I'm not a vegetarian, but I had trouble buying a turkey

[Clarity]

I think it was the incredible amount of them in the freezer and cooler - and just in my ONE store. I just couldn't help but think of the sheer numbers that are raised for Tgiving and Xmas alone. And not under the best conditions, I bet. This is the first year that this really bothered me. I just wondered if it bothered anyone else.

Now, I did still buy a turkey, but I paid double for the antibiotic/hormone free turkey in hopes that maybe it saw the light of day at some point in it's short life. I think I'm probably kidding myself though. Ugh.

[Nicsmom]

I am not a vegetarian either, but I have tried to have a very low meat diet for a long time until recently. I am pregnant right now and I find it hard to keep a balanced diet without meat. I know it is doable but my pregnancy cravings make it more difficult. Anyhow, I completely understand what you are saying. Yesterday I read in the NYT that 53 billion land animals are slaughtered every year for human consumption. 53 billion. :(

[lizzywednesday]

Turkeys are scary birds and, therefore, I have no problem with them being raised for food.

Seriously. They are scary in person. Especially if they are bigger than you when you first encounter a live one. (I am now terrified of all birds because of the tom-turkey on my friend's farm and another bird-related incident when I was a kid.)

I don't often think about the sheer numbers of turkeys being raised in the factory-farming system, mostly because I hate turkey meat. (Truly HATE it; my husband thinks this is funny.)

[jenfromnj]

Are there any poultry farms in your area (for next year)? We ordered our turkey from a semi-local farm, mainly to make my former vegetarian but now pregnant cousin a bit more comfortable, but the birds there definitely had a chance to be outside etc. It cost more than a regular turkey, but about as much as the organic free-range special order turkeys we found at Whole Foods.

[niccig]

I'm feeling that way too and about chicken. We watched a Bones episode and they were investigating a death at a chicken farm. DH said he wants free range eggs and chickens now. TJs have the eggs, but I'm still not finding free range chickens. I can get organic, vegetarian feed and no hormones, but still looking for a brand that says free range...I don't even trust cage free as they can still put too may animals in a small space...

[MoJo]

Are there any poultry farms in your area (for next year)? We ordered our turkey from a semi-local farm, mainly to make my former vegetarian but now pregnant cousin a bit more comfortable, but the birds there definitely had a chance to be outside etc.

:yeahthat: We did this last year, and I'm not anywhere close to that PP. You can see the birds grazing in large fields in the sunshine all year.

This year, my turkey arrived in the mail (a gift) so I didn't go to the farm OR the grocery.

[s7714]

Well, you'd probably have second thoughts about buying any meat if you actually saw bodies of cows, pigs, etc. at the grocery store instead of just pieces of them! ;) ETA: I'm not a vegetarian nor trying to persuade you to become one by saying that...just saying I think a lot of people disassociate the final product with the original animal so it's not as emotionally disturbing.

We raised a lot of birds (turkeys, geese, pheasants, and chickens) for food when I was growing up. If it's any consolation, like a PP said, turkeys are mean suckers! The sheer mass of birds being raised does bother me too, but I'll willingly fork over money for a farm raised grocery store bird any day just to avoid having to ax and pluck a turkey again.

I agree with the PPs that finding a local place were you can see the animal's living conditions is a good thing to do if you can.

[codex57]

Turkeys are scary birds and, therefore, I have no problem with them being raised for food.

Seriously. They are scary in person. Especially if they are bigger than you when you first encounter a live one. (I am now terrified of all birds because of the tom-turkey on my friend's farm and another bird-related incident when I was a kid.)

I don't often think about the sheer numbers of turkeys being raised in the factory-farming system, mostly because I hate turkey meat. (Truly HATE it; my husband thinks this is funny.)

Yeah, didn't really think about what kind of animals they were until I moved here. Then, my old coworkers and I got held hostage for a couple hours (not like we were going out tho) cuz two really aggressive wild turkeys decided to put us under siege. I had a pet chicken so I know how strong their pecks can be so no way was I going out with those things out there trying to peck us every time we moved past them.

I'm a human. I was designed to eat meat. It's "natural." I'm not going to fight nature when there's no reason for it. :tongue5: Plus, there are 6.8 Billion people in the world. Divide that by 53 Billion and then divide it again by 365 days and the amount of land animals eaten every day is minuscule (granted we do have a lot of starvation in much of the world) but that 53 Billion number is an excellent example of how you can use statistics and numbers to create a lot of hype about absolutely nothing.

I'd like my meat to have died as painlessly as possible, but I'm willing to accept some pain could be involved. I'm sure it's a lot more humane now than when we had to hunt them with bows and arrows.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I'm feeling that way too and about chicken. We watched a Bones episode and they were investigating a death at a chicken farm. DH said he wants free range eggs and chickens now. TJs have the eggs, but I'm still not finding free range chickens. I can get organic, vegetarian feed and no hormones, but still looking for a brand that says free range...I don't even trust cage free as they can still put too may animals in a small space...

I saw that. And it is worse in many cases... One of the reasons I am a vegetarian. As Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated".
I think swine flu was caused by unsanitary cramped swine conditions. Mad cow was spread from feeding sick cows to healthy ones, etc.

I had a turkey as a kid, and he was nice... My geese were far worse!

[wellyes]

I can get organic, vegetarian feed and no hormones, but still looking for a brand that says free range...I don't even trust cage free as they can still put too may animals in a small space...

From what I understand there is no standard when it comes to the term "Free Range" either. It could mean that a door is open in the building even though no chicken has access to get through the door. Or they are allowed outside 1 day a year, the other 363 in cages so small they can't turn around. Some of the terminology they use is just flat-out trickery. Look for the "Certified Humane" label instead. Standards to receive the certified humane label are strictly enforced.

For anyone interested in this topic I suggest Pete Singer's "The Way We Eat" which describes in detail what the labels mean and how farming really works. I always buy Pete & Gerry's brand eggs after reading his description of the farms there. Singer's book is quite good and refreshingly non-preachy; it is not an argument for vegetarianism/veganism like many such books are, it's more of a thought-provoking discussion that ends up going in some surprising directions.

[gatorsmom]

We have wild turkeys in our yard all the time. And they usually travel in groups so we never have just one- we always get their whole family!

I don't think they are scary, the ones here are wild so they will quickly move away when we approach them. But there are so many of them that I guess it doesn't bother me to think about eating them. And I prefer domestic to wild- the wild ones are much leaner and their meat is much more gamey.

My dad says they are very difficult to hunt and kill and he's been hunting them since he was a kid. Other hunted animals yes, but I guess I don't feel too sorry for turkeys. :D

[pb&j]

A friend just sent me this link today about a better way to raise food.
http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/11/24/joel-salatin-advocates-a-better-way-to-raise-food/
This is the farm that was featured in The Omnivore's Dilemma.

[brittone2]

I was a vegetarian for almost a decade in my younger years and it took me a while to move toward non-vegetarianism. Having PCOS with insulin resistant tendencies helped me realize that I needed to move in a different direction for my personal health.

I'm thankful that we live in an area with a big local-foods movement that continues to grow. We have many local farms with humanely raised, truly pastured products like eggs, grassfed beef, pastured pork, etc. We can buy directly from the farmers (and we do the local farm tour each year and have visited many of those same farms outside of the tour), or our local co-op grocery usually sources as much as possible from the local farmers.

We ordered 2 turkeys (I do an extra one on Wednesday just to have a ton of extra leftovers to freeze) and a pastured ham (won't be served on Thanksgiving though) from my co-op.

if we leave this area when DH wraps up his degree, the local foods scene around here will be missed greatly by my family. I love that we have many great options, and it helps to know our products have been raised in as humane and healthy of an environment as possible.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I was a vegetarian for almost a decade in my younger years and it took me a while to move toward non-vegetarianism. Having PCOS with insulin resistant tendencies helped me realize that I needed to move in a different direction for my personal health.

I'm thankful that we live in an area with a big local-foods movement that continues to grow. We have many local farms with humanely raised, truly pastured products like eggs, grassfed beef, pastured pork, etc. We can buy directly from the farmers (and we do the local farm tour each year and have visited many of those same farms outside of the tour), or our local co-op grocery usually sources as much as possible from the local farmers.

We ordered 2 turkeys (I do an extra one on Wednesday just to have a ton of extra leftovers to freeze) and a pastured ham (won't be served on Thanksgiving though) from my co-op.

if we leave this area when DH wraps up his degree, the local foods scene around here will be missed greatly by my family. I love that we have many great options, and it helps to know our products have been raised in as humane and healthy of an environment as possible.

I think that is the best way, if you eat meat!:cheerleader1:

[brittone2]

I think that is the best way, if you eat meat!:cheerleader1:

Well, having lived in other areas with fewer options, I know not everyone has the choices available that we have in our area. The local foods thing was pretty decent when we moved here about 5 years ago, but in the past 2-3 years it seems to have *really* grown. I hope that as more consumers demand these types of products in other areas of the country, more people will have the options we have here.

In our area, they have programs set up where existing sustainable farms mentor new farmers in this area, and in my county there is a newish facility where aspiring sustainable farmers can lease space (like an acre or a few acres at a time) to learn and perfect their techniques under the mentorship of existing successful (sustainable) farmers. That way they can learn how to be sustainable, etc. without jumping in and taking the big financial risk with buying an entire farm right away. It has really helped to get more sustainable farms in place in this area. The whole environment here really influences the availability of good local foods :thumbsup: Demand from consumers, support from other farms and the cooperative extension offices that teach the methods, etc.