Can anyone run down the basics of "Love & Logic"?

[kep]

It sounds like it might be really helpful for us... Not sure if I should buy the book.

Thanks!

[erosenst]

It's been a while since I've read the book, so hopefully someone else will chime in with a more detailed (and probably more accurate!) summary. There was a lot I liked in it, and some that I thought...went a little far (?)

The big picture: the book focuses on teaching children about choices and consequences. I really like this part, as one of my biggest desires is to teach DD to be a responsible adult, able to make the best choices possible as often as possible. So instead of thinking in terms of 'discipline', which research shows is often ineffective, it talks about logical consequences.

When a child is making bad choices, your job as a parent is to allow and/or enforce a natural consequence as often as possible. This can take lots of forms. A couple of relatively easy ones: "I don't want to put my coat on". "Ok, you don't have to. But it's very cold outside, and you will get cold." End.of.conversation. Assuming it's not truly dangerous, let him go out without a coat, and hopefully get cold. He'll learn that he's uncomfortable. (Or you'll possibly learn that he's really not, and you don't need to enforce the "you have to wear a coat" rule...)

Another: If you can't pick up your toys when I ask, then you're obviously not able to care for them. I'll take them until you can." (And then put toys on a counter/in a closet/whatever until you want to give them back. But no further conversation/power struggle about cleaning them up. Now all I have to say is "do you want meeeee to pick them up??? and they're almost always cleaned up without more discussion.)

You will get better at extending these to backtalking, etc as you have more experience (and there may be examples in the book). But things like "I don't want to listen to you talk like that. If you want to do it, you need to go to your room." 'If you're going to throw your food, you must be done. I'm putting it in the sink."

Hope that helps, at least a little! But it's definitely worth the read IMHO.

[hillview]

I am sure someone who retains info better than I do will chime in. Basics are that you let natural consequences guide your parenting styles and parent without anger or arguing. So if you don't pick up your toys and a younger sibling breaks them, you don't get all upset sympathise "wow that is too bad" you suggest that next time they could put their toy away and that wouldn't happen.

IMO it is geared to older pre-teens and teens. There are some limited take aways for the under 5 set.

Here is their website
http://www.loveandlogic.com/

/hillary

[ray7694]

Our K-5 elementary school adopted the program and I read the Early Childhood version of the book. I highly recommend it as a great resource.

As far as my discipline I use a little from 123 magic, Love and Logic etc.

You have to do what works for your own children and it depends greatly on what type of issues you are having.

[wendmatt]

I do think it's worth reading but it was too Pollyannaish for me It was all about how one consequence would make everything perfect after that. I listened to the cd and it was annoying after a while, but there are definately some good premises about helping children make their own decisions.

[lalasmama]

I believe whole heartedly in L&L, though I suck at implimenting it!

First and foremost, don't read the book! Go to a workshop/class. It made soooo much more sense hearing it instead of reading it!

As PP said, its largely about allowing choices and *logical* concequences. In the case of the "Put on your coat", you say, "Its cold outside. I'm grabbing a coat, would you like your's?" If they say no, that's fine. When they get outside and whine that they are cold, feel free to commisserate with them, but *DON'T* bail them out by pulling out their coat. "Wow, yeah, Joey, it is really cold out today. I get chilly when I forget my coat too." The end. No more talk. And when Joey says, "Next time, I need my coat" or when he doesn't say it, but just does it next time, you reinforce the good behavior--and their thought processing-- by saying something to the effect of "Good thinking!"

Of course there's times when there's not a choice. Let's take bedtime. There's no choice about bedtime. Depending on the age of the child, they have 2 stratagies (one for younger kids, and older kids). We use the young one still. The young one is also known as "how many choices on the way to bed?" Seriously, start thinking about it. Here's a short list:

Walk upstairs or be carried?

Crawl or walk? (Be carried on back, or ride a "horsey", or on Mom's hip?)

Pink pajamas or green?

Socks on or off?

Bathroom time! Potty or brush teeth first?

Blue toothbrush or yellow?

Mom brushes or kid?

Rinse cup: orange or red?

2 short books or 1 long one?

Read on bed or on floor?

Kid climb in bed or parent place child in bed?

Prayers in bed or out of bed?

Hugs/kisses in or out of bed? (Before or after story?)

Sleep in bed or on the floor?

1 blanket or 2?

Night light on or off?

You never gave the child the choice of bedtime, but they had all those other choices, so they are less likely to balk at what your choice is (your choice is its child's bedtime!). Of course, if child dilly-dallies, then a quick "Oh, okay, it must be time for me to make a choice! I choose ____."

The big kid version says in room at __ pm (parents choose), because after __pm, its grown-ups time. Tuck kids in but don't require lights out or tv/computers/ipods off. Remind them that you will be in to awake them at __ am, and leave it at that. 1 or 2 days of tiredness during the day will get them into bed at a proper hour. When this happens, again, feel free to comment "Oh, yeah, when I stay up too late, I have a hard time getting up too, but, regardless, its time to get up!" and when they say they want to go to bed at a reasonable hour, tell them "Good thinking!"

A lot of L&L is just making the kids think for themselves. If they lose friends because they boss them, that's not your problem, its their's, so you don't tell them what to do. If they ask for suggestions, you can give them--"Well, some kids like to be told what to do, and other kids don't. What do you think your friends like? What do you think you could do to be different?" or such.

One of my favorite parts of it is the respect. Lala is a screamer when she gets mad. Sending her to her room without an explanation didn't do anything. Now, I tell her she needs to get to her room, that our family rule is no hurting, and since she's hurting my ears, she needs to make her noise somewhere where its not hurting me. (Humorously, a time or two, when she's been really mad and a stinker, she will scream from her room "I'm screaming because I'm mad and you hurt my feelings telling me to clean my room, so I'm going to hurt your ears by screaming!")

The whole system is about respecting the child as a seperate being. Respecting them as people with brains, with thoughts and choices. Of course, being the parent, sometimes your way is the correct way, but, generally, if the child has the experience of making the wrong choice, they will tend to listen/ask instead of doing the polar opposite of mom.

Oh, and they do a lot of reminding parents about age-appropriate expectations. I was expecting Lala to clean her room when asked (her choices: clean your room, pay me [with a toy] to clean it). Realistically, at 3 years and 9 months, she needed directions-- "Put away your ponies. Now your dollclothes. Now your pet shop" etc.

I can't rave enough about the classes, though! Our church actually made them into a Sunday School class option.

They have several "variations". Some are made for church-related/Christian classes, some are "mainstream" (no talk about the Bible), and some are school/teacher based. They also have dedicated books for special areas--preschoolers, teens, etc.