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View Full Version : Any auto geeks want to chime in? Hypothetical Q only



maestramommy
12-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Yesterday was the craziest driving experience of my life. I had a doctor's appt, at 10:45, and decided for some reason that it'd be a good idea to hit Target beforehand. With all three kids. The fact that I could do this because my 9am rehearsal was canceled due to snow failed to register. I really needed those milk bags and goldfish:p

It was snowing hard the ENTIRE.TIME. I was on the road, getting in and out of the Target, I was 15 minutes late for my appt and listed as a no show, but they were super nice and I got to see the doc anyway. Neither of the parking lots were plowed yet, and I got lucky enough to follow a row of snowplows all the way home. I was driving Dh's Pathfinder with the 4WD engaged the entire time. Good thing too. Getting through the small drifts in the parking lot would've been a joke with the Accord. I think I would've had to dig my way out at the doctor's office. On the way home I thought, "Screw the minivan! I want another 4WD something!" :p

So, we aren't in the market for replacing either vehicle yet (way too new). But I was just wondering if there is such thing as a crossover SUV with a 3rd row, stick, 4WD (not AWD), Japanese manufactured? Dh's Pathfinder is pretty ideal, but our next vehicle will definitely have a 3rd row. We were thinking minivan all the way, with traction and stability control. But can that compete with 4WD?

Please no philosophical arguments on American vs. Japanese manufacturers. :loveeyes: I've had enough of American cars to last me a lifetime, and Dh just won't consider it.

AnnieW625
12-10-2009, 05:58 PM
Good question! We love our Pilot and the Pilot comes with 4WD (ours is 2WD; we don't go to the snow enough to really warrant the 4WD) unfortunately it only comes in an automatic, but it's a really good car. Also FWIW we have sat in the new 2009/2010 Pilot and much prefer the old styling of our Pilot (made until 2008) than the new one. DH thinks that the new one has too many blind spots, and for me the new Pilot has one of those odd gear shifters that's not quite on the dash, but higher than the console (it's fugly if you ask me). I like the traditional automatic shifter on the steering column. We have a third row in our Pilot but haven't used it.

The Subaru Tribeca I believe is virtually the same size as the Pilot, but it also only has an automatic. You might have to go down to the Outback (which outside looks much bigger than the prior models) to get a manual transmission.

ETA: My mom has an 05 Highlander with 4WD and she has been very happy with it. A mini van with a stick would rock! DH might even consider one then (although still unlikely!)

maestramommy
12-10-2009, 06:04 PM
Well transmission isn't a deal breaker. I mean, we were thinking minivans, which I assume don't come with manual transmission.

bubbaray
12-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Depending on where you live, Sienna with AWD might be a good option. There likely isn't much mileage difference between a 4WD vehicle and an AWD vehicle, KWIM?

I have heard that the Ody is just fine in the snow with snow tires. It SUCKS in the snow with all seasons, which is what I have. DH has a 4WD truck (formerly had a Pathfinder, which rocked in the snow), so usually my van sleeps in the garage when it snows and we just use DH's vehicle.

BillK
12-10-2009, 07:04 PM
I was just looking at a 2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid and was really impressed with it. Have you checked out a Highlander or 4-Runner by chance?

If you don't need the SUV height/size - the Toyota Venza is freaking sweet btw. My sister just got a new Subaru Outback (the new style) and it's beautiful too.

maestramommy
12-10-2009, 10:25 PM
Depending on where you live, Sienna with AWD might be a good option. There likely isn't much mileage difference between a 4WD vehicle and an AWD vehicle, KWIM?

I have heard that the Ody is just fine in the snow with snow tires. It SUCKS in the snow with all seasons, which is what I have. DH has a 4WD truck (formerly had a Pathfinder, which rocked in the snow), so usually my van sleeps in the garage when it snows and we just use DH's vehicle.

Well, we don't live in Canada:p, but we do get quite a bit of snow. All I know is that the mileage for the Sienna AWD is frightening. I don't want a vehicle with mileage comparable to or worse than a Hummer. I did ask Dh about mileage in AWD vs. 4WD and his feeling was that AWD is lower because it has an extra differential. But he could be wrong. We don't know about current models. Our Pathfinder is an '01. 6 cylinder stick, and it gets 19 mpg in the city.

As I said, barring any catastrophic incidents, we won't be getting another vehicle any time soon, but it's nice to know there are more options than we originally thought. BTW, Dh is getting snow tires for my Accord. Last winter I was driving all season radials, and though it was doable, it wasn't fun.

Penny's Pappa
12-11-2009, 02:51 AM
This article might be of interest to you. Especially page 2 where it lists all the 4WD and AWD models for the '09 model year:

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/your-ride-4wd-vs-awd-cga.htm

On a personal note, our '07 Outback gets 27/22 mpg (don't know what the newer ones would get). We just got it a few months ago, so we haven't driven it in the snow yet, but from all the testimonials I've heard I have a feeling this winter's going to be fun!

egoldber
12-11-2009, 08:07 AM
BTW, Dh is getting snow tires for my Accord. Last winter I was driving all season radials, and though it was doable, it wasn't fun.

I think you will find that snow tires make a HUGE difference. We had snow tires for my van and it was unbelievable what a difference it made. We put them on in December and took them off at the end of March.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=120

maestramommy
12-11-2009, 08:11 AM
This article might be of interest to you. Especially page 2 where it lists all the 4WD and AWD models for the '09 model year:

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/your-ride-4wd-vs-awd-cga.htm

On a personal note, our '07 Outback gets 27/22 mpg (don't know what the newer ones would get). We just got it a few months ago, so we haven't driven it in the snow yet, but from all the testimonials I've heard I have a feeling this winter's going to be fun!

I've noticed the Outback gets rec'd a lot for this region. Does it have a third row? I thought it was a regular station wagon. Which would be awesome! But we really want a 3rd row.

Thanks for the link! Based on the article, what I'm looking for is definitely part-time 4WD of the basic type. I *think* that's why I thought AWD would be thirstier. The list of cars is a little confusing though. Cars like the Highlander and Pilot are listed as midsize SUVs, even though they have a 3rd row. I'll have to look at it more carefully when I have a moment. I'm also thinking about Beth's comment about the snowtires. It's nice to have the luxury of living with them for one winter to see what it'll be like.

o_mom
12-11-2009, 08:16 AM
I was just looking at a 2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid and was really impressed with it. Have you checked out a Highlander or 4-Runner by chance?

If you don't need the SUV height/size - the Toyota Venza is freaking sweet btw. My sister just got a new Subaru Outback (the new style) and it's beautiful too.

Highlander isn't really any more useful than a sedan for three kids, IMO. Three across the second row doesn't gain you anything over a sedan. Third row up means you can't put more than about a bag of groceries in the cargo area and acess to the third row is not easy. Went through every possible seating arrangement for three with my neighbor's Highlander and my suggestion was to trade it in for a Sienna. :p

maestramommy
12-11-2009, 08:30 AM
Highlander isn't really any more useful than a sedan for three kids, IMO. Three across the second row doesn't gain you anything over a sedan. Third row up means you can't put more than about a bag of groceries in the cargo area and acess to the third row is not easy. Went through every possible seating arrangement for three with my neighbor's Highlander and my suggestion was to trade it in for a Sienna. :p

That's okay. Most of the time we would only be using the 2nd row. The 3rd row is really for when people come to visit. At the moment it's a huge pain. Even when only MIL visits we have to drive 2 cars for the whole family to go anywhere. Whenever my parents visit, one always has to stay home if I want to go somewhere (we don't have our parents drive when they visit). So having the 3rd row would be super handy, but not something we'd have to live with every day. I get your point though. That's one reason Dh has always been against getting a large SUV over a minivan. It may very well be that we find snow tires along with traction control is enough. It's not like we're going to go offroading every weekend:p

ETA: I really appreciate the feedback I'm getting here everybody! You're giving me plenty to think about! And it's all fun, since we're not pressed to make a decision.

mikeys_mom
12-11-2009, 09:28 AM
Agreeing with Beth about the winter tires. I drive a Sienna with winter tires and I can pretty much plow through any snowstorm that hits us up here. My sister has an Ody with winter tires, and she also has no problems driving in the snow. Both cars were slipping and sliding all over the place before we purchased the winter tires.

bubbaray
12-11-2009, 11:32 AM
Agreeing with Beth about the winter tires. I drive a Sienna with winter tires and I can pretty much plow through any snowstorm that hits us up here. My sister has an Ody with winter tires, and she also has no problems driving in the snow. Both cars were slipping and sliding all over the place before we purchased the winter tires.


Total hijack, but could you ask your sis what brand of winter tires she has for her Ody? TIA!

Penny's Pappa
12-11-2009, 12:15 PM
I've noticed the Outback gets rec'd a lot for this region. Does it have a third row? I thought it was a regular station wagon. Which would be awesome! But we really want a 3rd row.

Thanks for the link! Based on the article, what I'm looking for is definitely part-time 4WD of the basic type. I *think* that's why I thought AWD would be thirstier. The list of cars is a little confusing though. Cars like the Highlander and Pilot are listed as midsize SUVs, even though they have a 3rd row. I'll have to look at it more carefully when I have a moment. I'm also thinking about Beth's comment about the snowtires. It's nice to have the luxury of living with them for one winter to see what it'll be like.

You're welcome!

No, the Outback does not have a 3rd row. It's just a regular wagon. I only mentioned our Outback because Subies are widely considered the "Gold Standard" when it comes to AWD vehicles. Their Forester or Tribeca models may be more appropriate for your needs. Also, I had wanted to point out that even with AWD, we get decent gas mileage.

For rough comparison:

2010 Nissan Pathfinder (4WD 4.0L V6) -- 14 city/20 highway
2010 Honda Pilot (4WD 3.5L V6) -- 16 city/22 highway
2010 Toyota Highlander (4WD 3.5L V6) -- 17 city/23 highway
2010 Subaru Tribeca (AWD 3.5L H6) -- 16 city/21 highway

YMMV :ROTFLMAO:

maestramommy
12-11-2009, 03:03 PM
You're welcome!

No, the Outback does not have a 3rd row. It's just a regular wagon. I only mentioned our Outback because Subies are widely considered the "Gold Standard" when it comes to AWD vehicles. Their Forester or Tribeca models may be more appropriate for your needs. Also, I had wanted to point out that even with AWD, we get decent gas mileage.

For rough comparison:

2010 Nissan Pathfinder (4WD 4.0L V6) -- 14 city/20 highway
2010 Honda Pilot (4WD 3.5L V6) -- 16 city/22 highway
2010 Toyota Highlander (4WD 3.5L V6) -- 17 city/23 highway
2010 Subaru Tribeca (AWD 3.5L H6) -- 16 city/21 highway

YMMV :ROTFLMAO:

Yeeeikes! I'm just not used to seeing these numbers! Anyone with an Ody or Sienna (non AWD) want to chime in with their mileage?

BTW, I'm assuming that the newer Pathfinders are the Armada, correct? That thing is a TANK!

Penny's Pappa
12-11-2009, 03:31 PM
No, I think the Armada and the Pathfinder are separate models. They're listed separately on Nissan's website.

egoldber
12-11-2009, 03:35 PM
I think thoat is pretty typical gas mileage for minivans as well. I know the AWD Sienna gets even worse than that.

hillview
12-11-2009, 08:20 PM
I live just outside Boston. We have a Sienna with snow tires and it works great. We do NOT have any sort of driveway with major incline etc. Handles well in unplowed roads etc.
/hillary

codex57
12-11-2009, 09:18 PM
US has no 3rd row SUVs with AWD/4WD and stick.

And you want AWD and not 4WD in all likelihood.

And the Pathfinder and Armada are totally separate. Armada is huge and based off the Titan full sized truck. Pathfinder is based off the smaller Frontier pickup. If you have a 3rd row Pathfinder (friend has one), there's basically only room for a manila folder in the trunk if the 3rd row is up.

MontrealMum
12-11-2009, 09:18 PM
Honestly, I'd wait and see what a difference you notice with your snow tires this year first before you make the jump to an AWD/4WD. You may be quite pleasantly surprised.

We have a Toyota with snow tires, and an Outback with snow tires and AWD. Snow tires are now required by law for winter driving in Quebec. The Outback is going into its 2nd winter with us, previously we had a Jetta w/snow tires as well, no special AWD/4WD.

I'm the one that drives the Toyota, and have driven it here in Montreal for 12 winters with snow tires alone. I've never gotten stuck while actually driving, and Montreal is very hilly. It's built on the side of a mountain. I've also never slid off the road in bad weather and we drive a fair distance each weekend into the mountains to ski. I have had to dig it out at times since I do park on the street, but really, that's not a frequent occurrence, and I only recall one time in those 12 years of actually having to ditch the car for the bus until DH could come lend his muscle to the digging ;) That was a blizzard that nearly closed the city down. I have no trouble driving on unplowed roads or country roads either.

The times that I've had the Subie rather than my own car the big difference I notice is that I NEVER have to dig - even a little bit, and can take corners at somewhat reckless speeds....but really, the point of having AWD is not so you can drive recklessly.

I drove on Blizzaks for years, and now I have Nokians (passed down from DH's Jetta since they still had some life in them and the Subie takes a larger size).

mikeys_mom
12-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Total hijack, but could you ask your sis what brand of winter tires she has for her Ody? TIA!


I asked and she's not sure but thinks they are Goodyear Nordic.

From my experience with winter tires on various cars, I have not really noticed a difference between brands. I generally buy the most basic winter tires I can find at the best price. Of course I am also not that particular about how the drive feels as long as I am not slipping and can get through reasonably sized snowbanks.

bubbaray
12-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Thanks -- the Ody's have a weird sized stock rim. DH says I can put any old 16" rim on but the various shops say no, even if I buy steel winter rims, must buy fricken fracken "special" size, with winter tires at $200 per (plus $80 each rim).

maestramommy
12-12-2009, 10:25 PM
Thanks -- the Ody's have a weird sized stock rim. DH says I can put any old 16" rim on but the various shops say no, even if I buy steel winter rims, must buy fricken fracken "special" size, with winter tires at $200 per (plus $80 each rim).

I was pretty shocked by how much my Accord's wheels are too, if we buy the same ones for our snow tires. There's goes Dh's Christmas bonus!