Would you be annoyed? friend and $

[blisstwins]

I can't tell if I am jealous or not...and I could use some advice on how you handle situations like the one at the root of this.
I have a friend who comes from a very wealthy family. She SAH and her husband used to do well, but not in the last few years due to decisions he made to value lifestyle over income. In his defense, his plans did not work out as he planned and they find themselves in a not good situation financially.

This is a very big issue in her life and she has not put he kid in classes and she watches every dime. When we are out and my kids want an ice pop I always pay for the 3 kids (my two plus hers) and have started to pick up lots of little expenses. Honestly, it is not something I mind because she is a good friend and I enjoy my time with her and don't always want to tell my kids no. I also gave her child a very generous bday gift (lessons in something with my kids this summer) because our children adore each other. Again, it's my pleasure and it made me feel good to be able to be generous. My kids don't have cousins really and they have grown up with his child.

Her parents are now understanding that her son is not able to do a lot and they are going to pay for a lot of classes etc...again, this is great. But she also mentioned that her family has not helped before, yadda, yadda...they only give the max fed. gift to her each year and she doesn't touch that money. Why would you cry poverty and accept a friend's generousity if you are getting and saving money like that? I could be jealous and a gift is a gift and it has made me happy to give, but I feel a little like a sucker. Also, what do you do when you are out with friends and your kids want to ride a pony or carolsel, have an ice, etc. and your friends won't let their kids (for money or other reasons). I am bad at handling these situations.

[Kungjo]

If I am feeling generous and can afford it, I pay for my kids and my friend's kids. However, most of the time we pay our own way. I pay for mine and they pay for theirs. We don't expect each other to pay for the other's kids, but it it happens, we don't make a big deal of it.

I have not been in a situation where my kids were denied something because my friend couldn't afford to pay for her kid's ride. I wouldn't mind paying though for her kid.

If you can afford it and don't have a problem with it, then do it. If not, then maybe you need to focus on free activities when you go out with your friend so you don't feel obligated to pay for her kid. Don't let it get to the point where you resent paying for your friend's kid because at that point, you may not want to hang out with her anymore.

[smiles33]

I can understand the feeling of being suckered. She let you assume things were so tight financially that she couldn't afford to buy popsicles for her kid or enroll him in classes. The max gift her parents can give her is about $26,000 ($13,000 from each parent, right?). That is a LOT of money. If she chooses to save that money, which is very practical, that's fine. However, now that you know she's choosing not to spend money (as opposed to just not having any), I'd personally just suggest interacting at free events.

Helping to subsidize the expenses of a good friend who has financial constraints is one thing, but paying for someone who is choosing to save her money is something else entirely. I personally feel like it's a bit disingenuous to accept your generosity just because she wants to save her money.

[happymomma]

When I go out with my friends, we alway pay our own way. I would feel wierd if my friend always paid for my kids. If my friend treat me or my kids, I usually treat them the next time. I guess I would feel that she does actually have money since they are saving and I'm not sure I would be comfortable paying all the times.

[edurnemk]

Well, I do understand that she may not want to touch the money her family gives her, because it's wiser to save it for an emergency, college for her son, etc. Especially if she doesn't know when things will get better for them, she probably doesn't want to spend it on minor things. What I'm tryinig to say is that she may have her reasons for saving that money, but if you feel angry of resentful for the sake of your friendship I think you should try to make other kinds of plans with free activities. Like playdates, going to the park, etc. Maybe she'd prefer it, too.

I think it's OK to pay for her son's ice cream once in a while, if you really want to do it. But you should not feel not obligated. I remember plenty of times as kid where my friends would get something and I wouldn't, for a variety of reasons, and I'm not traumatized or anything, kids have to learn to deal with frustration, too.

[wellyes]

Honestly it woudln't affect how I felt about the sitaution. She's using the gift for savings. I bet in her mind that money is pretty untouchable / unspendable -- locked awayfor the kids' future. I doubt she's thinking "eh, I have tons stashed away but if a friend is willing to pick up the tab why shouldn't I accept?"

Having said that, since you're hurt by it, I'd probably hold back on the generosity going forward. I think you can do that in completely good conscious. Buy the other kid ice cream sometimes, not every time. Generous birthday gifts are nice but so are $25 ones.

[KrisM]

I can understand the feeling of being suckered. She let you assume things were so tight financially that she couldn't afford to buy popsicles for her kid or enroll him in classes. The max gift her parents can give her is about $26,000 ($13,000 from each parent, right?). That is a LOT of money. If she chooses to save that money, which is very practical, that's fine. However, now that you know she's choosing not to spend money (as opposed to just not having any), I'd personally just suggest interacting at free events.

Helping to subsidize the expenses of a good friend who has financial constraints is one thing, but paying for someone who is choosing to save her money is something else entirely. I personally feel like it's a bit disingenuous to accept your generosity just because she wants to save her money.

That max gift is from each parent to each spouse, so it could actually be $52,000 being given!

I'd have a really hard time paying her way on things so she can just save that money.

[JBaxter]

That would be a real kicker for me. I understand saving but allowing a friend to pick up my tab when I get gifted 13 - 26 grand a year would not be something I could do.

[niccig]

I agree with the others. In our playgroup we have a range of incomes. We mostly meet at the park or someone's house and do a potluck meal. Occasionally we'll go to a museum, zoo, but we go at free times, or a few of us have memberships and bring the others in as our guests. Sometimes I have treated friend's child, but it's always been reciprocated at a latter time. We've all gone to LegoLand and DH bought DS something, and the other parents did not buy their child something. It was fine. I would not buy $$ classes as a birthday gift, as most of us keep presents under $30 and anything more than that would make the other person feel awkward.

It sounds like you feel bad as her child doesn't get the same outings/presents as your children get. While it's nice to think of others, you are not responsible for their child's entertainment all the time. I would offer only when you want to and not feel obligated to include her child if she isn't going to pay. I would though make get-togethers at free/cheap places. I do think it's inconsiderate to always suggest expensive places when you know someone can't afford it.

[niccig]

That max gift is from each parent to each spouse, so it could actually be $52,000 being given!

I'd have a really hard time paying her way on things so she can just save that money.

I agree. If she doesn't want to buy her child an ice cream, that is her decision. You can still buy one for your child.

[blisstwins]

We usually do do free stuff, but I have been treating when we do something a little $ because these are our main friends and I don't want to not do things all the time. She is very gracious and generous in many ways. I just feel a little like a sucker : (

[ezcc]

And, theoretically another $26,000 for her dc. I agree, if she's getting that kind of $ money from her parents you shouldn't feel the need to subsidize. I mean, people can choose to save or spend whatever portion of their income that they want but I wouldn't view that $ any differently from money she has earned. In her defense though, she may be trying to stick to a budget for the first time and spending on treats out isn't in her budget. I don't blame you for feeling a little deceived though.

[blisstwins]

I know it is 26K not more, but all the points remain the same.

[egoldber]

FWIW, when my DH was laid off we cut ALL non-essential expenditures. I know it was awkward for some of our friends and some thought we were being too cheap because we did still have savings, IRAs, 401K, etc. But that money was untouchable to us because if his business did not do well or I didn't find a job then we needed that money to keep our house. We had no idea how long he would be out of work.

But I would have never let a friend pay for my kids ice cream without being able to reciprocate. Someone paying for classes for my kid would make me incredibly uncomfortable, although if she didn't know about it in advance, I'm not sure what she could say or do without appearing ungracious.

ETA: And 26K sounds like a lot, but if you have ZERO income and a mortgage based on when you did NOT have zero income, it doesn't go very far.

[TwinFoxes]

I would feel odd in general picking up the tab for a friend because I felt they couldn't afford it. I'd feel like I was being condescending (not saying you were, it's what I'd be worried about though). I would pay for my own kids, and occasionally treat the other kid. I wouldn't let it become habit.

I guess I can kind of see how you feel like a sucker, but I agree with Beth, if you have a mortgage etc. based upon a certain salary, and that salary is gone, $26,000 isn't that much. Does she seem ungrateful? I doubt she's thinking "ha ha, someone else is paying for me!"

[blisstwins]

Does she seem ungrateful? I doubt she's thinking "ha ha, someone else is paying for me!"

No. She is very grateful and lovely in general. SHe has been having a very hard time lately on a couple of fronts and she has been watching every dollar so it has been my pleasure to treat for little things and even the one bigger, plus I want my kids to be able to do more than she can afford right now. I am just a little angry at myself because I think they are saving more than we do. Speaks to my own values and need to revisit them.

[Ceepa]

I can't imagine picking up the tab for someone repeatedly, let alone someone letting me.

I'd stick to free events, playdates.

[sste]

Yikes! I would be taken aback too. Maybe it affects things that this mom doesn't have any job (perhaps not any marketable job skills?) and her dh sounds like a spendthrift. In that case, I would certainly be hoarding any incoming money too because I would be worried about finding myself and my DC out on the street based on further bad financial moves by the dh.

But, as egoldber and a few other posters mentioned, I would NOT be accepting money on a regular basis from friends to buy my kids small things or to pay for classes. I am very surprised that your friend does that regularly. Based on the information provided, I wonder if she has grown to adulthood with a bit of sense that others will take care of her?? At the least, she seems to have put her financial well-being entirely in the hands of others at this point . . .

[blisstwins]

I am very surprised that your friend does that regularly. Based on the information provided, I wonder if she has grown to adulthood with a bit of sense that others will take care of her?? At the least, she seems to have put her financial well-being entirely in the hands of others at this point . . .


Yes, this is completely true. She grew up very wealthy and though she is OK without a lot, there is a lot she doesn't really get. Her husband is from poor background and is not at all a spendthrift--quite the opposite, which is why she is nervous about every penny. He keeps track of everything. I could not live like that for 1 minute, but she is OK with it. He just decided on a career change and quit a job without having his plan fully set up. Their income dipped enormously and they are in a house that stresses them out. Ultimately none of it is my business and this is a kind and wonderful woman--really. She has a great child and my children enjoy their friendship with her child as much as I enjoy her. I was just a fool for spending so much, but I come from a family where people are overly generous. I think it is an Italian-American trait--people love to "treat" others and now I feel a little like a fool. I learned my lesson.

[niccig]

I was just a fool for spending so much, but I come from a family where people are overly generous. I think it is an Italian-American trait--people love to "treat" others and now I feel a little like a fool. I learned my lesson.

Don't feel like a fool. You were being a very nice friend. As things aren't so dire for them, as in there is some help from family, I wouldn't be so worried about their financial situation. It sounds like her DH is very frugal and wouldn't like her spending money on ice cream for the kids. That is something that she has to work out with him. I would continue to see them, but don't offer to pick up the tab, or you could do free things like meet at your house/park. The kids can still spend time together, it doesn't have to always cost money.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Don't feel like a fool. You were being a very nice friend. As things aren't so dire for them, as in there is some help from family, I wouldn't be so worried about their financial situation. It sounds like her DH is very frugal and wouldn't like her spending money on ice cream for the kids. That is something that she has to work out with him. I would continue to see them, but don't offer to pick up the tab, or you could do free things like meet at your house/park. The kids can still spend time together, it doesn't have to always cost money.

:yeahthat:

You aren't a fool. What you have been doing is fine, just as it is fine to change over to not doing as many things.

If you are planning on going somewhere that will have treats you'll want to bu, why not just pack some treats to share instead so it isn't awkward? Bake some cookies or something maybe?

Beth

[MamaSnoo]

I agree with many PPs. If she is choosing to save, that is her perogative. But why should she assume that you will treat (and you do not need to save). If I were in your position, I would treat occasionally, but not always. Then she can choose to partcipate or not, or even treat herself sometimes for small things.

[AnnieW625]

I think it's a nice gesture that you enrolled your friends' kid in the class with your son, but I would not question what she does with her money at all, that should be none of your concern!

[pinkmomagain]

[QUOTE=blisstwins;2683642] I have been treating when we do something a little $ because these are our main friends and I don't want to not do things all the time. [QUOTE]

Well, you can still do things that are a little $ with your own family unit and do free things with this friend and her family. Maybe if she hears that you went here or there and those type of $ activities are important to her then she will start to reprioritize and spend money on those things. And if she doesn't, then you know that $ activities just aren't important to her and you won't feel so compelled to pay for her.

[blisstwins]

I think it's a nice gesture that you enrolled your friends' kid in the class with your son, but I would not question what she does with her money at all, that should be none of your concern!


You are 100% right. My mistake is that I did much more than I normally would because my friend has not been doing activities and has been cutting back and worrying about money constantly. They are totally within their rights to save, but I am a little upset with myself being moved by their money woes when they probably save more than we do.

[arivecchi]

I do not have anything else to add as all has been said. Just want to state that I completely get why you are upset and I would have felt used as well.

[[email protected]]

You are 100% right. My mistake is that I did much more than I normally would because my friend has not been doing activities and has been cutting back and worrying about money constantly. They are totally within their rights to save, but I am a little upset with myself being moved by their money woes when they probably save more than we do.


One thing you might consider is that they may not have easy access to the money--it might honestly be untouchable. The gift might be in other forms than cash like bonds, cds, land, stock, etc or directly deposited into a mutual fund account with tough penalties for withdrawals. The money may be given in trust to their son or with an understanding that it will be used for y purpose. Even if it isn't legally tied up, she might not want to jeopardize future payments by using it for something that wasn't the parent's intent--if my mom made regular payments to my kid's college fund--I wouldn't feel comfortable using it to pay my mortgage. The fact that her parents are now starting to help pay for classes rather than encouraging her to use the money to take care of their grandchild would reinforce my opinion that the prior "gifts" weren't free and clear but more like installments on an inheritance.

Either way, you aren't a sucker.

HTH,

Christine

[AnnieW625]

You are 100% right. My mistake is that I did much more than I normally would because my friend has not been doing activities and has been cutting back and worrying about money constantly. They are totally within their rights to save, but I am a little upset with myself being moved by their money woes when they probably save more than we do.

You know what some day something might happen and she'll remember your nice gesture so don't feel bad or used. If she is a true friend someday she'll be there for you when you least expect it.

[jjjo1112]

I would feel like I was misled. I would assume that if someone is suggesting that they don't have enough money for popsicles/classes, they certainly aren't saving 13-26 thousand per year. Once I found that out, I would most certainly stop buying/paying for their children unless I was very wealthy and saving at least that much for my children with extra left over. When we go out with our friends-we usually each pay for our own family. If we go out to eat-sometimes we take turns paying. If I was to pick up a child and bring them with us-I usually pay for them.

[kellyd]

See I wouldn't touch any of my childrens college funds or savings unless it was that or be faced w/ living on the streets. I certainly wouldn't dip into it for things like popsicles or fun lessons. That's not what the money is meant for.

OP I don't think you're being a sucker, and the only way she's taking advantage of you is if she EXPECTS you to pay for these things. From what you say that's not the case. :)

[smiles33]

See I wouldn't touch any of my childrens college funds or savings unless it was that or be faced w/ living on the streets. I certainly wouldn't dip into it for things like popsicles or fun lessons. That's not what the money is meant for.

OP I don't think you're being a sucker, and the only way she's taking advantage of you is if she EXPECTS you to pay for these things. From what you say that's not the case. :)

But, in OP's defense, the point is that her friend ACCEPTED OP's kind generosity knowing that OP felt badly that the friend "couldn't afford it." I still think the friend should have said, "Thanks for offering to treat my DC, but actually I'm not buying any popsicles/Gymboree classes because I'm investing all our extra money into DC's college fund." What you do with your money is your own business, but if someone offers to pay for your entertainment expenses based on limited facts (e.g., DH is unemployed/underemployed, she knows I'm super stressed about it and sees me cutting back on expenses), then it's not HONEST of you to accept it knowing you are still getting $26K for your savings.

I think the friend's mistake was to allow OP to think she's not buying those "treats" because her DH is unemployed and she's pinching pennies. I still think the onus was on the friend to graciously decline OP's offer because the friend SHOULD KNOW that OP was offering to be kind, not because she's got money to throw around to spend on anyone.

As OP pointed out, she and her family aren't saving as aggressively as this family, so I think that's part of the issue, too. If I were OP, I'd be kicking myself in frustration/annoyance, thinking "Here I am helping someone out who I thought had nothing. It turns out she was just super disciplined and allowed me to treat her while she saved money for her DC's college fund. I should have just put that money into my OWN kids' college fund."

[kellyd]

But, in OP's defense, the point is that her friend ACCEPTED OP's kind generosity knowing that OP felt badly that the friend "couldn't afford it." I still think the friend should have said, "Thanks for offering to treat my DC, but actually I'm not buying any popsicles/Gymboree classes because I'm investing all our extra money into DC's college fund." What you do with your money is your own business, but if someone offers to pay for your entertainment expenses based on limited facts (e.g., DH is unemployed/underemployed, she knows I'm super stressed about it and sees me cutting back on expenses), then it's not HONEST of you to accept it knowing you are still getting $26K for your savings.

I think the friend's mistake was to allow OP to think she's not buying those "treats" because her DH is unemployed and she's pinching pennies. I still think the onus was on the friend to graciously decline OP's offer because the friend SHOULD KNOW that OP was offering to be kind, not because she's got money to throw around to spend on anyone.

As OP pointed out, she and her family aren't saving as aggressively as this family, so I think that's part of the issue, too. If I were OP, I'd be kicking myself in frustration/annoyance, thinking "Here I am helping someone out who I thought had nothing. It turns out she was just super disciplined and allowed me to treat her while she saved money for her DC's college fund. I should have just put that money into my OWN kids' college fund."

I do understand what you're saying... but if the friend isn't the one doing the depositing... then it's never been her money to control. I may be reading more into it. But if the grandparents are gifting the money for savings they may be gifting it directly into the accounts... likely for the tax benefits that come with it. Therefore, the money never played into the friends budget, or even thoughts when it came to spending money she wasn't planning on. We don't always know when someone has put money into DS's savings until after the fact. It may be the same way with their family.

[blisstwins]

Smiles, you understood my feelings precisely.
I hear what everyone is saying about control issues and priorities and I don't have the full story and my friend is entitled to do whatever she wants with no explanation to me. I am just frustrated because the extra generousity on my part was because she talks about $ stress ALL THE TIME. As I said, she is a wonderful woman with a complicated DH and even tougher parents. I don't begrudge her at all. I am just a little frustrated with myself.

[vonfirmath]

I would feel like I was misled. I would assume that if someone is suggesting that they don't have enough money for popsicles/classes, they certainly aren't saving 13-26 thousand per year. Once I found that out, I would most certainly stop buying/paying for their children unless I was very wealthy and saving at least that much for my children with extra left over. When we go out with our friends-we usually each pay for our own family. If we go out to eat-sometimes we take turns paying. If I was to pick up a child and bring them with us-I usually pay for them.

Ah, but see, most of the people you see around you? What you see them buying? says nothing about how well they save, etc. The richest person I know lives in a condo, eats ramen, and is driving a 96 Subaru. She has a couple of season tickets to plays, but spends very little money otherwise on snacks and frivolities. She's a Microsoft millionaire and is able to live now without a job, just the volunteer work she does and the computer games she wants to play, because of her frugality.

[smiles33]

blisstwins: My advice is to not kick yourself and feel like you need to be suspicious of future opportunities to help. I think this shows what a kind and generous person you are and it's a nice example to show your DC. It was discretionary income for you even if you now wish you had invested it. I hope the good karma you've earned ultimately rewards you somehow.



Ah, but see, most of the people you see around you? What you see them buying? says nothing about how well they save, etc. The richest person I know lives in a condo, eats ramen, and is driving a 96 Subaru. She has a couple of season tickets to plays, but spends very little money otherwise on snacks and frivolities. She's a Microsoft millionaire and is able to live now without a job, just the volunteer work she does and the computer games she wants to play, because of her frugality.

True, but OP's friend is stressed about money and shares that with OP so it's not like OP assumed her friend was poor by her behavior. I know plenty of people like your Microsoft friend but they tend to be older. For example, my parents (immigrants who grew up so poor that it was a huge privilege when they would get to eat an entire egg by themselves as their special birthday treat) and DH's grandparents, who grew up in the Depression, never turn the heat higher than 58 degrees, re-use aluminum foil, rinse plastic sandwich bags, etc. Yet their net worth is 7 figures. Go figure. You can't take money with you but some people never feel comfortable enough to spend it.