Need a sounding board re: incident at DDs school today

[s7714]

I'm not too sure how I feel about something that happened at my DDs school today, so I wanted to put a feeler out for other people's reactions!

When I arrived at DDs school today to volunteer in the classroom, I stopped by the bathroom first and saw a couple kids from DD's class heading to the kid's bathroom as well. When I came out and walked around the corner to the classroom door, the two kids plus one other were standing at the classroom door because it was locked. (I know that's standard issue at some schools, but not at ours.) DDs school is an open air campus, so we were standing outside where it was definitely chilly. The kids were knocking repeatedly on the door while we waited, but no one opened it. We were waiting for well over a minute. One little girl was quite chilled as she didn't have her jacket with her so I wrapped her up in my sweatshirt and finally told them to quietly follow me through the prep/copy room to the back door of the classroom which is generally always unlocked.

As we walk into the classroom, the teacher was just turning around from opening the other door. She calls the one girl over and asks her if she knew why she (the teacher) hadn't opened the door when they knocked. Turns out that the girl had deliberately pulled the door's lock guard off so that the door locked behind her when they left to use the bathroom. The teacher said she watched her do it. Because of that the teacher chose to just let her and the other two kids be stuck outside for a couple minutes.

Now I have personally seen this girl do this to the door once before, so I know she likes doing it for some reason, but I'm having a real hard time with the fact the teacher chose to leave all three kids locked outside the door for a couple minutes vs. bringing them inside and reprimanding the girl differently. I mean it's chilly outside--chilly for our area mind you, I'm not talking about freezing temps or anything, LOL)--and these kids (two of which were not at fault) had no jackets on. I would have been really, really irritated if it would have been my DD, who just got over pneumonia, locked outside.

So what do you all think? I'm annoyed, concerned, etc., but am at a loss at to how or what I'd even say to the teacher about something like this! Would you say anything? Thanks if you made it this far!

[rosiegirl1]

I actually think it was a clever idea. If this child has done it before on purpose (likely to lengthen the amount of time away from class, or to get additional attention from the teacher) it seems like having to wait outside was a pretty natural consequence. Spending a few minutes in non-freezing temps won't really hurt anyone. Really. It's a myth that illness is caused by cold weather: the cause is actually the amount of time we all spend in tight quarters when the weather's bad...Likely, that was a more effective discipline/teaching technique than letting the girl in and then giving her a lecture.

If you really feel the need to say something, make it directly related to your DC. "When I was volunteering the other day, I noticed that some kids had to wait outside after returning from the restroom. Since DD just got over pneumonia, I'd appreciate it if she didn't have to wait to come in the classroom. The cold air seems to exacerbate her breathing difficulties" or something to that effect.

When I was teaching, we did have a locked door policy. I know there were times when I knocked on another classroom's door only to have to wait quite a while - either because the classroom noise drowned out my knock, or because the teacher was in the middle of something and none of the kids were "with it" enough to open the door.

JMHO....

[randomkid]

Mmmm, yeah...not appropriate if you ask me. That isn't teaching her anything, it's just spiteful on the teacher's part. It's especially wrong because she made 2 other children wait outside when they had nothing to do with the transgression.

As far as talking to the teacher about it - that's a hard one to call. Since it wasn't your child, it's hard to know what to say to her. I have seen DD's teacher get in some of the boys' faces and yell (well, raise her voice) at them. I didn't say anything because they weren't my kids, but if I saw her to that to DD, you better know I'd be all over it. This teacher also gets quite uptight if the kids are late in the am. She wants them there AT 9:00 and gets irritated if anyone is late. I used this as my opportunity to address her "issues". I spoke to the Director on more than one occasion and mentioned how DD's teacher gets so uptight about minor things. I'm sure the Director talked to her because I have seen a definite change recently. Having said that, I would likely be inclined to speak to her about it. I would probably mention that you saw what happened and understand her frustration with this little girl, but that you would be quite upset if YOUR child happened to be with the little girl and was locked out in the cold.

[ha98ed14]

My reaction would have been the same as yours. I would have been pissed if the teacher knew the girl locked the door on her way out and she didn't say anything until AFTER the girl and her innocent classmates were outside for a while. I would have wanted the little perp to have gotten a full on reprimand because she endangered other people's children. Sorry, but that is how I see it. If some "clever" little girl locked my DD out of her classroom, I would have wanted her to have a reprimand firm enough so that she would remember. So yes. I would have been pissed the girl did it to begin with, pissed that the teacher let it slide when she saw it, pissed my kid was locked out of her classroom, even if it was not cold outside, and pissed that the teacher was not firm in her reprimand. So I guess Pissed sums up my reaction. I would say something. When in doubt, say something because you know that if something similar ever happens again and something bad happens because if it, you will kick yourself again and again and again or not saying something. Especially if the bad thing happens to your child. Be the squeaky wheel: say something.

ETA: I would not talk directly to the teacher. I would talk to the director about what you saw, and ask the director to deal with it.

[sariana]

Why is more than one child allowed to be out of the room at the same time? That seems like a bad idea.

I think I would be upset at this, especially because it involved other students (which would not have been the case if only one child had been allowed out at a time).

I think the girls should have walked to the office and told someone there that their teacher had locked them out of the room.

[s7714]

Why is more than one child allowed to be out of the room at the same time? That seems like a bad idea.

Whenever they leave the classroom without an adult, they are required to go in pairs+ for safety. You know, the good old buddy system.

[kransden]

Lots of schools have a "locked classroom" policy here. Especially if it is an out building instead of in a main building.

Kids usually go to the bathroom with a least 1 buddy until they are older. That is a safety/tattle-tale function.

[s7714]

I know there were times when I knocked on another classroom's door only to have to wait quite a while - either because the classroom noise drowned out my knock, or because the teacher was in the middle of something and none of the kids were "with it" enough to open the door.

That's exactly what I thought was going on as we all know how noisy it gets in classrooms at times. That's why I was kind of surprised by what happened when we entered the classroom.

[egoldber]

Hmm. I guess in the grand scheme of things it doesn't bother me. I can see this being very effective because not only did the girl have to wait but she was embarrassed because her friend had to wait too. If it had been really cold or raining, I don't think it would be appropriate, but a couple minutes outside in cool, but not cold weather, is not a big thing.

[BarbieSmith]

I am only "okay" with this. I hope there is no retribution in it (on the teacher's part) and just teaching a lesson. I feel sorry for the other kids, but all in all kids are SO resilient that a little chill will not bother them. I would be okay (though not thrilled) if my child was one of the innocent ones caught in the middle - it is just not a huge deal, IMO, and I can understand the reasoning behind it.

[Melaine]

I see that as a totally legitimate consequence to the girl locking the door. She had to wait a couple minutes before coming in. The other two did too, but that wasn't such a bad lesson for everyone to learn. The teacher was probably in the middle of a task and felt it inappropriate to stop in the middle of teaching/helping other kids to take care of a student's misbehavior.
On the other hand, not knowing the ins and outs of what does go on in the classroom, I would have been a little concerned to see it happen to. I definitely don't think this incident alone would warrant concern though, IMO.

[TwinFoxes]

It's not the way I would have handled it with my own DCs, and it does kind of bother me on first read. But when I think more about it, it's not so bad. If they were really out in the cold/snow that's one thing, but I'm sure it was in the 50s. A teacher only has so much time, and she's probably talked to the little girl before about locking the door. I bet this technique is more effective, and the little girl will probably not do it again.

I also think the teacher is unlikely to use this in another situation. If she starts locking kids out because they won't stop talking in class or something, that's different. This to me is more of a "consequences of your actions" kind of thing.

And honestly, for the kids that got locked out, it probably gave them the kiddie equivalent of "cocktail party chatter" for the day. "Oh my gosh, we didn't know what was going on, I was like knock again, and we knocked, and no one came, and then we got to go in the BACK DOOR!" :)

[Snow mom]

I think locking the other students out was a clear way to use peer pressure to stop the behavior. Sometimes being reprimanded by a teacher doesn't change behavior, but having two of your friends be angry because you locked them out and they had to stand in the cold might have some effect.

[belovedgandp]

I see that as a totally legitimate consequence to the girl locking the door. She had to wait a couple minutes before coming in. The other two did too, but that wasn't such a bad lesson for everyone to learn. The teacher was probably in the middle of a task and felt it inappropriate to stop in the middle of teaching/helping other kids to take care of a student's misbehavior.
On the other hand, not knowing the ins and outs of what does go on in the classroom, I would have been a little concerned to see it happen to. I definitely don't think this incident alone would warrant concern though, IMO.

I agree. If this is an isolated thing and not part of a pattern of other issues, no big deal to me. It's a direct consequence to an action - one that can and did impact others in the class besides just the one girl.

[hillview]

Not how I'd have done things. Not how DS's school would do things. That said I don't think it is abusive etc. If everything else in the class seems ok I wouldn't worry about it.
/hillary

[Reyadawnbringer]

I think locking the other students out was a clear way to use peer pressure to stop the behavior. Sometimes being reprimanded by a teacher doesn't change behavior, but having two of your friends be angry because you locked them out and they had to stand in the cold might have some effect.

:yeahthat: exactly. A little natural consequence never hurt anyone either.

[mamicka]

I see that as a totally legitimate consequence to the girl locking the door. She had to wait a couple minutes before coming in. The other two did too, but that wasn't such a bad lesson for everyone to learn. The teacher was probably in the middle of a task and felt it inappropriate to stop in the middle of teaching/helping other kids to take care of a student's misbehavior.
On the other hand, not knowing the ins and outs of what does go on in the classroom, I would have been a little concerned to see it happen to. I definitely don't think this incident alone would warrant concern though, IMO.

:yeahthat: This one doesn't concern me at all. Assuming that nothing else seems amiss in the class.

[Moneypenny]

I think it's an appropriate response by the teacher and wouldn't be bothered by it all.

[MamaMolly]

I think locking the other students out was a clear way to use peer pressure to stop the behavior. Sometimes being reprimanded by a teacher doesn't change behavior, but having two of your friends be angry because you locked them out and they had to stand in the cold might have some effect.

This was my first thought, along with natural consequences. I don't really have a problem with it especially since the child has done it before (assuming here that the teacher had a word with the child on the precious occasions). You take the lock guard off the door, you get locked out. You lock out your friends, your friends don't like it. FWIW Some kids simply don't respond to a talking to. They have to experience it to 'get' it.

[kristenk]

This was my first thought, along with natural consequences. I don't really have a problem with it especially since the child has done it before (assuming here that the teacher had a word with the child on the precious occasions). You take the lock guard off the door, you get locked out. You lock out your friends, your friends don't like it. FWIW Some kids simply don't respond to a talking to. They have to experience it to 'get' it.

:yeahthat: to Snow mom and MamaMolly.

[srhs]

If it was Minnesota and no jacket, it would bother me. "Cool not cold" I think is reasonable.

[sste]

I am not sure the one-time incident would bother me that much but it would have me on the look-out to see if this teacher is able to discipline in an effective, appropriate way in general.

My observation as a relatively newbie parent is that it is easy to focus on X Incident and address X Incident but that often leads to the teacher feeling harassed and micro-managed for a one-off questionable decision AND is not effective in terms of addressing problematic behavior patterns.

Write this down with a date in a little notebook for yourself and see if other issues pop up with these teacher that suggest a "pattern and practice." Then address that. JMO!

[AnnieW625]

Why is more than one child allowed to be out of the room at the same time? That seems like a bad idea.

That was the first alarm with me. I know that it's probably pretty dicey if the teacher follows the child to the bathroom, but honestly if the child isn't following rules then she needs an attendant to go to the bathroom with her. I would want my child to know it's okay to ask for help from a teacher if needed for the bathroom. A buddy rule would seem like a good idea!

Overall I am not really sure what to think of the child being locked out of the classroom. The child probably deserved some punishment, but it could make the school look really bad if the child rats out the teacher to her parents and her parents are sue happy people or are really sensitive to conflict and will make a stink about anything, and everything. You just never know.

ETA: edited after reading Beth's response.

[egoldber]

The child wasn't locked in a bathroom. She was locked out of the classroom. The classroom is a self-contained outdoor unit and the children probably have to go into a main building to use the restroom.

As kransden mentioned above, many schools use a "buddy system" where if a child needs to use a restroom outside the classroom, they have to take a buddy.