Dental appointment disaster- can't we just not go?

[wolverine2]

Had DS1's regular dentist checkup today. It's a pediatric dentist, and for some reason DS has it in his head that he hates the dentist. We've had some disaster visits before- including one reschedule b/c he wouldn't cooperate. But he's usually gotten it done in the end. Today was another disaster- it was my first time taking him because DH has had it. We never made it past the lobby- DS actually ran out of the building onto a city sidewalk, tried to hit, bite, etc. me. And he's 5.

I keep thinking there's anxiety about it all, but he won't tell me what, and we've been through the whole visit and he told me all about it and didn't seem to worry that it would hurt, etc. He refuses to even discuss it now. We rescheduled for 2 weeks away, but I don't know what will be different then. Do I really have to make him go? What's the harm if we just wait another 6 months and skip this one?
He is getting consequences b/c his behavior was ridiculous- basically we said no sweets till he goes, but he's pretty stubborn and he could go a long time. I've tried to be very supportive and soothing, but I was very angry when he ran and hit/bit- this is not behavior we see at any other time.

[mytwosons]

Would you consider trying another dentist? Your son might not be able to articulate what he fears about that particular office/dentist, but maybe taking him to a different practice would work?

FWIW, my 6 yr old still wants to sit on my lap to have his teeth cleaned. He's fine this way, so I go along with it.

[wolverine2]

I'm totally fine w/ him sitting on my lap... I told him he was welcome to do that.

I thought about the other dentist thing, and even talked about it w/ him once, but he's slower to warm up to new/unfamiliar places/people, so I'm not sure if it would help or make it worse. He didn't seem too interested in the idea, but I've wondered if I should just take him to my dentist. (but not sure how they'd be w/ kids).

[Kungjo]

My younger DD cries as soon as she walks into the ped's office or the dental office and tries to run away as well. on't have a solution either, but I feel your pain.

[HIU8]

DS is almost like this. I can get him to sit in the chair and he gets through most of the visit. Although we still need an xray of one side of his mouth. Have you tried pediatric sedation dentistry? I know a few people whose children have to be treated in that manner or they would never get dental work done.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I haven't the slightest idea how I eventually lured ds to the dentist when he was older. He had been going just fine till he had a cavity. The dentist at the time didn't want to use the "c" word and I was fine with that. However, just as ds was cooperatively getting into the chair the stupid dentist mentioned the "c" word and that was the end. the appointment ended in disaster. We had to leave and not get it done. I scheduled with a new dentist and I think there was a good deal of bribery involved with that appointment!

Beth

[Joolsplus2]

We went through this for YEARS with my ds. Not to discourage you... but it was bad. DS does have some pretty severe anxiety (treated with Zoloft now), so hopefully your outlook is rosier? It was the tartar scraping that absolutely put him over the edge. What finally cured him was that instead of a big scary mask, they presented the nitrous as a 'smells like a vanilla milkshake!' nose thingy, and now instead of scraping they use a super sonic water sprayer. Also the x-ray films made him gag a little, so that didn't help.

Sorry you're having to go through this (I know it can be easy, my girls love the dentist, even though they've had some cavities filled and probably should hate it).

[brittone2]

DS started w/ a semi traumatic experience (had a small filling done at around like 16 months old). He had issues w/ trusting the dentist for a long time. They were patient with him and we did all exams on lap, etc. and he only recently started sitting in the actual chair (he's 5.5...first chair visit was probably at 4.5?). They were really understanding. He would actually shake when we were walking into the office until he was like 3.

DD didn't have that early first traumatic experience and at 2.5 jumped right into the chair.

I'd talk with the dentist about gradually overcoming this. Since it is a pedi dentist, they have to have BTDT before. Maybe he can come in for a non-cleaning, non invasive quick visit or two, and then work toward more.

i'd be kinda hesitant to punish only because I'm guessing all of that was him just feeling really, really anxious and having sort of a fight or flight response, kwim? Withholding sweets probably isn't going to change that anxiety...if he's anxious enough, he may prefer taking the punishment to actually going, and that's not getting you where you need to go anyway, kwim? It would drive me nuts if DS lashed out like that, but at the same time, I know my DS was so anxious and scared after his early traumatic experience and it doesn't surprise me.

I'd definitely consider another office if needed. But I'd talk with them about how to gently work with him on overcoming his anxiety. If they can't help, try to find another dentist that can if there are other options in your area.

[wolverine2]

i'd be kinda hesitant to punish only because I'm guessing all of that was him just feeling really, really anxious and having sort of a fight or flight response, kwim? Withholding sweets probably isn't going to change that anxiety...if he's anxious enough, he may prefer taking the punishment to actually going, and that's not getting you where you need to go anyway, kwim?


Yes, I flip flop on this all the time. He seems much more willing to take consequences than to go. Which leaves me feeling kind of stuck because nothing works- we've done tons of positive attention, talking through it, incentives/bribery, etc. Nothing is big enough to make him agree to it. I'm not sure how to relieve the anxiety (and I'm a child therapist, so I should know! I've tried all my tricks! Always different with your own kids.) And now that we said no sweets, can I take it back?

I do think it's probably a good idea to visit without having any work done. At least I don't think it can hurt... and maybe even at a new dentist. The mystery is that he's never had anything hurtful done there- not even any scraping or anything, so my fear is it will only get worse if they actually start doing some work!

To those who have BTDT, you're not making me feel any better :) but at least it's nice to know that I'm not the only one... it's embarassing when you're dealing with this kind of thing in the waiting room, especially when it's not typical of your child.

[brittone2]

DO they have good distractions for him during the exam? Our pedi dentist has those viewfinder toys, sunglasses, stuff like that. Some kids do better if they can block out a little bit of that extra sensory input (bright overhead light) and the visual of tools coming at them, etc. kwim?

It doesn't sound like those things would get him past his anxiety right now, but if you can maybe get a non-invasive visit in or two and let him do those things (viewfinder, etc.), maybe it would help down the road once he's getting a full exam? I grasping at straws. It is hard when it is your kid, but at the same time, I think they have to have BTDT before. There are adults with severe dental anxiety, kwim? Kids just don't necessarily hide it as well ;)

I hope you can find a solution.

[tmarie]

I don't know if I have any advice, only hope. My oldest dd was like this for 2 yrs about the ped and the ped dentist. I actually skipped one of our dentist visits b/c I just couldn't take it with a newborn. Her tantrums at her 3yo dentist and peds visits were so over the top I was very concerned she might have bipolar disorder. It was BAD.

This past year I had her accompany me to almost all of dd#2's doctor visits. It seemed to help immensely. We would talk about the visits before, during and after. Dd#1 would actually try to soothe and calm down her baby sister. This year was magically different than last for dd#1. She was calm and cooperative during both her ped and dentist well checks, and even claims she wants to be a dentist. Just the other day she asked me when we were going back. She is incredibly proud of the fact she isn't scared of going to the dentist anymore. :)

Maybe your dc could accompany you to the dentist and watch? I wish you the best of luck. I so sympathize with what you're going through. Seriously, if he doesn't have any major teeth issues, I might just skip a year and see if that helps too....

GL!

tmarie

[wolverine2]

This past year I had her accompany me to almost all of dd#2's doctor visits. It seemed to help immensely. We would talk about the visits before, during and after. Dd#1 would actually try to soothe and calm down her baby sister.





This is a great idea. DS2 is 22 months and I might as well schedule something now. I might find a new place and bring DS1 along to DS2's dentist, with the hope that he may be willing to try "brother's" dentist in the future.

ETA: Just called a few practices and no one wants to see DS2 'cause he's too young and there are no concerns. So much for that idea. Why does the AAP recommend them being seen earlier than 3 if the dentists don't want to see them? I have an appointment scheduled in a few weeks for DS1, and can stop in before that to show him around (although I'm not sure if that's useful since he's already been at 3-4 appts and done the whole thing).

[mytwosons]

I do think it's probably a good idea to visit without having any work done. At least I don't think it can hurt... and maybe even at a new dentist. The mystery is that he's never had anything hurtful done there- not even any scraping or anything, so my fear is it will only get worse if they actually start doing some work!

My hygenist had me start bringing my kids to my appointments as soon as they were born. She said the typical smell of a dental office is so different from anywhere else that it can be enough to set kids off. She wanted them to be very used to the smell before they even got in the chair. As they became toddlers, she always offered them a "chair ride", but never forced the issue. At the first appointment, she only "counted" their teeth. She told me that plaque really isn't an issue at this age, they really just want to check for decay.

I would take him to a new dentist, take very small steps, and praise him for each success, no matter how small.

ETA: We did have one visit where he refused to get in the chair, so we rescheduled. When we left, the hygenist gave me several disposable exam mirrors (like the little mirrors they use to look at your teeth). We got to "play" dentist with them at home, and it did seem to help.

[wolverine2]

ETA: We did have one visit where he refused to get in the chair, so we rescheduled. When we left, the hygenist gave me several disposable exam mirrors (like the little mirrors they use to look at your teeth). We got to "play" dentist with them at home, and it did seem to help.

Another great idea- thanks!

[lmwbasye]

We went through something similar, but he was younger. HORRID first trip....awful for both him and me. Switched dentists and gave them a HUGE heads-up on the situation and all was well. He now LOVES the dentist and has dentist scrubs and all.

Hugs, Mama. That's a tough one.

[MamaMolly]

ETA: We did have one visit where he refused to get in the chair, so we rescheduled. When we left, the hygenist gave me several disposable exam mirrors (like the little mirrors they use to look at your teeth). We got to "play" dentist with them at home, and it did seem to help.

We do role playing for DD's blood draws, especially now that she is getting older (and can fight back more ;)). One of my mom friends IRL suggested it and it really made a huge difference. We do the whole thing, from the (ribbon) tie on the arm to the injection with an old dosing syringe. We tell her it will hurt but only for a minute. She really took to the role playing and while she was afraid, and was shaking, she was also very brave and compliant at the last one.

I'd try that and taking him along to your and DH's appointments. DD crawled all over me during my cleaning and the hygenist was so nice about it. frankly I'm surprised that you've been stonewalled getting DD in to see someone at 22 months. That was around the time we first took our DD and I'm glad I did, we found some weak spots in her enamel!

[Andi98989]

I clearly haven't BTDT because my DS is not even 2 weeks old, but I wanted to chime in. :) I remember for years being afraid of the "spit sucker" thing they would use to suction out the rinse water and saliva. I was scared that it would suck up my tongue. I still go to the same dentist office and even they remember that about me as a kid. Apparently I would really tense up and start to freak out when they came at me with that thing; we solved it by just having me leave my mouth open while they did the suction instead of closing around it like you normally do. I think I was a teenager before I started to be able to close my mouth around it. Also, I am really turned off by quite a few of the toothpastes that they use - especially mint. They actually have a note in my chart to give me a fruit flavored one. Not sure if any of this is helpful, but thought it might provide some insight.

[stinkyfeet]

I am a dentist and worked with MANY children. Based on what you wrote, I would suggest that you keep your appointment to the dentist and at LEAST have him sit in the chair (whether it is on your lap or not) and experiment with the equipment--see and try the spit sucker, the mouth mirror, and tooth counter (explorer). The hygienist can have DS hold a hand mirror so he can see how the instruments look while being placed in his mouth.

If that is all that can get done that day, that is ok--it is a HUGE milestone for him, but you need to tell him that they will need to do more and more each time.

If things are going well while he is sitting in the chair, the hygienist can ask permission to look in his mouth. She then can take another step and see if he will allow her to place the mirror in his mouth (of course, while he is still looking in the hand mirror). If things are still going well, she can then ask to count his teeth, clean his teeth and so forth. Of course, ppl don't enjoy being told how to do their job, so it might be a good idea to make kind suggestions to your hygienist to make her most receptive.

It is a good idea to keep the appointment to make sure that nothing major has happened since the last 6 months. Kid's teeth have thinner enamel and softer dentin than our adult teeth, so they decay and abcess at a much faster rate. Also, from my experience, kids often think that they "won" when their parent's give into their tantrums and let them go home or skip the appointment all together.

It is a good idea to have the dentist check the baby's mouth at around 1 year old. This is relatively new to the dental community which is why you probably get a lot of calls saying that it is not needed. I didn't necessarily need an appointment to see a baby this young--I would often just take a peek in the baby's mouth with gloved hands while a parent or older sibling was getting his teeth cleaned. It is mainly to check that there is no major disease present and to get the baby used to other people looking in their mouths. Kids usually start to do best to get their "official" first cleaning at around 3 or 4. It is a good idea for the toddler this age see a cooperative older sibling or a parent get his/her teeth cleaned first.

Uncooperative kids and younger children do the best for early morning appointments. And yes, it is worth taking them out of school to create the best possible experience for them.

And, I do agree with some of the other posters in saying that some children need to be sedated to have their dental work done. However, this is usually done for children with active dental disase--not for just a cleaning.

I hope this helps!! :waving4:

[wolverine2]

Thanks, stinkyfeet. The thing is that he has already seen all of the instruments, chair, etc. because he's already been 3 times to have cleanings and exams. (not that those were easy either, but at least we made it in). Though I do think it might be helpful to have him go but not actually have an exam or cleaning- no pressure.

I think reflecting on this that I need to start by treating it as anxiety, and I know that what works best for DS is backing off, and somehow letting him feel a bit more in control. I think that playing dentist will be helpful. I told him tonight that he must have been really scared at the dentist, and that I didn't understand why, but trying to validate his feelings.

I am not confident at all about getting him past the lobby in 2-3 weeks, because I'm not really sure how anything will have changed. As far as I know, he's got good teeth, and I'm just not going to pressure it. We'll play dentist, talk some more, and try again (maybe at a different dentist) in a few months. And we'll take him to our appts as well. And I'll try to get an appt somewhere for DS2 and take DS1 along. There is no way I am having him sedated to get his teeth cleaned. I just don't think it will get that bad. Hopefully.

[alexsmommy]

Will the dentist let you come in for a non-exam appointment? DS1 was terrified of the dentist - took us forever to figure out why (Finding Nemo -sigh). He refused to have anything to do with it. When DS2 was born he was tongue tied. We traveled pretty far to a pediatric dentist who used laser to cut his frenulum. On the follow up appt DS1 was with me and I mentiond to "Dr. Fred" that DS1 was reluctant (meaning terrified) to come see the dentist. This man was AMAZING. He took time to show DS1 all the equipment, showed him which tools blew air, water pic etc let DS1 work them. He told DS1 he had special treats for kids after their exams, but because he knew DS1 was nervous and let him show him all the equipment that he should get a prize just for listening to what Dr. Fred had to say. So he pulls a quarter out of his pocket and there is one of those prize machines on our way out for DS1 to use the quarter in. Dr. Fred had asked DS1 to come back and promised not to do anything DS1 didn't agree too. DS1 agreed so I wound up driving the 50 minutes another day just to take him. Meanwhile the office sends all new kids a book about the dentist (with Dr. Fred and his partner as the protagonists) and there was a video on his website. We read the book nightly leading up to the appointment. DS1 was still nervous but this office continued to amaze me - the dental hygenists were all as kid friendly as the Dr. Fred. They assured me they wouldn't push him into anything. They led him back with me and went at DS1's insanely slow pace, but we made it through the exam. DS1 was so proud of himself. We went back once more and I was so sad it's just too far to keep going back. I've referred tons of friends who live closer to the office than we do. It got DS1 over his fear and next visit we didn't even need to see a pediatric dentist - he willingly went to our family denist. The ped dentist closest to us has a very different philosophy and does not allow parents to go back with kids which would not have worked for us at all.
It's so hard when kids are terrified of something that is for their own good. DSD was terrified of eyedrops - it was like the Rachel in the "Friends" episode getting eyedrops in her eye at the opthamologist office. Fortunately I had worked there in grad school so they knew me - it took FOUR people to hold her down (she was nine so she got that we HAD to dialate her eyes for a condition she has). Crazy.
I hope you find a solution that gets him over this hump

[sariana]

And now that we said no sweets, can I take it back?

I wouldn't. Two weeks is not so long to go without sweets, and the "punishmnet" certainly fits the "crime." It won't hurt him to forego sweets for a couple of weeks.

I wish I had some advice, but my son LOVES going to the dentist and always has. He has never even been to a pediatric dentist, just the same practice DH and I go to. I did take DD to a ped dentist b/c our regular dentist won't see kids until they're 3. Now DS wants to go to DD's dentist because I told him there was a TV on the ceiling.

Most of DS's classmates in preschool did not like going to the dentist. I used to tell their moms to have their kids talk to my DS because he always gets excited. He went just a few weeks ago after school. He came out dancing and chanting, "I get to go to the dentist. I get to go to the dentist." Weird kid.

[wolverine2]

Alaina,
I need Dr. Fred! You don't live in New England, do you? :)

ETA: For real, can you PM me the video on his website?

[JTsMom]

I only skimmed, but has anyone mentioned finding some books about the dentist? There's a good one that features Mr. Rogers, with real photos. Even though he's been before, maybe reviewing what everything looks like and does may help.

Before DS's last cardiologist visit, we did a lot of playing doctor, and he got to be both the doctor and the patient. That helped a lot as well. We brought all of his equipment to the appointment as well, and the nurses and doctor were all awesome about that, and let him demo his stuff on them.

I think it also helps to give them as much control over the situation as you can. If you think about it, the mouth is a very private area, and going into that space can feel kind of violating to some people- look at how many adults have a paralyzing fear of the dentist.

FWIW, I would take back the sweets punishment. To me, this sounds like a true fear, and you can't punish that away. I'd simply say that I'd thought about it and changed my mind.

[carolinamama]

Will the dentist let you come in for a non-exam appointment? DS1 was terrified of the dentist - took us forever to figure out why (Finding Nemo -sigh). He refused to have anything to do with it. When DS2 was born he was tongue tied. We traveled pretty far to a pediatric dentist who used laser to cut his frenulum. On the follow up appt DS1 was with me and I mentiond to "Dr. Fred" that DS1 was reluctant (meaning terrified) to come see the dentist. This man was AMAZING. He took time to show DS1 all the equipment, showed him which tools blew air, water pic etc let DS1 work them. He told DS1 he had special treats for kids after their exams, but because he knew DS1 was nervous and let him show him all the equipment that he should get a prize just for listening to what Dr. Fred had to say. So he pulls a quarter out of his pocket and there is one of those prize machines on our way out for DS1 to use the quarter in. Dr. Fred had asked DS1 to come back and promised not to do anything DS1 didn't agree too. DS1 agreed so I wound up driving the 50 minutes another day just to take him. Meanwhile the office sends all new kids a book about the dentist (with Dr. Fred and his partner as the protagonists) and there was a video on his website. We read the book nightly leading up to the appointment. DS1 was still nervous but this office continued to amaze me - the dental hygenists were all as kid friendly as the Dr. Fred. They assured me they wouldn't push him into anything. They led him back with me and went at DS1's insanely slow pace, but we made it through the exam. DS1 was so proud of himself. We went back once more and I was so sad it's just too far to keep going back. I've referred tons of friends who live closer to the office than we do. It got DS1 over his fear and next visit we didn't even need to see a pediatric dentist - he willingly went to our family denist. The ped dentist closest to us has a very different philosophy and does not allow parents to go back with kids which would not have worked for us at all.
It's so hard when kids are terrified of something that is for their own good. DSD was terrified of eyedrops - it was like the Rachel in the "Friends" episode getting eyedrops in her eye at the opthamologist office. Fortunately I had worked there in grad school so they knew me - it took FOUR people to hold her down (she was nine so she got that we HAD to dialate her eyes for a condition she has). Crazy.
I hope you find a solution that gets him over this hump

Seriously, this is why I would consider looking into another pediatric dentist if it is necessary. Visit before DS gets exam etc. We :heartbeat: our DC's dentist. Not only is he like "Dr. Fred" but so are the hygentists. They always let DS play with the the instruments, go very slowly, and make a big deal out of the stickers and prizes. They have movies during the exam for the kids and all parents have to sit in the exam area with their kids. The office has a jungle theme and just looks as fun as possible.

I know that hospitals employ child-life specialists to help kids prepare for and deal with medical procedures. Maybe there is an equivalent for dental work too?

[alexsmommy]

Alaina,
I need Dr. Fred! You don't live in New England, do you? :)

ETA: For real, can you PM me the video on his website?

Check your PM. Hope it helps.