Your thoughts on this high school scenario

[SnuggleBuggles]

My niece and nephew go to a very large public high school and I have heard some interesting things about the way they do things there. I'm curious if this was your experience, what the pros/ cons are and just general thoughts. Would you like this for your dc?

There is no penalty for skipping class unless you skip more than 7 per term (same class, not 7 total). If you skip more than 7 then your grade starts to go down. An A would become an A-. It can ever get lower than a C through this system.

So, there is no detention or any other punishment if you skip 6 classes. No detention ever for skipping.

I have my opinion about this but would like to hear what others think of this.

Beth

[Elilly]

Do I disagree with it? Yes! But, for me, what matters most is the rules for our house, not school. We have family rules and they typically trump everything else :) I would hope that, as a parent, that I could call at any time and obtain attendance records for my children.

[Moneypenny]

I would have to know more about it to really form an opinion, such as if you skip for the day can you still turn in homework that was due that day or not? If you skip on the day of a quiz or test, do you have the option to make it up?

I would suspect that skipping that often would naturally result in a somewhat lower grade because material and discussion is missed. Therefore, not having a penalty for skipping until it becomes excessive would be fine with me. I think it would give the students a chance to experience the natural consequences of not showing up for class, which would prepare them well for college where there typically isn't a penalty for skipping.

[brittone2]

I think it would give the students a chance to experience the natural consequences of not showing up for class, which would prepare them well for college where there typically isn't a penalty for skipping.

:yeahthat:

Not agreeing or disagreeing w/ the policy, but I'm of the opinion that high school often micro-manages kids' behavior (needing a hall pass to use the restroom, etc. as a sr. in high school) and then we turn them loose 3 months later in college where there are abundant freedoms and responsibilities that they may not be adequately prepared for (due to limited experience w/ the natural consequences of skipping class, etc.)

I'm not sure if a 9th/10th grader would be equipped to handle such a policy about skipping classes, but I think it is interesting for 11th/12th graders.

[JBaxter]

I dont have an issue with it. It kind of prepares them for college if you ask me. I have 2 in highschool right now. They have semesters so they only have 4 classes to deal with at a time. My senior has 2 highschool classes and 1 mod he is an aide in the office. He takes a college speaking class at the highschool 3 days a week. He tells me if he is skipping school. As long as his grades stay up and hes not in trouble I dont have a problem.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I would have to know more about it to really form an opinion, such as if you skip for the day can you still turn in homework that was due that day or not? If you skip on the day of a quiz or test, do you have the option to make it up?

I would suspect that skipping that often would naturally result in a somewhat lower grade because material and discussion is missed. Therefore, not having a penalty for skipping until it becomes excessive would be fine with me. I think it would give the students a chance to experience the natural consequences of not showing up for class, which would prepare them well for college where there typically isn't a penalty for skipping.


I do know if you are not there then you can not turn in papers or homework- you get a 0. Unless you make other arrangements to get it there (like a friend brings it in).

My SIL has mixed feelings but that natural consequence reasoning was what she said too.

Beth

[AnnieW625]

I never skipped a class ever, never even thought to try. I was too much of a good girl and wanted to keep my parents happy. I got 15 min. detention once in jr. high (9th grade) for a verbal argument in art class. I went to a smallish high school by current standards (our local high schools have 4500 or so students!) with about 1500 kids and we had monitors in the courtyards and stuff. Kids could have cars on campus so often they'd skip the classes right before lunch or right after lunch. Since I never skipped I never really knew the exact consequences for skipping and how many times it took to either get detention or ISR (in school retention, which was school in the library for one day) or worse case Saturday School. I know that if the above policy was at my childrens' high school I would not want them doing it and there would still be consequences for skipping at home even if not at school.

[alexsmommy]

Mmm, interesting thread. I do think there is some value in increasing freedom (personal responsibility) as they move through the grades. College is a complete shock to some kids and they have no idea how to manage with no rules.
Now I say that with a high schooler who isn't managing WITH rules so it would be very interesting to see what she would do if there were less restrictions on her. Her school does have some increasing priveleges with grade progression but it's not anywhere near that loose. It's things like open campus for lunch, early dismissal if you don't have the last period etc.

[zag95]

This is a very interesting thread! As a high school teacher, skipping is a real problem, especially because it leads to students failing classes- they don't make effort to make up information. Frequently the consequences of punishment (dropped grades, detention, etc) isn't enough for some kids.

When I look at this, I ask myself- if I were an employer, would I allow my employee to miss 7 days of work, with no consequence? I always work this angle with my students- your job is school. School (getting up each morning, whether you want to or not) coming and doing something, in some ways, is like a training ground for employment. Some may not agree- but as a HS student, you may have to jump thru hoops for graduation; you may have to put up with colleagues in classes that you don't like; or teachers (bosses) that ask for things that you don't agree with. These experiences are similar to some that those of us in the working world experience.

[HIU8]

I never skipped any classes (except on accepted senior skip day). This sounds somewhat like the honors system to me. Sort of like teaching them to take some responsibility for their actions (don't know if all high schoolers are equip to function this way though).

[elizabethkott]

When I look at this, I ask myself- if I were an employer, would I allow my employee to miss 7 days of work, with no consequence? I always work this angle with my students- your job is school. School (getting up each morning, whether you want to or not) coming and doing something, in some ways, is like a training ground for employment. Some may not agree- but as a HS student, you may have to jump thru hoops for graduation; you may have to put up with colleagues in classes that you don't like; or teachers (bosses) that ask for things that you don't agree with. These experiences are similar to some that those of us in the working world experience.

:yeahthat:

I teach hs also, and in my school, we have a very strict lateness and cutting policy. For cutting, you get a detention with a phone call home to inform your parental unit that you have been assigned detention. If you don't go to the detention, you get in school suspension (which I take issue with as a concept as a whole). Our principal frequently tries to impress on our students that behaviors are learned - if you learn to be late or not show up in high school, it will trickle over into your adult life. We've actually started handing out "pink slips" for students with a total of 7 latenesses (*any* 7, not just to the same class). Students need to understand that they make choices, and those choices will have consequences. If I showed up late to my job 7 times, I would at *least* be spoken to. If I simply didn't show up with no reason, no excuse, no nothing, you bet your sweet bippy there would be repercussions. The sooner these lessons begin to be learned, the greater chance a student has for success later in life.
I do agree that there is a discrepency between what the "standards" are in a hs and what they are when you get to college - but that's also part of the transition from childhood to adulthood. It's part of the learning process. I just don't think that a hs student (at least the majority of mine) are capable of dealing with that kind of freedom. As it is, they are always trying to angle to "get something" to feel like they are getting away with breaking a rule, getting one over on the teacher, administration, etc. The maturity level just isn't there for the vast majority of the students I see.

[wellyes]

When I look at this, I ask myself- if I were an employer, would I allow my employee to miss 7 days of work, with no consequence?

Well, as employees we do get some vacation days to take at our discretion......

Having said that, SIX skips allowed for each & every class? That's crazy. Truly nuts to me. The purpose of consequences for skipping class (detention, for example) is to prevent academic disaster - which the student won't feel until then end of term when it is too late to do anything about it.

To me it seems like too much freedom to fail.... particularly in the microcosm of a high school where students feel much more pressure to transgress. College is a different world. Students are much more free to make their own destiny, and it's not necessarily cool to not care about class. College students just don't experience the same peer pressure that HS students do. I'd really hate to see a nice teenager go downhill academically by being given too much freedom, that kind of scenario can just get worse and worse if not handled well.

[s7714]

Sounds exactly like the policy at the college I went to. I don't have any problems with the policy in theory, but I've got a while to go before my DDs are in high school! I agree with PPs that giving high schoolers a little more freedom might be a good thing so it's not so overwhelming when they make the jump to college.

[kijip]

This is actually far more strict than what I went to high school with- ours was full on no disciplinary consequences but get the work done and live with it if you fall behind from making bad decisions. If you missed classes, you felt it on keeping up with the material for sure. The classes were scheduled like college classes so a student might be taking a full load but have 1 class 1 day a week and 4 classes another day a week. Usually I had 5-7 classes a term, with 2-4 in a day, M-Th with community involvement, volunteerism and/or internships on Fridays. It was not perfect and it had it's downsides but college was very, very easy for me. I learned good student skills for sure. The general pattern was that people would often mess up for a quarter or 2 when they first started but get themselves back on track. My friends and I tended to do well above average when we transitioned to college, with much less of the freshman crap that a lot of students do when away from home for the first time. The time teachers would have been spending on attendance and enforcing certain rules was spent on deep enrichment of things like writing, problem solving and research skills.

I went to college just fine and am a more than reliable and responsible employee. I say treat people like they are responsible and you get responsibility more often than not. High school would be too low expectations for me if it was about teaching people not much more than being in the same place at the same time, punching the clock type attendance.

Different kids need different structures, too. Some kids do well in the sort of system I described, some just do not and need more structure. I don't think one-size-fits-all. There are definitely kids I knew that were rebellious and lazy in a traditional system that when given the expectations and responsibility of my high school more than rose to the occasion. The school I went to tended towards very bright, self motivated students who felt a lot of responsibility to the world around them. In the three and a half years I was there, I did everything from run a public radio show with other kids to interning in a public housing project's health clinic to sitting on a city review boards for government grants. At different times, I interviewed community leaders, met with elected officials, lobbied the school board and the state legislature, ran clothing and food drives and generally did a lot of learning by doing in addition to very high standards for academics...anything that was equivalent to below a B in a regular school was a no credit at my school. It takes 20 credits to finish high school here and I finished with 30. I think that a lot of the good things were only made possible by expecting more from kids than the standard high school. To be fair, a lot of kids did not do well at our school and ended up transferring out because they did not like it or could not deal with the freedom and the expectations.

[shawnandangel]

Wow! I want to go to the college that does not care about attendance! At my college, you cannot miss more than 4 days of class before a letter grade is dropped. It does not matter what the reason is for your absence. It can be a death in the family, illness, or your car broke down. They are all counted as an absence.

Also, for every 4th time you are late it is counted as 1 absence. This is the second college I have attended, and both have had strict attendance policies. Both were private colleges with small class sizes.

Anyways, I think that 7 is a very high number. I think 3 or 4 would be more appropriate.
I agree with giving high schoolers more freedom, but I do not agree with the high number they have choosen.