Update in OP: OMG he is STILL crying

[Kymberley]

Update: The night before last, we tried the PNP in our room with me nursing him laying down and then putting him down in his PNP. No go. We ended up cosleeping at around 2 am just to have some rest.

Last night, I started a new schedule. Bedtime routine started at 7, DS in bed by 8. Asleep by 9. Not too bad. DH got home at 10 (he is gone 14 hours a day) and DS woke up and would not go back to sleep. I left all the lights off, nursed him, put him down. He started crying immediately of course. I went in to comfort and sing to him, but he just wanted ME. I left the room and sent DH in. He sang Jesus Loves Me while rubbing DS's back and he went to sleep! And stayed that way! DH is convinced that it's because he sang that song to DS in the womb and soon after he was born. I'm just thrilled that DH can have his "thing" that is so very important to DS because DH is gone so long everyday and can't be as involved as he'd like. I nearly cried, I was so happy. I really hope this works every night!

__________________________________________________ ______________

We've been doing CIO for 5 nights now, and every night is worse than the previous one. He's been going strong for 3 hours now. I don't think this is working. The only positive is when he does go to sleep, he's out all night. HOLY COW, how long do I let him do this? I'm about to give up.

[Laurel]

How old is your child? :hug:

[Kymberley]

5 1/2 months. He's just had his first 2 teeth come in, so I know he's not happy right now. He finally fell asleep about 5 minutes ago. I just feel awful.

[elektra]

Poor guy. Poor mama.
Are you following any specific plan like Ferber or Weissbluth? I know one of the big things with Weissbluth is making sure the naps are working out well because they supposedly help set your child up for success with the nighttime sleeping.

[traciann]

My question would be are you going in at the 5-10-15-20-etc times or no check-in? Are you getting him/picking him up at all?

My first dd was pretty textbook CIO. My second one has been more challenging. We did CIO and it took her along time to not cry when I put her to bed. I could check on her and there was nothing wrong with her (feed, change, etc) so I just rode it out and ignored the crying. You have to remind yourself that if he is ok (ie, not hungry, wet diaper) then he is just crying because he is mad. If you think his teeth really are bothering him then I would give tylenol to help. I know how hard it is to hear the crying, but for us the payoff has been worth it.

[SnuggleBuggles]

At 5.5m it may not be a good age to do it. Plus, he's teething and may just want some extra love. You aren't going to lose if you decide to try again in a few weeks/ months instead.

Beth

[Kymberley]

We are doing Ferber. The first couple of nights it seemed to be okay, not great of course, but at least he was asleep in about an hour and a half. I've increased the time in between "soothing" him each night, last night I waited 20 minutes before going in, and when he he heard me, he was fit to be tied. It seems to make it worse. So after an hour of screaming, I went in and picked him up (probably a mistake, I know) and he stopped screaming immediately. I nursed him, he fell asleep in my arms, so I put him down, and he was wide awake and crying again. I had DH go in for the soothing after that, I just couldn't take it. He refused to take a nap yesterday, so maybe that had something to do with it too. If this doesn't work, what do I do? We coslept with him until 5 days ago but none of us were sleeping well with that arrangement anymore. If I just let him do this for a while, it will eventually work, right?? Should we just not go in and soothe him and let him cry on his own?

[Reyadawnbringer]

From what I have read in the ferber book it is not best to do the CIO method when baby is going through a big change (i.e. teething). Also, it is IMPERITIVE that you are consistant. That means, not giving in for a night by picking them up and nursing to sleep. You have to either stick with it, or try again in another month or two. Also, we had to remember to not go in at the interval times if it sounded like he was winding down on his own.

Personally I would not do it right now for your DC. Teething is tough and they often don't understand what is going on in their mouths and they need extra love and comforting. I would wait until teething is over or has at least settled down some.

[traciann]

We are doing Ferber. The first couple of nights it seemed to be okay, not great of course, but at least he was asleep in about an hour and a half. I've increased the time in between "soothing" him each night, last night I waited 20 minutes before going in, and when he he heard me, he was fit to be tied. It seems to make it worse. So after an hour of screaming, I went in and picked him up (probably a mistake, I know) and he stopped screaming immediately. I nursed him, he fell asleep in my arms, so I put him down, and he was wide awake and crying again. I had DH go in for the soothing after that, I just couldn't take it. He refused to take a nap yesterday, so maybe that had something to do with it too. If this doesn't work, what do I do? We coslept with him until 5 days ago but none of us were sleeping well with that arrangement anymore. If I just let him do this for a while, it will eventually work, right?? Should we just not go in and soothe him and let him cry on his own?

Yes, I think the fact that you picked him up an nursed him and he fell asleep is most likely why he is crying harder now. Next time (tonight) I would nurse him(don't let him fall alseep while feeding) make sure he has a clean diaper before you put him in bed, and then do NOT go back in there. It seems like now that you have gone in, he is just going to cry harder/longer because now he knows you will come in at some point. I know its hard, but if you know that he is ok physically, that really he is just mad. You are the parent and you know what is best for him and that is getting good sleep. I read the sleep stuff in the Baby 411 book and that really helped me.

[kristenk]

So did he go from cosleeping one night to trying CIO in his own bed the next night? If so, that's a HUGE switch. The combo of new teeth, moving to a new bed/room and CIO might be really difficult for him.

Good luck. I know that sleep issues can be so hard for everyone in the family.

[maydaymommy]

I think that going from cosleeping to crying-it-out in a 5 day span would be a pretty traumatic change.

[Kymberley]

So what should I have done differently? Should I go back to cosleeping for a few weeks? If so, how do I transition him to his crib next time? I didn't think I could feel worse about this, but I do. Not because of you guys, but because I know you're right. We did this because DH wanted to, and I'm kind of ticked at him over it. But that's a whole other canof worms. WWYD??

[jillc]

I think you're right about it being too big of a change to go straight from cosleeping to CIO in his own crib. I'm sure you'll get a full range of suggestions here, and you'll find your own solution that works best for your family.

Don't beat yourself up, though, Mama.

I am not a Ferber or Weissbluth expert, by any means. I do have friends who have used those resources and had success, but most of their babies were a few months older than your DS, so may have been more "ready" or able to self-soothe. Again, not an expert, just guessing.

Here's what I did, FWIW. We did not cosleep, except for times when we'd be nursing in bed and fall asleep for a couple hours. I always rocked, sang songs, and nursed at bedtime. 99% of the time baby fell asleep nursing, I transferred them to the crib & then they slept a few hours before waking. When they woke during the night, I'd go in & they'd be insistent on nursing, we'd rock and nurse, and they'd conk out again. At 6 months old, they woke about 2-3 times each night, which gradually decreased in frequency. Both of my kids was still waking one time during the night until about 17 months. But they were quick nursers, so it really only took about 8 minutes for me to get them snuggled, nursed, and back to bed at each waking. For me, this worked just fine. Everyone's tolerance for nighttime parenting is different, I know. I did try some CIO with both of my kids during a time or two of frequent waking, and it was not for us. I felt that they needed me and they didn't understand why I was not answering their cries.


Sorry this was long and rambling. Hope this helps somehow.
Jill

[Kymberley]

That does help Jill, thank you. The problem is DS has never been one to sleep in his crib, hence the cosleeping. I have successfully transferred him once to his bed while he was sleeping after nursing, and that was during the day for his nap. I've tried laying him down drowsy, and the second he hits the mattress, he's wide awake and crying. I've thought about his sheet being too cold and waking him up, and maybe that's part of it, but I am sill at a loss. The only thing he wants is to be held and he's been like that since he was born. FWIW, he seems to be a high needs baby, as in he needs me more than anything. When we go to a relative's house, he will only let me hold him. If anyone else LOOKS at him, he cries. But if family visits us, he's okay with being held by someone else after a period of time being comforted by me. Now I'm rambling, I'm sorry, I just feel like the worst mother in the world right now.

[maestramommy]

Is it your goal (or maybe your Dh's goal) to get your DS to sleep in his own bed? If so, that will take a while. I'm not a cosleeper, so I don't know exactly what steps to take, but maybe you could do something like nurse him to sleep in your bed, then transfer him to the crib, but keep it in your room (is it in another room?). Then after a couple of weeks try putting him down drowsy in your bed, unless you're worried about him rolling off. Then transfer him to the crib when he's dead asleep. Then after a few weeks of that try putting him in the crib.

We did a version of Weissbluth, but our kids have always slept in a crib in their own room after the first couple of months. And we didn't do CIO until almost 6 months, when it became harder and harder to rock them to sleep. We didn't go in every few minutes either. That seemed to make them madder, as if they thought I was playing with their minds showing up and not picking them up. It was faster and easier just to stay out and keep an ear on the monitor.

I don't really have any answers but it seem as though the transition might be too much a of leap to do all at once.

[maydaymommy]

I apologize for being negative without offering a solution. I agree with not beating yourself up. Lack of sleep can make people do crazy things. You and your dh NEED sleep. Until you figure out a solution or a method you want to try, can you take shifts in the baby's room?

You mention putting him down on cold sheets -- I know he's 5+ months old, but have you tried swaddling? It's hard with a bigger baby, but they make large size swaddlers that could really help. Order one! It could make him feel more like when he's held by you. I would also guess that sleeping out of your bed, but still in your room may be the first transitional step to take.

For us it worked to try to recognize sleep cues and put the baby in the crib when he was tired, but still slightly awake. There were phases when he would freak when I left the room, so for a month or so I remember always putting away laundry in his room or just generally milling about in there while he fell asleep. I wasn't holding him or interacting with him, but he knew I was near. If I had to pat his back or something I was right there to do it. Sometimes I would read a book (to myself, we'd already read and sung and rocked him) in his room while he was falling asleep.

Here are some books/resources about various more gentle methods. I read the Pantley book and my bff used the Sleepy Planet method (she and her dh are both psychologists). I honestly don't remember what I thought about the Sleep Lady.

http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Gentle-Through/dp/0071381392/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263312518&sr=1-6

http://www.sleepyplanet.com/products/

http://www.sleeplady.com/

My old pediatrician, whom we loved and respected was more hard core about sleep than we were. He would say that every method you find boils down to letting them be on their own, and there will be some crying. I don't know if he was right or not. It may just be that there is some amount of crying, and it depends what your family is comfortable with.

I found that for several periods of ds1's development, there was lots of "fussing" and "complaining" around going to sleep and being put down in his crib. But, fussing was something I was ok with, and I believe it differed greatly from crying. We didn't do any of that until he was a much older baby anyway. Also, there were periods when I knew that he was going to cry before falling asleep for a nap if I were laying on a bed right there next to him -- so in that situation I didn't feel bad if he cried for 3 minutes with me not there -- even though we didn't CIO in general.

Good luck. It's not easy, but at some point they figure out when they are supposed to sleep, what goes in their mouth and what doesn't, and (I've heard) they even get pee & poop in the right place!

[Kymberley]

Thanks all. I'll be spending a lot of time reading today, and I'm going to trust my instincts tonight. Keep the suggestions coming, though! I'm also going to stop beating myself up because that doesn't make it any better. DS is just waking up, so I'm off to nurse.

[ray7694]

I did CIO and it never went that long. I would think 3 hours is over the top. If the daytime schedule is not good the night time will also suffer. I would not try CIO until the daytime schedule is consistent.

[Moneypenny]

You've gotten lots of good advice so far, but I just wanted to mention the whole 'nighttime routine' thing. We started really young with DD just so that she would know certain things meant bedtime. So we'd change dipe, put on jammies, dim lights, read a book (just look at a board book for a minute at that age), nurse and then I'd sing to her while I burped her. Even if she fell asleep while nursing I'd prop her up a little and sing and burp.

My nephew had a terrible time with night-time sleep, so I know my SIL and brother spent a few weeks standing by his crib and rubbing his back while he cried for a while. Gradually they reduced the amount of time they would spend rubbing his back and would just sit on the floor next to his crib. Again, they gradually reduced the amount of time they spent sitting on the floor and eventually reached the point where they could put him down and then leave the room.

You are on the right track by following your instincts. There are lots of ways to help babies get sleep - you just have to find the one that fits best for you and your little guy!

[KrisM]

I think going from co-sleeping to CIO is huge. I really think you are asking a bit much from a 5.5 month old to adapt to such a big change. I think it would work better if you first got him used to sleeping in the crib and then worked on going to sleep without you there.

We co-sleep and I transitioned DS to go to sleep in his crib, in his room, at about 12m. I would nurse, and put him in the crib and then sit next to the crib until he fell asleep. I'd bring a book or my laptop, as sometimes it was a long time. He usually didn't cry, but would want to hold my hand and just lie there.

After a few nights of that, I stopped holding his hand, but still sat there.

Another few nights, and I sat in his room, but not next to the crib.

Another few nights, and I left the room and just came back every 5 minutes to check on him.

Now, I put him in the crib and he cries (still) for about 3 minutes and goes to sleep.

Mine still wakes during the night and I'm hoping to work on that soon :).

[Momof3Labs]

My girls are close in age, and have responded really well to white noise (we just introduced it recently). They got the Cloud B Sleep Sheep (from amazon) for Christmas, which plays white noise. I turn it on when I put them down (usually a little awake - sometimes not) both at naptime and bedtime, in hopes that they will associate it with sleep. We had a lot of luck with white noise with the boys, too.

ITA that 3 hours is too much crying and it is time to change your approach. We did CIO with DS1 around 8-9m and the first day or two was rough, but the crying diminished quickly and was gone in several days.

Are you using a fleece or chamois sheet? Baby Depot and PBK carry some, or at least they both used to - so much warmer than cotton. Try warming his crib with a heating pad (remove the pad and test the sheet with your hand before putting him down), nurse and rock him to sleep, and then put him in the warm crib with white noise. Is he sleeping on his tummy yet? If not, you might try that too.

[arivecchi]

I think going from co-sleeping to CIO is huge. I really think you are asking a bit much from a 5.5 month old to adapt to such a big change. I think it would work better if you first got him used to sleeping in the crib and then worked on going to sleep without you there. :yeahthat: In case this is any help at all, this is the transition we had with our kids:

1) newborn - Sleep in pack n play in our room
2) 3 months - start naps in their cribs in their rooms
3) 4-5 months - put them in their cribs for nighttime
4) CIO - we did CIO at 4.5 months with DS1 and 5.5 months with DS2

They do need a bit of time to get used to their room and their cribs before you do CIO. Maybe you can start with naps in the crib first?

Make the room as comfy for them as possible. Both of my kids love sleeping with noisy fans. They just love the white noise. Make sure the room is dark so they can sleep better. We use dim nightlights. Use fleece sleepsacks so they are warm and comfy. Since we live in a cold area, we currently have our baby in a long-sleeve onesie, a fleece sleeper and two sleepsacks.

Once your baby is ready for CIO, you do need to be consistent and not pick them up, etc. CIO has only lasted 3 nights with both of my kids.

I hope you find a system that works for you real soon. I know how awful sleep deprivation is. Hugs. :hug:

[SnuggleBuggles]

I nursed to sleep. Nurse till totally asleep then transfer to the crib. Neither of my kids grew up to have issues falling asleep on their own even though they were nursed to sleep for much of their first years. It worked and so I went with it. :)

Beth

[slworld]

I didn't read through all the replies so maybe someone already mentioned this. So he moved from your bed to a crib in another room, right? I think maybe it is too big of a change. I would suggest first getting him used to sleeping in his crib (maybe with the crib in your room). We did CIO at around 4months (of course our situation was different). DS was already sleeping in his crib in our bedroom. We were rocking DS to sleep for naps & nighttime and had to get him to fall asleep on his own. His naps were really bad - 30minutes. At night he would wake up every couple of hours and couldn't go back to sleep. We didn't do CIO for naps (i didn't think it was worth for the amount of time he napped). We did whatever we could to get him to nap. For night CIO, we did the bedtime routine & we didn't go back in once we put him in his crib. He still wakes up a couple of times but is able to go back to sleep on his own. Once your DS is comfortable in his crib, then you could move him into another room. We didn't have any trouble moving DS to his room at 17months and everyone is sleeping so much better now (wish we did this earlier). HTH.

[JBaxter]

Teething and going to his own crib is alot at that age.

I started with naps in Jacks crib ( we coslept till 9 or 10 months) then moved to nights. We did cry it out some but he never went more than an hour. That was my line ( im a softy ) If hes teething did you try some motrin before putting him down? If his teeth hurt its only gonna feel worse if hes all worked up and crying.

[Kymberley]

You guys are right, it's too much all at once. I'm going to put his pack n play next to my side of the bed tonight. It's warm and cozy, and I think he'll be a lot happier in it for a while. I think I'm going to lay down with him and nurse him to sleep, wait until he is sleeping soundly and put him in his PNP. I'll stay with him until he falls asleep again. I'm going to keep our bedtime routine the same, which is diaper change, lotion/massage, put the grobag on, read, then nurse. He's been getting tylenol before bed for his teeth. I know Motrin would work better, but he's not yet 6mo and he was a slight preemie (37 weeks), so I'm going to wait about another month before we try it. Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anything else you'd do? Thanks again, everyone.

[SnuggleBuggles]

You guys are right, it's too much all at once. I'm going to put his pack n play next to my side of the bed tonight. It's warm and cozy, and I think he'll be a lot happier in it for a while. I think I'm going to lay down with him and nurse him to sleep, wait until he is sleeping soundly and put him in his PNP. I'll stay with him until he falls asleep again. I'm going to keep our bedtime routine the same, which is diaper change, lotion/massage, put the grobag on, read, then nurse. He's been getting tylenol before bed for his teeth. I know Motrin would work better, but he's not yet 6mo and he was a slight premie (37 weeks), so I'm going to wait about another month before we try it. Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anything else you'd do? Thanks again, everyone.

:thumbsup: Sounds like an excellent plan! I hope you all sleep well tonight!!

Beth

[KrisM]

You guys are right, it's too much all at once. I'm going to put his pack n play next to my side of the bed tonight. It's warm and cozy, and I think he'll be a lot happier in it for a while. I think I'm going to lay down with him and nurse him to sleep, wait until he is sleeping soundly and put him in his PNP. I'll stay with him until he falls asleep again. I'm going to keep our bedtime routine the same, which is diaper change, lotion/massage, put the grobag on, read, then nurse. He's been getting tylenol before bed for his teeth. I know Motrin would work better, but he's not yet 6mo and he was a slight preemie (37 weeks), so I'm going to wait about another month before we try it. Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anything else you'd do? Thanks again, everyone.


Sounds like a good plan.

I didn't mention above that for a while, his crib was next to our bed. That made it easier.

[Reyadawnbringer]

You guys are right, it's too much all at once. I'm going to put his pack n play next to my side of the bed tonight. It's warm and cozy, and I think he'll be a lot happier in it for a while. I think I'm going to lay down with him and nurse him to sleep, wait until he is sleeping soundly and put him in his PNP. I'll stay with him until he falls asleep again. I'm going to keep our bedtime routine the same, which is diaper change, lotion/massage, put the grobag on, read, then nurse. He's been getting tylenol before bed for his teeth. I know Motrin would work better, but he's not yet 6mo and he was a slight preemie (37 weeks), so I'm going to wait about another month before we try it. Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anything else you'd do? Thanks again, everyone.

:yeahthat: This is exactly what I would do. One he is use to sleeping in the pack in play then you can try putting him in his crib for naps.

Good luck and I hope you guys get some rest soon. :)

[arivecchi]

:yeahthat: This is exactly what I would do. One he is use to sleeping in the pack in play then you can try putting him in his crib for naps.

Good luck and I hope you guys get some rest soon. :) I agree with Reyadawnbringer. You have an excellent plan. Try naps in his crib in his room after he calms down from the CIO attempt. :)

[edurnemk]

Here's what I did, FWIW. We did not cosleep, except for times when we'd be nursing in bed and fall asleep for a couple hours. I always rocked, sang songs, and nursed at bedtime. 99% of the time baby fell asleep nursing, I transferred them to the crib & then they slept a few hours before waking. When they woke during the night, I'd go in & they'd be insistent on nursing, we'd rock and nurse, and they'd conk out again. At 6 months old, they woke about 2-3 times each night, which gradually decreased in frequency.


I would nurse, and put him in the crib and then sit next to the crib until he fell asleep. I'd bring a book or my laptop, as sometimes it was a long time. He usually didn't cry, but would want to hold my hand and just lie there.

After a few nights of that, I stopped holding his hand, but still sat there.

Another few nights, and I sat in his room, but not next to the crib.

Another few nights, and I left the room and just came back every 5 minutes to check on him.

Now, I put him in the crib and he cries (still) for about 3 minutes and goes to sleep.

Mine still wakes during the night and I'm hoping to work on that soon :).

We did exactly the same. For the first 6 months, he slept in our room until then, and naps in his room, and I let him nurse to sleep. Then we took very, very gradual steps to get him to sleep in his room on his own, much like KrisM did. By 12 months I had weaned him of the middle-of-the-night nursing, and started reducing the amount of milk in his bottle until he stopped waking up for the 2 am feeding.

At 13 months I finally decided to use Ferber, but I was already at the point of just sitting in the room until he fell asleep, so it took only 3 or 4 nights and less than 30 minutes in total each night.


If the daytime schedule is not good the night time will also suffer. I would not try CIO until the daytime schedule is consistent.

IME, babies' schedules only start to become more consistent around 5 months, so maybe waiting a few weeks is not a bad idea.

There was a time when I thought he would never learn to fall asleep on his own, and that I'd be spending 45 minutes to and hour every night getting him to sleep, but we survived. Since he's 13 months old he falls asleep on his own alone in the room, even when we traveled, even when we moved... we always do the exact same bedtime routine, and it works.

I think you should follow your instincts, your babies cues and take little steps. It's a lot of change for a little baby, it shouldn't have be too stressful for him or you.

[miki]

My DS is super super high needs. Nothing I did helped as much as just time passing. He had to be held for literally every nap until about 7 months. We co-slept in the beginning and when it was time for the crib, I slept with him in his room for several days. He would be in his crib and I was on a bed we had in there. White noise helped so much. I bought a Marpac white noise machine recommended by friends and it's the best $50 I have ever spent.

I read lots of sleep books. Nothing at all worked with my DD. CIO just made her really mad. At around 10 months, she just stopped waking on her own like magic. DS is a Ferber baby. The early bedtime does not work with him. Winding down with stories and whatnot does not work with him. He has to be active right up until bedtime. When he was not falling asleep easily, I followed Ferber's suggestion for pushing bedtime later (Weissbluth tends to say earlier) and it worked wonders. DS just needs to be really, really tired and he'll sleep like a log.

And blackout curtains! That made both my kids sleep an extra 30 minutes at least in the mornings and makes bedtime so much easier in the summer when sunset is so late.

Good luck!

[Kymberley]

Updated in OP.

[hillview]

So glad that worked out and that DH has a "thing" :)

We did what you described. Coslept, moved to pnp in our room. Moved to crib. I also was ok to nurse to sleep or do a bottle til about 8 months. We did end up doing CIO with DS1 at age 2 as I was PG with DS2 and needed to get him to bed on his own. DS2 never really needed much of a CIO -- he cries some on occasion but like 10 mins ish.

HUGS this is very hard esp when parents don't 100% agree. It is also SO hard when you need sleep.

Good luck!
/hillary

[arivecchi]

You know, my DH is great with sleep issues, so definitely let your DH try out his ideas as well. Hope you find something that works! This phase won't last forever, so hang in there. :hug:

[MamaMolly]

DH is convinced that it's because he sang that song to DS in the womb and soon after he was born. I'm just thrilled that DH can have his "thing" that is so very important to DS because DH is gone so long everyday and can't be as involved as he'd like. I nearly cried, I was so happy. I really hope this works every night!
.

I have a girlfriend who played samba music every night when her DS was in utero and until he was at least 7 yo. he'd drop off at the first few strains of any samba music. DH may be on to something there!

Congrats on a much better night! Fingers crossed Baby is on a new trend.

[maestramommy]

Just read your update, and congratulations! It's really great when Dh can have his own trick for getting the job done! :cheerleader1: