way of looking at discipline.

[hanaum02]

Thanks for the response. I guess I still think of them as discipline. I do think that the critical part of the time out often gets ignored. That's talking to them about what they did wrong. I think the time out removes them from the emotions of the problem and then it can be calmly discussed, including how to better handle the situation next time. Moms/dads that have been there...am I unrealistic?

I personally agree with this perspective. I view timeouts as discipline that may work for some kids and not for others. For us, it proves very effective in allowing everyone to stay calm and helping us (both the kids and the adults) to remove themselves from the situation. I would absolutely agree with several posters here however, that the critical part of this strategy is to discuss it and make sure the child understands what they did wrong and how they could handle it next time.

[Melaine]

We have been using time-outs for a looooong time, I find them very effective. I don't really think that most other methods are going to work for my kids, particularly in situations where they are being aggressive or violent towards each other. With twins, those situations come up often. I'd prefer not to have to give time-outs but sometimes they need them.

[wellyes]

I would absolutely agree with several posters here however, that the critical part of this strategy is to discuss it and make sure the child understands what they did wrong and how they could handle it next time.

OK, here's an anecdote: I have one set of friends who put their DS into a timeout just about every time we see them, which is always at birthday parties, holiday get togethers, football parties, etc - where there are lots of kids. I know for a fact that for this little boy to be in the party in the afternoon, he is skipping his nap. I also know he's not regularly in daycare & is not used to being around other kids. So every party he gets overexcited and causes a scene.

Should he be put in timeout for acting up? In my way of thinking, no, what the boy needs is sleep and more socialization, not discipline. In their way of thinking, yes, he needs to understand it is not acceptable to be loud and disruptive. I think both views are kinda valid and to be honest, his behavoir HAS been improving over the past year or so. I like the couple and I think they are good parents. But I would make different choices with DD.

[maestramommy]

We just started timeouts when Dora was 3.5, and I'm not sure it's very effective. It's one of the few times she actually has a tantrum. We were using it as a punishment for hitting/pushing Arwyn, and for repeated defiance. It seemed to work for the hitting, but not for defiance. I'm reading "Positive Discipline for Preschoolers" and they talk about using it for cooling off. Well, in our house it seems to have the exact opposite effect. Dora screams until she's choking and coughing. Not much cooling off happening there. So now I'm searching for other strategies.

[MamaMolly]

Time out is the currency that works for DD. When she gets totally out of control, she couldn't care less about a spank and she's as stubborn as a mule so redirection only goes so far. But time out gets through to her that we mean it. So it is what we use. Usually on the bottom step, but for big offenses in her room, and if I'm about to loose it I have a mommy time out (which REALLY gets her attention) and go to my room to cool off. One minute for every year is our recipe that works, and we've been doing this since about 17 months. But let me add that we don't just isolate her and then it's done. Once everyone is cooled off we have a nice cuddle, each gets to talk about their feelings, and we talk about what would work better next time. I also use the post-time out as a time to help DD identify and label her feelings to better identify why she was acting out. Like if she was frustrated, angry, etc. It is how, IMO, she learns what those feelings are, and how she learns to control them. I also think it is important for me to identify my emotions for her, so that she learns others have feelings too.

I think any discipline system can be abused, misused and harmful. DH came from a family with an explosively angry father, so he has to curb his tendency to do that. My mother was a spanker and used empty threats. I don't want to do that. For us, time outs make sense and work for DD.

I wouldn't quit using a behavior modification technique that was working, and not harmful to my child. IMO the books are a resource for when things *aren't* working, but there is no harm is trying something new if it 'speaks' to you.

[edurnemk]

DS is 21 months, pretty young still and we have only used simplified TO for certain situations, mostly violence. I'm currently reading several books and experimenting to find the best tools for us.
He's going through a kicking phase now. I tried a lot of things, but he laughs and kicks me more especially when I'm dressing him or changing his diaper, it's a game to him. So I just say "do you need a TO?", pick him up without saying much - since getting more attention fuels the kicking - sit him down on a chair for a minute, during which I kneel in front him, asking him to calm down if necessary, when the minute is up I explain why he needed a TO and that his kicking hurts me. This is what has worked best with the kicking.

He also went through a toy throwing phase (I mean, flying across the room), and in this case he gets a warning, and if he does it again the toy goes on TO, and he doesn't get it back until a couple of hours later (sometimes I forget the toy is in TO until the next day, LOL). This and explaining only balls are for throwing, and never directly at people, has pretty much solved the problem.

For all other situations I prefer other tools, I try to do a lot of positive reinforcement and spend a lot of quality time with him. DH and I aren't always on the same page, though, and we had a HUGE argument a couple of weeks ago when I came downstairs and found he had put him on "TO" but standing in a corner facing the wall... I mean, are you kidding me? but that's something for the BP. If only he would take the time to read ONE parenting book...

[jgenie]

I'm pretty anti-TO b/c I think, in general, that dc misbehave for a reason, not just b/c they are "naughty." So, for me, to put my dc in a TO shuts down communication. I prefer to take them aside, 1:1, to quietly discuss the problem & to help them better handle the situation. For ex, if DS were to say something rude to another child, I would pull him aside & ask him what had happened. 9/10 times the child had said something that hurt DS's feelings (DS is incredibly sensistive), so I would say, "Ok, well we don't say mean things to our friends," then I help DS find a way to resolve the problem.

I *highly* recommend Unconditional Parenting, as another way of looking at discipline.

At what age do you think this starts to work? DS is almost 2 and has started slapping as a game. I redirect when he does it to me, but don't always see before he does it to someone else. Also he likes to pull my hair as a game. The first couple of times I redirect him but after that it really bothers me and I have to put him down and remove myself. He gets very upset so it feels like putting him in a T/O even though I am the one taking the T/O.

[brittone2]

Not a fan for our family. I tend to only use them to care for the injured party (having the offender sit so I can tend to the immediate needs if someone is injured).

I like the "time in" or "comfort corner" approach over on GCM. It is akin to an adult taking a coffee break to sort of reset their mood, kwim? If you want more info they have a sticky on the GCM site on the concept of a comfort corner. My DS got pretty good eventually at using it on his own to redirect his own behavior, which is my ultimate goal, kwim?

I'm more into the idea of teaching the desired behavior and looking at discipline through that lens vs. discipline as being something that needs to be done to a child.

I'm also a believer that punishment can possibly become a motivating factor for lying, etc. in young children. There have also been some studies showing kids who are treated punitively for their offenses tend to commit those same offenses when there isn't an adult/authority figure around to catch/punish them, kwim? I think there is a potential risk of discipline becoming very much an externally driven thing rather than an internal desire stemming from knowing what is right.

[daphne]

At what age do you think this starts to work? DS is almost 2 and has started slapping as a game. I redirect when he does it to me, but don't always see before he does it to someone else. Also he likes to pull my hair as a game. The first couple of times I redirect him but after that it really bothers me and I have to put him down and remove myself. He gets very upset so it feels like putting him in a T/O even though I am the one taking the T/O.

That's a good point. DS is 4 & I have been able to reason with him since he was about 3. DD is 2 and I can't yet reason with her like that. I just carry her away from the situation briefly (either take her away from the person she's bothering or put her down if she's hitting me). She usually just wants to be picked up & hugged, so she'll cry when I put her down, then I'll say something like "We don't hit. When I pick you up, I don't want you to hit me." Then if she does, I'd put her down. But generally, she doesn't act out again. It's usually about needing attention or a hug or something..

[infomama]

Not to hijack but anyone see the article in the NYT titled "Shouting Is the New Spanking?" It links to a parenting site which says that time outs invoke a fight/flight instinct in kids and just perpetuates the power struggle.

Here is the article
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1

We use them from time to time but I have to say I don't think they work very well for our family on a whole.

[Naranjadia]

We have been using time-outs for a looooong time, I find them very effective. I don't really think that most other methods are going to work for my kids, particularly in situations where they are being aggressive or violent towards each other. With twins, those situations come up often. I'd prefer not to have to give time-outs but sometimes they need them.

That's been my experience with twins, too. Time-outs aren't our only tool, we use some of the techniques in Playful Parenting - although this thread is reminding me that I need to finish that book!

[gatorsmom]

I haven't read the other replies but time-outs work well for us for the most part. However, my timeouts are a bit different than from what I suspect some others do. First I give the child a warning that if they repeat their behavior, they'll get a time out. Then, if they repeat it, I give them one. If we are in the kitchen, I simply pull out a chair and sit them in it. If we are in a restaurant, I'll pull their chair away from the table and tell them "now you are in a 2 minute time out." I never put them in a corner, I never face them away from me, I never put them in an area where I can't see them. They can see and talk to me but they can't have their toys. It also gives me a chance then to hear why they were doing what they did and for me to tell them why I don't think that's appropriate.

When they are not talking yet and don't understand, then I hold them on my lap on the chair for 2 minutes. If they are kicking and screaming, I simply hold them so that they can't hurt me, themselves or fall or get away. I explain calmly that they are on a timeout and why. This has worked with Gator and Cha Cha. Greenbean got his first timeouts today for repeatedly throwing hard toys at my head (he was mad at me for not letting him eat crayons. I took them away and he was mad). And so the learning process starts anew....

Timeouts in our house are simply 2-3 minutes where the player is taken out of the game to cool off. Since they hate being pulled away from what they are doing, this really works for us.