people without kids can be mean on the plane!

[foodiezen]

It just totally pisses me off that people without kids can be so mean! I recently traveled by plane with my 14 month old. He was an angel! He didn't cry, minded his own business, got fussy at times for brief moments, sat in his car seat and played with his toys! I was so proud of him! He didn't even cry with the change in pressure. On the flight home, he was kicking the seat in front of him because that's were his legs were due to how forward the car seat was on the plane. The lady in front turned around and made some unnecessary mean comments. She repeated it over and over through out the flight. I can't recall what it was now but I'm still fuming about this one month later! At the end of the flight, I made sure she heard me tell him a million times what a good boy he was! It seriously pissed me off... the sad part was...I think I may have been like that before kids too (not that rude but it would have annoyed me!) Thanks for listening to me. --Katherine

[jenandahalf]

My friend got her seats unexpectedly upgraded to first this weekend and they had someone making comments about them bringing a baby into first class. Before she had even started causing any bother which she didn't anyway.

[DrSally]

Yes, People on planes can be really mean about babies. DS started playing with a musical telephone and this lady across the aisle nearly bit DH's head off. DH got into it with her and asked if she'd rather have him crying and she said, "Yes". Many, many people are very intolerant of babies on planes.

[JBaxter]

I told a man to turn around and mind his own business because he didnt WANT to really piss me off and he was NEVER to address my child again. My then 7 yr old was getting things out of his back pack under his seat and he told him to sit in his seat and stop fidgeting.. I think I frightened the flight attendent LOL

[infocrazy]

Yes, we sat behind 6 hungover college spring break girls on our return flight from Orlando. My BFF and I had my 2 and 4 yo, and her 2 yo, plus 3 car seats and carryons. The girl in front of DS2 literally groaned to her friends that she had to sit in front of a kid...one girl laughed hysterically until she realized she was sitting in front of my friend's 2 yo.

She asked to switch rows with us, and couldn't understand why I didn't want to move my 2 buckled in kids, their carseats, and all our carryons. She actually said, It is very important that I sleep on this flight.:47: I told her it would help to not recline her seat into the 2 yo.

A woman in the aisle commented Unbelievable, which I think shamed her into not saying anything the rest of the flight...not that she could since my boys behaved great. I spent most of the flight though preparing comebacks though if she said something. I hope someday when she is in my position she remembers her behavior and is ashamed, but somehow I doubt it.

All her tantrum did though is make me not feel guilty about DS2 kicking her seat.

[AnnieW625]

Once when DD was 15 mos. old and on a return flight from the ILs that had been preceeded by at 3/1/2 hr. car ride to the airport I got the "oh that's just the lady and her screaming baby" comment from a guy on his cell phone before our plane took off. It was the one flight I wished I would've sprung and bought a seat for DD. She was cranky the whole time and I couldn't do much about it, which sucked, but I had no sympathy for that guy or the lady who snarked at me when I offered her my aisle seat over her window so she wouldn't have to get up, and shuffle around us if needed. She took the aisle seat, but looked mad the whole flight. That was the last time I ever thought to offer an aisle seat as a nice gesture (or I thought it was because they are soo popular!).

[MMMommy]

The lady should not have turned around and made nasty comments. I think she could have found a nice and civil way to ask you to maybe adjust the car seat or chair so that she wouldn't get kicked. She didn't have to be mean about it. I think it is totally in her right to ask you to make some adjustments so that she doesn't keep getting kicked, but not be mean in doing so.

[Nicsmom]

A few years ago I read a column in The Economist that said that planes should have a "children section", just as there was a "smoking section" years ago when smoking was allowed in planes. Needless to say, people were outraged with the columnist by what they perceived as a form of discrimination against children and I believe he finally apologized and said that he was joking. But honestly, I do not think it is a bad idea. As a parent, I would like to be seated next to families with kids when I am flying with mine. I would feel more comfortable because I know that the people next to us will understand if my child cries, or whines, or accidentally kicks the seat in front of him. DS is very well behaved in planes but he is a child, and people can be very mean in planes. Just the looks you get when you fly with a baby ( you can see in people faces that they don't want you to sit next to them) are really annoying.

[Melanie]

A few years ago I read a column in The Economist that said that planes should have a "children section", just as there was a "smoking section" years ago when smoking was allowed in planes. Needless to say, people were outraged with the columnist by what they perceived as a form of discrimination against children and I believe he finally apologized and said that he was joking. But honestly, I do not think it is a bad idea. As a parent, I would like to be seated next to families with kids when I am flying with mine. I would feel more comfortable because I know that the people next to us will understand if my child cries, or whines, or accidentally kicks the seat in front of him. DS is very well behaved in planes but he is a child, and people can be very mean in planes. Just the looks you get when you fly with a baby ( you can see in people faces that they don't want you to sit next to them) are really annoying.

I think that's a great idea! And the seats ought to be a little bigger like business class, too.

[TwinFoxes]

The lady should not have turned around and made nasty comments. I think she could have found a nice and civil way to ask you to maybe adjust the car seat or chair so that she wouldn't get kicked. She didn't have to be mean about it. I think it is totally in her right to ask you to make some adjustments so that she doesn't keep getting kicked, but not be mean in doing so.

I have to say I agree with this, mean comments are never in order. But having my seat kicked drives me bonkers! And not just by kids, sometimes it's adults in movie theaters. I'm always nice about it when I ask.

That being said...my DDs were the WORST babies ever on our return flight. The outbound flight, they were little angels. Coming back, we checked in 2 1/2 hours early because we were flying out of Detroit the day after the terrorist attempt. We cleared security in 1/2 an hour. So we had to entertain them for two hours. Then our plane was delayed. By the time we left, they were in NO mood to be in cooped up. They kicked, yelled, cried, squirmed. Did everything possible to annoy the people around us, including throwing my DH's eyeglasses at the guy behind our seats. No one said a word. DH said one woman gave us a dirty look when she walked past us, but I'm sure she was just trying to commit my kids' faces to memory so she'll never sit near them again! They were THAT bad (and we had toys, food, I even downloaded Mickey Mouse Clubhouse videos onto my iPhone...it didn't matter).

I guess I should have started my own thread...:o

[MamaMolly]

All my parenting rules go out the window when I fly with DD except the ones that keep her quiet and happy. This summer we had a 3 leg flight. I did a craptastic job of planning for flight there, DD was hungry, tired, stressed and horribly behaved. I've never been so miserable. On the 3rd leg (which was the next day due to missed flights and delays) and the return flights home I pumped DD full of cookies, chips, candy, gum, lollypops, and 30 billion sippy cups. She got to mash every button on my cell phone and I wouldn't have cared if she tore the thing in half. We left stickers all over every vomit bag and in flight magazine we got near. She was an absolute angel.

JME here, but I've found people to be nicer about DD as a baby than a toddler, and the cuter I dress her the nicer they are. Obnoxious but true.

[Nicsmom]

I think that's a great idea! And the seats ought to be a little bigger like business class, too.

Definitely!!!!

[arivecchi]

Yes, you don't realize how stressful it is to fly with kids until you have them! I used to hate crying babies on planes and now am so sorry when I see a parent dealing with a baby/toddler meltdown. I always try to be super conscious of what my kids are doing while on a plane. I do not allow them to kick the seats in front of us, but yeah, they are not always perfectly still and quiet. I do all I can. One of my biggest flying pet peeves actually has nothing to do with kids, it is adults who lean on and move my seatback as they are getting up. So we are all guilty of doing annoying things on a plane, it is not just kids.

[lizzywednesday]

This is why I have told DH he's insane to think anything other than a direct flight when we travel with our LO-on-the-way.

On our honeymoon, DH worried about the toddler in the row ahead of us to HI, but he didn't have to - kid sacked out as soon as we were at cruising altitude (cute li'l bugger, too) ... and last year was probably the worst - fussy baby ahead of us, but she was just frustrated (poor kid) and likely teething.

We have plans to fly with our own LO next December (Baby will be appx. 9mos old; flight will be EWR to PHX) and are preparing for the stares & glares, but DH is being practical - he's gonna buy an extra seat (YES!) so we have the extra room in case Baby is fussy.

Honestly, it's harder to amuse DH on most flights than it is a small child!

[ha98ed14]

Not to be as rude as the passenger on the plane was, but I have kids and if someone's DC was repeatedly kicking my seat, I would have been irritated too. I wouldn't have been rude about it, but I would have appreciated them telling the DC not to do it. DD flew FF for the first time this Thanksgiving and we made a real effort to curtail that behavior.

[jenandahalf]

I definitely have sympathy for those times when nothing you can do works, sometimes kids are just fussy and you can't do anything about it. It's when they make absolutely no effort at all to comfort or control their kids that irritates me, not just because I have to listen to it but because they give the rest of us a bad name!

[smcdonald2]

I definitely have sympathy for those times when nothing you can do works, sometimes kids are just fussy and you can't do anything about it. It's when they make absolutely no effort at all to comfort or control their kids that irritates me, not just because I have to listen to it but because they give the rest of us a bad name!

:yeahthat:

It isn't the "kids being kids" or the exhausted parents making an effort that make me mad. It's the hellions screaming and attacking people, while their parents nod benevolently like "aren't they cute"?

I fully realize that my kids aren't special to anyone but our family. I don't expect other people to enjoy them. I expect my kids to behave and when they don't, I apologize.

[MmeSunny]

The lady should not have turned around and made nasty comments. I think she could have found a nice and civil way to ask you to maybe adjust the car seat or chair so that she wouldn't get kicked. She didn't have to be mean about it. I think it is totally in her right to ask you to make some adjustments so that she doesn't keep getting kicked, but not be mean in doing so.

While I understand the child-free standpoint, if airlines included two extra inches of pitch, the kicking wouldn't be an issue. If they allowed convertable car seats to be installed rearfacing, it wouldn't be an issue. If they allowed more movement about the cabin, during the flight, it wouldn't be an issue. As things are now, it's an issue.

Strapping a kid under age 5 in a car seat for multiple hours and expecting them NOT to move their legs is unrealistic. As adults we shift in our seats, cross our legs, etc. Kids strapped in car seats can't do that. They just can't.

Airlines could be doing a lot to help parents, but they don't. Flight attendants grit their teeth when they see a small child and car seat boarding a plane. They won't allow a rearfacing convertable seat, but expect your toddler not to move thier legs. They won't allow additional pitch so that a child in a front facing carseat won't have their knees up against the seat back in front of them. They don't give any assistance to single parents carrying loads of crap and trying to install car seats and kid-wrangle at the same time. They ask you to please have a seat when you are ON YOUR WAY back from the bathroom with your child. They could be giving our crayons/coloring books/snacks/headphones, etc. ANY little thing similar to what restaurants/hotels/hairstylists/etc do for kids BUT THEY AREN'T.

They charge full price for a child and barely tolerate their presence.

Don't even get me started on the TSA. . . or as I call it "The Sucky Administration".

[kozachka]

While I understand the child-free standpoint, if airlines included two extra inches of pitch, the kicking wouldn't be an issue.

Would you be willing to pay more for your ticket if there were more room between seats? I've done some research on airlines at my last job, and most airlines are struggling financially and have lost a lot of money when the cost of airline fuel more than doubled and businesses curtailed flying. Most people buy airline tickets based on price, not features. I know I do. I've been on some airlines that offer premium economy with more room between seats but have not seen too many kids there, if any.

[jenandahalf]

Oh I've had to fight them for a meal for my full-price seated toddler before. It's not enough that I am paying the same price as that 400lb guy who brought 4 giant cases without paying any excess baggage for my 3 year old teeny kid who didn't even have luggage, now I can't get the doll-sized roll with a sliver of cheese in it and 3 pretzels that I paid for?!

Last time we flew Lufthansa (2005) they gave us a great little kids package for a 45 minute flight we were code-shared on. How hard is it?

[kozachka]

Not to be as rude as the passenger on the plane was, but I have kids and if someone's DC was repeatedly kicking my seat, I would have been irritated too. I wouldn't have been rude about it, but I would have appreciated them telling the DC not to do it.

:yeahthat: I used to fly a LOT until recently, with and without DS. I would not have liked (although I might not have said anything) my seat repeatedly kicked or pushed. My other pet peeve is adults pushing their knees into the back of my seat or grabbing the top of my seat for support when they get in and out of their seat behind me.

And, yes, I let DS watch cartoons for as long as he wants/battery lasts and eat ice-cream/candy on the plane to get through the flight. We also bring our own food since he might or might not have the patience to wait for the food to be served, and I am not crazy about airline food. DS has torn a lot of airline magazines when he was younger, since he thought it was fun and it kept him busy.

[foodiezen]

Thanks for all your comments, stories, and replies. I tried to adjust the seat so DS wouldn't be kicking but it just didn't work out because we have a Boulevard and his legs would reach the serving table infront every time he moved his feet. The lady had an empty seat next to her, she could have moved. I did aplogize once at the beginning. --Katherine

[kozachka]

The lady had an empty seat next to her, she could have moved.

She could have moved to an empty seat and she did not? WOW! I can't think of a reason not to, but she had nobody to blame but herself than.

Also, when DS behaves less than perfectly in a public space, I make sure to discipline him loudly enough for the people he is affection to hear that I do that. That way they know I am at least trying. It helps a bit. But flying is stressful for everybody these days, so :hug5:for having a difficult time on the plane with your DS.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

If they allowed convertable car seats to be installed rearfacing, it wouldn't be an issue.

I have never had a problem using a rear-facing car seat on a plane. I install it the same way in the plane as in the car, and she was rear-facing in the car until three years of age. Rear facing is so much easier on the plane for so many reasons. No kicking, no dropped toys, she can see my face so we can play games together, etc.

I only had one question from a FA and I simply said "I have to install it here the same way I do in the car" and she said "oh okay". I was prepared to show her the weight limits in the manual so she could see I was using it in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

[gatorsmom]

Also, when DS behaves less than perfectly in a public space, I make sure to discipline him loudly enough for the people he is affection to hear that I do that. That way they know I am at least trying. It helps a bit.

Yep, I do this too. You know, we must be really lucky because our kids have flown alot and i"ve never had any trouble with other passengers. I make sure to be over-the-top apologetic to anyone around us who is listening or looking at us. And like MamaMolly, all my parenting rules go out the door when flying. Anything that will keep them quiet, happy and calm is the new rule.

That said, having 4 children I KNOW that sometimes keeping them happy, quiet and calm is impossible. Traveling makes it even more impossible. They are off their schedules (and thus feel like they have no control over their situation), the food is strange, they are uncomfortable and can't express well why, they are surrounded by strange faces in a strange environment, etc. It really doesn't irritate me when a child behind me is frustrated and kicking my seat. What else can they do to express their frustration/discomfort/boredom/irritation? But I at least expect the parents to make an attempt to either apologize or redirect their child's energies. Otherwise, imho, the parents are being disrespectful to me and giving all parents a bad name.

[MMMommy]

Thanks for all your comments, stories, and replies. I tried to adjust the seat so DS wouldn't be kicking but it just didn't work out because we have a Boulevard and his legs would reach the serving table infront every time he moved his feet. The lady had an empty seat next to her, she could have moved. I did aplogize once at the beginning. --Katherine

I feel for you. The Boulevard must have been a bear to install and adjust in a plane seat. We have Britax Marathons in our car, and even those are probably smaller than the Boulevard. I highly recommend the Cosco Scenera for travel, especially on airplanes. Definitely less bulky and easier to handle than a Britax Marathon or Boulevard on an airplane. Also, very reasonably priced for under $50. A "no frills" reliable car seat perfect for airplane travel (and for the rental car, if needed).

I'm sorry the lady made you feel bad. Her nasty comments were uncalled for. There is a nice way to say things and a not so nice way to say things. A little empathy on her part would have helped.