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View Full Version : How does your income compare? POLL coming!



smiles33
03-27-2010, 11:45 PM
I found a Yahoo Finance article (http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/108460/how-your-income-stacks-up?mod=career-salary_negotiation) that breaks down Americans' income and it's pretty interesting. I always thought anything over $60K was pretty good, but we live in a high cost-of-living area and some folks have complained $100K isn't enough. $100,000 is still more than what 80% of Americans make! I think that's why so many of my high school classmates did not return here after college.

Anyhow, I'm guessing our board is probably in the top 25% or higher of income....Am I right?


Top 1% - over $410,096 AGI
Top 5% - over $160,041 AGI
Top 10% - over $113,018 AGI
Top 25% - over $66,532 AGI
Top 50% - over $32,878 AGI
Bottom 50% - under $32,879 AGI

elektra
03-28-2010, 12:01 AM
So household income? Or just individual?

kozachka
03-28-2010, 01:03 AM
Interesting breakdown. In the city where we currently rent the average household income is almost $120K. And when I asked my friends around here how much a family needs to make to have a middle class to upper middle class lifestyle estimates ranged between $150K and $250K depending on the kind of housing (own or rental) and debt one has. One of my friends even said that you need $300K. The cost of living at the SF Bay Area is high, so it's not like you'd be getting that much $120K, let alone $60K.

blisstwins
03-28-2010, 01:11 AM
You need 250k to live comfortably where I live. It sounds like a lot, but does not go far at all.

AnnieW625
03-28-2010, 01:14 AM
Interesting breakdown. In the city where we currently rent the average household income is almost $120K. And when I asked my friends around here how much a family needs to make to have a middle class to upper middle class lifestyle estimates ranged between $150K and $250K depending on the kind of housing (own or rental) and debt one has.

That's how it is here too. I don't think we make a whole lot of money because the COL is soo high. I definitely feel more middle class, but I have a really hard time believing that we are the norm for all top 10% of earners nationwide, I feel much more like we are in the top 25%. If we had moved to Oklahoma like we were this close to doing so in 2004 it would've been a miracle if I had gotten a job for the same amount of pay that I am doing now (instead of making 45K there like I was here I would've most likely been making about 30 to 35K, if that) simply because of COL (cheaper COL=cheaper wages). We would've still been very middle class, but because our salaries would've been less I would've felt much more in line voting for the top 25% vs. top 10% that we are considered here in So Cal. Here I know a lot more people who make more money than we do and they seem more like the top 10% of earners in the country because of what they can afford (nicer home, nicer cars, $10,000 buy in at club memberships, etc) vs. what we can afford (small home, middle of the road cars, and ballet/gym memberships at $130 per month total).

ETA: mine and DH's combined income is right around $125-130K, not great but average for two govt. employees, and it's stable and we really like that esp. in this economy. If we could ever sell our place and move back to Norcal we could get more for our dollar because we'd have either a bigger house for the same price as our house here in a better school district, or a newer smaller home with a smaller mortgage. It would all depend. If we moved out of state one of us would be out of work (most likely me) and depending on where were moved to (Colorado, Texas, or Portland area) we could definitely afford to live on one salary for a while.

SammyeGail
03-28-2010, 05:00 AM
Wish there was a better breakdown between the 66,532 & 113,018, thats alot of money! DH is close to in between. I always worked until I was pregnant. I never made alot, I was in my Jr. year when DH got a new job in another state (before we met I worked 2 jobs and took classes at night as I could afford to pay for them), it would be a year to get in-state tuition, by then I really loved my job. Then we moved to TN, another year's wait, plus we lost $15,000 on the sale of our old house. (ouch)

I think where we live our (well, DH's) income is great for a nice/decent life. The houses/subdivisions I always really wanted to live in were always $25+G out of our range.

I think other things factor in. Not complaining at all, but DH paid a chunk of child support up until about 10 months ago. He sends his son money for college expenses/life since his ex stuck DSS with a $400 monthly car lease, she promised to pay 1/2 but never did. DSS works 35 hrs a week, takes 4 classes and makes wonderful grades, I don't mind helping him at all! We know his mother doesn't.

We also have 2 car payments, one will be paid off in about a year and the other 9-2011, can't wait! They are high, only about $150 less than our house payment. DH made a very bad deal on a trade-in, I wan't there, the twins were 5 months old and I was home with them.

Also our twins are on a gluten and ceasen free diet, its expensive.

So for us, considering DH's gross income, taxes, monthly bills, what we have left over isn't much. We've lived on more in the past when he made alot less, LOL.

Can't wait till early fall of 2011, but DH and I realize the Mazda3 is a bit too small and know we will most likely have to get a mid-sized sedan :(.

vludmilla
03-28-2010, 08:00 AM
We're up there in income but we do not live at all like we are well off. We live a worse standard of living than many on this board. We are in a high COL area and a decent small house costs no less than 600k in a good school district with at least 11-12k in taxes. So, in my area, I would say 200k is the barest minimum for middle class living.

JTsMom
03-28-2010, 08:14 AM
Wow, very interesting poll! I always knew that there were a lot of high-income familes here, but I didn't realize it was as skewed as it is! We live in a low COL area, and it's just shocking to me to see some of these numbers.

o_mom
03-28-2010, 09:23 AM
Wow, very interesting poll! I always knew that there were a lot of high-income familes here, but I didn't realize it was as skewed as it is! We live in a low COL area, and it's just shocking to me to see some of these numbers.

I know that feeling! The ILs just don't get why we would want to stay here and not move to SoCal.... :p

wellyes
03-28-2010, 09:27 AM
It's so regional. I'm in Boston, 60k would only let you rent in a not-very-good neighborhood and you'd still be scraping by. In my hometown 60k would make you very very well off compared to almost everyone.

arivecchi
03-28-2010, 10:17 AM
We are in a high COL area and a decent small house costs no less than 600k in a good school district with at least 11-12k in taxes. So, in my area, I would say 200k is the barest minimum for middle class living.

It is very similar in the area of the city where I live, which explains why so many people move to the burbs. The COL is insane.

crl
03-28-2010, 10:42 AM
I think it would be interesting to see how the geographic spread relates to the income spread on this board. I've noticed a lot of posters from urban areas with high costs of living. We're pretty high up there on income, but we also live in a place where it would take a million or more to buy a fairly basic single family home with virtually no yard (depending on condition of the house and neighborhood, of course).

Catherine

Sillygirl
03-28-2010, 11:29 AM
I think this is the most interesting BBB poll I've ever seen. I didn't realize how severely the board skewed wealthy.

larig
03-28-2010, 11:42 AM
we more than comfortably on ~90,000 in seattle (I'm writing my dissertation and finished my research assistantship before DS was born, so I have no income). we own a small home, and have a 15 year mortgage, so we're paying a lot there. We have a 10 year old car, but DH works from home, as do I, so we don't have to spend very much on transportation, otherwise, the 15 year mortgage wouldn't be do-able. (it is amazing how much a family can save by have a telecommuting job, I highly recommend it). We have a decent amount of money to play around with every month on top of savings. But, DH has great benefits and insurance, so that helps.

We could easily move to DH's home town or mine (TN and IL respectively) and purchase a huge, nice house in cash from the proceeds of our home sale in Seattle (yes, we're still way above water) and then we'd have more money than we could spend, but we love it here, as tempting as it is to be able to buy a newer car.

jenfromnj
03-28-2010, 12:28 PM
We're up there in income but we do not live at all like we are well off. We live a worse standard of living than many on this board. We are in a high COL area and a decent small house costs no less than 600k in a good school district with at least 11-12k in taxes. So, in my area, I would say 200k is the barest minimum for middle class living.


It is very similar in the area of the city where I live, which explains why so many people move to the burbs. The COL is insane.

We are in a similar COL area, as well--unfortunately here, the COL is outrageous in the 'burbs, too, unless you move further from the city, which is the main reason why many people have long commutes into the city to work. (Friends of ours just came back to NJ after renting an apartment in Manhattan for 8 years --their building was going condo, and the asking price on their small 2 bedroom apt was seven figures--it was in a nice neighborhood, but still!)

If you had told me when I was in school what our household income would be and that it would only permit us to live in a fairly modest house and live a life that's by no means extravagant, I would not have believed it. But a good income doesn't go very far around here, with home prices, taxes, etc being what they are. Also the reason why so many from this area end up heading south to FL, NC and SC, where they can find better weather and non-insane housing prices.

Jenn27
03-28-2010, 12:42 PM
Whew! We won't be moving to CA unless DH is offered A LOT more money! WV has a very low COL, we don't make much, but we are not broke either. However, these numbers make me feel poor!!!

SnuggleBuggles
03-28-2010, 12:45 PM
I remember a few years back that a head hunter contacted dh about a job in CA. They said that the salary would be 6 figures. Umm, that is a large range. $100k is 6 figures and I knew that wouldn't go very far in Silicon Valley! Needless to say that that wasn't really followed up with.

Beth

wellyes
03-28-2010, 12:49 PM
I didn't realize how severely the board skewed wealthy. I don't know if I'd use the term wealthy- there plenty of places in the US where $150,000 / year income gets you a 1200 sq ft house and lots of shopping trips to Target and TJ Maxx. Just like people with 1/2 that income get in other places.

So why would anyone who makes that much chose to live somewhere so expensive? Lots of reasons. Family. Prosperous neighborhoods often (not always) = better schools.

For us it's because DEMAND for specialized work that pays well is in the higher COL areas. People in certain industries congregate in small geographic areas. There are a few scattered jobs in lower COL areas but -- if you get a job there, you have no options to move to another company unless you uproot the family.

niccig
03-28-2010, 01:34 PM
I don't know if I'd use the term wealthy- there plenty of places in the US where $150,000 / year income gets you a 1200 sq ft house and lots of shopping trips to Target and TJ Maxx. Just like people with 1/2 that income get in other places.

So why would anyone who makes that much chose to live somewhere so expensive? Lots of reasons. Family. Prosperous neighborhoods often (not always) = better schools.

For us it's because DEMAND for specialized work that pays well is in the higher COL areas. People in certain industries congregate in small geographic areas. There are a few scattered jobs in lower COL areas but -- if you get a job there, you have no options to move to another company unless you uproot the family.

We're in the same boat. SoCal is crazy expensive. Our income in MI, where DH's parents live, would be very wealthy. Here it's just average. We're here because of DH's work. The companies are all here and there is one in NYC. Up until the economy crash, a few people were telecommuting. They lived in cheaper COL but had their SoCal salaries. We were seriously considering that, but then the economy went bust, and DH's company laid off the telecommuters. Two of them saw the signs and moved back in time to keep their jobs. DH's salary has been cut 2 times, if it's cut much more, then we will start to struggle because of our mortgage, hence me looking for work too.

smiles33
03-28-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm actually not surprised by the results. Given the high education levels from my last poll and the bargain-shopping habits of people who frequent a BBB board, I assumed almost everyone here has a comfortable lifestyle that includes a little extra for "discretionary" purchases like an extra stroller. :D

I also knew it might spark the convo re: COL. Like I said, most of my peers in this area think $100K is not really enough. Yet the reality is that a TON of people make less than that and still live here. How? They don't live a "middle class lifestyle" (though I consider it more upper middle class but it seems everyone likes to say they're middle class):

- Multiple families live in one house (think grandparents, parents and praents' siblings) or if it's just 1 family they are renting a small apt so your housing costs aren't $70,000 a year like us (that includes property tax and HO insurance).
- No organic food unless it's cheaper than regular food, buying cheaper items like ground meat and beans as opposed to steaks and chicken breasts.
- Buying/inheriting the cheap $10 umbrella stroller, rickety crib, etc. Not the safest bet but free is free.
- Public transportation instead of personal cars.

The sad thing is that some of the folks earning so little in such a high COL area are working 2 jobs. They're doing stuff like cooking food, driving people to the airport, cleaning hotels, etc. It can be physically demanding work.

This is what my parents did when they immigrated to this country as my dad's PhD scholarship didn't provide enough money to support him AND his wife. Thus, he had to work a night shift job at a Chinese restaurant and my mom "illegally" worked at a bookstore as a cashier. To this day, nearly 40 years later, my dad only eats red meat because he couldn't afford it when he was younger and it's still a nice luxury for him.

I hope I don't sound patronizing/know-it-all. I wish I could say this to my students as I just want to provide a reality check when some of them complain about "only" making $60,000 if they choose to work at a nonprofit when they graduate from law school. That's why I went to look for those stats. Yes, many of us feel entitled to "middle class" lifestyles when you're highly educated, but $60,000/year is not a life sentence to poverty, especially when all your law school (and undergrad!) loans are covered by my school's very generous loan repayment program! OK, now that I have said that, I feel better and can go back on Monday and resume counseling students about how you don't have to eat Top Ramen everyday if you only make $60,000.

JoyNChrist
03-28-2010, 01:45 PM
It's so regional. I'm in Boston, 60k would only let you rent in a not-very-good neighborhood and you'd still be scraping by. In my hometown 60k would make you very very well off compared to almost everyone.

This. We're in the Top 25% range ($60-70K), but we live in southern Louisiana (low COL, rural area) and our income affords us a "nicer" lifestyle than many of the people in our town. Whereas if we moved to the Houston area to be closer to some of our family, we would have to do without a lot of the "extras" we enjoy now.

One of the many reasons we've never moved (DH and I both grew up here). Although of course there are trade-offs - education, entertainment, culture, etc.

gatorsmom
03-28-2010, 01:46 PM
I think it's crazy how COL varies from area to area. We had a HUGE, beautiful house in Texas before we moved to Minnesota. We had the option here to wayyyy downsize to get newish construction like we had in TX or find a house we were willing to remodel. Which is what we did ultimately. Anything comparable to our last house would have cost 2-3x as much. We moved from large metro area in Texas to a large Metro area in Minnesota so I cant' really say what the COL increase was due to, other than the crappy weather!

niccig
03-28-2010, 01:47 PM
I hope I don't sound patronizing/know-it-all. I wish I could say this to my students as I just want to provide a reality check when some of them complain about "only" making $60,000 if they choose to work at a nonprofit when they graduate from law school. That's why I went to look for those stats. Yes, many of us feel entitled to "middle class" lifestyles when you're highly educated, but $60,000/year is not a life sentence to poverty, especially when all your law school (and undergrad!) loans are covered by my school's very generous loan repayment program! OK, now that I have said that, I feel better and can go back on Monday and resume counseling students about how you don't have to eat Top Ramen everyday if you only make $60,000.

And, 60K goes a lot further if you're single and don't have family expenses.

Green22
03-28-2010, 02:26 PM
I hope I don't sound patronizing/know-it-all. I wish I could say this to my students as I just want to provide a reality check when some of them complain about "only" making $60,000 if they choose to work at a nonprofit when they graduate from law school. That's why I went to look for those stats. Yes, many of us feel entitled to "middle class" lifestyles when you're highly educated, but $60,000/year is not a life sentence to poverty, especially when all your law school (and undergrad!) loans are covered by my school's very generous loan repayment program! OK, now that I have said that, I feel better and can go back on Monday and resume counseling students about how you don't have to eat Top Ramen everyday if you only make $60,000.

You should tell them that in lower COL cities a non-profit attorney job starts at around 36K!! (For reference, I had 5 years experience as an attorney and after I lost my job was offered a job at a small private firm for 30K. Less than non-profits!) So yes, the average cost of a home might be 150, not 550. But 36K doesn't buy you even a 150 home!

I live in a supposedly low COL area, but it is easy to forget that low COL = lower pay. And while that may help with the housing market (should you be able to afford to get it in), it doesn't help with cars, gasoline, food. All that stuff costs just about the same as everywhere else (depending on where you shop). This was something I didn't realize until we lost 2/3 of our income when I was laid off. I thought we were just losing (1) my career (2) our house-purchasing dreams. I didn't realize that I would be looking for sales on Ho-Hos and juice just to make ends meet at the end of the month.

Nooknookmom
03-28-2010, 02:31 PM
We used to be in the top 10%, before the economy hit the construction industry like a lead balloon. Now it's more like the top 25%.

We live in a high COL area and even before taking the income hit, we always had to stay on top of our (business) game, because when the money came in, somehow it went right back out in overhead!

5 years ago I wanted to sell our house (at the top of the market) and pay (almost) cash for a place down South. Purchase some income property and possibly take our construction knowledge and do some flipping.

Our COL would have been much much lower yet we would have still been close to a major metro area and the beach. Too bad DH wasn't keen on my plan.

Now we are stuck in Hotel California. While I do love the perks (close beach, shopping, etc), DH does not partake in any of them-so I feel like its a waste for us to keep up with the COL.

We could have had a nice 2sty, 4 bedroom home on land for our girls, instead of a small bungalow.

**sigh**!

♥ms.pacman♥
03-28-2010, 03:05 PM
i agree with whoever said that $250k household income isn't *that* much in a very high COL area (Boston, SF Bay area, Los Angeles, etc). considering most of the decent homes would cost upwards of $750k a year, and most likely to get $250k you have to have 2 incomes, so you have to pay through the nose for childcare which is yet another monthly expense. WHen i lived in Boston area (few years ago) the childcare at the university (for grad students, professors) was $1800/mo (per child) and there was a waiting list. And that's just daycare, I'm sure a nanny would cost even more.

and sure, in low-COL areas you get paid less, but it's not like you get paid only 1/4 or even 1/2 the amount you would earn at the same job in a high-COL area, so IMO you always get more spending power by living in a low COL area. i would say the difference in house cost from where i live now to say, SF bay area is at least a factor of 4. where i live in tx for example u could buy a NEW 2500 square foot home for $250,000...in Bay Area the same size house (and NOT new, likely a few decades old) would cost closer to $1M, possibly more.

but of course, there are many other non-tangible benefits of living in high COL areas...culture, diversity, living close to family, proximity to topnotch universities/research centers, etc. most of my family is in the Bay Area and it does suck to have family live so far away. if weren't for the difference in COL (or if i or DH made so much $$ it didn't matter), i'd so be living in CA instead of where i do now...either SF or LA. there are days i totally miss driving down PCH after work and watching the sun set over the ocean...:cool: :boogie:

crl
03-28-2010, 04:13 PM
And while that may help with the housing market (should you be able to afford to get it in), it doesn't help with cars, gasoline, food. All that stuff costs just about the same as everywhere else (depending on where you shop).


I'm not sure that's exactly true. My impression is that groceries are more expensive here (San Francisco) and that was confirmed when my parents from Missouri went to the store with me to pick up a few items. They were appalled at the prices--at Safeway--and commented on one particular item that was twice as much as they pay at home. And I know gas is more here than in the Midwest. I think housing is the most obvious and maybe accounts for the biggest difference in COL, but other stuff is more expensive here too.

Catherine

♥ms.pacman♥
03-28-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm not sure that's exactly true. My impression is that groceries are more expensive here (San Francisco) and that was confirmed when my parents from Missouri went to the store with me to pick up a few items. They were appalled at the prices--at Safeway--and commented on one particular item that was twice as much as they pay at home. And I know gas is more here than in the Midwest. I think housing is the most obvious and maybe accounts for the biggest difference in COL, but other stuff is more expensive here too.

Catherine

definitely true. i know for a fact stuff like avg cost of eating out, gas, groceries are somewhat cheaper than in the bay area or in boston. sure, it's not a big difference as the housing cost, but it is still significant. when my parents come visit they are always shocked how cheap stuff is here.

JoyNChrist
03-28-2010, 04:38 PM
I live in a supposedly low COL area, but it is easy to forget that low COL = lower pay.

But that can be regional too. My husband works in industrial construction for the petroleum industry. So even though we live in a lower-COL area, he's able to have a higher-paying job because of all the plants in the South and petroleum work in the Gulf. His degree and training would actually probably secure him a lower-paying job in many higher-COL areas because of the proximity to industry.

So it all kind of depends on the particular situation.

vludmilla
03-28-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm not sure that's exactly true. My impression is that groceries are more expensive here (San Francisco) and that was confirmed when my parents from Missouri went to the store with me to pick up a few items. They were appalled at the prices--at Safeway--and commented on one particular item that was twice as much as they pay at home. And I know gas is more here than in the Midwest. I think housing is the most obvious and maybe accounts for the biggest difference in COL, but other stuff is more expensive here too.

Catherine

Oh, indeed. In a high COL area childcare, schools, recreation all cost more. Music lessons are double for me what they are for my friends in lower COL areas. Taxes are much higher, like an extra mortgage. Childcare is almost double. Water and electricity cost more. Restaurants cost more. High COL is not just the house expense.

wellyes
03-28-2010, 05:17 PM
i know for a fact stuff like avg cost of eating out, gas, groceries are somewhat cheaper than in the bay area or in boston. sure, it's not a big difference as the housing cost, but it is still significant. when my parents come visit they are always shocked how cheap stuff is here.Definitely true. I visited my folks in their very low COL area and stuff was definitely cheaper - same stuff, and in some cases same stores (K-Mart in particular). I wanted to buy up next season's wardrobe for DD and then fly it home with me ... even paying $25 to check the bag, I'd still save quite a bit.

OTOH the selection of specialized stuff in the grocery stores that I am accustomed to (gluten-free, organic, etc) is almost nonexistent where they live. I hear WalMart is going to offer a lot of organic stuff so that will help in the future I'm sure.

SnuggleBuggles
03-28-2010, 05:20 PM
The crappy problem for us is that we live in a low COL area and as much as I want to move to the Bay Area or Manhattan, even if salary could get us there I have a hard time justufying it. I know what I can get for the $ here vs there and it's hard to take. I just wish that I could bite the bullet and make it work. Too cheap for that though. My plan is to move there though when the kids are out of college. :) Something to look forward to because there are so many awesome things about living in one of those cities that I just want to experience. And, I can always hold out that some major windfall will come our way and we can just buy something with a big old wad of cash and call it a day. :)

Beth

crl
03-28-2010, 05:22 PM
Oh, indeed. In a high COL area childcare, schools, recreation all cost more. Music lessons are double for me what they are for my friends in lower COL areas. Taxes are much higher, like an extra mortgage. Childcare is almost double. Water and electricity cost more. Restaurants cost more. High COL is not just the house expense.

Yeah, I forget about child care because I'm a SAHM. But that's a very good point. And private schools here (SF) are insanely expensive, which just adds insult to injury when you consider the cost of housing and the iffiness of the public schools in the city. When we were living in a close in DC suburb, we actually priced out moving to the country and adding private school tuition and it would have been cheaper than staying close-in and using public schools. That was because private school tuition was so cheap out in the country.

Catherine

niccig
03-28-2010, 05:26 PM
The crappy problem for us is that we live in a low COL area and as much as I want to move to the Bay Area or Manhattan, even if salary could get us there I have a hard time justufying it. I know what I can get for the $ here vs there and it's hard to take. I just wish that I could bite the bullet and make it work. Too cheap for that though. My plan is to move there though when the kids are out of college. :) Something to look forward to because there are so many awesome things about living in one of those cities that I just want to experience. And, I can always hold out that some major windfall will come our way and we can just buy something with a big old wad of cash and call it a day. :)

Beth

We're the opposite. We'll move out of LA once DH retires. Our retirement nest egg will go a lot further in a lower COL area. If we stay here, we'll be downsizing that's for sure. Our neighbours retired and sold their house when their youngest graduated college. They were able to pay cash for house elsewhere and had extra money. Hopefully, we can do the same... it could take that long for house prices to come back up.

SnuggleBuggles
03-28-2010, 05:29 PM
We're the opposite. We'll move out of LA once DH retires. Our retirement nest egg will go a lot further in a lower COL area. If we stay here, we'll be downsizing that's for sure. Our neighbours retired and sold their house when their youngest graduated college. They were able to pay cash for house elsewhere and had extra money. Hopefully, we can do the same... it could take that long for house prices to come back up.

See that's the kind of practicality that keeps me from doing anything fun. :tongue5:

Beth

army_mom
03-28-2010, 07:51 PM
It is really interesting to read all of these posts. And definitely makes me want to stay out of your high COL areas! I just don't think I could stomach having to pay 750K for a modest home. My brother lives in SF area and their house is decent but I cringe because I know what 750K would get in areas we have lived (NC, AL, TX, KS, WI). Even though we move around a lot, our income always stays the same. We get an increase in our housing money if the COL is very high to help balance the extra expenses (but I don't think it would counter act THAT much though). We fall into the top 10% but I think we live very, very comfortably and can even put nearly 40K into investing/saving each year. We would never be able to do that in high COL areas. I'm so glad DH and I both like the midwest/southeast for living and would rather have a tractor than subway nearby!

baymom
03-28-2010, 08:11 PM
i agree with whoever said that $250k household income isn't *that* much in a very high COL area (Boston, SF Bay area, Los Angeles, etc). considering most of the decent homes would cost upwards of $750k a year, and most likely to get $250k you have to have 2 incomes, so you have to pay through the nose for childcare which is yet another monthly expense. WHen i lived in Boston area (few years ago) the childcare at the university (for grad students, professors) was $1800/mo (per child) and there was a waiting list. And that's just daycare, I'm sure a nanny would cost even more.

and sure, in low-COL areas you get paid less, but it's not like you get paid only 1/4 or even 1/2 the amount you would earn at the same job in a high-COL area, so IMO you always get more spending power by living in a low COL area. i would say the difference in house cost from where i live now to say, SF bay area is at least a factor of 4. where i live in tx for example u could buy a NEW 2500 square foot home for $250,000...in Bay Area the same size house (and NOT new, likely a few decades old) would cost closer to $1M, possibly more.

but of course, there are many other non-tangible benefits of living in high COL areas...culture, diversity, living close to family, proximity to topnotch universities/research centers, etc. most of my family is in the Bay Area and it does suck to have family live so far away. if weren't for the difference in COL (or if i or DH made so much $$ it didn't matter), i'd so be living in CA instead of where i do now...either SF or LA. there are days i totally miss driving down PCH after work and watching the sun set over the ocean...:cool: :boogie:

Well said! We live in SF Bay Area and while we make a lot, it isn't really a lot of spending power. We have family & friends that live in Atlanta and Dallas and I am always surprised at how low the COL is there...and their incomes are certainly not proportionately lower. Still, we feel lucky to live near family and in such an amazing part of the country. What I find surprising is that a lot of pp have intimated how it is equally expensive to live in Southern California. The majority of my family lives there (Orange County) and I always found that it is at least 30% cheaper to buy a house, groceries, dry cleaning, maid service, ect. down there... Perhaps I was misunderstanding....??

veronica
03-28-2010, 08:11 PM
Where we were before, our combined AGI was $150K+ and we were middle income.

Now that we have moved to our hometown and I stay home, we are at $65K and still middle income.

We only moved 3 hrs away within the same state. We were in the metro NYC area part of NJ and now in Southern Jersey. I really miss the money, not the rat race......


Another example of our change: We were paying $14K per year in property taxes and now pay $3K per year.

♥ms.pacman♥
03-28-2010, 09:28 PM
What I find surprising is that a lot of pp have intimated how it is equally expensive to live in Southern California. The majority of my family lives there (Orange County) and I always found that it is at least 30% cheaper to buy a house, groceries, dry cleaning, maid service, ect. down there... Perhaps I was misunderstanding....??

before moving to Los Angeles a few years ago i thought the same thing..that at least it wouldn't be as expensive as the SF Bay Area (where i grew up). i had friends who grew up in the OC (who now lived in Silicon Valley) who told me that where they grew up things were cheaper.... plus, i knew that SF/Northern Cal (and not SoCal) is just that one place that everyone refers to when they discuss high costs of living. But after living in Los Angeles for a year i found out it was just as expensive, at least in the area i lived/worked in. I worked in El Segundo/ Manhattan Beach area and noticed that houses were $$$$ there. i looked at real estate listings and my jaw dropped as to how expensive they were. i looked it up once, the median cost of a home in Manhattan Beach was $1.5 million or so. it was ridiculous. i remember looking at a condo (2 bedroom, about 1800 sq ft) near the Marina and it was $750k and it was near a noisy highway. bleh. i guess u could go a lot cheaper by moving to a place further in the valley or the desert or to someparts of the OC but we were unwilling to spend 2+ hrs a day in traffic to get that savings (jobs for me & DH were almost all in El Segundo area).

Jo..
03-28-2010, 09:42 PM
We live in OK with a lower COL. We are still in the top 25%, but NOT in the top 5-10%. We are single income with DH working. We made almost 4x our current salary in NYC with both of us working (slightly less than 300k) and less than half of our current salary in WV (40k) with only DH working. It was quite the jump, but 9/11 scared the CRAP out of us.

I feel comfortable, but not rich. I'm okay with that. :) If we hadn't saved enough while in NY to buy our house and cars outright, we'd feel more of a crunch.

I've never wanted anything that I could not have, and we are sensible with money.

In WV, we had a near mansion. The same money here in Tulsa bought us a small ranch home, and wouldn't buy SQUAT in NYC or CA.

scrooks
03-28-2010, 10:06 PM
I feel comfortable, but not rich. I'm okay with that. :) If we hadn't saved enough while in NY to buy our house and cars outright, we'd feel more of a crunch.

I've never wanted anything that I could not have, and we are sensible with money.

In WV, we had a near mansion. The same money here in Tulsa bought us a small ranch home, and wouldn't buy SQUAT in NYC or CA.

I think that is the ultimate benefit of living in a high COL area. You make more $$ and pay more in mortage but if you move away to a lower COL area you've bascially hit the jackpot with real estate. Moving from a modest $750K house in CA to a $750K house in the midwest is a huge difference.

pb&j
03-28-2010, 10:34 PM
So household income? Or just individual?

:yeahthat:

Armywife1stDr2nd
03-28-2010, 10:38 PM
I bet there is also an educational difference in this board vs other parenting boards which contributes to higher household incomes.

Armywife1stDr2nd
03-28-2010, 10:45 PM
I guess that was said already .... I just noticed the pages and pages that followed page 1 of the post. Very interesting indeed.

twowhat?
03-28-2010, 10:58 PM
My husband and I had the opportunity to move to SoCal a few years back. THANK GOODNESS we decided to stay where we are. We're in a relatively low COL large metro area, easy access to all the shopping you'd find in a high COL city including organics, gluten-free, etc. Theater, museums, music, art, etc are all easy access here. Great schools. The only thing "lacking" is "natural beauty". But we have the $$ to vacation to places with natural beauty and actually ENJOY it (unlike our friends who live in high COL areas who work ALL THE TIME and rarely get to enjoy where they live). I have no complaints. Our money definitely goes farther here. And if were had been in SoCal when I got pregnant with the twins, we would have been FREAKING OUT.

sunnyside
03-28-2010, 11:15 PM
It is really interesting.

I moved from the SF Bay area to Reno, NV. It's amazing how much further my dollars go. Luckily, my salary is great for Reno and you can buy a cute normal middle class house here for $200K. Lake Tahoe is free and in my backyard, and the COL is very very low to me after coming from SF. In fact, I still drive the 4 hours to SF to go to a show sometimes or visit friends, and I always feel like I'm just hemorrhaging money!

I don't even make that much money, and of course life is still a challenge, especially with the hit to the economy, but I am incredibly grateful that there are still places that the COL isn't so high.

HannaAddict
03-28-2010, 11:19 PM
we more than comfortably on ~90,000 in seattle (I'm writing my dissertation and finished my research assistantship before DS was born, so I have no income). we own a small home, and have a 15 year mortgage, so we're paying a lot there. we could spend, but we love it here, as tempting as it is to be able to buy a newer car.

I guess it really depends where in the city you are located and how long ago you bought a house. It would be hard to buy a condo at this time in our close-in neighborhood. We were making approx that when we moved to this neighborhood 15 years ago and barely afforded (but did put 20% down) a cute 2 bedroom craftsman for approx $220k on top of the hill. Our neighborhood has an "upper" and "lower" section with different demographics and feel (families vs urban singles). He was brand new lawyer at a large firm and I was at a non-profit and just about to start law school. Now I don't see how we would do it, sold that house last year for approx $650k to a CA transplant lawyer at a huge firm. Most of the time we had one car and no car payment. There are great public elementary schools but if you want smaller classes, private will run $15k a year for k-5th, it goes up to $25k for 6-12 grade (that freaks me out a bit).

elektra
03-29-2010, 02:39 AM
i agree with whoever said that $250k household income isn't *that* much in a very high COL area (Boston, SF Bay area, Los Angeles, etc). considering most of the decent homes would cost upwards of $750k a year, and most likely to get $250k you have to have 2 incomes, so you have to pay through the nose for childcare which is yet another monthly expense. WHen i lived in Boston area (few years ago) the childcare at the university (for grad students, professors) was $1800/mo (per child) and there was a waiting list. And that's just daycare, I'm sure a nanny would cost even more.

and sure, in low-COL areas you get paid less, but it's not like you get paid only 1/4 or even 1/2 the amount you would earn at the same job in a high-COL area, so IMO you always get more spending power by living in a low COL area. i would say the difference in house cost from where i live now to say, SF bay area is at least a factor of 4. where i live in tx for example u could buy a NEW 2500 square foot home for $250,000...in Bay Area the same size house (and NOT new, likely a few decades old) would cost closer to $1M, possibly more.

but of course, there are many other non-tangible benefits of living in high COL areas...culture, diversity, living close to family, proximity to topnotch universities/research centers, etc. most of my family is in the Bay Area and it does suck to have family live so far away. if weren't for the difference in COL (or if i or DH made so much $$ it didn't matter), i'd so be living in CA instead of where i do now...either SF or LA. there are days i totally miss driving down PCH after work and watching the sun set over the ocean...:cool: :boogie:

:yeahthat:
It's true that lower COL may equal lower pay, but higher COL doesn't equal a proportional increase in salary.
Right after I was hired for my new job in Santa Barbara, shortly after moving there in 2002, my new boss joked that it's almost like you are paying for the privilege of living there, with the lower salaries that are offered. Yes, I actually took a pay cut when I first started at my job in SB.
My concept of what an expensive house is or what a high salary is, is definitely skewed by living in SoCal almost my entire life. Yes, Orange County is cheaper than downtown SF or Manhattan for sure, but it ain't cheap either!
When y'all are talking here on the BBB about your 6-months savings in the bank, not carrying any debt, etc. I am always thinking :bag, because that is just not my reality. Yes our HHI is in one of the top categories here, but we are definitely not living the high life by any means.

And ms.pacman, I was just in SB last week for work and the drive along the beach was very nice! I can't really quantify how much it was worth $-wise, but it completely relaxed me after a day of long meetings. :)

smiles33
03-29-2010, 01:02 PM
oops, hit post by accident too soon. ignore this one!

smiles33
03-29-2010, 01:05 PM
A little late, but for elektra and rprav8r: Presumably household income, unless you don't file joint returns as they looked at tax returns. It's also adjusted gross income, so not just salary but also investment income.


On a different note, DH and I were just talking yesterday about retiring to a low COL area. We might be able to buy land with a pond so he can fish everyday. Plus, I assume we're only going to get more ornery as we age so it would be nice to have lots of acreage and not have to yell at kids running on our lawn. :D

AnnieW625
03-29-2010, 01:20 PM
I worked in El Segundo/ Manhattan Beach area and noticed that houses were $$$$ there. i looked at real estate listings and my jaw dropped as to how expensive they were. i looked it up once, the median cost of a home in Manhattan Beach was $1.5 million or so. it was ridiculous. i remember looking at a condo (2 bedroom, about 1800 sq ft) near the Marina and it was $750k and it was near a noisy highway. bleh. i guess u could go a lot cheaper by moving to a place further in the valley or the desert or to someparts of the OC but we were unwilling to spend 2+ hrs a day in traffic to get that savings (jobs for me & DH were almost all in El Segundo area).

Manhattan Beach, esp. in high real estate market times makes Beverly Hills look like a good deal! My cousins bought a house in Long Beach and both work in the El Segundo or Torrance area. Most people I know who work in that area live in Long Beach or even a little further south in Seal Beach.


:yeahthat:
My concept of what an expensive house is or what a high salary is, is definitely skewed by living in SoCal almost my entire life. Yes, Orange County is cheaper than downtown SF or Manhattan for sure, but it ain't cheap either!
When y'all are talking here on the BBB about your 6-months savings in the bank, not carrying any debt, etc. I am always thinking :bag, because that is just not my reality. Yes our HHI is in one of the top categories here, but we are definitely not living the high life by any means.

DH is originally from the dirt cheap part of So Cal (San Bernardino), but like me spent most of his life in Nor Cal (Sacramento area), but when we moved here in 2004 we weren't 100% suprised by the cost of living, but it had gone up quite a bit even in the years since I had not been living here; (lived in San Diego in college) so while we thought we could've gotten a 3 bed 2 bath home for $500K (which is more likely what you can get now) we had to settle for a 3 bed/1 bath for that price.

Elektra is right it's either no debt or six months saving. We chose the no credit card debt thing so we don't have access to 6 mos. savings in a regular savings account; we do have a fair amount of our other savings in 401K/457 plans though so I am thankful we have that, but you really can't have all of the above here either and it's kind of sad.

niccig
03-29-2010, 01:38 PM
[QUOTE=elektra;2676171
When y'all are talking here on the BBB about your 6-months savings in the bank, not carrying any debt, etc. I am always thinking :bag, because that is just not my reality. Yes our HHI is in one of the top categories here, but we are definitely not living the high life by any means.
[/QUOTE]

It's take us a few years to get there too. We get a tax refund, so we saved that and any of DH's overtime. We were also paying more on our HELOC, we kept paying more, but not as much and the extra went to emergency fund. I had to fight DH to do this, and he only agreed to shut me up. We had to compromise on the amount, it was more than DH wanted and less than I wanted. Last year, his company started laying people off and DH then wanted more in the emergency fund. Once we get this years tax refund, it'll be more than I had wanted and DH said we need to save more - so the economy and his work lay offs have changed his attitude in some ways...not all, but still an improvement.

You have to start small and then build it up over time. If you get a tax refund or any extra money that you're not expecting, you could put some towards credit card debt and then some to emergency fund. I think I read that some people suggest having a small amount for emergency fund, then get rid of the credit card debt and then build up more of the emergency fund.

shilo
03-29-2010, 02:34 PM
I think this is the most interesting BBB poll I've ever seen. I didn't realize how severely the board skewed wealthy.

i guess it really depends on how you're defining it, doesn't it? if you're talking true economic definitions, then yes, i guess it is pretty skewed in that direction around here.

but if you're talking lifestyle? not so much i think. it really is largely about geography. as much as it makes my strictly middle-class-soul cringe to admit it, on paper, we are that wealthy elite now i guess. it actually turns my stomach a bit this time of year when we take an accounting of all the numbers on paper, to be honest. but when you live in a city where the 'buy-in' for a 1200sf tear down is 1.3M, it's all tied up in your real-estate and it doesn't equate to a very different lifestyle at all. sure, we have enough left over to take a nice week or two of vacation a year and visit family. sure, we have enough left over to put away some savings for retirement and college and make some nice donations to charitable organizations we care about... but to do those things? like someone else already pointed out in this thread, i do a lot of my shopping at target and trader joes and discount clothing/shoe stores and shop the sales faithfully. and that's a pretty middle class (or maybe you could argue upper-middle i guess) _LIFESTYLE_ for sure.

Mom to Brandon and 2 cats
03-29-2010, 02:57 PM
You need 250k to live comfortably where I live. It sounds like a lot, but does not go far at all.

I'm with you. We make that much, combined income, but with our mortgage and daycare for the 3 kids, that's $5k/month out the door. Plus, groceries, utilities, gas (gas is more expensive here, too).

My DH says that although it sounds like we make alot, we're more like lower middle class. We're the only house on the block that doesn't have a gardener. And it shows.

--Jennifer