Where to live in Sf

[[email protected]]

Looks like we'll be moving to San Francisco soon--DH was approached by a recruiter, interviewed 2x and received offer all within 2 weeks. His job will be in San Francisco near the financial district. Right now we're searching for a rental house. Our biggest priorities are schools, commute (ease and time), and proximity to family--MIL lives in El Cerrito.

If you could live anywhere in SF (with kids), where would you live? Where should we be looking at housing? In your experience how closely do neighborhoods fit the stereotypes?

Thank you,

Christine

UPDATED TO ADD: My kids are 4, almost 3 and 8 months

[TwinFoxes]

Do you want to live in SF or just somewhere in the Bay Area? El Cerrito isn't especially close to the City. But it is on a BART line.

Don't live in Richmond (the city in the East Bay, not to be confused with the Richmond District in San Francisco which is fine). It's near El Cerrito, but has a severe crime problem.

Given your parameters, you might want to check out North Berkeley or Albany, which are in the East Bay, and fairly close to El Cerrito. I don't know about the quality of schools though.

If I could live anywhere in the City with kids, I'd probably pick Twin Peaks. Or maybe Noe Valley. Honestly, SF isn't an especially kid-centric town. It has a low percentage of families compared to other large cities (mostly because it's super expensive to live there, and the schools tend not to be great.) But I :heartbeat: SF, if I had a chance to move back I would in a second!

[sariana]

If your DH is willing to use BART, you might want to check out Castro Valley and eastward from there (Pleasanton, Dublin, Livermore). These are "bedroom communities" with good schools and good community resources. Walnut Creek and surrounding also have very good schools, but I don't know how usable public transportation is there. It's been a while since we lived in the Bay Area. Unless BART has expanded (which I think it has), the commute from Walnut Creek is horrendous.

If I had to live in the city of SF, I would want to be near Golden Gate Park. I don't know anything about neighborhoods in SF, though, so that might be a terrible area!

And I second the comment about Richmond. Stay away from that city.

[crl]

Ok, are you planning to live in the city? If so, do you know about the school assignment system? There are neighborhood schools, but only sort of, kind of. There are no guarantees that any child will attend his or her neighborhood school--the whole thing is absurdly complex and in over-simplified terms is a lottery. That system is supposedly being redone, but the current system is still in place for the moment. Are your kids already in school? If so, I think they can be enrolled anywhere there are actually openings. You might get really lucky and get a great school, or not.

Here's the link to the enrollment people at San Francisco Unifed School District (SFUSD) http://portal.sfusd.edu/template/default.cfm?page=policy.placement. (I hate to say this, but they suck. They almost certainly will not talk to you about what schools have openings or anything else really until you move here and provide them with proof of residency--that was my experience the first time we moved here and we ended living all the way across the city from DS' school. And they are awfully fussy about proof of residency so if your kids are already in school or one is starting K next year, pay close attention to those requirements. I think we switched our cell phone billing ASAP so we could use that as a utility bill for proof of residency? And updated our car insurance and printed out new cards? DH did that piece so I can't quite remember.) You've just missed the Round 1 deadline for K enrollment for next year. . . .

We've lived in SF twice now, in the city both times, but only for about 2 years total so I'm no expert.

The first time we lived here, we lived in Miraloma. It's very residential and felt quite safe to me. DH was able to walk down the hill to the Glen Park Bart station in the mornings to commute to work and then he would take the bus home at night. Miraloma Elementary has an excellent reputation and I have a friend with one kid who went there (now in middle school) and another still there. She's been very happy with the school. I liked the looks of the Glen Park area. You could live within walking distance to the Bart and the park there and there are a bunch of shops.

We now live on the Presidio. You can not buy on the Presidio. It's a national park that used to be an Army base. The housing is the former base housing. I like it a lot. It's generally quiet and peaceful. I have hiking trails and beaches in walking distance. It feels quite safe to me.

San Francisco has microclimates. It can be sunny here all day and foggy all day a mile away. So that's one thing to consider. Parking is another huge factor for me. If you are going to live in a neighborhood with tight parking (which is a lot of them), you want to make sure you have a parking spot (or two) with your housing.

I can tell you about DS' preschool, after school care and current (public) school if you want. Just pm me. I can also give you my impressions of the public schools I toured last year during the enrollment process. FYI, preschools here tend to have absurd waiting lists.

Best of luck with everything!
Catherine

[jess_g]

I would pick for Albany. They have good schools and your husband can walk to BART to take him into the city. I grew up in the area and went to Albany High School. I don't know how old your child is, but if he/she is young El Cerrito would be a good choice too. I don't know much about their schools but I think the elementary schools are realy nice. They also have a nice private school in El Cerrito. Both towns are right next to each other and within walking distance to El Cerrito Bart. Good luck with your move. I am jealous as I would love to move back to the area but right now we are settled here on the east coast.

Jessica.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

What about the Peninsula? Anywhere from Millbrae, Burlingame, San Mateo, etc is good. I grew up in So. SF. and honestly would not rec. SSF, Daly City, or most of San Bruno. BART goes to Millbrae. We moved, as we could not afford to buy a bigger home in a nicer area than the one we had in SSF. And we did not want to raise kids in SSF. San Fran proper has distinct neighdorhoods, you need to visit and get a feel for ones you like. SF schools, are mostly not fab. There are a few good ones though. My family with young kids sends their kids to private school. My family has been going to St. Cecelia's for 3 generations, and my parents got married there.

Are you buying or renting? Housing costs are going to be a big factor , and vary by area.

[TwinFoxes]

Are you buying or renting? Housing costs are going to be a big factor , and vary by area.

:yeahthat: This is so, so true. Unless you're coming from NYC, you are likely in for some serious sticker shock. Brace yourself!

[Laurel]

If I could pick anywhere to live in the city of San Francisco, I'd move back to my old neighborhood, Cole Valley/Parnassus Heights. If I could pick any street, it would be Edgewood Ave. Great neighborhood, amazing views, close walk to the streetcar into financial district. Houses are going to be a million and up, though.

I'm not a fan of the east bay at all.

[smiles33]

Our biggest priorities are schools, commute (ease and time), and proximity to family--MIL lives in El Cerrito.


Do you want public schools? Some of the best public schools (i.e., nationally and internationally recognized ones that are so good that families flock to these cities just for the schools) are in the Peninsula/South Bay (Palo Alto, Cupertino). However, those are a long commute from SF (1+ hour on Caltrain or a little less driving but then you have parking issues) and a good 1+ hour drive from your MIL (with no easy public transit option to El Cerrito).

Now, there are tons of great private schools, but that's a huge expense on top of renting/saving for a down payment (assuming you eventually want to buy).

How often do you want to see MIL? The commute from the East Bay to SF isn't bad (30 minutes by BART) but if you want to be close enough for her to help with picking up kids from daycare/school, then maybe suburban East Bay cities like Piedmont, Kensington, and North Berkeley should be on your radar. They are upscale, charming, close to BART and have pretty good public schools, too. Better weather than in some parts of SF, too, as there usually isn't as bad fog in the East Bay as it is in the City (in case you're a SAHM who wants a lot of outdoor time with your kids).

As for the City proper, Noe Valley seems to be very popular with couples with young kids/babies. Families with school-aged kids often end up moving out of the City.

Good luck!

[AnnieW625]

If you don't mind BART then I think you have plenty of options. Livermore being the furthest east is about 45 minutes to an hour on BART (DH used to live there), but it's great for families and the schools are good. Housing will be cheaper than most of the rest of the valley. The Dublin/Pleasanton station is going to be the closest one to Livermore at about 10 minutes away IIRC. Had DH not lost his job we could've easily seen ourselves raising a family in that area. Very down home kind of feeling, and a fair amount of restaurants.

El Cerrito/Albany/Berkeley are still very nice places to raise a family. My aunt and uncle live at the edge of Berkeley/Albany in Berkeley and have been really happy with the public schools (first a K-8 magnet, and then Berkeley High for one cousin who is a senior), and their neighborhood in the Berkeley Unified School District. There are also a few Catholic schools in the area that have been around a long time. It's probably a 20-30 minute BART ride to the Financial District.

My grandma currently lives in the Montclair district in Oakland, which isn't cheap, but if you were going to rent I'd rent in this part of Oakland, it's also very close to Rockridge, which is home to the nearest BART station. Again about a 30-45 minute commute (at most) to the Financial district. I believe that public elementary schools in the area are good, Hillcrest near my Grandma's is very well thought of, but my mom and her siblings went to the local Catholic elementary and Catholic high school. Oakland is very dicey so be very picky, but please feel free to PM me with any questions about the area. Also in that area off of the 580 is Castro Valley, and Hayward, which I believe are still livable.

Another option would be Lafayette, Walnut Creek, Concord, Pittsburg, or Antioch (Lafayette is closest to Oakland, and Antioch is the furthest). The end of the BART line is in Antioch (or more specifically Bay Point). We have friends who have raised kids in the area off of the 24, and 680 freeways and have been very happy with the quality of life and the education. ETA: most people we know have lived in Concord or Walnut Creek, but my cousin's girlfriend is from Antioch, and her family is middle class and happy there. Yes there will be a fair amount of foreclosures out there, and like anywhere be as picky as possible.

I have never lived in San Francisco, but if I had to pick a place to live I'd settle somewhere out near Richmond, Sunset, or close to the Zoo. Homes are a little more spread out space wise and you'll most likely get more for your money out there than you would in the center of the city. Richmond is west of Park Presidio, and north of Golden Gate Park. Sunset is west of 19th and south of Golden Gate Park. Also FWIW the Geary Bus runs straight to the Richmond area from Union Square. There are some good San Francisco neighborhood webpages out there. In recent years I have known people who've decided to live in either the Mission District or Potrero Hill, which 20-25 yrs. ago weren't all that great, but have seen a resurgance.

Good luck, and again feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Here is a link to the BART map, it might be very helpful:
http://www.bart.gov/stations/index.aspx

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

Parts of Antioch and P-burg can be sketchy... They built a bunch of new housing, which was bay area inexpensive, and the turnover/foreclosure rate is kinda high. They also didn't plan for growth well with the freeways. Traffic can be horrible, even getting to BART! I was house sitting for a friend in an older area in Antioch (think number streets), and a lady of the night walked by and met a friend....This was 8 years ago, but still...

[citymama]

I'm a city girl, so I vote for San Francisco proper. It is a wonderfully livable, walkable, city and there's SO much for kids to do here. Neighborhoods that are kid-friendly and convenient to BART/MUNI for your DH to get downtown: Noe Valley (pricey), Glen Park, Dolores Park/Mission, Inner Sunset, Bernal Heights, Duboce Park, West Portal, among others. If you're a sun-seeker, then SOMA, Portrero or the Mission are your best bets; avoid the foggy Sunset and Cole Valley!

If you are definitely moving here, you could join the GGMG (Golden Gate Mothers Group) to start asking these questions, getting leads on preschools, seeing housing listings, etc. Or if you are considering the East Bay then join Berkeley Parents' Network (BPN) which is a great resource.

If you'd like to be close to your MIL in El Cerrito, then Berkeley, Albany, Alameda or somewhere else in the East Bay would be convenient. They also have good schools, esp. in Alameda and Albany. You can also get more for your money - most of the time. Since your DH will work downtown, proximity to BART would be important.

One good thing about your timing is that rental housing is less expensive than it was a year or two ago. That said, depending on where you're moving from, the rents will still boggle your mind!

I don't know how old your kid(s) are, so no idea if you will be looking for preschools, kindergartens, public, private, etc - feel free to PM me offline if you want to get some suggestions or perspectives.

[C99]

I'd want to live in the city, but probably would live outside of it with little kids. SF is not a kid-friendly city on the whole. It is a very 20something/early30something-acting-like-a-kid-friendly city. ;-) DH and I have several friends with school-aged children in that area - they live in Pacifica, Sunnyvale, Richmond, and Portola Valley. My city-dwelling friends are either childless or have newborns.

Financial is an easy commute from anywhere on Caltrain, which runs a straight shot down the Peninsula. I did it from Belmont/San Mateo and Mountain View. Later, we moved to SF and DH and I reverse-commuted to Menlo Park, Redwood City, and Palo Alto, all of which are right on the train.

I'm going back to SF for a wedding in a few weeks and am so excited! DS1 and I have been reading M. Sasek's This Is San Francisco a lot lately and I can't decide how to squeeze it all in 3 days!

[citymama]

I'd want to live in the city, but probably would live outside of it with little kids. SF is not a kid-friendly city on the whole. It is a very 20something/early30something-acting-like-a-kid-friendly city. ;-)

I would differ with this strongly. If you are a suburban living kind of person, then yes, a city is not a place for kids. But unlike New York or even DC, both cities in which I've lived, SF is well set up for kids and families. There are strong neighborhood communities, active PTAs and LOADS of resources for kids. I'm on the neighborhood listserves of 3 neighborhood parents' groups. I can't tell you how much advice, assistance and free stuff I've gotten from moms and dads on those lists. Glen Park, West Portal and Bernal in particular seem to be really tight-knit and family-friendly. True, they're not exclusively residential suburbs, but that's not the same thing as saying they're not kid-friendly.

Now my immediate neighborhood is not one of the above 3 - it is definitely the hip 20 something hood in which we stick out like sore thumbs for our lack of tattoos, colored hair, thrift store vintage threads and piercings. But even so, you see lots of strollers, lemonade stands, yard sales with kids' stuff, we have 3 fantastic playgrounds a stone's throw away, several great preschools within a 10 minute walk from our door; we have Friday night potlucks with neighborhood parents...what can I say, we love it! When we move, I will not miss the hip 20 somethings one bit, but I will miss the community of parents around us, most of whom have put down roots and have no plans to move.

[avd3875]

All the PPs have given you some great information. Many of the nearby cities mentioned really are very nice, and they have good schools.

My parents moved here from NYC when I was two, I've lived here since. I do often feel that there are many aspects of SF that make it very child un-friendly, but there really are so many great opportunities, activities, communities, etc. that make me forget the other stuff. I really can't imagine raising my children any other place. However, my brother moved to Redwood City two years ago and although he loves SF, he has no plans to ever move back to the city. He works near the financial district and takes Caltrain up here. It is quick and easy, and at the end of a foggy summer day in the city he goes home to hot, sunny weather.

Good luck. Feel free to PM if you want more information.

[AnnieW625]

I'd want to live in the city, but probably would live outside of it with little kids. SF is not a kid-friendly city on the whole. It is a very 20something/early30something-acting-like-a-kid-friendly city. ;-) DH and I have several friends with school-aged children in that area - they live in Pacifica, Sunnyvale, Richmond, and Portola Valley. My city-dwelling friends are either childless or have newborns.



Granted like I said I have never lived in the City at all, just spent lots of time there, but I find that the whole bay area in general is very family friendly and progressive. There are parks, kid friendly museums, shopping centers in a few parts of the city, and sports parks. If given the choice I'd rather live in SF proper than down on the Peninsula, which just seems so down right snooty compared to laid back San Francisco.

Also in Berkeley there is a good web site/message board called Berkeley moms (or something like that)

[shilo]

Do you want public schools? Some of the best public schools (i.e., nationally and internationally recognized ones that are so good that families flock to these cities just for the schools) are in the Peninsula/South Bay (Palo Alto, Cupertino). However, those are a long commute from SF (1+ hour on Caltrain or a little less driving but then you have parking issues) and a good 1+ hour drive from your MIL (with no easy public transit option to El Cerrito).




this is where i grew up, went to school, just built a home and am raising my own family. so if you want any info on los altos/sunnyvale/cupertino/mt. view/saratoga area, i can give you the scoop. home prices here are beyond the beyond but it is truly our own little slice of heaven. all 5 of the public high schools in the district just made the US new list of the top 500 schools in the nation and pretty much all of our middle and elementary schools are national blue ribbon schools of excellence. so if schools is your priority, this general area is definitely a place to look.

[C99]

Granted like I said I have never lived in the City at all, just spent lots of time there, but I find that the whole bay area in general is very family friendly and progressive. There are parks, kid friendly museums, shopping centers in a few parts of the city, and sports parks.

Also in Berkeley there is a good web site/message board called Berkeley moms (or something like that)

I definitely think that's true, too. I have a friend who works for DCFS in San Mateo County, so she tells me the scoop on Peninsula schools. Admittedly, I lived in the City before I had kids, in Potrero Hill. I rarely saw kids out and about, but I was probably not really looking for them either, iykwim.

It's funny how different people's experiences are. I found the Peninsula way more laid-back than SF, but maybe that was just because everyone I knew were computer engineers who did all of their shopping at Fry's.

[crl]

Hmm, interesting how different people have different experiences.

In my view, SF (the city itself) is not very child or family friendly. Sure there are parks. A lot of them are still arsenic laced wood structures and many have obvious hazards such as very tall structures within a couple of feet of concrete sidewalks. And there are dogs off-leash in the play areas all the time. Even in the park behind the police academy with a million signs saying dogs must be on leash. I actually had to confront one dog owner whose dog was CHASING my child through a play area to get him to put the dog on leash. My husband had half of a gay couple sneer, "breeder" at him while they were standing in line for dim sum. (DH answered, "actually no" because DS is adopted.) The school district is not that great and the assignment system is insane. Every year people put their houses on the market and leave the city when they lose the school lottery. In comparison to Arlington VA (the only other place I've lived with a child), SF is just not child-centered at all.

Nonetheless, SF has some definite advantages for our family and we plan to stay here for the indefinite future. And in the context of advising someone moving here for work, I wouldn't rule the city out automatically. It's all about trade-offs and priorities.

I've never lived in the Bay Area outside the city so I can only go on what other people say about the schools and neighorhoods outside the city.

Anyway, a renewed offer to give any insight I have on SF neighborhoods, preschools and schools--just pm me.

Catherine

[C99]

True, they're not exclusively residential suburbs, but that's not the same thing as saying they're not kid-friendly.

I misspoke, I am sorry.

[smiles33]

t all 5 of the public high schools in the district just made the US new list of the top 500 schools in the nation and pretty much all of our middle and elementary schools are national blue ribbon schools of excellence. so if schools is your priority, this general area is definitely a place to look.

I grew up down there, too, and my high school is in the top 100 of American public schools. But sadly, homes in my parents' neighborhood (less than 3000 sq ft, 50+ years old, minimally remodeled) were selling at $1.8 million just 3-4 years ago because of the schools. Very wealthy families were buying lots of houses in the neighborhood for the school and just tearing them down to build nice houses. Imagine, a $1.8 million tear-down! :52:

[LexyLou]

My husband was raised in the city and I have quite a few friends that were too but NONE went to public school. I was actually hazard a guess that had my husband went to public school, our paths would probably have not crossed.

I LOVE SF and would live there in a heartbeat if we could but it's not going to happen with me being a SAHM.

Preschools book up years in advance as do the prep schools.

If I could live in the city, based solely on the areas I like (not on kid friendliness) I'd pick Noe Valley, Ingleside Terrace, St. Francis Woods (haha, wouldn't everyone want to live there?), Pac Heights, The Avenues (Sunset Area so pretty foggy), West Portal.

I grew up and am now back living in Danville. It's a little on he further side (40 miles from SF) but plenty of people commute to the city or Silicon Valley (DH does it every day). It's got an awesome school district but it's SUPER suburbia.

My kids go to preschool in Walnut Creek. I LOVE Walnut Creek but you have to make sure you live in the right area. I can't remember which is better but there are two school districts there and you want to be in the better one. Lafayette, Moraga, Orinda are other beautiful towns close and on the BART line. I know a lot of people who live in Pleasant Hill, although I don't know much about that town.

Other options, as mentioned, are living on the pennisula, but again, it's hard to find an area that has good public schools.

I love Foster City and parts of Redwood City. DH's cousin and an aunt live in Portola Valley which is AMAZING but $$$.

There are a ton of places to chose from. You just have to kind of make a list of things that are really important to you to start weeding out places.

[LexyLou]

I grew up down there, too, and my high school is in the top 100 of American public schools. But sadly, homes in my parents' neighborhood (less than 3000 sq ft, 50+ years old, minimally remodeled) were selling at $1.8 million just 3-4 years ago because of the schools. Very wealthy families were buying lots of houses in the neighborhood for the school and just tearing them down to build nice houses. Imagine, a $1.8 million tear-down! :52:

Lowell right? But don't you have to test into Lowell even though it's public? I think that's the one good "public" high school in SF.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I was a Nanny on the Pen, and admittedly pockets are "snooty". Hillsborough, Meno-Atherton, etc. But I like Belmont, San Carlos, etc. The Northern Pen SSF and DC are not as nice, parts are "ghetto". I didn't feel that "The City" was much more progressive but again pocket areas are. I would LOVE to live in Woodside or PV when I win the lotto!

There are areas in ANY city that can work for a particular family, and those that won't. They are not the same for everyone. My parents home was in The (sarcastic) "sunny" Sunset. It was quite different when they bought in the 70's. SF has some "snooty" area too. Pac Heights, Marina, St. Francis, etc. SF hoods have VERY different feels, a few blocks from one another are expensive restaurants & drugs.

West Portal is one of my favs areas to hang out in....

I think visiting and getting a feel for areas are the only way to get a sense of how it fits you and your needs...

[tny915]

Lowell right? But don't you have to test into Lowell even though it's public? I think that's the one good "public" high school in SF.

Actually PP was talking about a school down the Peninsula, but yes, Lowell is a very good SF school. Public, with a competitive admissions and application process. It was just ranked #28 on that US News & World Report list.

I moved out of the city due to school concerns and the lottery, but DH and I were both born and raised there and are definitely moving back someday. As for our personal favorite neighborhoods, Inner Richmond and Inner Sunset have great restaurants and are next to Golden Gate Park with its museums and activities. Parking's an issue in both of those neighborhoods, though.

[[email protected]]

Thanks. I'd love to live in the City but DH isn't so sure. Our oldest is 4 and the whole lottery system scares us, part of the reason we're leaving Los Angeles are the schools.

After looking around, the Peninsula seems too pricey and DH really wants to avoid a long commute.
Does anyone have any info on the East Bay? I 've flagged a couple homes in Albany, Kensington and Montclair to look at when we're in the Bay Area. We're also considering Walnut Creek and Lamorinda. I'm a bit worried about stuffiness in Orinda though.

Thanks,

Christine W

[SnuggleBuggles]

My SIL is in Oakland (a nice part :)) and recommends Albany or Berkeley. She is very much a city gal and wouldn't live out any farther. We have been to visit many times and love her neighborhood (PM if you want to know more).

eta- Alameda is great too. I forgot about the school issue. my brother and SIL send my niece and nephew to private school b/c of how bad the Oakland schools are. They are true supporters of public education and when they lived other places their kids went to public school. They tried Oakland for a week when dn was in kindergarten and quickly pulled him out.

Beth

[crl]

I have friends who live in Rockridge, which is a nicer part of Oakland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockridge,_Oakland,_California They really like their neighborhood a lot. But they don't have any kids in school yet so I can't speak to that piece at all--though I have the impression that the Oakland schools as a whole are not very good.

I've heard good things about the Piedmont schools. But I believe the cost of housing is quite high in Piedmont and I don't think most, if any, of Piedmont is walk to Bart.

Some East Bay school systems (Berkley?) have also gone to a lottery so check on that if you are concerned about a lottery.

Good luck!
Catherine

[AnnieW625]

Thanks. I'd love to live in the City but DH isn't so sure. Our oldest is 4 and the whole lottery system scares us, part of the reason we're leaving Los Angeles are the schools.

After looking around, the Peninsula seems too pricey and DH really wants to avoid a long commute.
Does anyone have any info on the East Bay? I 've flagged a couple homes in Albany, Kensington and Montclair to look at when we're in the Bay Area. We're also considering Walnut Creek and Lamorinda. I'm a bit worried about stuffiness in Orinda though.

Thanks,

Christine W

My dad moved to Moraga (next to Orinda) for college in 1969 and lived in the general area until Jan., 1978 (they moved when I was 7 mos. old). My parents were big BART riders so much so that they only needed one car and once my dad got a job in SF near Union Square and my mom was working in downtown Oakland they rarely used their car at all. They lived in an apartment in downtown Lafayette, which was walking distance to BART but before moving had looked at houses in the area and a car was still needed to get to the BART station from where the nice SFRs are. You mean there are houses in Orinda?! I have never met anyone who has lived there and honestly I don't think there is much more than just one exit off of the freeway and a small movie theater. Schools for Moraga/Lafayette area are very good from what I understand and my Dad's good friend from college is actually the superintendent of the district.

I only vaguely remember hearing about Kensington when my aunt and uncle bought their home in Berkeley in the mid 90s and I believe my uncle said Kensington was more expensive than Berkeley.

Good luck!

[citymama]

Thanks. I'd love to live in the City but DH isn't so sure. Our oldest is 4 and the whole lottery system scares us, part of the reason we're leaving Los Angeles are the schools.

After looking around, the Peninsula seems too pricey and DH really wants to avoid a long commute.
Does anyone have any info on the East Bay? I 've flagged a couple homes in Albany, Kensington and Montclair to look at when we're in the Bay Area. We're also considering Walnut Creek and Lamorinda. I'm a bit worried about stuffiness in Orinda though.

Thanks,

Christine W

Berkeley, Alameda, Albany and Rockridge/Montclair/Piedmont in Oakland would all be good options. Definitely not El Cerrito or Richmond or any other part of Oakland, which all have poorly rated schools. I don't know about places further away than that since that gets too suburban for me.
If you are looking to buy, know that the housing inventory is insanely low in these parts of the East Bay right now. If you're looking to rent, you should be in better shape.

eta: for public school ratings, take a look at www.greatschools.net

[AnnieW625]

I have friends who live in Rockridge, which is a nicer part of Oakland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockridge,_Oakland,_California They really like their neighborhood a lot. But they don't have any kids in school yet so I can't speak to that piece at all--though I have the impression that the Oakland schools as a whole are not very good.

I've heard good things about the Piedmont schools. But I believe the cost of housing is quite high in Piedmont and I don't think most, if any, of Piedmont is walk to Bart.

Some East Bay school systems (Berkley?) have also gone to a lottery so check on that if you are concerned about a lottery.

Good luck!
Catherine

Piedmont schools are good from what I understand. Oakland schools in the Rockridge/Montclair areas are good at least until Jr. High. Then most kids destined for college go to private or Catholic high school. It's been this way for a while (at least since the mid 60s). Skyline High is better than Oakland Technical for public so you might want to check the district boundaries too. My cousins who grew up in Montclair only went to public school for kindergarten (Hillcrest) and then went to Catholic school through 12th grade. Same with my mom and her siblings.

Also I stand corrected and the elementary school my cousins went to in Berkeley is a K-5 and is called Berkeley Arts Magnet. I don't know if it's a lottery school or not.

[MMMommy]

The Peninsula Bay Area is very family friendly, but housing prices are through the roof. Burlingame, Foster City, San Mateo, Belmont, Redwood Shores, and Hillsborough are all nice cities. Foster City has great elementary schools and a middle school, and Hillsborough has a top notch, excellent school district. Foster City is very community oriented with lots of young families and is much more affordable than Hillsborough. But Hillsborough's school district is just so darn good. Lots of excellent schools in Cupertino and Fremont as well, but that would probably be too far of a commute. I personally would stick to the San Francisco/Peninsula side to avoid commute issues and having to cross any bridges to get to work. Bridge closures are not uncommon, causing major traffic issues. If BART is an option, then perhaps a commute to the East Bay is a non-issue.

I've heard from friends that the SF public school system is lottery and that you do not know what you will be getting in terms of which school and where. They said you don't get your "zone" or local area school. You could be assigned to a school completely out of your zone.

[katydid1971]

Hands down Alameda is the best place to live in the Bay Area. Good schools, great beaches, small town feel and so close to Oakland and SF. Your DH could ferry into the city or take the bus to Oakland and Bart in. Prices are better than the city and its more diverse than "Danvanilla" or "Whitey Creek". Good luck to him.

[TwinFoxes]

Thanks. I'd love to live in the City but DH isn't so sure. Our oldest is 4 and the whole lottery system scares us, part of the reason we're leaving Los Angeles are the schools.

After looking around, the Peninsula seems too pricey and DH really wants to avoid a long commute.
Does anyone have any info on the East Bay? I 've flagged a couple homes in Albany, Kensington and Montclair to look at when we're in the Bay Area. We're also considering Walnut Creek and Lamorinda. I'm a bit worried about stuffiness in Orinda though.

Thanks,

Christine W

I lived in the East Bay (UC Berkeley grad) so I know general things about the neighborhoods, but not about the schools. Since you say you live in LA now: Albany is kind of like a smaller Culver City, to put it in LA terms. Montclair is like Beverlywood. Kensington is like the Beverly Hills flatlands (but Kensington isn't in the flatlands). None of these analogies are perfect, but can kind of give you a general sense of what the neighborhoods are like. I don't think Orinda is any more stuffy than Walnut Creek.

North Berkeley is also very nice, as are the Berkeley Hills (ch-ching).


Hands down Alameda is the best place to live in the Bay Area. Good schools, great beaches, small town feel and so close to Oakland and SF. Your DH could ferry into the city or take the bus to Oakland and Bart in. Prices are better than the city and its more diverse than "Danvanilla" or "Whitey Creek". Good luck to him.

Alameda Island is super cute. But "great beaches"? I guess compared to Emeryville! :) Also, the ferry into the city is a pain in the arse, and taking a bus to Oakland and then taking BART into the City would make for a long commute...honestly an express bus would probably be easier (although certainly not easy!) The ferries are a lot more $$ than BART. But it's a nice place, relatively inexpensive, and the weather is nicer than many parts of the Bay Area.

OP, I'm sure we've all done a mighty fine job of confusing you! I think a weekend trip (or two!) up the coast are in order.

[baymom]

The Peninsula Bay Area is very family friendly, but housing prices are through the roof. Burlingame, Foster City, San Mateo, Belmont, Redwood Shores, and Hillsborough are all nice cities. Foster City has great elementary schools and a middle school, and Hillsborough has a top notch, excellent school district. Foster City is very community oriented with lots of young families and is much more affordable than Hillsborough. But Hillsborough's school district is just so darn good. Lots of excellent schools in Cupertino and Fremont as well, but that would probably be too far of a commute. I personally would stick to the San Francisco/Peninsula side to avoid commute issues and having to cross any bridges to get to work. Bridge closures are not uncommon, causing major traffic issues. If BART is an option, then perhaps a commute to the East Bay is a non-issue.

I've heard from friends that the SF public school system is lottery and that you do not know what you will be getting in terms of which school and where. They said you don't get your "zone" or local area school. You could be assigned to a school completely out of your zone.

:yeahthat: Another vote for the Peninsula. Fairly easy commute to SF, excellent schools and everything else PP listed. We :heartbeat: living in the Peninsula!!!

[Alice523]

Please feel free to PM me for more info on Walnut Creek. We've lived here for five years and just bought a house, after searching for a good, long time. We know the area and schools really well now. ;)

I have many friends who take BART into the city every day. We're not as close as Oakland, Berkeley, etc. but it's still convenient.

I would worry about Orinda being stuffy, too, and I don't think WC really compares.. we have a little bit of that, but that population is mostly elsewhere in the area. Danville, Alamo, Lafayette, Orinda and Moraga are all "nicer" areas than WC. Out of the places I've lived (Central Coast, Tahoe, South Bay, and East Bay), this has been my favorite for the community. I love living here.

[LexyLou]

Hands down Alameda is the best place to live in the Bay Area. Good schools, great beaches, small town feel and so close to Oakland and SF. Your DH could ferry into the city or take the bus to Oakland and Bart in. Prices are better than the city and its more diverse than "Danvanilla" or "Whitey Creek". Good luck to him.

HAHA! I've never heard Danvanilla or Whitey Creek! Growing up we called it Deadville because we thought it was so boring.

I'll tell you though, Danville is a whole lot more diverse than it was back in the day when I was growing up. DD's elementary is now only 60% caucasion which is HUGE here. Growing up it was like 90%. My children are half Mexican, so I don't know where they fit in the demographic break down.

[kwc]

Funny to read that people live/ lived so close to where we used to... (Belle... we attended Saint Cecilia's and I still miss it).

We lived in SF for 8 years in West Portal... I do think it is one of the more family-friendly neighborhoods in SF (also Noe and Glen Park) and has good public transit to downtown SF (which are 2 of the 3 reasons we bought there, the 3rd being easy access to the freeway as I work in the San Jose area). The housing there is mostly single family homes and there are a fair number of rentals. It has a great little "village" that is way less snooty/ hipper than thou than many of the others in SF (though it is adjacent to St. Francis Wood... gorgeous and snooty). I miss our church, a few restaurants that treated us (including my kids) like family, the independent toystores and bookstores there, and the park and library. I don't miss the fog, the inability to park anywhere (and the parking tickets), the insanity about schools, and the feeling that most city dwellers (outside of our neighborhood) would rather I had dogs than children. I also don't miss most of my friends, as almost all of them moved to the East Bay or Marin when the older kids were approaching kindergarten (we are now on the Peninsula).

I think the SF schools will probably be a deal killer for you unless you are willing to go private. If we had stayed, we would have tried to get DD into Saint Cecilia's... which was not guaranteed even though both kids were baptized there and we'd been parishioners for years. The only friends I have remaining in the City are all sending their kids to private schools (after many rounds of interviews, etc.).

We are now in Palo Alto (for school and family reasons) and don't really miss City life. If it is on your radar, the schools, parks, resources and weather are amazing but the housing is really pricey for what you get. DHs commute to downtown SF takes between 35-55 minutes depending on traffic (it used to take him 18-45 min to cross town to our house in West Portal) though he has parking at work which can affect your time a fair bit.
Though the distance is farther, the traffic is not nearly as bad as it is from the East Bay (no bridge issue helps a lot).
It definitely feels more laid back than the City for me (kids here may live in million dollar homes but wear Target clothing) but it maybe because we are surrounded by Silicon Valley nerds and I work with a mostly low income population... there are definitely places near here where I go shopping and I feel conspicuously nonblonde/ lacking a Range Rover.

Other places that our SF- commuting friends have moved to with good schools:
East Bay- Piedmont (awesome but $$$), Kensington, Clairmont, Montclair (elementary is good)... for me I would consider Danville, LaMorinda too far and maybe lacking diversity
Marin- Kentfield, parts of San Rafael
Peninsula- Burlingame, Hillsborough, San Carlos, Foster City

[shilo]

It's funny how different people's experiences are. I found the Peninsula way more laid-back than SF, but maybe that was just because everyone I knew were computer engineers who did all of their shopping at Fry's.

LOL. so true. so's the liner a few posts up about living in million dollar houses wearing clothes from target (and shoes from payless ;P). but honestly, things aren't 'snooty' down here in the south part of the peninsula _at all_, IMO. sure there are snooty types, but frankly they're everywhere i've ever lived or visited. for every mom who picks up her kid from preschool decked out in a juicy couture track suit and some designer sunglasses driving a spotless range rover, there's two of us in our less than glam mommy uniforms who's back seat look like a tornado hit it - on a good day. my crowd shops at costco and target and makes macaroni and cheese for dinner despite our zip code ;).

[[email protected]]

I lived in the East Bay (UC Berkeley grad) so I know general things about the neighborhoods, but not about the schools. Since you say you live in LA now: Albany is kind of like a smaller Culver City, to put it in LA terms. Montclair is like Beverlywood. Kensington is like the Beverly Hills flatlands (but Kensington isn't in the flatlands). None of these analogies are perfect, but can kind of give you a general sense of what the neighborhoods are like. I don't think Orinda is any more stuffy than Walnut Creek.

North Berkeley is also very nice, as are the Berkeley Hills (ch-ching).



Alameda Island is super cute. But "great beaches"? I guess compared to Emeryville! :) Also, the ferry into the city is a pain in the arse, and taking a bus to Oakland and then taking BART into the City would make for a long commute...honestly an express bus would probably be easier (although certainly not easy!) The ferries are a lot more $$ than BART. But it's a nice place, relatively inexpensive, and the weather is nicer than many parts of the Bay Area.

OP, I'm sure we've all done a mighty fine job of confusing you! I think a weekend trip (or two!) up the coast are in order.

Long, complicated commutes and iffy schools are deal-breakers. I can handle private school for high school but since we'll have three in at the same time, it will be mighty expensive (might be worth the trade off in property taxes though).

I currently live in Culver City and absolutely love it so I'll definitely have to check out Albany when we're up there this weekend. I just wish there were more 3 bedroom rentals, but we had the same issue when trying to move from Palms into Culver City. Same with Kensington--nothing on Craigslist right now. Also, DH thinks its too cold--seriously, he complains every single time about the weather in El Cerrito.

I know he'd prefer the other side of the Caldecott Tunnel but I'm a Target wearing, Honda driving, lucky to find her shoes in the morning much less match them to her bag kind of SAHM mom and I'll spend more time in the neighborhood than he will.

I've heard some neighborhoods of Lamorinda are less country clubby than others so I'll check them out. Walnut Creek also seems nice. Love all the green space out there. DH and I both had deer and wild turkey in our yards as kids and to be able to have that without fear that the house will burn down in the next wildfire is big. BART is definitely an option b/c DH can work on his laptop during the commute in.

We found a couple of nicer rentals in the South Bay but housing prices are very, very high for neighborhoods with great schools. We want to avoid downgrading when we buy in a year or two so I don't know how much searching we'll do.

DH wants to get the house shopping done and over with this weekend. I think it will take more time. I will be PMing some of you after our trip to get more specific info--like where to find the farmers market, how to meet local moms, preschools, etc.


Thank you so very much,

Christine W
mom to John 11.05, Katie 1.07 and Sarah 5.09

[AnnieW625]

I know he'd prefer the other side of the Caldecott Tunnel but I'm a Target wearing, Honda driving, lucky to find her shoes in the morning much less match them to her bag kind of SAHM mom and I'll spend more time in the neighborhood than he will. I've heard some neighborhoods of Lamorinda are less country clubby than others so I'll check them out. Walnut Creek also seems nice.


Check out Concord too, it's less ritzy feeling than Walnut Creek, but still very nice (try driving east on Yganacio Valley Road, and or zipcode 94521). We have some really good friends who raised their daughter there, and although she could've easily gone to public school because the schools are good they opted for Catholic K-12. I knew other people in college from the same area who went to public schools and had no complaints. I am a Honda driving, and Target shopping mom too and I feel right at home in that area. Again it's the otherside of 680 off of 580, but I'd also look in Livermore or Pleasanton. Very family friendly, close to BART, and you may get a little more for your money.

Have fun this weekend and can't wait to hear a report back!:)

[citymama]

You might also want to consider Pacifica, which is near the Colma BART (and Target!); there are a few BBB moms who live there but none have posted on this thread. You can get a lot more for your money; the major downside is foggy summers, which is too bad for a town with a great beach.

[codex57]

DW's family still lives in the Sunset District. If I had lttle kids, I'd like to line in the following neighborhoods in order of high price down: St Francis Woods, the area near Stonestown Mall and the lake, Sunset, and finally Richmond district.

That said, my friends don't find SF particularly kid friendly. They find being parents to young kids difficult in a variety of ways. One couple specifically said they felt they were branded as breeders and many places/people had a distinct anti-breeder attitude. Which is surprising considering how tolerant SF is supposed to be. If they haven't moved out, many are seriously considering it.

[kozachka]

We currently live in Foster City, which is on the Peninsula. It is a very convenient, both in terms of commute (you can work in the city, East or South Bay and still have a reasonable commute) and proximity to stores (we are close to Costco, Safeway, Lucky, Target, Old Navy, Toys R Us and Hillsdale Shopping Mall) and family friendly. I also like that it's built on flat land and there are lots of parks and canals. But we moved here primarily because of the excellent public elementary schools. It's not the cheapest neighbourhood around but it's worth it. I'd go for quality of life over quantity (size of your home) any time, so it's a personal preference. I also love Menlo Park area. I'd love to live there but would have to get a job in South Bay first to justify the move (I am currently looking for one).

[crl]

To the OP: watch out, coz Albany homes are TINY - we have been looking there for months now, and the standard home seems to be 2BR, 1BA. Most were built by one architect, MacGregor. You might also want to consider Pacifica, which is near the Colma BART (and Target!); there are a few BBB moms who live there but none have posted on this thread. You can get a lot more for your money; the major downside is foggy summers, which is too bad for a town with a great beach.

DH has a colleague who lives in Pacifica. They are very happy with the schools. It is very foggy. (And there's an apartment complex that's about to fall into the ocean, so I'd stay away from ocean front property.)

Catherine

[codex57]

DH has a colleague who lives in Pacifica. They are very happy with the schools. It is very foggy. (And there's an apartment complex that's about to fall into the ocean, so I'd stay away from ocean front property.)

Catherine

Off Topic, but I never understood why celebrities and other rich people insist on buying in Malibu. Why would you voluntarily buy in a place where your house is very likely to fall into the ocean or burn to the ground? In SoCal. There are tons of oceanfront areas. Most with better beaches.

[MMMommy]

We currently live in Foster City, which is on the Peninsula. It is a very convenient, both in terms of commute (you can work in the city, East or South Bay and still have a reasonable commute) and proximity to stores (we are close to Costco, Safeway, Lucky, Target, Old Navy, Toys R Us and Hillsdale Shopping Mall) and family friendly. I also like that it's built on flat land and there are lots of parks and canals. But we moved here primarily because of the excellent public elementary schools. It's not the cheapest neighbourhood around but it's worth it. I'd go for quality of life over quantity (size of your home) any time, so it's a personal preference. I also love Menlo Park area. I'd love to live there but would have to get a job in South Bay first to justify the move (I am currently looking for one).

We used to live in Foster City! We moved to Hillsborough last summer. Foster City is a great city, very family friendly, community-oriented, and very, very convenient. Close to two highways (101 and 92), and so conveniently close to Costco, Target, etc. Great recreation department too with camps, classes, etc. And, it is right smack dab in between San Jose and San Francisco, so it is a good mid-point.

[[email protected]]

Thanks everyone. After sloshing through much of the East Bay, this wet weekend we've settled on a place in Burton Valley (Lafayette, CA). Commute was a big factor in our decision. Door to door, it will take DH 38 minutes each way with BART being almost 30 minutes (so realistically 45 minutes). We only saw 2 places that were closer and both had serious issues --Orinda is much more expensive and the other place was also in Lafayette but 300 ft from Hwy 24. DH is already depressed about the commute--he can bike into work from where we live now--so we quickly ruled out anything farther west.

We also love the neighborhood. Close to great schools, close to a big network of trails. Feels rural but 10 minutes drive to BART and less than 30 minutes to grandma's house. Big sigh of relief that this place is actually bigger and cheaper than what we have now.

Now on to finding a preschool for DS

Christine
mom to J 11.05, Katie 1.07 & Sarah 5.09

[crl]

Thanks for the update! I'm glad you found a place you are happy with. Good luck with the preschool hunt!
Catherine

[AnnieW625]

That's awesome! My parents loved living in Lafayette and even though my parents will never move from where there are now my dad still talks about all of the great memories he has of the 8 yrs. he lived there and my mom also loved the 5/1/2 yrs. she lived there. Good luck and I hope the move goes smoothly! The commute time of 30 minutes on BART isn't bad either, it could easily take an hour to an hour and a half on a regular work day via car, oh and it helps any he can always ride his bike to the BART station (unless you are at the top of the hill) (just don't ever forget your seat there, it will get stolen by some punk high school kids; that happened to my dad even in the 70s when he commuted!)

[codex57]

Congrats! Enjoy your new place!

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

YAY! Glad you found the right fit for you!

[citymama]

That's great!

[TwinFoxes]

Terrific! Thanks for the update! I think you'll love it there. :)