New behavior/incentive program, can you see any downsides?

[DrSally]

So, I've been so sick of DS screaming and throwing a fit when it's time to pick up toys at night. This also carries onto resisting getting ready for bed. It becomes too much of a struggle. I decided to implement a chart/reward system for picking up nicely, meaning wo/screaming/whining, and a lot of prompts from me (I help him pick up). He gets one sticker each time he does this (could be his room, the playroom, whatever), and for each sticker, he gets one tv show (30 min). This has also cut down on the tv he watches, b/c he generally only earns 1 sticker, maybe 2 per day. It's easy, when I'm occupied, to keep turing on another show, usually it would be 1-3 shows per day = max 1.5 hours. Lately it's been 1 show or 30 min per day.

Also, I'm having him pick up at other times of the day, rather than the evening, b/c the evening is a bad time for patience on both our parts anyway. This seems to help. I decided, too, that I cannot cave, and turn on a show with no sticker, or this program will never work. I've been firm on it for a week and he generally accepts that when he's used his sticker (he crosses it off) he's done with tv. He's had a few fits about turning off the tv/begging, etc. (which happened anyway before) and has also said he doesn't like having to get stickers for tv.

My only concern is that this may be making tv seem "too valuable", when I'd rather he just forget about the tv and do other things, KWIM. But, even wo/the stickers, he loves his shows. In the end, this is helping with the cleaning up thing and also limiting his tv watching, so I think it's working well. It's also keeping me somewhat calmer, b/c when he starts begging for a show, I can just ask him to check his chart.

I suppose I could separate the 2 things, limiting tv and learning to pick up toys nicely, but right now, tv is his currency, so it seemed a natural pairing. Does anyone see any long term downsides to this? I figure as long as *I* don't make a big deal of it and get all ambivalent, that he'll just accept it, which he has. I've given DH strict orders, NO tv wo/a sticker!

[maestramommy]

Well, TV is Dora's huge currency too. While we don't do anything that structured, it's her lost privilege, or time-out alternative for misbehavior, which is usually arguing, or in an extreme case she got mad, threw her sippy cup at the babysitter, and had a tantrum while I was out. I have found this works extremely well, better than any other currency so far. Generally she only gets two ops to watch TV a day. And sometimes she willingly gives one up to do something else, like go outside to play after nap.

The trouble with controlling the length of time the kids watch is that their videos are of different lengths. So they could watch as little as 20 minutes, or as much as 90 minutes in a single sitting. In the past we set a timer for 30 minutes, but she really hated waiting for the buzzer to go off randomly. And I haven't found another way around it. It's much easier on the days we have to go out after breakfast. They don't seem to mind being interrupted when it's time to go out.

[DrSally]

I have thought about the timer thing in the past, but never used it. Right now it works for us to say one sticker= one show b/c he only wants to watch Dora or Diego, which I have Tivo'd, so they are all 30 min.

[JTsMom]

This might not be an issue for you guys, but here it would be- is there a strict definition for "picking up toys nicely"? I have to be insanely specific. With DS, it would turn into, "What if I only whine once?" "What if I leave one toy on the floor?" "What if I pick up the toys, but instead of putting them where they go, I put them on the dining room table?" :ROTFLMAO:

Another potential issue (again, could totally just be my DS) I could see happening is, "Well, I don't want to watch TV today, so I just won't pick up." Will you be ok with him choosing that option?

Can you tell nothing is easy here? LOL

[Leeannpk]

This might not be an issue for you guys, but here it would be- is there a strict definition for "picking up toys nicely"? I have to be insanely specific. With DS, it would turn into, "What if I only whine once?" "What if I leave one toy on the floor?" "What if I pick up the toys, but instead of putting them where they go, I put them on the dining room table?" :ROTFLMAO:

Another potential issue (again, could totally just be my DS) I could see happening is, "Well, I don't want to watch TV today, so I just won't pick up." Will you be ok with him choosing that option?

Can you tell nothing is easy here? LOL

This would be an issue in our house.

I am a big fan of natural consequences. I no longer argue about toys being picked up. If the kids choose not to pick them up, I will do it for them - but the toys they left out disappear for the next few days. They get stored in a plastic bin in the basement until they demonstrate their willingness to put things away.

[Indianamom2]

This would be an issue in our house.

I am a big fan of natural consequences. I no longer argue about toys being picked up. If the kids choose not to pick them up, I will do it for them - but the toys they left out disappear for the next few days. They get stored in a plastic bin in the basement until they demonstrate their willingness to put things away.

:yeahthat:

I finally hit that same point. There is currently quite a large bin of toys that haven't even been missed...makes me think we need to purge....

[DrSally]

This might not be an issue for you guys, but here it would be- is there a strict definition for "picking up toys nicely"? I have to be insanely specific. With DS, it would turn into, "What if I only whine once?" "What if I leave one toy on the floor?" "What if I pick up the toys, but instead of putting them where they go, I put them on the dining room table?" :ROTFLMAO:

Another potential issue (again, could totally just be my DS) I could see happening is, "Well, I don't want to watch TV today, so I just won't pick up." Will you be ok with him choosing that option?

Can you tell nothing is easy here? LOL

I define "nicely" for him--which means wo/me asking him a lot (I'll give him warnings as to the last time I'm going to ask (usually about 3 times, but if he's not in the mood, he's going to need a lot of that prodding and it just becomes a struggle. If he's feeling compliant, it usually takes no more than 2 times). We're "done" when I say we're done, and he knows what done looks like. If there's a few things left on the floor, I'll tell him to pick them up and he almost always will if he's gotten that far. A large part of it is just not having a never ending back and forth about it, but just doing it!

If he's really in an oppositional mood and says he's not going to pick up, I just say, that's too bad, I guess you can't have a sticker (and show) then. I'm fine with that, I'll just leave the mess for the next day :ROTFLMAO:
A couple times, we've run into a problem the next day when he starts begging for a show and having to remind him why he doesn't get a show. I have found the time lag to be somewhat of a problem, but he seems to be learning. He told Grandma about his new plan, how he earns stickers and gets shows for stickers. He's been talking to me about his plan too, so I think he's learning and realizes I'm serious.

I have done the thing where I take away the toys that aren't put away, but he has so many toys, he really doesn't seem to care. And, it usually is at a point where we're both frustrated, so it becomes a scene (me upset, him hanging on me, trying to take the toys back, him screaming, crying, kicking , etc).

[JTsMom]

I'd run with it as long as it's working then! If it becomes a problem, you can always try something else.

Taking toys away doesn't work here either. The only things that do are setting a timer (with no punishment or reward- it's just like a race), making a list of things to pick up, or doing it with him. After he's done cleaning up, can you send your DS over here to explain to Jason why reward systems are fun? :p

[missym]

I'm reading The Kazdin Method for Parenting the Defiant Child right now, and he advocates the use of positive reinforcement through rewards. He claims that most parents aren't structured or consistent enough with praise/rewards, which is why it's not as effective as it could be. Even if you don't consider your child "defiant," you might want to pick up the book and take a look at it. I like the concrete steps and examples he gives.

[egoldber]

Just a couple thoughts. For us, rewards have to be immediate, they can't be indefinitely in the future. It wasn't clear if the sticker is for TV in the evening or the next day. So what would work for us is something like, clean up toys now and then we'll watch one 30 minute show. If you don't clean up, then no show. I guess it would be up to you if you wanted to allow then to "bank" shows, but for my kids and especially my younger DD that would add too much abstractness to the reward.

Also, my older DD find these things very de-motivating. For her, praise at good effort is more rewarding than a "reward" later. What does sometimes work is a reward only system, where she earns points toward a prize with no opportunity to "lose" points. (This is why the green-yellow-red cards at school are a disaster for her.) So if she doesn't do the desired behavior, then it just takes longer, but she doesn't lose ground, so to speak.

Sometimes you just have to tweak things to make them work. And as long as you are OK with him choosing not to clean up and forfeiting TV, then the system is probably OK.

[DrSally]

I'm reading The Kazdin Method for Parenting the Defiant Child right now, and he advocates the use of positive reinforcement through rewards. He claims that most parents aren't structured or consistent enough with praise/rewards, which is why it's not as effective as it could be. Even if you don't consider your child "defiant," you might want to pick up the book and take a look at it. I like the concrete steps and examples he gives.

I like that book and have recommended it before. I've talked with him, and he's a very nice guy, very research/data driven. ITA that it's so about positive reinforcement (that's why I want him to earn the shows, not lose them or toys). He also gets a lot of praise and a hug after cleaning up (Kazdin mentions the importance of physical touch in praise). Also, I love how he talks about setting your child up for good behavior (antecedents).

[DrSally]

Just a couple thoughts. For us, rewards have to be immediate, they can't be indefinitely in the future.

Yep, I've been finding that it works much better for him to clean up right before the show to eliminate the time lag. He can bank them up though, too, if he cleans up at night (he knows no shows after supper, so he doesn't even ask). Plus, I've just figured out that cleaning up during the day is better than last thing in the evening, b/c everyone is less time pressured and cranky.