S/O: Have you commented to someone who glared at you during a public tantrum?

[alien_host]

Since the other thread was so interesting, I'm wondering if anyone has said anything back to someone who glared at you/gave you the stinkeye when your child was having a tantrum in public?

I have, but it is rare for me.

I was at the supermarket using the self checkout and DD wanted candy (damn candy at the checkout). I told her calmly we weren't buying candy today and after she asked for the fourth time, she had a fit, threw her self on the floor etc. It was totally my fault for taking her to the store while she was tired but I needed something for dinner.

The lady across from me (older woman) totally rolled her eyes at me and glared at me. As I walked out of the store with DD under my arm kicking and screaming, I said to her, "you really should mind your own business". She was horrified but you know what? It felt great!

I also said to a woman (different time), "I'd appreciate it if you didn't judge me". - she was a mom with a few older kids with her. I probably shouldn't have said anything in front of her kids but she was clearly giving me "that look".

People are always taken back when I say something. Sometimes I just can't help it. ;)

[brittone2]

My MIL once asked me on a visit (9 hour drive to see them) if DS had many tantrums (he was not quite 2). He was not having a tantrum at the time...she just asked. I said, yeah, he has them here and there, but not many (his didn't really kick in until 3 LOL). I smiled and said that I was sure we'd see our share in the coming year.

She then told me that if DS starts tantruming I should throw a glass of water in his face, because that's what they did on the advice of their pediatrician when DH was small. They "only had to do it once or twice" and DH was apparently cured of all tantrums.

I had some comments for her after that ;)

[Fairy]

Beth, I don't even know what to say about the water thing. Makes me sad! Poor DH.

I've not had that many dirty looks, but like all of us, I have experienced at least a few. I absolutely talk back to them. I've said, "what are you looking at?!" And in the rare case that someone is unduly and rudely snarky, I've been known to say, "I know you didn't just say that!"

[arivecchi]

She then told me that if DS starts tantruming I should throw a glass of water in his face, because that's what they did on the advice of their pediatrician when DH was small. They "only had to do it once or twice" and DH was apparently cured of all tantrums.

:eek: OMG, she thought she was sharing a gem with you didn't she?

I have been known to say "Can I help you?" to idiots who stare while trying to deal.

[egoldber]

I did once on an airplane. Amy was upset (she almost always is during taxi and takeoff and then settles down). The person behind me made a comment and I stood up and turned around and said "You're welcome to take care of her if you think you can do a better job."

It felt good......

[codex57]

What's the objection to that water thing? I've heard some other people on another board try it. Said it worked.

One was a cup of water in the face, the other threw the kid in the shower and turned on cold water. Doesn't physically hurt em and the shock of it stops the tantrum.

DS doesn't really have tantrums yet but I'd like to hear the objections to this method cuz I was thinking of trying it when the terrible twos kick in.

[Kitten007]

Oh I have a big mouth. I most of the time either glare back or say something.

We were at Souplantation once and DS1 was screaming because he wanted to walk around and go outside (my sis forgot that he needs to stay in his chair and eat, so she took him with her to get food and all hell broke loose). Well we were in the back with other families with kids and he had maybe cried for 20-30 seconds when this lady comes up from another table (all adult table) and tells me to take him outside because she wants to enjoy her dinner. Well I let her have it! I told her let me teach my son a lesson and she should mind her own business. I told her by taking him outside he was being rewarded and not learning a thing. (I would have taken him out if he cried for more than 2 minutes, but dang lady...give me a chance to be a parent). I told her if she wanted a nice quiet sit down dinner she should have gone to a nice restaurant and not a family restaurant.

Oh well.....let me please try to learn this really tough job called PARENTING!!! It would be nice if people would just be patient and understanding!

[brittone2]

What's the objection to that water thing? I've heard some other people on another board try it. Said it worked.

One was a cup of water in the face, the other threw the kid in the shower and turned on cold water. Doesn't physically hurt em and the shock of it stops the tantrum.

DS doesn't really have tantrums yet but I'd like to hear the objections to this method cuz I was thinking of trying it when the terrible twos kick in.

Ummm...I hope you are kidding.

I consider it beyond disrespectful to do to any human being.

[bubbaray]

What's the objection to that water thing? I've heard some other people on another board try it. Said it worked.

One was a cup of water in the face, the other threw the kid in the shower and turned on cold water. Doesn't physically hurt em and the shock of it stops the tantrum.

DS doesn't really have tantrums yet but I'd like to hear the objections to this method cuz I was thinking of trying it when the terrible twos kick in.


Seriously? Because I wouldn't even do that to my dog....

[arivecchi]

deleted :(

[Fairy]

Codex, in my mind, that is a form of corporal punishment, and you'll find that on this board, we tend to lean one way or the other on certain kinds of things. For instance, we're heavy on the breast feeding, big anti-circ's, etc. I do see many of the other ends of things, and we do tend to be very tolerant by and large of the minority approach (e.g., I'm a circ supporter). However, you are not going to find too many supporters of spanking here or other physical types of punishment. They do exist on our board, and they are probably quiet about it cuz of the reactions you've seen so far. But honestly, my guess is that you're not going to find too much support.

If I saw a stranger do that to their child in a restaurant, I'd probably start crying right there. I am militantly, militantly against spanking and physical punishment, but taking water and tossing it in someone's face like that is also, in my mind, degrading.

[TwinFoxes]

I told her if she wanted a nice quiet sit down dinner she should have gone to a nice restaurant and not a family restaurant.



Seriously! I never understood why someone who want a nice quiet dinner would go someplace like the Souplantation! What, does she go to matinees of Pixar movies too? I'm not saying kids should run buck wild even in Souplantation, but you've gotta figure there might be a crying kid or two there.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I did. We were at a restaurant and DD squealed every time she saw the flame from the pizza oven. I remarked to my DH and Aunt visiting, what can you do. The woman next to us said , LEAVE. I saw she is 2, she said that is no excuse. I said she is excited by the fire, she made a snappy remark about how her children never did it. I said that's great, your mother of the year award is in the mail. I went out to the car and cried tears of anger... It was at a very loud restaurant. Our poor waitress said sorry, and felt so bad. I told DH as soon as the woman sat down, she did not want to sit next to a child, I know the look, I get it with DD all the time.

[calv]

yup, happened yesterday as a matter of fact as I had a cart full @ target. Some women, seems to me it's the older folks even though there are mother's w/kids in toe that give the look.

[infomama]

I did. We were at a restaurant and DD squealed every time she saw the flame from the pizza oven. I remarked to my DH and Aunt visiting, what can you do. The woman next to us said , LEAVE. I saw she is 2, she said that is no excuse. I said she is excited by the fire, she made a snappy remark about how her children never did it. I said that's great, your mother of the year award is in the mail. I went out to the car and cried tears of anger... It was at a very loud restaurant. Our poor waitress said sorry, and felt so bad. I told DH as soon as the woman sat down, she did not want to sit next to a child, I know the look, I get it with DD all the time.
:hug: What a total B. I would have ripped her a new one after a comment like that.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

:hug: What a total B. I would have ripped her a new one after a comment like that.

Ya know how the good comebacks come to you 5 mins after???? I was so in shock, I could only think to say "That's great for you. Your mother of the year award is in the mail". Since then I have though of other things to say, some not so nice. :hopmad:

[TwinFoxes]

Ya know how the good comebacks come to you 5 mins after???? I was so in shock, I could only think to say "That's great for you. Your mother of the year award is in the mail". Since then I have though of other things to say, some not so nice. :hopmad:

I think that is a really good comeback! Way to think on your feet.

[Twoboos]

I did once on an airplane. Amy was upset (she almost always is during taxi and takeoff and then settles down). The person behind me made a comment and I stood up and turned around and said "You're welcome to take care of her if you think you can do a better job."

It felt good......

We had a similar airplane incident. DD1 wouldn't settle into her carseat when we needed to start taxiing and DH wouldn't manhandle her, LOL. So I got up and noticed all the eyes. I finally got her into her seatbelt while saying VERY loudly - "If you have a better idea of how to handle this, let me know, but until then TURN AROUND!" All eyes were forward after that, DD settled down and the rest of the flight was fine.

And indeed, it DID feel good!

[infomama]

Ya know how the good comebacks come to you 5 mins after???? I was so in shock, I could only think to say "That's great for you. Your mother of the year award is in the mail". Since then I have though of other things to say, some not so nice. :hopmad:
I hear ya. I'm sure she got the message loud and clear. ;). Glad you said something to her.

[alien_host]

Ya know how the good comebacks come to you 5 mins after???? I was so in shock, I could only think to say "That's great for you. Your mother of the year award is in the mail". Since then I have though of other things to say, some not so nice. :hopmad:

I'm saving this comeback for when I need it next! :)

[LarsMal]

She then told me that if DS starts tantruming I should throw a glass of water in his face, because that's what they did on the advice of their pediatrician when DH was small. They "only had to do it once or twice" and DH was apparently cured of all tantrums.


DS's first SLP gave me a parenting packet one week after watching DD throw a fit the previous week. I thought it was so rude of her- I'm sure I posted about it here! One of the "tips" was to take water and pour it over your child's head during a tantrum. I couldn't believe what I was reading until I saw that it was decades old!

To OP: I haven't made any comments YET, but I'm sure I will one of these days. I've given back, "What the h&ll are you looking at?" looks, but haven't said anything. I'm afraid of what might come out of my mouth if I get caught up in that! I've certainly earned my B&TCH card, and carry it proudly!

[codex57]

Codex, in my mind, that is a form of corporal punishment, and you'll find that on this board, we tend to lean one way or the other on certain kinds of things. For instance, we're heavy on the breast feeding, big anti-circ's, etc. I do see many of the other ends of things, and we do tend to be very tolerant by and large of the minority approach (e.g., I'm a circ supporter). However, you are not going to find too many supporters of spanking here or other physical types of punishment. They do exist on our board, and they are probably quiet about it cuz of the reactions you've seen so far. But honestly, my guess is that you're not going to find too much support.

If I saw a stranger do that to their child in a restaurant, I'd probably start crying right there. I am militantly, militantly against spanking and physical punishment, but taking water and tossing it in someone's face like that is also, in my mind, degrading.

Thank you for actually responding seriously. I honestly didn't know, which is why I asked. I'm not too concerned about being popular, which I think was recently made clear on another thread. I just want information and make my decision based on that. If it's not popular, I don't really care as long as I'm comfortable with my decision. I just need the info.

So, it seems as if the main reason against doing that is that it's "degrading." I'll have to take some time to decide if I agree or not. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but this is something I learned with car seats. You cannot project how you feel (physically and emotionally) onto a toddler. It doesn't always match up. For example, people often turn their kids forward facing far too soon because they think their child is physically uncomfortable. That's actually quite untrue, but they project their adult expectations onto that of their child who is totally different physically and mentally. Same with this. "Shame" is something a toddler is just learning. Might not even be mentally ready to understand it. After all, a toddler has no problems running around naked or having their butt exposed in public while you change their diaper while an adult would.

[brittone2]

DS's first SLP gave me a parenting packet one week after watching DD throw a fit the previous week. I thought it was so rude of her- I'm sure I posted about it here! One of the "tips" was to take water and pour it over your child's head during a tantrum. I couldn't believe what I was reading until I saw that it was decades old!


Wow, that's awful :(

Yeah, when MIL said it, it wasn't like she said..."oh, can you believe back then we though that was a good idea?" She genuinely thought it was a great and viable option.

I'm thankful that we currently live out of state, although we may be moving back close to my ILs in the coming months. Statements like the one about the water in the face are among many reasons why they do not/will not babysit my kids. Ever. FIL once tried to tell me they "didn't spank that much" but then told me when his kids were about 6 weeks old he started "smacking them on the bottom" if they kicked too much during diaper changes :( I was supposed to find that comforting?

In terms of people's comments in public, I swear, I think I'm just immune. DS only ever had one huge public tantrum, but it was in a 2 story B&N, and I had to carry him kicking and screaming at the top of his lungs out of the store, and it was a loooong walk. And everyone, I mean everyone could hear him and we surely were getting looks, but I didn't even look around because I was carrying a flailing, screaming kid. I was in crisis mode ;) Surely everyone thought he the worst kid ever (and that I was the worst parent ever)...and the funny thing is that he really never had public tantrums otherwise (home was a different manner).

I feel for anyone who has had someone actually try to call them out publicly. All kids have bad days sometimes, and sometimes life has to go on even w/ a screaming or tantruming kid.

[brittone2]

Thank you for actually responding seriously. I honestly didn't know, which is why I asked. I'm not too concerned about being popular, which I think was recently made clear on another thread. I just want information and make my decision based on that. If it's not popular, I don't really care as long as I'm comfortable with my decision. I just need the info.

So, it seems as if the main reason against doing that is that it's "degrading." I'll have to take some time to decide if I agree or not.

Personally, I don't think you can punish away a tantrum. Tantrums are unpleasant for everyone, but it is an immature expression of big feelings. Kids outgrow them as they gain emotional maturity. It is far better to teach them to identify, label, and work with their emotions IMO rather than attempting to shock them out of feeling what they feel.

To me, it sends a message of "happy is the only acceptable emotion". And honestly, that's about how DH and his siblings grew up. It wasn't emotionally healthy.

Don't get me wrong, tantrums are totally, totally annoying. But they are part of normal development. We never "give in" to the cause of the tantrum, but I don't feel it is my job to stop my kids from feeling what they feel. If it happens in public, I usually carry them outside or whatever so as not to disturb others. But I'm not a believer in trying to punish away a tantrum (or shock the daylights out of a kid w/ a glass of water over the head). Honestly, many of my kids' biggest tantrums have been the result of me pushing them too far (they needed a nap, we were out too late) or an unmet need like being over hungry and having low blood sugar, etc.

[codex57]

I think there's a difference between punishing a tantrum vs shocking them to stop so you can then start your parenting on how to better express themselves.

Take a student driver. Goes the wrong way on the road. Well, you gotta get them back on the right side and out of danger so you have time to then teach again. Kinda hard to teach when everyone is panicking about oncoming cars.

I'm not saying the water thing should be the only way to handle a tantrum. I'm just trying to decide whether it should be in my toolbox of techniques to use when dealing with a tantrum. After all, your favorite technique isn't gonna work all the time so it's good to have other tips to try.

[boogiemomz]

Personally, I don't think you can punish away a tantrum. Tantrums are unpleasant for everyone, but it is an immature expression of big feelings. Kids outgrow them as they gain emotional maturity. It is far better to teach them to identify, label, and work with their emotions IMO rather than attempting to shock them out of feeling what they feel.

To me, it sends a message of "happy is the only acceptable emotion". And honestly, that's about how DH and his siblings grew up. It wasn't emotionally healthy.

Don't get me wrong, tantrums are totally, totally annoying. But they are part of normal development. We never "give in" to the cause of the tantrum, but I don't feel it is my job to stop my kids from feeling what they feel. If it happens in public, I usually carry them outside or whatever so as not to disturb others. But I'm not a believer in trying to punish away a tantrum (or shock the daylights out of a kid w/ a glass of water over the head). Honestly, many of my kids' biggest tantrums have been the result of me pushing them too far (they needed a nap, we were out too late) or an unmet need like being over hungry and having low blood sugar, etc.


Very, very well put! thank you for sharing that. i was spanked as a kid and don't necessarily believe i'm worse for the wear, but am sorting out my feelings about discipline (first baby due in 2 weeks) and how to manage behavior problems (though i know i have no idea what i'm even in for!!). i really appreciate this very thoughtful articulation of why this isn't the best approach, it really resonates with me. :thumbsup:

[m448]

codex by the time a kid hits a tantrum the teachable moment is gone -they've entered fight or flight time. Throwing a glass of water over them continues the feeling of fight or flight and no one's brain is receptive to absorbing information when your adrenaline is pumping.

The teachable moment is much later when the child has calmed down. That might take a while. Like Beth mentioned teaching kids to stuff their feelings (by not allowing them to be frustrated) backfires well into adulthood. Yeah tantrums are definitely no fun but I see them as opportunities for me as a parent to arm them with tools on handling those difficult moments. Hours later when they've calmed down sometimes we talk about what could have been done differently or when they're younger I tell them they can go take a break in their comfort corner, ask for a hug, ask for a snack or take a break in their room to go punch a pillow.

My thoughts are a bit scattered right now but throwing the water over their head or any other technique that shuts down a child from expressing what they ALREADY feel is a sure way to have it come out in a myriad of other behaviors.

re: the analogy I think it's more like using a tazer on the student vs. correcting them because the shock of the water on the child is about the same reaction you would get from a driver getting tazered (probably might read on medical sensors the same way). And that makes very little sense to me.

[codex57]

codex by the time a kid hits a tantrum the teachable moment is gone -they've entered fight or flight time. Throwing a glass of water over them continues the feeling of fight or flight and no one's brain is receptive to absorbing information when your adrenaline is pumping.

The teachable moment is much later when the child has calmed down. That might take a while. Like Beth mentioned teaching kids to stuff their feelings (by not allowing them to be frustrated) backfires well into adulthood. Yeah tantrums are definitely no fun but I see them as opportunities for me as a parent to arm them with tools on handling those difficult moments. Hours later when they've calmed down sometimes we talk about what could have been done differently or when they're younger I tell them they can go take a break in their comfort corner, ask for a hug, ask for a snack or take a break in their room to go punch a pillow.

My thoughts are a bit scattered right now but throwing the water over their head or any other technique that shuts down a child from expressing what they ALREADY feel is a sure way to have it come out in a myriad of other behaviors.

re: the analogy I think it's more like using a tazer on the student vs. correcting them because the shock of the water on the child is about the same reaction you would get from a driver getting tazered (probably might read on medical sensors the same way). And that makes very little sense to me.

Oooh, this is good. Sorry OP for hijacking. I'm debating to take this into PM cuz I think this is very educational for other parents trying to learn.

How does it affect them into adulthood?

Do you think teaching them long afterwards (since it can take a long time to get over the tantrum) is as effective as teaching them right after an episode (which "shocking" them would allow you to do?) What I'm trying to now find out is what is worse: these effects of not allowing them to express frustration vs the deteriorating effect a lesson has the further away it is from the incident.

[niccig]

Oooh, this is good. Sorry OP for hijacking. I'm debating to take this into PM cuz I think this is very educational for other parents trying to learn.

How does it affect them into adulthood?

Do you think teaching them long afterwards (since it can take a long time to get over the tantrum) is as effective as teaching them right after an episode (which "shocking" them would allow you to do?) What I'm trying to now find out is what is worse: these effects of not allowing them to express frustration vs the deteriorating effect a lesson has the further away it is from the incident.

I'll answer. In my experience, not being taught how to deal appropriately with your emotions and you anger is very detrimental to a person. It was to me. I have a temper, and am quick to anger. I was spanked for hitting my sisters for example, but I was NEVER helped to deal with those feelings that made me hit in the first place Guess what happened next time I got frustrated/angry with my sisters, I would hit or kick them. And I would get spanked for it again, and again and again. I never got help with the underlying issues.

When I was and I should say am tantruming, as I still lose it sometimes, there is no talking to me. Throw water on my face and watch out what will be THROWN back at you, and yes I would have done that as a child. My mohter hit my across the face once, and I hit her right back. By throwing water, I feel that you are escalating the conflict. Anytime DS is having a tantrum, if I feed into that by losing my calm, the tantrum rages and rages. By keeping my calm, and removing him to a quiet place - car, his bedroom, outside. I talk calmly to him and get him to calm down. Then we can talk about what happened, what he felt, why what he did wasn't appropriate and how he could have responded instead. We do a lot of role playing the situation and try to work out different techniques he can use. I have seen a difference with DS, he'll tell me that he is upset and he's going to his room to calm down. He takes deep breaths, he asks for a glass of water...all these things help him regain his composure and then we can deal with the problem and we quickly move on. Escalating the conflict, well then it goes on and on and on, and you've got more to deal with then what set the tantrum off, you've got the initial issue and how they behaved during the tantrum.

What he is learning as a child, I didn't learn until my 20s. That's 2 decades of anger and pent up emotions. In my opinion and just based on how my parents dealt with my tantrums, or didn't deal I should say, DS is getting a handle on his emotions. I believe discipline is teaching, and not punishing. I also wouldn't do something to DS that I wouldn't want done to me. And I don't buy into the car seat analogy. I have forced DS into his car seat as it's for his safety, no choice with that kiddo, but throwing a glass of water for a tantrum, you have other options you don't HAVE to do that. To me, it's like slapping them to shock them out of it. Ayway, that's just my opinion.

[m448]

Hmmm, interesting question and this is my initial thought. It's all in how you view the whole of parenting. I view discipline exactly what the meaning of the word indicates - to teach. Not punishment which is reactionary but teaching by example and outright lessons, 24/7 which is what happens in any family. Kids learn to love from their parents, they learn how to treat others by how they are treated, they learn conflict resolution from siblings and friends LOL.

When my kid has a tantrum my goal isn't to try to teach him how NOT to have a tantrum. I realize he has a deficiency in maturity and tools to deal with those big feelings of his. So the goal is to teach him how to deal with tough moments. As the parent I instantly realize we will have no shortage of frustrating moments so I wait until later. We have a talk about what tools he can use to calm down or ask for help. Also as your child gets older you tune into their triggers and kind of keep your parental radar up. As my kids get older I can offer them cues in the pre-meltdown moments like, "you look very frustrated, maybe taking some deep breaths can help. Here, let's try." Some kids favor some other tools like walking away for a while. It's a process and one that as an adult I had to learn myself.

I was a "good girl" never say no, compliant type. Getting angry as a child was not allowed in my house and the thing is that no matter how ugly a feeling, the minute you admit you're feeling it, you can move on to positive feelings. Like Niccig mentioned that meant as an adult I went from 0-60 in angry moments with no in between. No outlet for verbally telling someone I was upset, no multiple words for expressing WHY I was upset. To say it handicapped me in early marriage is an understatement.

I highly recommend checking out the gentle christian mothers site or this one for their articles too:


http://www.aolff.org/

http://goybparenting.com/

Both women on these sites are not only very experienced with children in general but have their own children and are very sensible but loving in their approach.


eta: I also wanted to note that the above scenario is our ideal, our goal. Do I meet this ideal all the time? No way. I definitely have my less than great days and I'm not perfect but I come back to this.

[Gena]

There are days when we get a lot of stares when out in public. Sometimes it's due to (what I consider) really minor stuff, like DS stimming a lot or obsessing over something or being loud in a happy nonsensical way. I'm used to those stares and don't usually react to them. If somebody is really glaring at us, I might smile and say, "We're having a stimmy day."

But DS is capable of some really horrible behavior in public: full meltdowns, running away fom me and crashing into people/things, yelling and screaming, etc. When DS was younger, I often got sympathetic looks from strangers when these things happened. Now that he's getting older, I'm getting more angry glares and rude comments. Most of the time I don't respond when this happens - I don't have the time or the breathe to respond! If the person is really rude I use the opportunity to educate him/her about autism.

I'm thinking about making some autism awareness cards to hand out when people glare/make rude comments. I know a couple of other families who do that. I like the wording on this one and may do something similar:
http://okparentnetwork.org/v-web/productpage/images/aac6.PNG

[AshleyAnn]

About 18 months ago DH, one of DH's friends, and I were at Target and there was a family with 4 kids who were all screaming. We're run into them all over the store and were just ignoring it as part of being in public. We got in the checkout line and they got in the one next to ours. It was a SLOW day at checkout and there were long lines. DH was paying for our purchases and her DH was loading thier stuff back into the cart. Suddenly the woman blurts something out about us being kids and just wait until we're parents, yadda, yadda, yadda. We weren't even facing her!!!! I was making it a point to ignore her. DH'd freind said something about not evening looking at her and she went off. The lady behind us said something along the lines of "Somebody's feeling insecure" and we booked it out of there before crazy mom could attack us some more.

I will admit I did judge her for dragging 4 screaming kids through every single department (including sporting goods and DVDs - the 2 we were in) and she was just really mean to the kids "OK OK - I know you're hungry. SHUT UP. We will get something to eat at McDonalds as soon as we're done shopping". The McDonalds is in the same parking lot she could have easily fed them before coming into the store or left her shopping cart and come back but it just seemed like she was taking her sweet time letting her kids meltdown and ignoring it.

[codex57]

Thank you so much for sharing, everyone. This has been incredibly helpful.

[ChunkyNicksChunkyMom]

What's the objection to that water thing? I've heard some other people on another board try it. Said it worked.

One was a cup of water in the face, the other threw the kid in the shower and turned on cold water. Doesn't physically hurt em and the shock of it stops the tantrum.

DS doesn't really have tantrums yet but I'd like to hear the objections to this method cuz I was thinking of trying it when the terrible twos kick in.

Flagger, is that you??

[MamaMolly]

Wow, that's awful :(

Yeah, when MIL said it, it wasn't like she said..."oh, can you believe back then we though that was a good idea?" She genuinely thought it was a great and viable option.



But in her defense it was advice she'd been given by her child's pediatrician. That generation didn't argue with doctors. Plus, as she said, it worked. So she probably thought she was *was* helping you. She just didn't know you are a modern mama armed with all kinds of alternatives :) My mom always said she hated 'having' to spank us and that she wished she'd known about techniques like Time-Out when we were little. 'Course now I'm reading threads where TO is considered inhumane, so you've got to take that comment with a grain of salt. ;)

And for the PP who was seeking answers about the water in the face technique, you are right to listen to your own heart. When considering something like this it may be helpful to remember a time when you were maybe dunked at the pool as a child, or had some icy beverage pilled on you. It is the shock factor that makes it work. It's just not very nice to have happen to you. Also, you have to consider what your child gets from it. Do they learn to calm themselves? Or do they just know something really nasty is going to happen? For me it comes down to wanting DD to work through the tantrums and learn to control them for herself. So I choose not to do the water thing.

I'm finding that with DD, what seems to stop the tantrum is to tell her a 'you are never going to believe what just happened!!!' story. Like last night, she was screaming in the car so hard she'd broken a sweat and was in real danger of giving herself a nose bleed. I'm talking hysterics. So I told her about this tree frog that jumped out of the tree and plopped on the ground right next to me etc, etc etc. She took one last deep breath and said REALLY MOMMY? and was done. She's 3 now, and when she was younger just holding her snuggled up close seemed to help. She fights it now so we do the goofy story. Also getting face to face and whispering is pretty helpful. Ok, there are my 2 cents, I hope it helps.

[o_mom]

flagger, is that you??


lol! :ROTFLMAO:

[brittone2]

But in her defense it was advice she'd been given by her child's pediatrician. That generation didn't argue with doctors. Plus, as she said, it worked. So she probably thought she was *was* helping you. She just didn't know you are a modern mama armed with all kinds of alternatives :) My mom always said she hated 'having' to spank us and that she wished she'd known about techniques like Time-Out when we were little. 'Course now I'm reading threads where TO is considered inhumane, so you've got to take that comment with a grain of salt. ;)


Well, there is a loooong history with MIL/FIL. I mean, very long. I totally get that things have changed since we were kids. I was spanked by my parents. I don't particularly hold it against my parents...they did what they could and what they knew at the time. But I know they would never, ever lay a hand on my children. Ever. They are amazingly gentle and patient grandparents. It doesn't even cross my mind that they would attempt to spank my kids. When it comes to info that our parents were given and how it differs from the info today, my parents have asked why we do X, but when we explain, they listen. They get it. They get that things change. My ILs will make passive aggressive or just direct comments about us doing X, but you simply can't explain that things are different. They aren't receptive. They refuse to hear it. For example, over and over when DS was a baby they would ask why he wasn't wearing shoes. I could explain over and over again why (he wasn't yet walking, it was warm out, etc.) but every. single. time. they saw us they'd ask. They would also insist he'd be "already walking" if he was in hard-soled old-fashioned white baby shoes, even though I gently and patiently explained over and over again (and they knew I worked as a physical therapist in early intervention for crying out loud!). He walked at 13.5 months, so it was totally in the normal range anyway, but over and over they made shoe comments. They just don't want to listen or realize that things are different. That is just one mild example, but there is a lengthy list (and many of those issues were not as benign as the shoe issue)

My parents definitely did many things differently than we do, but they accept that the advice changes and we do the best we know at this moment. If they had it to do over, I don't think they'd spank, kwim? MIL and FIL on the other hand have such a totally different philosophy than us and do not respect our wishes at all. I don't trust that they would not spank or handle our kids in an inappropriate fashion. DH feels the same way.

My BIL/SIL live very close to my ILs, and are expecting their first baby. DH and I are actually worried for their marriage (BIL will have a very tough time standing up to his parents. It was tough for DH but he has done it, thankfully), as my ILs were so difficult to deal with in DS's babyhood (before we moved out of state and 9 hours away when he was just over 1). My ILs unfortunately haven't seemed to learn anything from the tension they created with us...they have already made remarks about how "they'll do what they want when the baby is at their house" that have my SIL's feathers ruffled. And the baby has not yet arrived. I fear it is not going to be pretty. At all.

[codex57]

Flagger, is that you??

Errr, no but it sounds like an interesting story/character.

[egoldber]

Throw water on my face and watch out what will be THROWN back at you,

I was thinking to myself when I read this that if I tried this with Amy the consequences would be long, loud and ugly. And if I did it to Sarah I'd be explaining why for the next three years.

I will admit to having once thrown water on my niece when she lived with us. :o In my defense, she was 16, and I was in my 20s dealing with a depressed kid with a lot of issues that I was totally unprepared to handle. And she would not get out of bed and was ruining a planned outing that many people were looking forward to.

And it did work....

[JBaxter]

Flagger, is that you??

:hysterical: :ROTFLMAO:

[arivecchi]

Codex, you might want to pick up Happiest Toddler on the Block which explains how the brains of toddlers work and why throwing water at them would be a monumentally bad idea.

[edurnemk]

How does it affect them into adulthood?

DH was brought up in a family just like what brittone and m448 describe, and to this day we cannot have a serious adult conversation, because if I show any sign of emotion (anger, sadness, etc) even if it's just a facial expression, he'll freak out and say things like "see? I can't tell you anything because you get upset, it's impossible to talk to you" and use that as a way to flee the discussion. He won't talk unless I use my poker face, apparently. I once tried to tell him I was very sad because I felt abandoned (he spent an insane amount of time at work among other things) and his answer when he saw me cry was "Is it that time of the month?" And he proceeded to tell me that he was sure it was 100% hormonal, bla, bla, and refuse to aknowledge or validate my pain.

In DH's case they also don't show great joy, they consider "calm" to be the only acceptable state.

He and his sister still stuff their feelings, have no idea of how to handle them and so they are terrified of any show of emotion. SIL has clinical depression. DH has had a couple of breakdowns. And still they refuse to aknowledge negative emotions and deal with them. This issue, along with a few others, are really becoming a HUGE obstacle for our marriage.


To me, it sends a message of "happy is the only acceptable emotion". And honestly, that's about how DH and his siblings grew up. It wasn't emotionally healthy.


Like Beth mentioned teaching kids to stuff their feelings (by not allowing them to be frustrated) backfires well into adulthood.

[AshleyAnn]

DH was brought up in a family just like what brittone and m448 describe, and to this day we cannot have a serious adult conversation, because if I show any sign of emotion (anger, sadness, etc) even if it's just a facial expression, he'll freak out and say things like "see? I can't tell you anything because you get upset, it's impossible to talk to you" and use that as a way to flee the discussion. He won't talk unless I use my poker face, apparently. I once tried to tell him I was very sad because I felt abandoned (he spent an insane amount of time at work among other things) and his answer when he saw me cry was "Is it that time of the month?" And he proceeded to tell me that he was sure it was 100% hormonal, bla, bla, and refuse to aknowledge or validate my pain.



Thats my DH. He buries every little problem we have. He won't disagree about little things until there are so many we can't sort through them and then when it does finally come out he wants to go for a walk. alone. And when he comes back he has reburied everything.

He doesn't ever blame my hormones. (Thats me. I blame my own hormones just to avoid the fight, walk, silence cycle)

[LarsMal]

What's the objection to that water thing? I've heard some other people on another board try it. Said it worked.

One was a cup of water in the face, the other threw the kid in the shower and turned on cold water. Doesn't physically hurt em and the shock of it stops the tantrum.


I briefly skimmed the other responses you got, and just wanted to throw this out there.

A more gentle approach to this whole water thing is to take a cool washcloth and place it on the back of their neck. I haven't done this with a toddler, but I have done it on more than one occassion with my first two when they were babies. I did it a couple times when they were crying out of control and nothing I did seemed to work. I got a cool wash cloth, gently rubbed it on their forehead and back of their neck while using a soothing voice. It definitely calmed them down.

Maybe I'll try that on DD1 next time and see if it still works!

[MamaKath]

Personally, I don't think you can punish away a tantrum. Tantrums are unpleasant for everyone, but it is an immature expression of big feelings. Kids outgrow them as they gain emotional maturity. It is far better to teach them to identify, label, and work with their emotions IMO rather than attempting to shock them out of feeling what they feel.

To me, it sends a message of "happy is the only acceptable emotion". And honestly, that's about how DH and his siblings grew up. It wasn't emotionally healthy.

Don't get me wrong, tantrums are totally, totally annoying. But they are part of normal development. We never "give in" to the cause of the tantrum, but I don't feel it is my job to stop my kids from feeling what they feel. If it happens in public, I usually carry them outside or whatever so as not to disturb others. But I'm not a believer in trying to punish away a tantrum (or shock the daylights out of a kid w/ a glass of water over the head). Honestly, many of my kids' biggest tantrums have been the result of me pushing them too far (they needed a nap, we were out too late) or an unmet need like being over hungry and having low blood sugar, etc.
:yeahthat:
Well said! That fight or flight is not the time to wheel and deal typically, and trying to "snap them out" often sends them further in. I just want to know how long it takes for kids to outgrow them. I still remember having tantrums myself...way older than most. I will say that if you have a kid with major tantrums the books by Ross Greene are excellent (The Explosive Child, Lost at School).

ETA- Yes I have commented to people, sometimes more nicely than they deserve, sometimes not so much. ;)

[rlu]

I briefly skimmed the other responses you got, and just wanted to throw this out there.

A more gentle approach to this whole water thing is to take a cool washcloth and place it on the back of their neck. I haven't done this with a toddler, but I have done it on more than one occassion with my first two when they were babies. I did it a couple times when they were crying out of control and nothing I did seemed to work. I got a cool wash cloth, gently rubbed it on their forehead and back of their neck while using a soothing voice. It definitely calmed them down.

Maybe I'll try that on DD1 next time and see if it still works!

I did the same when DS was younger. We still give DS water to drink to help him calm down. You can't cry and drink water at the same time, not sure why, but it's that way for me and seems to work on DS as well.

Of course, DS is older now. I really did try to avoid taking DS on multiple-stop trips or when he was tired or hungry (both of us get grumpy as all get out when we're hungry) and I don't recall too many public tantrums. I do remember leaving DH at the grocery store and taking DS to the car to calm down on more than one occassion. When DS was little we did tend to go out as a unit so one of us could retreat to the car, now I remember more than one dinner had to be boxed up for me.

Codex - Flagger was years ago. I thought he was a troll.

[kijip]

I think there's a difference between punishing a tantrum vs shocking them to stop so you can then start your parenting on how to better express themselves.


Um, I like to start my parenting from the get-go and not with a potentially fear inducing or humiliating experience. It's easier to parent a child that feels safe, secure, respected and listened to. Throwing water on someone is a pretty keen sign that physical boundaries are not respected, that the person being drenched is seen as less than and that a parent need not listen to the underlying emotion. It is authoritarian and cruel. It is listed in some references I have seen as an example of child abuse. Condoning it can contribute to the tragic acceptance of more dangerous water based punishments.

[kijip]

I briefly skimmed the other responses you got, and just wanted to throw this out there.

A more gentle approach to this whole water thing is to take a cool washcloth and place it on the back of their neck. I haven't done this with a toddler, but I have done it on more than one occassion with my first two when they were babies. I did it a couple times when they were crying out of control and nothing I did seemed to work. I got a cool wash cloth, gently rubbed it on their forehead and back of their neck while using a soothing voice. It definitely calmed them down.

Maybe I'll try that on DD1 next time and see if it still works!

I think this is a soothing technique as you describe it and not a punishment.