BBB Mini Census: What is your racial background?

[arivecchi]

See poll. You can expand on your answer here if you would like. I'm sure the poll is not perfect so feel free to answer here and not answer the poll if you don't like the options provided. :)

[momof2girls]

I'm half white half Asian

[m448]

Dominican so other hispanic.

[weech]

Half white, half black

[Karinyc]

Just curious, if you are black (but of hispanic/spanish origin) or white (but of hispanic origin) how would you ask posters to vote?

I ask because the census separates those questions (race and ethnicity). I also view them differently and voted twice on the poll.

[caleymama]

White (same for DH and DDs)

[arivecchi]

Just curious, if you are black (but of hispanic/spanish origin) or white (but of hispanic origin) how would you ask posters to vote?

I ask because the census separates those questions (race and ethnicity). I also view them differently and voted twice on the poll. Answer as you prefer. :) This is not a scientific poll like the actual census. I just thought it would be interesting to get an idea of the racial make-up of the BBB posters.

[AnnieW625]

So glad you posted this I was just thinking about this yesterday. For the census our race is Caucasian. Hispanics are considered Caucasiann per the census because it is not it's own race.

Me (White): I am 1/2 Irish, 1/4 Austrian, and 1/4 everything else (Scotch, Dutch, German, Swedish, and English)

DH: 1/2 Mexican, 1/2 French Canadian

DD: 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Mexican, 1/4 French Candian, 1/4 everything else from me listed above)

[m448]

Hmmmm, are you sure that the census defaults hispanic to caucasian? I think some sort of blend would be more appropriate.

[MelissaTC]

I filled out my form on Tuesday and I thought it did default to White but not entirely sure.

In any case, I am Puerto Rican. My Dad was born on the island and both of my Mom's parents are Puerto Rican.

DH is 1/2 Italian, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 German.

M is his own little United Nations. :)

[egoldber]

This is not a scientific poll like the actual census.

Well, by definition, a census is not a poll. A poll is a sample that tries to accurately represent a larger group. A census is a count, an enumeration, of every member of a population.


are you sure that the census defaults hispanic to caucasian

They do not. Race and ethnicity are carried separately on the data files, but they are also combined in various ways (Hispanic white, non-Hispanic white, Hispanic black, non-Hispanic black) should researchers choose to use those combined variables. They can also combine the data in any way they like.

You can find census data on-line at http://factfinder.census.gov

(Without any identifying info, of course.)

[lchang25000]

Chinese/Taiwanese

[arivecchi]

Well, by definition, a census is not a poll. A poll is a sample that tries to accurately represent a larger group. A census is a count, an enumeration, of every member of a population.



They do not. Race and ethnicity are carried separately on the data files, but they are also combined in various ways (Hispanic white, non-Hispanic white, Hispanic black, non-Hispanic black) should researchers choose to use those combined variables. They can also combine the data in any way they like.

You can find census data on-line at http://factfinder.census.gov

(Without any identifying info, of course.) LOL. I need to remember to consult with our resident expert before posting a poll. :6:

[BabyMine]

White/Caucasian

Mix of German, Irish, Swedish, and Polish.

[egoldber]

I need to remember to consult with our resident expert before posting a poll

No no no! Your poll is fun. :)

I am just a data geek. :p

[arivecchi]

No no no! Your poll is fun. :)

I am just a data geek. :p No worries! I love to learn about this stuff! :)

[TwinFoxes]

I'm black. :)

OP, you didn't answer!

[m448]

Thanks Beth. I knew this being a poll that ethnicity is usually lumped in with race but never thought the census would default hispanics to any specific race.

I'm a hispanic mutt pretty much like all of us across latin america. It's just that we all present different genotypes but the big joke is that some people believe to be white when if you look back far enough we all have a little blend of everything. For that matter my husband is a white mutt. From the south for many generations but same goes for him.

[poppy]

This poll bothers me a bit. Why should it matter? I'm not that PC, I'm usually not that sensitive but the way you set up this poll does irk me. Maybe b/c I'm pregnant but....

Also, if you're going to lump people together by region, Koreans and Japanese are northern east Asian but Vietnamese are south east Asian. Why do Chinese/Taiwanese people get their own category? I am aware of their population but this isn't a real census. IF it were, they'd be in trouble and seriously in need of a geography lesson.

I want to say my ethnicity shouldn't matter, I'm American, even if I'm not White.
Funny, ppl are always saying, "Why can't we just be Americans", but then ppl make it clear, it does matter.

I know you probably didn't have this intention when setting up this poll but I find it bothersome since I enjoy coming to this site. Things like this make it less so.

[arivecchi]

I'm black. :)

OP, you didn't answer! I thought everyone knew! I am Puerto Rican.

[arivecchi]

This poll bothers me a bit. Why should it matter? I'm not that PC, I'm usually not that sensitive but the way you set up this poll does irk me. Maybe b/c I'm pregnant but....

Also, if you're going to lump people together by region, Koreans and Japanese are northern east Asian but Vietnamese are south east Asian. Why do Chinese/Taiwanese people get their own category? I am aware of their population but this isn't a real census. IF it were, they'd be in trouble and seriously in need of a geography lesson.

I want to say my ethnicity shouldn't matter, I'm American, even if I'm not White.
Funny, ppl are always saying, "Why can't we just be Americans", but then ppl make it clear, it does matter.

I know you probably didn't have this intention when setting up this poll but I find it bothersome since I enjoy coming to this site. Things like this make it less so. I am sorry that this upset you. I was just trying to mimic the census questions. The fact that I have a different ethnicity than others does not negate the fact that I am 100% American as well. I don't understand why stating what your ethnicity is bothers some people. I had to lump some categories together because there was not enough room in the poll, not because I do not know my geography.

[smiles33]

This poll bothers me a bit. Why should it matter? I'm not that PC, I'm usually not that sensitive but the way you set up this poll does irk me. Maybe b/c I'm pregnant but....

Also, if you're going to lump people together by region, Koreans and Japanese are northern east Asian but Vietnamese are south east Asian. Why do Chinese/Taiwanese people get their own category? I am aware of their population but this isn't a real census. IF it were, they'd be in trouble and seriously in need of a geography lesson.

I want to say my ethnicity shouldn't matter, I'm American, even if I'm not White.
Funny, ppl are always saying, "Why can't we just be Americans", but then ppl make it clear, it does matter.

I know you probably didn't have this intention when setting up this poll but I find it bothersome since I enjoy coming to this site. Things like this make it less so.

I agree with you that race and ethnicity should not be the factors that one should rely on for major decisions like who to hire, where you want to live (e.g., only in all-white neighborhoods), who to marry, etc. I think we all want to be judged on what we bring to the table, but I think race/ethnicity often influences cultural values, so it still plays an important role for some people. I'm not even getting into the historical and social "baggage" associated with being of a minority race.

Personally, I identify as an American of Chinese descent. Born here, raised here, but my parents' heritage as immigrants DOES affect my outlook and being a visible minority has affected my life and outlook as well. If I grew up in China and only lived in China, I'd be a different person as I'd be part of the "normal" mainstream majority. At the same time, I think I share many similar values as my fellow BBBers because I believe we're all North Americans (I know a few visible Canadians are on here, but not sure if we have Mexicans, too). I happen to like this poll because I think race/heritage sometimes has a big influence on folks and it's nice to see the BBB demographic.

On a separate note, as someone who also identifies as an Asian Pacific American (which I view as a political identity uniting Americans of various Asian heritages): if I had created the poll, I would have separated East Asians from Southeast Asians just because the history of immigrants from these regions are very different (e.g., refugees fleeing war-torn Southeast Asia don't have the same outlook/background as highly educated immigrants who CHOSE to come to America). For example: Chinese/Japanese/Korean/other East Asians and then Vietnamese/Cambodian/Hmong/other Southeast Asians. I'd also include Filipinos (who aren't listed here). But this isn't a scientific survey and it's just for fun! :)

[poppy]

I am sorry that this upset you. I was just trying to mimic the census questions. The fact that I have a different ethnicity than others does not negate the fact that I am 100% American as well. I don't understand why stating what your ethnicity is bothers some people.

Mainly b/c you lump ppl together w/o any concern as to region, making it seem like it doesn't matter. Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, who cares? If you give Chinese ppl their own category, then make it consistent. At least lump ppl together by the proper region.

I suppose it bothers me, b/c I've had ppl say, What are you? Start guessing all kinds of Asian races and then say Oh, aren't they all the same? Once I had to tell some idiot who thought Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese were all the same, that we weren't. I told them that yeah, we're the same, just like Russians and the French--since you are all White. We are separate ppl and if you set it up so it makes sense geographically...then it probably wouldn't bother me as much.... but this has no rhyme or reason and makes me feel that it doesn't matter, let's just lump these countries together since they are all Asian, and it's convenient. Do you know how far Vietnam is from Japan and Korea? It's not even in the same ballpark. Well, we're all Asian, so I guess, who cares. I grew up with this crap.

[arivecchi]

Mainly b/c you lump ppl together w/o any concern as to region, making it seem like it doesn't matter. Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, who cares? If you give Chinese ppl their own category, then make it consistent. At least lump ppl together by the proper region.

I suppose it bothers me, b/c I've had ppl say, What are you? Start guessing all kinds of Asian races and then say Oh, aren't they all the same? Once I had to tell some idiot who thought Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese were all the same, that we weren't. I told them that yeah, we're the same, just like Russians and the French--since you are all White. We are separate ppl and if you set it up so it make sense geographically... but this has no rhyme or reason and makes me feel that it doesn't matter, let's just lump these countries together. Do you know how far Vietnam is from Japan and Korea? It's not even in the same ballpark. Well, we're all Asian, so I guess, who cares. I grew up with this crap. Ok. :6: I hope the rest of your day is better.

[poppy]

I agree with you that race and ethnicity should not be the factors that one should rely on for major decisions like who to hire, where you want to live (e.g., only in all-white neighborhoods), who to marry, etc. I think we all want to be judged on what we bring to the table, but I think race/ethnicity often influences cultural values, so it still plays an important role for some people. I'm not even getting into the historical and social "baggage" associated with being of a minority race.

Personally, I identify as an American of Chinese descent. Born here, raised here, but my parents' heritage as immigrants DOES affect my outlook and being a visible minority has affected my life and outlook as well. If I grew up in China and only lived in China, I'd be a different person as I'd be part of the "normal" mainstream majority. At the same time, I think I share many similar values as my fellow BBBers because I believe we're all North Americans (I know a few visible Canadians are on here, but not sure if we have Mexicans, too). I happen to like this poll because I think race/heritage sometimes has a big influence on folks and it's nice to see the BBB demographic.

On a separate note, as someone who also identifies as an Asian Pacific American (which I view as a political identity uniting Americans of various Asian heritages): if I had created the poll, I would have separated East Asians from Southeast Asians just because the history of immigrants from these regions are very different (e.g., refugees fleeing war-torn Southeast Asia don't have the same outlook/background as highly educated immigrants who CHOSE to come to America). For example: Chinese/Japanese/Korean/other East Asians and then Vietnamese/Cambodian/Hmong/other Southeast Asians. I'd also include Filipinos (who aren't listed here). But this isn't a scientific survey and it's just for fun! :)

I'm more offended by how this "census" is set up rather than the idea of knowing ppl's races/ethnicity. I feel that ppl are just thrown together and we're all the same, so who cares?

[poppy]

Ok. :6: I hope the rest of your day is better.

Thank you. My day was fine until I saw your census. Maybe a geography lesson would help.

[elektra]

I am white. DH is 1/4 Hispanic (Mexican), 1/4 Filipino, and 1/2 white. I haven't opened my census form yet but I'm wondering how it accounts for mixed race/ethnicity.
I had some facebook friends make some comments about being offended about the census race questions and that they put "other" or wrote in "American".
It's funny because after reading Beth's comment in a previous thread about how the info can be really helpful to give the data analysts the level of detail that they need, it made me less inclined to look at it any other way than just data gathering. So the panties on this girl will probably not be in a bunch over it. ;)
I think there is no perfect way to classify all of the groups. It's interesting the Hispanic category is such a defining one.

[edurnemk]

Frankly, I think some of the categories in the poll point more towards nationality/ethnicity than race. There's a lot of mix up around those issues. For example I'm white, my family is European (from several countries), but I was born in Mexico, so many people immediately classify me as Hispanic when it comes to race, which is not correct. (Even though I'm more than 1/2 Spanish, that is considered Latin, not Hispanic, they're different groups).

There can be many different racial groups within one country, any country, so I wouldn't use a group of countries as a classification of race. I know it's a delicate subject and not something I dwell too much on. Just wanted to point out that race, nationality and ethnicity are different concepts that are easily mixed up.

[arivecchi]

Thank you. My day was fine until I saw your census. Maybe a geography lesson would help. I was obviously not trying to offend anyone. As I stated in my initial response to you, I am sorry I upset you. Thank for insulting me though.

[niccig]

I'm white, but like a previous poster, I'm a bit of everything. I'm Australian, my father's family are Australian from English/Welsh background. My mother is South African, and her family was German/Dutch/Danish and French. I am half-South African, but I don't identify with that as my mother was 13 when she moved to Australia and her parents insisted they were to be Australian to fit in.

DH's family is American for 2 generations and then Italian on his mother's side and Ukrainian on his father's side.

DS is a mix of all of that - half American, half Australian and 1/4 South African I suppose...

Nationality, I am Australian and now American citizen. DS is the same. When I got my citizenship I was joking with DH and said that DS and I could say we're Australian American. DS is interested in Australia, he asked me to go into his class and teach them Australian as another mother, who is from Italy, was teaching Italian.

Does the census ask for nationality?? I didn't think it did.

[smiles33]

Poppy: I've had the same experiences, but usually more along the lines of "Wow, you speak English so well!" crap since I actually am Chinese (which has a whole host of other issues ever since the anti-China stuff started up in the last decade). I spent a good 10 years of my life angry/defensive/bitter but I learned that it doesn't help to get angry. The sad reality is that many Americans know NOTHING about Asia other than what they see on TV. Now my attitude is that I can teach well-intentioned folks something new. I would still get ballistic when I hear sexist men who "wonder what it's like to f--- a Chinese girl" as if we're some aliens! Sadly, that has happened too many times in crowded bars/clubs.

In this case, arivecchi obviously did NOT intend to insult anyone and I think it's unfair to lash out at her this way. A gentle suggestion to consider how one could set it up in the future would be more constructive.

[poppy]

I was obviously not trying to offend anyone. As I stated in my initial response to you, I am sorry I upset you. Thank for insulting me though.

Sorry, but it didn't seem sincere with your little icon hitting someone over the head, probably me. I'm also very upset by this so I didn't mean to be rude. I apologize. I am also rather hormonal right now so you'll have to excuse me.

But it does matter knowing where each country is geographically. Your census makes no sense. You also never explained why some categories of ppl get their own and others are lumped together. We are all Asian per se, but ethnically, we're different ppl and from different countries, diff languages, and customs.

[egoldber]

Here is a link to the questions asked about race and ethnicity on the 2010 census:

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx

[niccig]

I'm more offended by how this "census" is set up rather than the idea of knowing ppl's races/ethnicity. I feel that ppl are just thrown together and we're all the same, so who cares?

The OP said there weren't many poll options, so she couldn't give each race/ethnicity it's own option She did say that if you didn't like the poll options because they number of options were limited, then not to post on the poll and reply in a message.

I don't for one minute think the OP is "lumping everyone together, because it's all the same, so who cares" - the forum software limits the number of options.

[smiles33]

Frankly, I think some of the categories in the poll point more towards nationality/ethnicity than race. There's a lot of mix up around those issues. For example I'm white, my family is European (from several countries), but I was born in Mexico, so many people immediately classify me as Hispanic when it comes to race, which is not correct. (Even though I'm more than 1/2 Spanish, that is considered Latin, not Hispanic, they're different groups).

There can be many different racial groups within one country, any country, so I wouldn't use a group of countries as a classification of race. I know it's a delicate subject and not something I dwell too much on. Just wanted to point out that race, nationality and ethnicity are different concepts that are easily mixed up.
:yeahthat:

My nationality is American. My race is Asian (or the DREADED Oriental that still exists on some forms on the East Coast). My ethnic heritage is Chinese American.

[TwinFoxes]

Mainly b/c you lump ppl together w/o any concern as to region, making it seem like it doesn't matter. Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, who cares? If you give Chinese ppl their own category, then make it consistent. At least lump ppl together by the proper region.


Well...maybe you didn't notice, but OP also lumped together Mexican, Puerto Rican and Cuban...and I'm pretty sure since she's Puerto Rican she knows they're not all the same, or from the same region. I think it was a matter of the need for brevity when trying to put together a fun poll, rather than ignorance and malice.

Let's all sing Kumbaya! :grouphug:

[edurnemk]

... I think it was a matter of the need for brevity when trying to put together a fun poll, rather than ignorance and malice.

Let's all sing Kumbaya! :grouphug:

:yeahthat:

[TwinFoxes]

Sorry, but it didn't seem sincere with your little icon hitting someone over the head, probably me.

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be OP getting hit. :)

[edurnemk]

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be OP getting hit. :)

Yep, that is the usual meaning of that icon: hitting oneself over the head.

[mommylamb]

I'm white. My background comes from various Eastern European countries. Lots of people look at me and think I'm either Spanish, Italian or Greek, none of which is in my heritage at all. I get the "where are you from?" question a fair bit. Strangely, I once had a taxi driver ask me if I was Indian, and when I looked at him kind of cockeyed and said no, he stumbled all over himself appologizing and then asked if I were Pakistani. I thought it was so odd because I really do not look like I come from that area of the world at all.

For what it's worth, I'm sure arivecchi did not mean to insult anyone by this poll. I think she was curious about how the BBB stacks up to national stats. I'm interested that we're such a homogenous bunch here according to the results so far.

[lchang25000]

My nationality is American. My race is Asian (or the DREADED Oriental that still exists on some forms on the East Coast). My ethnic heritage is Chinese American.

:yeahthat:

[arivecchi]

Yes, it was just a fun poll. I was not trying to start a debate. It is just a silly poll. For the record, the smiley meant that I was hitting myself over the head. I am logging out now though as this has already kind of ruined my morning and I most certainly do not need the stress.

[egoldber]

And for other data geeks, you may be interested to read this FAQ about the census. Questions 18 and 19 directly address the race categories on the census.

http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/ConstituentFAQ.pdf

Basically, it says, yes, we know it's confusing, but choose what makes the most sense to you. :p

[maestramommy]

I didn't know Taiwanese is now written next to Chinese. But I am checking other and writing in Taiwanese, as are all of my Taiwanese American friends and relatives. Dh is the same.

[elektra]

:yeahthat:

My nationality is American. My race is Asian (or the DREADED Oriental that still exists on some forms on the East Coast). My ethnic heritage is Chinese American.

I was looking at DH's birth certificate at one point, and his mother who is half Mexican and half Filipino put "Mongoloid" for her race/ethnicity because that was the most fitting choice I guess?????
I think it was either Caucasoid, Mongoloid or Negroid. Great categories, right?
I think she then put Caucasian for her next child's birth certificate.

[edurnemk]

Ok, so according to how the census is setup, http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx my race is White, and my ethnicity is mainly Latin (Spaniard and Italian). And I have dual nationalities, to make it even more interesting :p

[cindys]

I am Mexican American...Born and raised here as were my parents...

DH is Caucasion and of English descent.

Cindy
Mama to 3 boys...18, 4 & 17mos:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

[smiles33]

Yes, it was just a fun poll. I was not trying to start a debate. It is just a silly poll. For the record, the smiley meant that I was hitting myself over the head. I am logging out now though as this has already kind of ruined my morning and I most certainly do not need the stress.


:hug: I think this was just a misunderstanding, as it looks like poor Poppy thought your emoticon was bopping HER on the head and implying she was being stupid/insensitive.

I hope both Poppy and Arivecchi end up having a better day.

[smiles33]

I didn't know Taiwanese is now written next to Chinese. But I am checking other and writing in Taiwanese, as are all of my Taiwanese American friends and relatives.

This brings up a whole other issue that I bet 90% of BBBers don't even know: my Taiwanese friends HATE it when others presume they're Chinese and would be very offended that they're in the same category. It's a distinct political identity/nationality and would be akin to saying Palestinians and Israelis are the same category (for them).

My mother, who was born in Taiwan but whose parents fled the Communists, tells tales of being bullied and insulted by the "real" Taiwanese kids because her family was from China. My dad, who was born in China but whose family also fled to Taiwan in the 1940s, emphasizes that racially, most Taiwanese are still "Chinese" as there are very few Taiwanese aborigines who don't have Chinese racial heritage. Assuming that's true, nationality and ethnicity trumps race for my Taiwanese friends.

All this is to say that maestramommy, I know where you're coming from!

[ett]

I didn't know Taiwanese is now written next to Chinese. But I am checking other and writing in Taiwanese, as are all of my Taiwanese American friends and relatives.

Taiwanese is not next to Chinese on the census form. OP just added it in her poll.

[elektra]

:hug: I think this was just a misunderstanding, as it looks like poor Poppy thought your emoticon was bopping HER on the head and implying she was being stupid/insensitive.

I hope both Poppy and Arivecchi end up having a better day.

:yeahthat:
Kumbaya'ing over here. I think the head bop thing was meant to show arivecchi bopping herself, as a sign of "just tryin' to do a fun poll in the spirit of the census, didn't mean to offend, especially in light of the fact that I am Puerto Rican and still lumped that with Mexican which I'm sure many Hispanics would also have a problem with, but there are only so many poll choices, so......"
I am very interested in opening my census form now.

[lchang25000]

Taiwanese is not next to Chinese on the census form. OP just added it in her poll.

:yeahthat:

[salsah]

we are white (by race). my nationality is american, dh and the girls are american and canadian.

fwiw, i don't think that the op was trying to be offensive. the poll is limited to 10 options, so there has to be some grouping.

[trentsmom]

I'm white, and I think my ancestors are mainly from England. I have several ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, and then moved West - all the way to Kentucky!

[niccig]

Taiwanese is not next to Chinese on the census form. OP just added it in her poll.

I just looked at the Census and it says that the racial/ethnic groups are self-identified, so you put in what YOU feel you are. They give options and include Other if there isn't an option that covers you, so you can write it in.

[lovin2shop]

I never know how to answer these types of questions. I'm 1/2 Irish, 1/4 Peruvian, and 1/4 American Indian.

To risk a slight hijack, this became an issue for me in college. I was asked to apply for a Hispanic Student Association scholarship, and was identified for this by a combination of my grades and Spanish surname. I was a bit baffled by what to do because appearance-wise, I take after my mom and look mostly Irish and people generally classify me as Caucasian. I asked the Dean for clarification on what the requirements were for being Hispanic. He didn't really have an answer for me, but told me I should really consider applying because he felt that I would probably get the scholarship. I ultimately decided not to apply, and one of the main reasons was that I would have had to do a speech in front of the Hispanic Student Assocation. I just didn't think that it would be well received for a very "white" looking girl to be up there accepting the award, and at the time, I was just not confident enough in myself to face issue. It also kind of irked me in way that a scholarship based almost solely on race even existed.

Anyway, I get questions all the time about where my two DS's get their dark olive complexions. Plus, my younger one has blonde hair, and no one knows where this comes from from. Funny, the tricks that genetics can play!

[niccig]

I was looking at DH's birth certificate at one point, and his mother who is half Mexican and half Filipino put "Mongoloid" for her race/ethnicity because that was the most fitting choice I guess?????
I think it was either Caucasoid, Mongoloid or Negroid. Great categories, right?


These categories are used in Human Osteology - analyzing human remains for sex,age,race, cause of death, illnesses etc. Physical Anthropologist analyze archaeological remains and Forensic Anthropologists analyze modern remains for criminal cases - like the TV show "Bones".

Each of the 3 racial groupings, Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid have different skeletal traits that can be seen on the cranium. Just as males and females have different skeletal markers. Anthropologists will use these to determine the race and sex of a person. This isn't ethnicity though, just a broad grouping of race. So those terms are still used in the scientific community, but without the prejudicial meaning attached to those words.

[elektra]

These categories are used in Human Osteology - analyzing human remains for sex,age,race, cause of death, illnesses etc. Physical Anthropologist analyze archaeological remains and Forensic Anthropologists analyze modern remains for criminal cases - like the TV show "Bones".

Each of the 3 racial groupings, Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid have different skeletal traits that can be seen on the cranium. Just as males and females have different skeletal markers. Anthropologists will use these to determine the race and sex of a person. This isn't ethnicity though, just a broad grouping of race. So those terms are still used in the scientific community, but without the prejudicial meaning attached to those words.

Oh interesting. I thought it was just outdated categorization. I didn't realize the scientific uses of those racial categories still.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

My mother, who was born in Taiwan but whose parents fled the Communists, tells tales of being bullied and insulted by the "real" Taiwanese kids because her family was from China. My dad, who was born in China but whose family also fled to Taiwan in the 1940s, emphasizes that racially, most Taiwanese are still "Chinese" as there are very few Taiwanese aborigines who don't have Chinese racial heritage. Assuming that's true, nationality and ethnicity trumps race for my Taiwanese friends.


Couldn't they just say ethnic Han?

I think that is the ethnicity for most "ethnic Chinese" or whatever.

[Dream]

I'm Southeast Asian and yes I get alot of "you speak English so good". We were colonized by the British and English is our second language. We're dark skinned so lot of people asume I'm Indian, it doesn't really bother me. I just say yeah we all look the same and move on.

Not everyone from Southeast Asia are refugees either, some are highly skilled and chose to migrate to USA.

I like the poll, I find it interesting. I haven't even opened the census envelop and won't be till April when I get back from visiting family.

[niccig]

Oh interesting. I thought it was just outdated categorization. I didn't realize the scientific uses of those racial categories still.

Back then, on birth certificates - yes I agree it is outdated categorization and it doesn't give much information. Many different ethnic groups fit into those 3 broad categories, so little use from a public policy point of view.

If you do hear those terms used in a scientific context, there is a reason behind that, it's not using prejudicial terms. In a missing person's case where there are only skeletal remains, a forensic anthropologist can determine it's for eg. a female of 20-35 years of age, and is Asian or Native American (Mongoloid racial group). So, it helps to narrow down the profile of the person for ID purposes. Once they have a narrower grouping of missing persons, then they can see if they can match dental records, face reconstruction, known illnesses and injuries, to ID the person. Eg. if you broke a bone, they can be evidence of that injury.

The racial grouping based on skeletal markers isn't exact, but it can give more information to help ID someone. Eg. in the case of your MIL, you said she is half-Filipino (Mongoloid race) and half Mexican (guessing Caucasoid unless parent was one of the indigenous people of Mexico, but marriages can make that distinction difficult too), then it might be difficult to determine race as the skeletal markers aren't as pronounced so can't determine which racial grouping.

Have you heard about the DNA test you can do. You send off a DNA sample (scraped from tongue) and the lab can work out ancestry and geographic origins. I read an article a while back in Time or Newsweek and one person found out they were descended from a group of people from the Middle East, and he had no idea about that. I've considered doing the test and finding out more about my ancestry. As someone else said, it's such a melting pot and I'm sure I would find out something about my family that I wouldn't have known just from my family tree.

[maestramommy]

This brings up a whole other issue that I bet 90% of BBBers don't even know: my Taiwanese friends HATE it when others presume they're Chinese and would be very offended that they're in the same category. It's a distinct political identity/nationality and would be akin to saying Palestinians and Israelis are the same category (for them).

My mother, who was born in Taiwan but whose parents fled the Communists, tells tales of being bullied and insulted by the "real" Taiwanese kids because her family was from China. My dad, who was born in China but whose family also fled to Taiwan in the 1940s, emphasizes that racially, most Taiwanese are still "Chinese" as there are very few Taiwanese aborigines who don't have Chinese racial heritage. Assuming that's true, nationality and ethnicity trumps race for my Taiwanese friends.

All this is to say that maestramommy, I know where you're coming from!

Yowza, another Taiwanese I meet on BBB!:jammin:

I don't necessarily disagree with your dad, BUT recently my dad was telling me about a study that found Taiwanese people (not the ones that fled Community China) are genetically closer to Filipinos than Chinese in China. Probably for the simple reason that there is a lot more intermarrying in their histories. Taiwan was colonized by the Dutch and the Portuguese, Philippines by the Spanish (and anyone else?). I know the Taiwanese language originated from a Chinese province (whose name has suddenly left my brain!), and it's always interesting when I meet Chinese people from the Philippines and Singapore who speak it!

I don't hate it (emotionally) when people assume Taiwanese and Chinese are the same, but it's one of the few issues on which I am dogmatic like granite. I'm usually a very diplomatic person, but if someone were to tell me I'm really just Chinese I'd have no trouble telling them to their face, "you're wrong." :p

[niccig]

I don't hate it (emotionally) when people assume Taiwanese and Chinese are the same, but it's one of the few issues on which I am dogmatic like granite. I'm usually a very diplomatic person, but if someone were to tell me I'm really just Chinese I'd have no trouble telling them to their face, "you're wrong." :p

And they are. Ethnicity is what you identify with, not what someone else thinks you are.

[edurnemk]

Have you heard about the DNA test you can do. You send off a DNA sample (scraped from tongue) and the lab can work out ancestry and geographic origins. I read an article a while back in Time or Newsweek and one person found out they were descended from a group of people from the Middle East, and he had no idea about that. I've considered doing the test and finding out more about my ancestry. As someone else said, it's such a melting pot and I'm sure I would find out something about my family that I wouldn't have known just from my family tree.

Wow! That sounds interesting. Do you know where you can have that test done?

[niccig]

Wow! That sounds interesting. Do you know where you can have that test done?

You can read more about it here http://genealogy.about.com/cs/geneticgenealogy/a/dna_tests.htm there are a number of companies you would need to research to get a reputable company.

I want to do it, but I do think I could find some things out about my family that will upset my mother. Apparently there was gossip about the race of my grandfather's father, so her grandfather. There was teasing from her cousins when she was a child, telling her that her grandfather wasn't who she thought etc. A DNA test from me might give some insight into that. While I don't care either way, I know if I know the answer I will have a difficult time not sharing it with my sisters, who also won't care, but the rest of the family will find out and I think they will care if their grandfather wasn't who they thought it was. I wish they didn't feel that way, but they do. Dh said I should just go do it if I want to...I'm not doing it to answer that question in particular, the history nut in me likes the idea of knowing more about where I come from and how ancestors moved across the world. My family background is such a mixed bag, I do think they'll be a lot I will learn and I can then find out more with genealogy research. I may just do it, and then decide whether I share anything I learn with family or not. So, there is that downside to the results, you might find out something that upsets someone in your family...or you might not.

ETA. I read more information, and genetic tests won't provide information on my great grandfather - to do that, I need to have a direct male ancestor from him, which there isn't as my uncle, who passed away, didn't have kids. I can do the test on the maternal line though.

[ett]

Couldn't they just say ethnic Han?

I think that is the ethnicity for most "ethnic Chinese" or whatever.

About 10% of China's population is not ethnic Han and 10% of 1.2 billion is a lot of people.

[edurnemk]

the history nut in me likes the idea of knowing more about where I come from and how ancestors moved across the world. My family background is such a mixed bag, I do think they'll be a lot I will learn and I can then find out more with genealogy research.

That's my motivation as well. I have a very diverse family tree, and although we have traced back many generations on one side of the family, I'd like to know more about the other side (I only know as far back as my great grandparents for my dad's side vs. all the way to the middle ages for my mom's side). One of my aunts has been working really hard to build the family tree.

[niccig]

That's my motivation as well. I have a very diverse family tree, and although we have traced back many generations on one side of the family, I'd like to know more about the other side (I only know as far back as my great grandparents for my dad's side vs. all the way to the middle ages for my mom's side). One of my aunts has been working really hard to build the family tree.

The link I gave gives more information about what you can find out and from who. Eg. I can't find out about my grandfather's father as the testing for that is on the Y-chromosome, and we need a direct male descendant, which we don't have anymore. I can do the maternal line testing from me. If you have other family members that are willing to do the testing, then you could find out more information. You also need to put your results into some of the genealogy databases to see if you get a match with someone else, and there's no guarantee for that, but who knows, you might come up with something that helps you work out more.

[DrSally]

Have you heard about the DNA test you can do. You send off a DNA sample (scraped from tongue) and the lab can work out ancestry and geographic origins. I read an article a while back in Time or Newsweek and one person found out they were descended from a group of people from the Middle East, and he had no idea about that. I've considered doing the test and finding out more about my ancestry. As someone else said, it's such a melting pot and I'm sure I would find out something about my family that I wouldn't have known just from my family tree.

Is this the same thing that Henry Louis Gates is working on? I saw him talking about it on Oprah and it was soooo interesting. She was the first person he did the test on. I think they also do geneology combined with the DNA testing and find some very interesting stuff. I'd be so interested in doing this b/c I really don't know for sure my exact ancestry b/c I was adopted.

[crl]

This brings up a whole other issue that I bet 90% of BBBers don't even know: my Taiwanese friends HATE it when others presume they're Chinese and would be very offended that they're in the same category. It's a distinct political identity/nationality and would be akin to saying Palestinians and Israelis are the same category (for them).

My mother, who was born in Taiwan but whose parents fled the Communists, tells tales of being bullied and insulted by the "real" Taiwanese kids because her family was from China. My dad, who was born in China but whose family also fled to Taiwan in the 1940s, emphasizes that racially, most Taiwanese are still "Chinese" as there are very few Taiwanese aborigines who don't have Chinese racial heritage. Assuming that's true, nationality and ethnicity trumps race for my Taiwanese friends.

All this is to say that maestramommy, I know where you're coming from!

That's really interesting to me. DS is adopted from China. (And is almost certainly not Han--he's from the mountianous part of the Hubei Province where most people are descended from the Ba. And DS is very tall and thin--not really typical of Han.) We had good friends in VA who had come to the US from Taiwan. They never made the Taiwanese distinction to me--always referred to themselves as Chinese. But there was a definite sense that "mainland" was inferior. (Not that people from the mainland were inferior, but that goods were, it wasn't a fun place to travel, etc.)

Catherine

[arivecchi]

I hope both Poppy and Arivecchi end up having a better day. I am. Thanks. :) I am still in shock this stupid poll was so controversial!

[niccig]

Is this the same thing that Henry Louis Gates is working on? I saw him talking about it on Oprah and it was soooo interesting. She was the first person he did the test on. I think they also do geneology combined with the DNA testing and find some very interesting stuff. I'd be so interested in doing this b/c I really don't know for sure my exact ancestry b/c I was adopted.

I'm not sure. The genealogy DNA tests have been around for a while. I know that as more databases get set up and people input their details, more matches can be made. I'll have to check out the Oprah episode. It is important to remember how much information you will get from the tests. It's not going to answer everything. Using a reputable company should help with that - you know exactly what you will find out/wont' find out before you go ahead.

[Jo..]

I'm glad someone else had the nuts to start this poll. I have always been curious, but didn't want to take any heat for my ignorance!

[gatorsmom]

I'm more offended by how this "census" is set up rather than the idea of knowing ppl's races/ethnicity. I feel that ppl are just thrown together and we're all the same, so who cares?

I don't know why you are so offended, my heritage is German. Germany isn't even listed on that poll. I had to check the "white" box. That groups me with anyone who is Italian, French, Australian, etc. We are all very different, speak different languages, and our countries are spread all over the world. But dude, it doesn't bug me because it's just a poll for fun. No one is trying to say you are exactly like anyone else here. No one is trying to hurt you or offend you or belittle you in any way. Just for fun.

[essnce629]

I'm 1/2 black, 1/2 Mexican.

[DrSally]

This brings up a whole other issue that I bet 90% of BBBers don't even know: my Taiwanese friends HATE it when others presume they're Chinese and would be very offended that they're in the same category. It's a distinct political identity/nationality and would be akin to saying Palestinians and Israelis are the same category (for them).



I would've guessed this from the current Chinese/Taiwanese relations.

[edurnemk]

... I had to check the "white" box. That groups me with anyone who is Italian, French, Australian, etc. We are all very different, speak different languages, and our countries are spread all over the world.. .

I've always wondered why there are so many different options for Asian countries or ethnicities, but not for European countries or other regions... not that it bothers me, just makes me wonder everytime I have to fill out a race or ethnicity question.

[smiles33]

Yowza, another Taiwanese I meet on BBB!:jammin:

I don't necessarily disagree with your dad, BUT recently my dad was telling me about a study that found Taiwanese people (not the ones that fled Community China) are genetically closer to Filipinos than Chinese in China. Probably for the simple reason that there is a lot more intermarrying in their histories. Taiwan was colonized by the Dutch and the Portuguese, Philippines by the Spanish (and anyone else?). I know the Taiwanese language originated from a Chinese province (whose name has suddenly left my brain!), and it's always interesting when I meet Chinese people from the Philippines and Singapore who speak it!

I don't hate it (emotionally) when people assume Taiwanese and Chinese are the same, but it's one of the few issues on which I am dogmatic like granite. I'm usually a very diplomatic person, but if someone were to tell me I'm really just Chinese I'd have no trouble telling them to their face, "you're wrong." :p

Sorry to go off on a random tangent about Chinese/Taiwanese, but to respond here: I think you're thinking of Fujian Province, as Taiwanese sounds like Fujianese.

Yeah, I think my dad is just stubborn and thinks everyone from China (even if they left 200 years ago for Taiwan) is still Chinese. It would be like an old British guy who insists all Americans are British/Anglo-Saxon. I think it's most important to Taiwanese who embrace that identity and stubborn older Chinese who insist on the Chinese label. Frankly, there are many like my mom who have ties to Taiwan but don't identify as Taiwanese and don't really care if you call them Chinese (to answer crl). My theory is that the minority that is oppressed (in this case, Taiwanese) will always react more strongly and likely resent a majority group (in this case, mainland Chinese). As crl points out, there are minority groups in China, as the "race" we think of as Chinese is just ethnic Han Chinese.

That brings me to my response to gatorsmom. As someone of European ancestry, you are in the majority in the US and likely haven't faced the belittling/ignorant/condescending/sometimes innocent but still hurtful comments and assumptions about your racial heritage. No one questions that you're an American because you're white, whereas many Asian Pacific Americans are asked, "Where are you REALLY from?" if you try to answer "California." Thus, I think poppy had a different context when she saw this post than the typical "mainstream" American of European descent. I'm not trying to speak for her, but I do think we all reacted differently to this poll depending on our personal contexts and experiences with race, ethnicity, and nationality. These three identities are more salient for some than others.

edurnemk: I honestly don't recall seeing a lot of Asian ethnic breakdowns in most surveys. I think if the purpose is to figure out your ethnic identity, it needs to be very broad because it's a distinct cultural issue (as opposed to a "scientific" definition like the Mongoloid/Negroid/Caucasoid issue). Yet if it's "just" race, then it's usually White, Black/African American, Asian or Pacific Islander, and Native American (with the obligatory Other). That means Latino respondents have to check White if they don't identify with one of the other listed races. I know some friends check Other and write in Latino or Chicano (which more a political statement for Mexican Americans).

OK, that is a LONG post...

[cindys]

I have gotten the "where are you from" question which really irks me!! Heck, I cant even speak or understand spanish even though I am Mexican.

And everytime I go to a Mexican restaurant the waiters try to talk to me in spanish :)

My Mom talks to my babies in spanish all the time (she speaks perfect english) and they understand her which I love..

My siblings and I werent talked to in spanish growing up nor were we around anyone that did..My Mom is fluent in spanish because my Grandfather never spoke english even though he worked at GM for 30yrs in Michigan...

The other thing that bugs me is that people always ask me if my babies are mine..I have brown hair and brown eyes and they both are blonde and blue eyed (DH is blonde and blue eyed)..

Okay, do I really need to go into the fact with strangers that my father and grandfather both had green eyes and that 2 of my siblings have green eyes and one has blue?

As someone said earlier, genetics are a strange thing..Maybe its me but I dont look at people and "assume" they are supposed to look a certain way because of their nationality.

And honestly, why I cant just be American..Why do I always have to preface by saying Mexican American as indicated on the census...

But the poll doesnt bother me one bit...We are all a little bit of something, thats what makes us all so different yet so great! :applause:

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

About 10% of China's population is not ethnic Han and 10% of 1.2 billion is a lot of people.

Well 90% is definitely most. Besides, I was talking about smiles33's case where she was talking about Chinese people who had emigrated to Taiwan and then call themselves Taiwanese where as there is an ethnic Tawainese. So perhaps those people may not be Han ethnicity, but may be something else, not necessarily ethnic Taiwanese.

Typically when you hear ethnic Chinese it is referring to ethnic Han, IMO.

An aside, I'm pretty sure that if you are an ethnic minority in China you are allowed more than 1 child. I just thought that was interesting.

Anyways, it's not really my business whatever you (generic) want to identify yourself as. I go with White, my husband goes with Chinese and our kids go with both. If they want more specific, I would go with Swiss. :) We're all American.

ETA - Maybe I mean race here instead of ethnicity? Little confused on that.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

Intersting info from Wikipedia, trust it as you may. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_chinese

Mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau
The vast majority of Han Chinese – over 1.2 billion – live in areas under the jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC), where they constitute about 92% of its population. Within the People's Republic of China, Han Chinese are the majority in every province, municipality, and autonomous region except for the autonomous regions of Xinjiang (41% as of 2000) and Tibet (6% as of 2000). Han Chinese also constitute the majority in both of the Special Administrative Regions of the PRC, about 95%[citation needed] of the population of Hong Kong and about 96%[citation needed] of the population of Macau.

[edit] Taiwan
Over 22 million Han Chinese are in Taiwan. The Han Chinese began migrating from southeastern coastal provinces of mainland China to Taiwan in the 17th century.[10]

At first, these immigrants chose to settle in locations that bore a resemblance to the areas they had left behind in mainland China, regardless of whether they arrived in the north or south of Taiwan. Fujianese immigrants from Quanzhou settled in coastal regions, and those from Zhangzhou tended to gather on inland plains, while Hakka immigrants inhabited hilly areas. Clashes between these groups over land, water, and cultural differences led to the relocation of some communities, and, as time passed, varying degrees of intermarriage and assimilation took place.[11] Recent scientific research conducted by Chen Shun-sheng of the Kaohsiung Hospital’s psychiatric department claims DNA studies of Taiwan’s people revealed a large percent of the population has mixed Han Chinese and aboriginal bloodlines.[12]

[Sweetum]

From India. That makes me Asian Indian.

[lovin2shop]

Wanted to add that I'm not in any way unhappy about this poll, I think it is very interesting and enjoyed seeing the results. I just still get confused as to what I should check on these types of surveys; I often I wish that there was an option to check all that apply!

[edurnemk]

edurnemk: I honestly don't recall seeing a lot of Asian ethnic breakdowns in most surveys. I think if the purpose is to figure out your ethnic identity, it needs to be very broad because it's a distinct cultural issue (as opposed to a "scientific" definition like the Mongoloid/Negroid/Caucasoid issue). Yet if it's "just" race, then it's usually White, Black/African American, Asian or Pacific Islander, and Native American (with the obligatory Other). That means Latino respondents have to check White if they don't identify with one of the other listed races. I know some friends check Other and write in Latino or Chicano (which more a political statement for Mexican Americans).

OK, that is a LONG post...

I was thinking mostly of the racial categories of the US Census: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx (section 6), where 10 or 11 out of 15 options refer to ethnicities from Asia and Pacific Islands. I get it that white is the majority in the US, but since I'm white but not American, I guess I just see it differently. Again, not that it bothers me, it's just an observation that not all regions get as many ethnic breakdowns in this census.

[slworld]

Very interesting thread. I am not very clear on the difference between race & ethnicity. Can anyone explain?

Thanks

[elektra]

Very interesting thread. I am not very clear on the difference between race & ethnicity. Can anyone explain?

Thanks

I am not totally clear on this either.
Also, why is Hispanic not a race exactly?

[schrocat]

if I had created the poll, I would have separated East Asians from Southeast Asians just because the history of immigrants from these regions are very different (e.g., refugees fleeing war-torn Southeast Asia don't have the same outlook/background as highly educated immigrants who CHOSE to come to America). For example: Chinese/Japanese/Korean/other East Asians and then Vietnamese/Cambodian/Hmong/other Southeast Asians. I'd also include Filipinos (who aren't listed here). But this isn't a scientific survey and it's just for fun! :)

I don't know about that. Not everybody who chose to migrate to the US from Southeast Asia come from war-torn countries. Both DH and I are relatively highly educated, grew up in Southeast Asia and now live in the US. We chose to move to the US. We're both ethnically Chinese and think of ourselves as ethnically Chinese.

[smiles33]

I don't know about that. Not everybody who chose to migrate to the US from Southeast Asia come from war-torn countries. Both DH and I are relatively highly educated, grew up in Southeast Asia and now live in the US. We chose to move to the US. We're both ethnically Chinese and think of ourselves as ethnically Chinese.

Someone else posted up thread about this, too, so let me just clarify that I didn't mean to imply that ALL Americans of Southeast Asian descent are refugees. What I said, perhaps inelegantly, is that the history of immigration from certain countries differs. When I hear non-Asians say, "Oh, Asians are all nerdy and rich" (or something generic like that), I point out (when I can) that SOME of the most visible Asians who are "nerdy and rich" owe that to the advanced educational degrees they have and it's not an INHERENT racial quality. The fact is that some Asian Pacific Americans have been incredibly successful because the US Immigration system strongly favors the highly educated. It's much easier to be allowed to immigrate here if you have a PhD and the assumption is that an advanced degree will increase your earning power. For what it's worth, they also have categories for "entrepreneur investors" so if you're ALREADY wealthy and willing to put up some money for building a business in the US, you can also immigrate.

On the other hand, there are also "preference categories," like asylum, that allowed a large number of Asian refugees to enter the U.S. Thus, I don't think it's fair to lump the two groups together for a wide range of reasons, including the fact that it makes it more difficult for gov't agencies who rely on Census data to better serve those Asian refugees who need help. Again, broadly speaking, while there are certainly asylees from China escaping human rights violations, the vast majority of Asian Pacific American refugees escaping from war were from Southeast Asia (as those escaping Vietnam often fled to neighboring countries like Thailand or the Philippines). If you look at the number of immigrants entering the US with advanced degrees, you'll likely see China and India at the top of the list.

The bottom line is that the Census asks for racial data because they *think* it's a reasonable proxy for certain information that will help with policy decisions. I don't think it's an absolutely accurate proxy but there are valid reasons for using race, like trying to protect the voting rights of minorities (since history shows that policymakers used to rig the system to draw weird voting districts to prevent minority voters from voting in officials responsive to their concerns).

OK, I think I've rambled on quite a bit here....Sorry! I hope this doesn't come across as a lecture! I'm genuinely trying to be helpful.

[smilequeen]

I am white (German and French)

DH is Chinese (born in Hong Kong)

[citymama]

To the PP who asked why there are multiple categories for Asians and not for Europeans: first, there are different categories for Europeans (Caucasian and Spanish/Hispanic), and second, there are significant ethnic/racial differences between SE Asians, NE Asians and South Asians (who together make up more than half of the planet's people).

Re the previous debate about the merits of this poll: I think this is a really interesting poll and thanks OP for starting it. Yes, we should all sing Kumbaya and be color/race blind. But identifying with an ethnic or cultural background doesn't make you any less American or Canadian (or whatever other countries are represented here)! I am curious to know about the make-up of this board, and actually somewhat amazed at how heavily Caucasian it is. Maybe that's just the daytime crowd. ;)

[smiles33]

Very interesting thread. I am not very clear on the difference between race & ethnicity. Can anyone explain?

Thanks

OK, it's a slow day at work so I'm going to try. I'm sure there are formal definitions you can google, but this is my understanding.

Race is a social construct that people use to try to define physical characteristics. For example, Asians as a racial group tend to have flatter noses, straight black hair, smaller eyes, etc. Of course, there are outliers (though I have yet to meet an Asian with natural haircolor other than black or dark brown!), but there is a general category of physical characteristics shared amongst most members of the racial group. Scientifically, we share something like 99% of the same DNA, so any perceived differences between races are really tiny in the grand scheme of things.

Ethnicity is a cultural construct and implies shared community, shared values, possibly shared history. Using my earlier examples, Chinese and Taiwanese may be of the same race (for the most part, though aboriginal Taiwanese and minorities liviing in China might be considered Caucasoid or Negroid instead--using the scientific terms). However, they are two distinct ethnic groups as they self-identify differently.

As to Elektra's question re: Hispanics/Latinos/Chicanos: I *think* it's because many Spanish-speaking countries in the Western hemisphere have significant intermarriage (as well as a history of colonization where the native women might have been raped/forced into marriage) so rather than a RACIAL identity, it's more of a cultural/ethnic identity. There are Japanese Peruvians (including the former president, Alberto Fujimori), African Cubans, indigenous Mexicans, etc. They are all Latino/Hispanic but they have different races.

I honestly wonder if other countries put American in their survey like we use Hispanic/Latino, as there's definitely an American culture regardless of race.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I am 75% Irish, 12.5% Cherokee, and the rest a white mix.

DH is 50/50 Fin/German. His dad grew up in Berlin, his mom Canada (her parents were from Finland).

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

To the PP who asked why there are multiple categories for Asians and not for Europeans: first, there are different categories for Europeans (Caucasian and Spanish/Hispanic), and second, there are significant ethnic/racial differences between SE Asians, NE Asians and South Asians (who together make up more than half of the planet's people).

Re the previous debate about the merits of this poll: I think this is a really interesting poll and thanks OP for starting it. Yes, we should all sing Kumbaya and be color/race blind. But identifying with an ethnic or cultural background doesn't make you any less American or Canadian (or whatever other countries are represented here)! I am curious to know about the make-up of this board, and actually somewhat amazed at how heavily Caucasian it is. Maybe that's just the daytime crowd. ;)


That's because you live in such an ethnically diverse area.:jammin: When DH and I moved from the BA to Flagstaff all the white people made us uneasy, it was weird!

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

Poppy: I've had the same experiences, but usually more along the lines of "Wow, you speak English so well!" crap since I actually am Chinese (which has a whole host of other issues ever since the anti-China stuff started up in the last decade). I spent a good 10 years of my life angry/defensive/bitter but I learned that it doesn't help to get angry. The sad reality is that many Americans know NOTHING about Asia other than what they see on TV. Now my attitude is that I can teach well-intentioned folks something new. I would still get ballistic when I hear sexist men who "wonder what it's like to f--- a Chinese girl" as if we're some aliens! Sadly, that has happened too many times in crowded bars/clubs.

In this case, arivecchi obviously did NOT intend to insult anyone and I think it's unfair to lash out at her this way. A gentle suggestion to consider how one could set it up in the future would be more constructive.

:yeahthat: In that case, I could be offended I am a COLOR, white. I'm mostly Irish, and a lot of people don't see the distinction between Irish/Scottish/Welsh/British even though there is. I took white to mean Caucasian/European which encompasses everyone from Ireland to Russia, quite a large group. The poll could have very easily said Asian/Pacific Islander or the like. I understand feeling offended because of the way others have viewed you, but the OP didn't mean anything by it. I grew up in a predominantly Filipino community where some said they were Asian, yet some Pacific Islander, so even in a group they can view themselves differently.

The one group that is obviously missing to me is Arab/Middle Eastern, but like the OP said there are only x number of options, and this poll was supposed to be fun, not scientifically accurate.

[Fairy]

Wow. Ten pages late to this party. What an interesting, educational, surprising party it's been. I read every page.

I am a European mutt. 1/2 Polish, 1/2 Eastern European mix, possibly most of it being Latvian. I dunno, it's hard to know some of the lineage other than knowing it's definitely several flavors of Ashkenazi Jew. My visual look is uninteresting white chick with mousy brown hair, brown eyes, and the inevitable rosacea that comes with my shade of pasty.

Arivecci does not need any more support verbalized by me, as she's clearly had lots of that in this thread. However, I want to say a couple things, anyway. I love doing polls, and I will agree with Jo that I've never had the guts to do this one, even tho I've thought about it, cuz I worried how it would be received and that people might mistake my intent. Like what happened here. But this thread has been overwhelming positive and supportive of A's intent, 160'something odd people voted and shared their ethnicity, and everyone seems to agree that tehre is no way on earth that arivecci had an ounce of anything but good spirit here. And always does.

[arivecchi]

Arivecci does not need any more support verbalized by me, as she's clearly had lots of that in this thread. However, I want to say a couple things, anyway. I love doing polls, and I will agree with Jo that I've never had the guts to do this one, even tho I've thought about it, cuz I worried how it would be received and that people might mistake my intent. Like what happened here. But this thread has been overwhelming positive and supportive of A's intent, 160'something odd people voted and shared their ethnicity, and everyone seems to agree that tehre is no way on earth that arivecci had an ounce of anything but good spirit here. And always does. Thanks Fairy. :hug5:

[Sweetum]

Having been here as long as I have, and that's not very long, I find people here to be helpful, nice and very very supportive. I'm yet to see a post (and I'm addicted to these boards - I mourn days when there isn't much activity) where people are being mean or offensive or condescending. I guess when people don't agree or don't care, they typically word it well, or stay out. And to me, knowing someone's racial/ethnic and religious background is extremely interesting. I miss my grad school days when we would talk endlessly about these things (and still getting our channel estimation hw done!) because they were just interesting. It's a fact that we are all different - physically, culturally, and it's just interesting to know how and why.

And I say this to not one person here but just voicing my views - it's all "cewl" to me!

[edurnemk]

To the PP who asked why there are multiple categories for Asians and not for Europeans: first, there are different categories for Europeans (Caucasian and Spanish/Hispanic), and second, there are significant ethnic/racial differences between SE Asians, NE Asians and South Asians (who together make up more than half of the planet's people).


I hope no one took my previous comment negatively. I was just trying to convey that, just as some posters have shared the many differences between racial groups in Asia, there are many more races in other regions as well (Europe, Africa and America - the continent, not just the country). I don't mind being grouped under "caucasian" but a lot of Europeans would mind being considered the same race (just as some Taiwanese pppl were offended by being grouped with Chinese, for example), as there are many more groups than just Caucasian and Latin. In fact, the mere fact of considering Spaniards in the same group as Hispanics is a source of controversy with some people (Spaniards are Latin, same group as French and Italians and not the same thing as Latino).

Again, this is not an attack on anyone, I'm just sharing my point of view. I don't mind that arivecchi didn't break it down, I just curiously wondered why the US Census breaks it down in so much detail for that region only.

And I'm really glad posters have shared so much about Asian and Pacific racial groups, because I've learned a lot today.

[citymama]

edurnemk, I definitely get where you are coming from!! Good points.

[almostamom]

I don't know why you are so offended, my heritage is German. Germany isn't even listed on that poll. I had to check the "white" box. That groups me with anyone who is Italian, French, Australian, etc. We are all very different, speak different languages, and our countries are spread all over the world. But dude, it doesn't bug me because it's just a poll for fun. No one is trying to say you are exactly like anyone else here. No one is trying to hurt you or offend you or belittle you in any way. Just for fun.

Lisa, I love you!

Linda (the Italian chick)

[edurnemk]

edenmurk, I definitely get where you are coming from!! Good points.

Thanks! I kind of worried maybe some people took my question the wrong way. I really hope the time will come when race and ethnicity are no longer a source of tensions, fights, wars, etc. Our origins should be a source of pride, not a reason to fight.

[maestramommy]

Intersting info from Wikipedia, trust it as you may. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_chinese

Interesting. I'd like to know more about the DNA studies done by this person.

Going off the difference between race and ethnicity, I wonder why then to people use the words racial ethnic together so often, if they are referring to two separate things.

This has been such an interesting thread!

[ett]

Again, this is not an attack on anyone, I'm just sharing my point of view. I don't mind that arivecchi didn't break it down, I just curiously wondered why the US Census breaks it down in so much detail for that region only.


This is just my guess as to why the US Census breaks down the Asian ethnicities (sp?) into so many details. The current flow of immigrants to this country currently is from Asia. Many Asians in this country are first or second generation, so there have not been a lot of inter-racial marriages between the Asians and non-Asians. Therefore, the gov't can get useful info by asking for detail data for Asians. But Europeans came to this country hundreds of years ago, so it would be hard to ask people to check off whether they're English, French, German, or whatever because most are probably a mix. I'm Asian and I'm seeing a lot more inter-racial marriages among my Asian friends as compared to their parent's generation. (between different Asian races and Asian and Caucasians). Perhaps hundreds of years later, Asians will be mixed in as the European immigrants have already.

[daisymommy]

I'm bi-racial. My mom is German (white) and my dad is bohemian (black). I'm so glad that forms are starting to let us claim more than one race. Makes me mad when I have to choose just one.

[edurnemk]

This is just my guess as to why the US Census breaks down the Asian ethnicities (sp?) into so many details. The current flow of immigrants to this country currently is from Asia. Many Asians in this country are first or second generation, so there have not been a lot of inter-racial marriages between the Asians and non-Asians. Therefore, the gov't can get useful info by asking for detail data for Asians. But Europeans came to this country hundreds of years ago, so it would be hard to ask people to check off whether they're English, French, German, or whatever because most are probably a mix. I'm Asian and I'm seeing a lot more inter-racial marriages among my Asian friends as compared to their parent's generation. (between different Asian races and Asian and Caucasians). Perhaps hundreds of years later, Asians will be mixed in as the European immigrants have already.

Thanks! Good insight.

[LexyLou]

Wow, that was interesting 10 pages of reading.

We are mutts.

I'm White which equates to 50% Italian about 40% Russian and 10% French. I'm also Jewish.

My DH is 100% Mexican but on the census his race is white since he was born in the US.

I marked for my daughters Mexican for ethnicity and white for their race, which is also what I put for DH, So I'm not sure how to differentiate on the census that they are 50% Mexican as opposed to DH's 100% Mexican...not that it really matters.

[elektra]

I marked for my daughters Mexican for ethnicity and white for their race, which is also what I put for DH, So I'm not sure how to differentiate on the census that they are 50% Mexican as opposed to DH's 100% Mexican...not that it really matters.

This is what's weird for me too. You can't check Hispanic and non-Hispanic (can you?) like you can check both black and white for instance.

[creativelightbulb]

I'm sort of late to this thread but I'm glad someone started it because I've always wondered about the demographics of BBB

I'm black/colored/negro/African American....:waving4:

while I sympathize with Poppy's frustration I generally think racial/cultural classification in this country is and always will be an imperfect science simply because we are so diverse and there is a natural tendency for people to try to simplify the complex

if you think being lumped into an Asian category is frustrating...try being just "BLACK"...what in the world is that REALLY?

[arivecchi]

This is what's weird for me too. You can't check Hispanic and non-Hispanic (can you?) like you can check both black and white for instance. Ok, so I am filling the actual census form now. Clearly, I am of Hispanic origin and my kids are half-Puerto Rican. But when it comes to the race category, what the heck do I mark? Our skin is white but most Puerto Ricans are a mix of Spanish/black and Taino Indian. What are others with multi-racial backgrounds doing?

[elektra]

Ok, so I am filling the actual census form now. Clearly, I am of Hispanic origin and my kids are half-Puerto Rican. But when it comes to the race category, what the heck do I mark? Our skin is white but most Puerto Ricans are a mix of Spanish/black and Taino Indian. What are others with multi-racial backgrounds doing?

For DH I put Hispanic/ White. I would put that for your kids too.
But DH is actually only 1/4 Mexican/Hispanic, so if you are 1/2 or less Hispanic does that still make you Hispanic? I think 1/2 Hispanic = Hispanic (my expert opinion ;)) but I wasn't sure about 1/4. I didn't put Hispanic for my 1/8 kids.
I did not put Filipino down for DH though even though he is as much Hispanic as Filipino. But Filipino was a "race" but Hispanic was not. I dunno. I thought about it WAY too much.

But it did seem weird to me that our nanny, who was born in Mexico and is very dark complected also picks Hispanic/White- which is the same category as DH. (She and I were talking about it.)

[arivecchi]

For DH I put Hispanic/ White. I would put that for your kids too.
But DH is actually only 1/4 Mexican/Hispanic, so if you are 1/2 or less Hispanic does that still make you Hispanic? I think 1/2 Hispanic = Hispanic (my expert opinion ;)) but I wasn't sure about 1/4. I didn't put Hispanic for my 1/8 kids.
I did not put Filipino down for DH though even though he is as much Hispanic as Filipino. But Filipino was a "race" but Hispanic was not. I dunno know. I thought about it WAY too much.

But it did seem weird to me that our nanny, who was born in Mexico and is very dark complected also picks Hispanic/White- which is the same category as DH. (She and I were talking about it.) I don't see Hispanic/White as a category in question #6. Was that a write-in? :dizzy:

[KeirasMommy]

i am cuban and lebanese. DH is chinese, tawainese and korean. DD is cuban, lebanese, chinese, tawainese and korean. talk about multicultural :ROTFLMAO:

[elektra]

I don't see Hispanic/White as a category in question #6. Was that a write-in? :dizzy:
I sealed mine up already but I think the first question was "are you Hispanic?" yes or no.
Then you pick race further down.
So Hispanic- yes
Race- white

[citymama]

i am cuban and lebanese. DH is chinese, tawainese and korean. DD is cuban, lebanese, chinese, tawainese and korean. talk about multicultural :ROTFLMAO:

wow, i thought my DD was multi-cultural/multi-ethnic but you win!

[elektra]

i am cuban and lebanese. DH is chinese, tawainese and korean. DD is cuban, lebanese, chinese, tawainese and korean. talk about multicultural :ROTFLMAO:
Love it!
What did you end up picking????
Hispanic/ Chinese, White (black?), Korean, Taiwanese? I don't think the Cuban or Lebanese would have had a race though besides just black or white though, right?

[arivecchi]

I sealed mine up already but I think the first question was "are you Hispanic?" yes or no.
Then you pick race further down.
So Hispanic- yes
Race- white Gotcha. That is how I have it right now for the kids and I but it seems weird. I mean, one of my grandfathers is very dark skinned and my mom is definitely not white.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

I'm sort of late to this thread but I'm glad someone started it because I've always wondered about the demographics of BBB

I'm black/colored/negro/African American....:waving4:

while I sympathize with Poppy's frustration I generally think racial/cultural classification in this country is and always will be an imperfect science simply because we are so diverse and there is a natural tendency for people to try to simplify the complex

if you think being lumped into an Asian category is frustrating...try being just "BLACK"...what in the world is that REALLY?

Hi Black, I'm White :wavey: nice to meet you! Funny that black/white are the only colors listed for race/ethnicity in common culture. I grew up saying black, and that was the norm in the Bay Area. No one said they were African American. We also said Latino/a as opposed to Hispanic. But race in the Bay Area is less of a big deal than it is in a lot of other places. I don't think I have ever heard colored or negro except on TV. I was in culture shock when I moved to AZ, and saw so many white people. We were very uncomfortable at first.

You are totally right about race being very hard to classify in the US. And as more "interracial marriages" occur, it will be even harder. I see many posters not sure what to check because they are race A and DH is race B.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

i am cuban and lebanese. DH is chinese, tawainese and korean. DD is cuban, lebanese, chinese, tawainese and korean. talk about multicultural :ROTFLMAO:

Is there a Middle Eastern option on the census? Just curious, a lot of my friends growing up were Middle Eastern.

[m448]

Ok, so I am filling the actual census form now. Clearly, I am of Hispanic origin and my kids are half-Puerto Rican. But when it comes to the race category, what the heck do I mark? Our skin is white but most Puerto Ricans are a mix of Spanish/black and Taino Indian. What are others with multi-racial backgrounds doing?

I checked off hispanic and for race wrote in "mixed" because that's the truth. Like you we dominicans are pretty mixed so much so even within sibling groups there are major differences (like my dad being my skintone while his brother is pale with blue eyes and blondish hair.) Or my sis and brother being very white with dark hair (prompting questions about them being some sort of Japanese mix) while I look middle eastern/Indian.

For the kids I put in hispanic and mixed as well. The only whitey in this house is the hubs. LOL To be honest though the only kid that approximates my genotype is the little girl and even then she's several shades lighter than I am. My middle child has grayish/green/blue eyes and blonde hair in the summer, both boys are pretty pale. I too get the not so subtle questions wondering if my kids are mine when out with them.

[arivecchi]

I checked off hispanic and for race wrote in "mixed" because that's the truth. Like you we dominicans are pretty mixed so much so even within sibling groups there are major differences (like my dad being my skintone while his brother is pale with blue eyes and blondish hair.) Or my sis and brother being very white with dark hair (prompting questions about them being some sort of Japanese mix) while I look middle eastern/Indian. I like that suggestion. Off to change my response. :)

[maestramommy]

i am cuban and lebanese. DH is chinese, tawainese and korean. DD is cuban, lebanese, chinese, tawainese and korean. talk about multicultural :ROTFLMAO:

Wow! I would love to see your family tree!