Thanks, mamas.

[Momof3Labs]

I appreciate the support and ideas.:22:

[egoldber]

Well, I assume he needs some recovery time from 24 hours on. But I think you could reasonable expect him to do, for example, the household shopping and basic household errands during that time. My DH does this even though he works from home. I make a list and he shops, goes to the bank, picks up prescriptions, etc.

[Momof3Labs]

Well, I assume he needs some recovery time from 24 hours on.

Yes. I should add that he gets to sleep while at work - they can sleep from 8pm until 6am, though obviously need to get up if there is a call. Some nights he gets more sleep than I do, some nights he does not. It's rare, though, that he gets less than 4-5 hours of sleep at night (which is pretty much the most I've gotten for the last 7 months).

[DrSally]

Well, after 24 hours on, like Beth said, some time down, and then 1/2 and 1/2 sounds very reasonable to me. Is he seeing it like "his" weekend, where he gets the full time off? I mean there's a list of things that need to be done to keep a house running smoothly. If he could start off with being responsible for one thing--grocery shopping for instance, maybe that would help ease the transition into doing more. But, yeah, if he has no childcare duties or work duties, then household errands would be the perfect thing for him to do. It's so nice to get those done wo/children in tow, he should take advantage of that time.

[hillview]

What are some examples of what you want him to do. For me running laundry, shopping, fixing some things are all reasonable. Have you asked him to give a list of things he'd LIKE to do. For example my DH isn't very good at shopping for food but does laundry very well. He is good at longer projects (putting shelves up) but this takes him a long time.

It is fair to expect a 50/50 split once he gets some rest.
/hillary

[bubbaray]

He's a firefighter. Aren't they all awesome cooks and great at home maintenance stuff? I'm kinda joking, kinda not. I know a few and they all have 2nd jobs (like construction stuff, trades, etc), and their homes are immaculate, they do all the cooking, etc.

I used to wish DH was a FF, but after having him work shifts during the Olympics, not so much. He's a PITA when he's not working and *I* am, so I totally relate. If that were our normal, you can bet your boots he'd have a pretty long list of stuff.

HTH

[Momof3Labs]

Thanks, mamas.

[buddyleebaby]

Well, I definitely think he should be pulling his fair weight around the home. The thought of being at home doing nothing kid related and nothing home related on a consistent basis sounds crazy to me.

My husband is a FD Medic. He is at work four days straight, home for three. In those three, he gets up early with the kids, and on his own handles any household chores that need to be done such as laundry and dishes so that I can have a break after being "on" for days at a time. He will clean up the living room and kitchen. He never cleans the playroom and that always falls to me. I do rotate toys and switch the room around a lot and I think he just considers it my territory. He drives DD to school. I do the shopping most of the time. We switch off doing bathtime and bedtime, and making meals. I usually use the days he is home to tackle bigger projects I have a hard time doing with three children hanging on me. Sometimes no one does much of anything and we will just go somewhere fun as a family. But, he doesn't hang around and do whatever he pleases because he works long hours out of the house. He would never use that as an excuse to do nothing.

I guess that is my long-winded way of saying that if it were my husband I would expect him to do his part without being asked or specifically directed. Have you spoken to your husband in general terms about doing more of the household chores? Does he seem willing but *needs* direction? (Some people do!) Or is he just content to let you do everything? I will admit that if I had a full time job and my husband gave me a list of chores to complete on my day off, I would be very annoyed. Then again I hope I would never put my husband in a situation where he felt he had to do so.

:hug: to you. It sounds very frustrating.

[Momof3Labs]

thanks, mamas.

[California]

Reading this, it seems to me like you are looking for validation for something you already know is true-- yes, he should be helping out more and no, you aren't asking anything unusual or unfair. It sounds like you've tried lots of different ways to communicate this and it's just not getting through. That must be so frustrating! Sometimes I think spouses really just don't get how much work it is to run a household. And in that role to be responsible for every child-related area, including decision making, playdates, appointments, errands, schedule keeping, and just making sure on a day to day basis that the child is clothed, fed and clean. Hugs to you because you are trying to accomplish a lot.

[bubbaray]

Lori, what about counselling on this issue?

[buddyleebaby]

Reading this, it seems to me like you are looking for validation for something you already know is true-- yes, he should be helping out more and no, you aren't asking anything unusual or unfair. It sounds like you've tried lots of different ways to communicate this...

What she said.
:hug: It's not right and I hope he steps up.

[Jo..]

if he has 24 hrs on/48 off...just for example. he works Monday has Tues Wed off. Works thurs has fri sat off...

to me, it would be fair that he have at least 12 hours of down time/sleep time after a 24 hour shift. Which still leaves 1.5 days between shifts. You work 3 days per week, he works (roughly) 3 days per week.

I would expect a 50/50 split of household chores.

[Momof3Labs]

Lori, what about counselling on this issue?

BTDT. And here we are.

[happymom]

I would also be so frustrated if DH had all that free time and wasn't using it to contribute to household stuff. I'm not sure I understand his position on this though- how does he feel about it? I don't think you've mentioned WHY he is not helping out. Does he just not "get it", or does he think he is entitled to relax, or...?

:hug: Sorry you're having a rough time.

[Momof3Labs]

thanks, mamas.

[caheinz]

How about some sort of deal... for any time that he has that is his time -- not working, not sleeping, not doing things around the house or with the kids -- you get an equal amount. Every week, it should even out. Can it be couched in terms like that? Because it seems like there are two issues here -- one is that he isn't doing his fair share, but the other is that you aren't getting any breaks from the sounds of it...

He has four kids now, including a set of twins. It's time to either help out, or get another job to pay for more help for you.

[brgnmom]

I honestly can't figure out why he wouldn't want to spend part of that time helping to get things done around the house. Every time we discuss it (or fight about it), he can't articulate why. Although he is quite subject to inertia - he has a hard time getting started on projects of all types both big and small, and a hard time finishing what he's started.

Thanks for the hugs and support, gals. It's been tough times around here lately, and I know that my lack of sleep doesn't help.

Sorry that you're going through this. Everyone here has provided you with great advice.

my DH went through a series of overnight work shifts at the hospital last month (7 days overnight, followed by a 3-day weekend X2 during the month), and he was exhausted afterwards. I usually leave our apartment with my DS and give him the peace & quiet to catch up on sleep when he is post-call. I remember it feeling overwhelming for me though since I was the sole caretaker of our DS and had to manage everything else in our household. For my DH, I didn't expect him to help out when he was post-call or at all during the week of overnight shifts. I cooked every meal for him and pampered him, so that he could make it through the tough shifts.

But now that he doesn't have any overnight shifts in the near future, he does help out with the "little things" -- like cleaning all the dishes after dinner. Since your DH is having a hard time articulating why he isn't helping out as much, maybe you can encourage him to help out with even just those small tasks? I notice also that when I show my appreciation for the help I receive from my DH, it reinforces that behavior and he is more likely to repeat it again.

I hope that your DH can help you out more -- it's challenging since you are both working outside the home and he has a demanding schedule, making it tough for you to balance things on your end with your family with 4 kids. :hug:

[TwinFoxes]

I honestly can't figure out why he wouldn't want to spend part of that time helping to get things done around the house. Every time we discuss it (or fight about it), he can't articulate why. Although he is quite subject to inertia - he has a hard time getting started on projects of all types both big and small, and a hard time finishing what he's started...

I'll preface by saying I have several very close family members who are/were in the FD...so I've seen the schedule closeup. Bubbaray's generalization was spot on. They all had side contracting gigs and/or cooked and had clean houses. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to pull his share. Obviously on nights there are lots of calls, or tough calls (emotionally or physically) you'd cut him slack. But I know some of those nights it's watching tv, going to bed, and going home.

I thnk your DH isn't chipping in because he doesn't want to, and the trade off is putting up with you hounding him. Most people wouldn't like that tradeoff but your DH is ok with it. At this point I don't see him changing. :( I think you'll either have to hire more help, or you will have to cut back somehow. You can't keep up that pace.

[JTsMom]

Lori, in the time I've "known" you, I don't think I've ever once seen you complain about something. Ever. That alone tells me things must not be fair. The things that you listed sound more than reasonable to me.

I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. It's not right. :hug: Does he say he wants to fix it, but then just doesn't make it happen, or does he think he's already doing enough?

If you can swing hiring someone to help, I think that would probably be the quickest path to relief. I'd also make some time for yourself a priority (and I don't mean time to run errands).

[egoldber]

I honestly can't figure out why he wouldn't want to spend part of that time helping to get things done around the house.

So I am just freely speculating here with no idea whether or not these things appply to your DH.....

When I have a problem "getting started" on something, it's generally because I find the task incredibly overwhelming so I just avoid it rather than deal with it. This can also be a symptom of anxiety or depression. Many, many people have untreated low level anxiety and/or depression which can often manifest itself as low drive or "laziness".

I know that when I went back to work full time, my DH had a hard time at first with what I thought were simple tasks: grocery shopping, etc. Things I just knew (brands and sizes to buy) were totally not on his radar. So when I put on a grocery list "applesauce", he would face the wall of applesauce in the grocery store and not know what to buy. So even though I found it incredibly frustrating I had to literally write out "Motts natural (unsweetened) applesauce, the small cups for lunches" before he knew what to get. Now I don't have to do that. But I did for several months. :dizzy: So perhaps there is some sense of not knowing what to do so therefor why bother?

I dunno, but it's all I've got. :hug:

[mamicka]

Lori, in the time I've "known" you, I don't think I've ever once seen you complain about something. Ever. That alone tells me things must not be fair. The things that you listed sound more than reasonable to me.

:yeahthat:

When I have a problem "getting started" on something, it's generally because I find the task incredibly overwhelming so I just avoid it rather than deal with it. This can also be a symptom of anxiety or depression. Many, many people have untreated low level anxiety and/or depression which can often manifest itself as low drive or "laziness".

I know that when I went back to work full time, my DH had a hard time at first with what I thought were simple tasks: grocery shopping, etc. Things I just knew (brands and sizes to buy) were totally not on his radar. So when I put on a grocery list "applesauce", he would face the wall of applesauce in the grocery store and not know what to buy. So even though I found it incredibly frustrating I had to literally write out "Motts natural (unsweetened) applesauce, the small cups for lunches" before he knew what to get. Now I don't have to do that. But I did for several months. :dizzy: So perhaps there is some sense of not knowing what to do so therefor why bother?

Pigging backing on this, what might work is instead of making a list *for him*, make a list of all the household things that need to get done on a monthly, weekly, daily basis. Then it would be something that you both follow & he might realize just how much work is necessary to keep the household running & would pitch-in more.

I'm sorry you're dealing with.:hug:

[California]

So you tried counseling, and you are still stuck here?

It sounds to me like he knows exactly what you are asking. And he knows he's not being fair. And he's still choosing to act this way. He's put you in a very, very tough spot. I really don't have suggestions on that one. How did it go in counseling? What did he/she suggest might help?

[wolverine2]

I wish.

I'd love if he could get the sheets washed and back on the beds, get the bathrooms (2.5 baths) wiped down (toilets, sinks, mirrors, floors), clean up dog poop in the yard and get a non-carryout, non-fast food dinner on the table both nights. And get a few small errands run. So, let's say, 6-7 hours of stuff if he's moving kinda slow?

I hear you on this. My DH is actually a SAHD, and he is with DS2 all day long (although he naps for 3 hrs in the afternoon). Somehow though, I'm still the one who (in general) cooks and cleans. I've tried all the things you mentioned as well. I've come to accept that there are some things that he hates and will not do (grocery shopping) and some that we've agreed to (him cooking dinner occasionally). But I look at that list above, and I can't see my DH agreeing to that even though he's home every day. I think it's reasonable though. But if he doesn't, I would just say that you need that stuff to be done and will hire someone to do it if he won't. :)

The other problem I have is that DH just doesn't SEE what needs to be done. I've had the same overwhelmed tears when trying to talk to him about how the condition of the house affects my well-being, and I don't have time to get it all done. Somehow now I've just let a lot of that go, and we seem to be in a better place, but I'm not sure he's doing more. i did tell him a while ago I wouldn't do his laundry anymore.

[egoldber]

Do you have a housecleaner?

[megs4413]

Perhaps this should be on the BP but I need some insight. I need to figure out if I'm being reasonable or not because we are at a point where this is really affecting our marriage.

DH works full time as a firefighter, so 24 hrs on and 48 hrs off. I work 3 full days a week at a pretty high-pressure job, though two of the days I work at my home office (not less pressure, just eliminates the 1hr+ commute those days). We overlap work one day a week (which day changes week to week), so rather than cobbling together some childcare solution on only the days we need it (tried that, it was VERY stressful) we have a nanny for those three days. So, DH has two full days (18 hrs) every week where he is not at work and is not responsible for anything kid-related. We've talked a few times about him picking up a second job on his days off, but his options are pretty limited, and tend to be pretty low paying ($10/hr or less before taxes). I'm okay with him not working a second job.

So, if this were your spouse, what would you consider to be a reasonable split of his time? 18 hrs, split between household stuff (where I get some say in what he does - a la honey-do list) and his me-time (which he totally needs and deserves)?

could you clarify...are you saying he has "regular business hours" free two days a week, adding up to 18 hours? as in, you get home on those evenings and you all are home together at that point, nanny is gone? i am confused about this part of it....

anyway, the truth is, if there's work to be done, it has to be done. "me time" can come before some things, but other things are MUST do's. figure out what your MUST do's are...try to come up with a list so he has SPECIFIC tasks to do with some of that time...as soon as those NEEDS are fulfilled, he can spend his time how he wants. if it's causing marital discord, he HAS to change it, whether he sees it as reasonable right now or not. JMO!

[Momof3Labs]

thanks, mamas

[Momof3Labs]

could you clarify...are you saying he has "regular business hours" free two days a week, adding up to 18 hours? as in, you get home on those evenings and you all are home together at that point, nanny is gone? i am confused about this part of it....

Yes, he is free (off duty) 8am-5pm two days a week while I am working but the nanny is here, she is fully responsible for the four kids. On days I work at home, I join the family at 5-5:30pm. On days I go into the office (one of those two days, most weeks), I don't get home until about 6:30-6:45pm, so he has fed the kids dinner and is most of the way through the bedtime routine by then.

[Momof3Labs]

thanks, mamas

[JTsMom]

Is there any chance he is depressed, or has some sort of issue going on? Or do you just need us to form a posse to come kick him in the ass? ;) Is he like this about other stuff?

[LBW]

My experience isn't a positive example AT ALL, but I doubt there's anything you can do to change his behavior. He's only going to change once HE decides to.

All you can really do is work on making your own life more manageable. Can you have the nanny come one extra day so that you have that time to yourself? If your budget allows it, I'd do this PLUS the cleaning service. Do you have grocery delivery service that you can set up to cut down on the weekend errands? Maybe once he sees the "cost" of his slacking, he'll start pulling his own weight.

Hugs, and good luck. It really, really sucks to be the only responsible adult in the house.

[megs4413]

No cleaning lady right now. We've done it before but had a hard time finding some good when we moved a few years ago. It was on DH's list to find someone new (talking to neighbors for references, etc) and didn't happen (well, the one person we tried, neither of us liked). I love having a cleaning person but hate trying to find someone that I like and trust around my house. Also, preparing for the cleaning person the night before is a lot of work that would fall 100% on my plate. That's a lot of excuses, isn't it. So, let's say we hire the cleaning person. Now we're paying a nanny 3 days a week, plus a cleaning lady, and he has more reason to pi$$ away 18 hours every week? The more I think about it, the more I think we need to go the cleaning lady route, but he needs to start doing some side work on his days off to cover the cost. I don't know what he'll do as his options haven't been very good in the past, plus the job market isn't the greatest, but maybe it's time.

We "talked" last night again about this. He's always agreeable when we discuss this (including with the counselor) but then doesn't follow through. His solution was to quit his job, let the nanny go, get a cleaning lady and he'd stay home with the kids. Like he'd get any more done while taking care of four kids. And then we'd lose his income, pushing me to full-time (which is 50-60 hrs/week minimum in my field, plus 2.5hrs of commuting every day), and still leaving me to do all the household management stuff in my few hours off. Had my mother heard my response to that suggestion, she would have washed my mouth out with soap...

And it's not a case of him not knowing what to do. He's done these tasks plenty of times and can handle them just fine. He just chooses not to do them many weeks. It's really like dealing with a moody teenager - and lordy knows I don't need another kid around here right now...

i have to wonder if he's depressed....i'm sorry, you're in a tough situation. if he doesn't want to protect your relationship, you can't make him. as far as i can tell, though, all this behavior is going to lead to is bitterness and resentment from you.

he's got to decide what he wants. HUGS!

[ezcc]

Not sure if this will help, but both dh and I are pretty bad at getting things done around the house. Two things that have helped recently-

-for dh, I have found that I really need to work on something small and remind him constantly- he now loads and starts the dishwasher every night before he comes upstairs, but I had to remind him to do it FOREVER. I just picked something daily and small that he could do and worked on that one thing. Now it's more of a habit- time to pick something else I guess!

-for me- I am a sahm and we got rid of our cleaning lady about a year ago since both kids are in school at least some of the time. I have a pretty good routine worked out, but found myself dreading it and putting it off. I now pay myself to do this work. I don't always spend it, but every week that money now goes to me-to spend on something or save for something bigger. Maybe you could try something like this with your dh? I have access to the $ in our budget and don't really need the money (and like I said, I often don't even spend it-it goes back in the household funds) but somehow telling myself that I am getting $80 when I am washing the floors makes it feel less like drudgery.

Also, I don't think your expectations are unreasonable AT ALL, but I am trying to be more forgiving of my husband's faults (and believe me there are plenty!)