Do you struggle with a sense of entitlement over your standard of living?

[sste]

I don't know if this is large city dweller thing or if it affects everyone. I have recently been feeling a sense of frustrated (!) entitlement regarding my standard of living and in particular our housing options.

I have what I think are a reasonable list of housing wants: walking distance to public transportation, 50 minute or under door to door commute for BOTH of us, 2 bathrooms, a small, even very small yard, decent school for DS, a one-car garage, and not a complete cracker shack. This is easily a $700-900k proposition or more in my city - - the need for 50 min. commute and public transp. I can walk to drives up pricing. This level of spending would strain our rather aggressive savings and lock us into this location and generally put a crimp in our style so to speak . . . and its just not worth it to me. We are exploring renting but there is not a ton of Single family/townhome type stuff on the market. Our specialized jobs make moving geographically difficult, at least in the short-term.

Anyway, I don't know where we went wrong! DH and I make good money at good jobs, we have robust work ethics, impressive educational and job backgrounds. True, we didn't work hard to get specific material things, but rather because we love our work. But, at the same time, I did not contemplate DH cruising into age 40 living in our 1400 sq. foot, no garage, third floor WALK UP condo with two kids under the age of 3!!

I guess I just need to focus on getting rid of this nasty sense of entitlement that has been swamping me this past week . . .

[mommylamb]

I feel for you. D.C. is not quite as crazy a market as San Fran, but pretty close. Or at least it was in 2006 when we bought our house. We live further out than I would like to, and had to sacrifice the location for space. Fortunately, we're in a good school district. the only problem is that my commute can be hellish. And, we live in a town house with only a very small yard. It stinks. But, neither DH or I could ever find a job anywhere other than Washington. My job especially requires me to be here.

[hillview]

Yes it is really hard to relocate. I can understand the frustration. Good luck!
/hillary

[AnnieW625]

Oh I feel this way too and we live in the burbs. We have an 1100 sq. ft. home with one bathroom, three bedrooms, and while it does have a detached garage and a decent sized yard there have been soo many times I have told myself that I know we could do better for what we paid for our house. It's irritating knowing that people can now get a second bathroom and most likely larger bedrooms and about 300 more sq. ft. for the same price now.

Now if we moved home to Sacramento we could buy this place for $80K less than we paid for ours (which was our top price range when we lived up there too, although the place would've been a bit smaller then) and with a little paint and maybe some updated cabinents be really happy!:
http://www.coldwellbanker.com/servlet/PropertyListing?action=detail&ComColdwellbankerDataProperty_id=102513174&page=property&brand=CB

or be even more comfortable and on a little bit busier street for even less (and some new dry wall):
http://www.coldwellbanker.com/servlet/PropertyListing?action=detail&ComColdwellbankerDataProperty_id=102508849&page=property&brand=CB

[wellyes]

Yeah but - you get to live in San Francisco!


I live in a high COL area, nowhere near as bad as yours but still stuck in a small cape. In my head I have a sprawling 4-bed farmhouse or colonial just like everyone on TV. It bugs. Then I go visit my folks in their very very low COL area and I am reminded of why I make the sacrifices I do in order to live where I do. Great schools, parks and playgrounds everywhere, extremely diverse population, 1 hour to the beach or skiing or lake or mountain climbing, history everywhere, and so forth. For us there are so many benefits to living here. And when you hear stories from kids about growing up, it's always about their experiences, not the real estate anyway.

[sste]

Sadly, not a San Francisco poster!! I have to deal with crappy weather and (relatively) high prices in a big midwestern city. I think I would be a better sport about it if I adored where I lived but I am more in the "satisfied" camp with my city. Ironically, one of the advantages of living in this city was supposed to be that it would be more affordable than other large metro areas . . . and it is. But, when you add in childcare, savings, travel, etc. It just seems outlandish how much it costs to live.

[arivecchi]

Don't even get me started....I will shut up because I will only add to your sense of frustration.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I probably struggle with a sense of entitlement also - and maybe some envy as well. We're in a 1400 sf 50+yo home that backs up to a pretty major in town road (only 4 lanes, but still all the emergency vehicles/trucks travel on it) and ever single day, I think about/look at other homes wondering how we can't have something with a garage, with sidewalks, etc., like most everyone else we know. Granted, I'm a SAHM right now, but we both have masters degrees, plus 13 years in the workforce.

BUT... I have to remember that THIS is where I've been put for now, for whatever reason. My sense of entitlement and discontent is ONLY hurting me and those whom I come in contact with every day - mainly my DC... like if I'm always saying, "Oh, if we had more room, I would keep this room straighter or whatever." When DD repeats things like "we need a bigger house" or "let's burn this house down and sell it to the metal company (???)" that she's getting the message I'm thinking. Instead, I need to be more grateful for the fact that we HAVE a place to live, whatever size, location, etc. that comes with it. Not totally there yet.

Am I totally off-base about what you're saying? could be :)

[salsah]

i understand how you feel. we also live in a high cost of living area and still rent a $1000 sq ft duplex, one car garage, in a decent elementary school area but bad high school, we don't spend extravagantly (far below average, no new electronics, or cars, no vacations, no designer clothes, etc.), we are responsible, don't carry any debt, well educated (advanced degrees), dh works hard, etc. on paper, you would think we could live a nicer lifestyle. (and dh is already 40! it's not like we are just starting out.) if we moved out of the area, we could be much more comfortable. but with dh's career, it would be hard for him to find a comparable opportunity elsewhere.
i was a bit annoyed when one of dh's friends told him about their tenants. his friend has a rental property (in this same high col area), single family home with a pool, decent school district and they rent it to someone who qualifies for section 8. that person is living in a home that is more than twice the size of ours (thanks to section 8, the gov't (or our tax money) is paying their rent (twice what we pay for rent), and they have an allowance for utilities that is way more than what the owner ever spent when his family was living in the house (even while running the ac all day, all summer long -- which isn't even necessary in this area, most homes do not even have ac).
hearing that made me feel even worse. why do we even bother trying? but i have come to terms with it and just accept that it is our fate. we don't know God's plan for us, but this is part of it. (same for the section 8 family.) and God knows best. that's what works for me. that, and i have been considering moving out of this area or even out of the country. dh and i are talking about it, we just feel that it isn't worth living in a great area if there are so many reasons (other than COL) that is making living here difficult. i've never lived anywhere else so it is hard decision for me. dh will essentially have to give up his career so it is hard for him too. but if we will be happier, be able enjoy our lives and do what is best for our kids, then it may be worth it. the idea is still new so we still have a lot of research to do.

[mommylamb]

Sadly, not a San Francisco poster!! I have to deal with crappy weather and (relatively) high prices in a big midwestern city. I think I would be a better sport about it if I adored where I lived but I am more in the "satisfied" camp with my city. Ironically, one of the advantages of living in this city was supposed to be that it would be more affordable than other large metro areas . . . and it is. But, when you add in childcare, savings, travel, etc. It just seems outlandish how much it costs to live.

I totally thought you were from San Francisco... not sure why... maybe I was mixing you up with someone else.

ETA: I think the reason I get that sense of entitlement feeling is that I look around at what I could buy now for what I spent on our house and it makes me want it... it sucks to buy at close to the top of the market and then see everything come down.

[salsah]

oh, i just remembered another one that make me feel bad (sorry i'm not helping here, op). dh knows someone (who lives in a other area of course), that has a garage twice the size of our home! and it isn't because he is crazy rich (i know people who are crazy wealthy and wouldn't be shocked at all by that even in our area), but it is because he lives in a lower COL area.

we just need to decide what is more important to us, the area or the home.

[boolady]

I struggle with this. A lot. And we're not talking about near the cost of living you're dealing with. I just struggle with why is it so hard for a family with two WOH parents (one of whom works because finances require it-- me!) to have what I used to consider your "average" family home in a "nice" town. I'm not talking about a million dollar home, I'm talking about a 3-4 bedroom, family room, nice yard, maybe a finished basement or attic home where I can stay until they carry me out in a bag. I'm talking w/in 1 hour of each of our workplaces, etc. I don't know. Maybe it's as a result of our choices...we do save for the future and wouldn't be comfortable using up our savings, but still--- is that so unreasonable? To have a very reasonable family home and be able to save some for retirement and college, since we have 2 incomes? ETA: Maybe it's where we live. We live in NJ, but not in the most expensive parts (though not in the least expensive parts either). Unfortunately, I am required to live in-state for my job, and I'm not leaving it any time soon.

Ugh. I don't want to think about this too much. I just get irritable!

[C99]

Those prices are WAY too low for San Francisco! I think you're looking at around 1.2M for what sste's describing in San Francisco. My friend has a 1-bedroom, 1-bath condo in Laurel Heights and she paid $395K this year.

My DH has expectations that border on the unreasonable for Chicago's housing stock. He really wants a bath ensuite, which is just not realistic for the city and our budget. If it makes you feel any better, we live in a 1400 sf single-family house with a small yard and a garage, but it's only got 1.5 baths. It's under 50 minutes for both of us to commute to work and 5 minutes from the L, but nowhere near the lake.

We moved TO Chicago FROM San Francisco in 2002 on the theory that we could afford to buy a house here. We could, but just barely. I still had sticker shock when we looked in summer 2002, and that was after a year of cruising teeny, tiny 1-room (loft) condos for 1/2 million dollars in San Francisco.

That said, I think most people who are listing their homes in Chicago these days were high when they determined their selling prices. There are houses being foreclosed in my neighborhood that are selling for less than $100K and three blocks away, the listings start at $900K.

[vludmilla]

I feel for you. DH and I are doctoral level psychologists with good jobs. We are super frugal and have saved a large downpayment (as much as 35% depending on cost of the house) and we are STILL struggling to buy a decent house. It feels pathetic that we are professionals with advanced degrees and a basic 3/2 bath home with 1 car garage should cost 700k with 16k in taxes. At times I feel like I am acting entitled and at other times I feel justified in my frustration. DH and I should be homeowners and it shouldn't put us into major debt. I don't think it should be normal to have to spend 40% of our net income on mortgage, taxes and insurance but around here it does.

[MontrealMum]

I totally hear you. Those prices are certainly accurate, or maybe even low, for what you'd find here with that description. And that's why we're all cramped in here still :( I remember a few years back my dad saying when we were driving around once, why don't you buy this, or that....and on and on. I finally told him how much the teeny tiny but standalone house with postage stamp yard and garage cost and he just about fell over. The house I grew up in - standard, 4 bdr. 2 full baths, barely two stall garage, older midwestern in a mid-sized town - would easily be 1.5 mil. here. Easily.

It's so hard not to get discouraged, and don't even get me started on the comparison game. Just don't go there :hug:

[elektra]

Totally. I feel like a big whiner but when we were looking for houses, it baffled my mind that we could barely afford a 3-4 br house in a nice neighborhood with good schools. DH and I both have decent paying jobs.
Our mortgage is a huge chunk of our monthly net pay.

[niccig]

Not a sense of entitlement, but :crying: and :barf: that where we live our dollars go much less. We're in high COL area too, and on DH's very good income, we can't afford a home like you could elsewhere. DH grew up in Detroit surburbs and we visited ILs 3 months after buying our CA ranch. With what we paid here, we could have had 4-5 bedrooms, den/office/finished basement on the LAKE with a boathouse and probalby the boat as well.

But this is the price we pay to live here. We're here because DH's work is the entertainment industry and all the companies in his field are only located here. So while I do get annoyed at our COL, I am thankful that we do have the home/life that we have. Many people here are struggling by with much less. Yes, it would be nice to have an extra bedrom - we only have 2 bedrooms, but we're OK with what we have, as to get more is way more than we're comfortable spending. And less house, means less space needing to be cleaned. Friends in Detroit have FOUR bathrooms, I'm glad I only have to clean 1 and 3/4 bathrooms. We did consider moving to lower COL as DH's company had a few people telecommuting - that would have been ideal. High COL salary in low COL area. BUT, they've since laid off the telecommuters or they had to move back. So, we've decided to make the best of where we live and our house, as this is what we've got.

[vonfirmath]

My mother spent her JH/HS plus years, in Columbus, OH, in a 1400 sq ft home with 6 people, 1 bathroom (3 adults, 3 children. Though she shared a room with her grandmother and her sister until she married my dad and moved out). They did have a slightly larger than postage stamp yard, but no garage. Both of her parents worked, post-World War II.

Her father grew up in a home that was just a little bigger, with 7 kids. But they also had a barn and some acres of land.

I think it is only more recently we have come to feel entitled to more space.

ETA: And this is the home they had at the end of life. The one I knew when we went back to visit the grandparents.

[arivecchi]

That said, I think most people who are listing their homes in Chicago these days were high when they determined their selling prices. There are houses being foreclosed in my neighborhood that are selling for less than $100K and three blocks away, the listings start at $900K. That makes sense for some adjoining neighborhoods in Chicago. There are huge discrepancies in the prices for houses that are a mere few blocks away from ours just because they are south of a major street and the flavor of the neighborhood is completely different once you cross that street. It does not necessarily mean that the sellers are unrealistic.

[LarsMal]

Oh yeah...big time! Mine stems from the fact that we HAD it and now we don't! DH gets on me all the time for it, too, but I can't help it. If we had gone from our first townhouse into this house I would probably feel completely different. But...the fact that we had our dream house and gave it up to move up here, losing over 100K in our equity because of the market, forcing us to buy something much smaller than we used to have is killing me. DH took a job with a significant pay cut (by choice- for more job security). I know I sound like a spoiled brat- especially since I don't work- but this isn't exactly where I pictured us at this point.

So yeah, I have problems with it, too! Doesn't help that I walk out my front door and look at the house that I *want* to be in, but probably never will be. Maybe when I go back to work in a few years...at which point I probably won't want to move because I won't be in the house all day to complain about it!!!

ETA: The good thing about it, which I keep reminding myself of, is that this place is a lot easier to clean and our utilities are practically half of what the used to be.

[sste]

Hmmmm . . . that is hopeful that maybe some of the inner suburbs/out city n'hoods I am looking in will level off.

I think this is probably wrapped up in feeling a little ambivalent about the city I live in which is far from my family and also not great for the outdoor stuff dh and I enjoy. Though it is a wonderful city on its own terms. I probably would be willing to throw down the amounts I mentioned if it was my ideal location and I envisioned being there for 30-plus years to justify a tight budget for a while. Right now I feel like we can't secure decent housing unless we buy and if we buy at these prices I feel like I am really setting myself up for not being able to move in the event something else comes along that would suit us better. On the other hand I hate feeling like I am always waiting for someplace/something in the future rather than settling into my life in the present.

Vonfirmath, that is a good point about changing expectations of size. The size is an issue for me because a quiet home office on a separate floor would enable less commuting/more working at home . . . what is really killing me is the three flights of stairs.

[ThreeofUs]

I think I would be a better sport about it if I adored where I lived but I am more in the "satisfied" camp with my city. Ironically, one of the advantages of living in this city was supposed to be that it would be more affordable than other large metro areas . . . and it is. But, when you add in childcare, savings, travel, etc. It just seems outlandish how much it costs to live.


:yeahthat: Oh my gosh so absolutely. In and then out just like a freakin' river. With 2 kids it's really gotten out of hand.


ETA: But we make the choice to have me stay home, too, while putting our kids in private school. So I guess we're trying to make it work for a couple more years, and then I can go back to work. (Love my kids but oh, my, do I miss work!)

[SnuggleBuggles]

Sadly, not a San Francisco poster!! I have to deal with crappy weather and (relatively) high prices in a big midwestern city. I think I would be a better sport about it if I adored where I lived but I am more in the "satisfied" camp with my city. Ironically, one of the advantages of living in this city was supposed to be that it would be more affordable than other large metro areas . . . and it is. But, when you add in childcare, savings, travel, etc. It just seems outlandish how much it costs to live.

But, I think it is a lot about priorities. You have decided to spend $ on travel while other people don't, for example. All along the way there are choices that can free up some things and make them more comfortable while making others less. You need to decide if all of the things you choose to spend money on are things that really merit the amount you are putting towards them. Perhaps you could readjust where the money is allocated.

I think so many of us "want it all" and that just isn't going to happen. I don't think you can ever have it all so it becomes an unrealistic goal that can totally consume you.

Of course, I feel like we should have more sometimes and I wonder what I should do. For us I know we spend too much on preschool. I am just going to suck it up for 3 more years but I sure look forward to having that money freed up for retirement savings and travel.

Beth

[hellokitty]

We live in a low COL, but still, DH and I have had some of the same thoughts as to, "what are we doing wrong?" Both of us are college educated, DH's job pays well, and I'm currently a sahm and we don't live very extravagantly. There are ppl in our area that seem to be living much better than we are, nicer cars, houses, eating out, etc. than we are working factory jobs! We keep reminding ourselves that a lot of ppl live beyond their means and are up to their eyeballs in credit. We sometimes joke that we would have been better not going to college and job working at GM right out of high school.

[sste]

But, I think it is a lot about priorities. You have decided to spend $ on travel while other people don't, for example. All along the way there are choices that can free up some things and make them more comfortable while making others less. You need to decide if all of the things you choose to spend money on are things that really merit the amount you are putting towards them. Perhaps you could readjust where the money is allocated.

I think so many of us "want it all" and that just isn't going to happen. I don't think you can ever have it all so it becomes an unrealistic goal that can totally consume you.

Beth

These are wise words! I am just a "maximizer" by nature and unfortunately can't just be happy with a great family and career. Oh no, that would be too easy! I guess I am not sure where to shift our priorities in terms of spending. At least sixty percent of our travel expenses are to visit my family b/c my mother can't travel due to dialysis, DH and I really need topflight childcare to sustain two woth careers, and we could not function without cleaning help and takeout at least once per week. The reality is that never going on vacation or not eating lunch out from now until my retirement would not put an appreciable dent in the kind of mortgage payments I am talking about!! It is depressing.

If I think about it, our "indulgence" is really our careers. DH or I could make double our incomes at least in the private sector. And we could make our same incomes in a cheap COL place. But, it is unlikely though not impossible that we could get, simultaneously, two highly specialized jobs in a lower COL place that would be a really fun, outdoorsy place to live.

[elektra]

These are wise words! I am just a "maximizer" by nature and unfortunately can't just be happy with a great family and career. Oh no, that would be too easy! I guess I am not sure where to shift our priorities in terms of spending. At least sixty percent of our travel expenses are to visit my family b/c my mother can't travel due to dialysis, DH and I really need topflight childcare to sustain two woth careers, and we could not function without cleaning help and takeout at least once per week. The reality is that never going on vacation or not eating lunch out from now until my retirement would not put an appreciable dent in the kind of mortgage payments I am talking about!! It is depressing.

If I think about it, our "indulgence" is really our careers. DH or I could make double our incomes at least in the private sector. And we could make our same incomes in a cheap COL place. But, it is unlikely though not impossible that we could get, simultaneously, two highly specialized jobs in a lower COL place that would be a really fun, outdoorsy place to live.

sste- can I just tell you that I love reading your posts! They are so analytical, and sometimes I just crack up about how objective you can be. I need you to give me a life makeover please- isolate MY indulgences, analyze my work/life balance ratio, evaluate my salary against my mortgage, look at my life insurance premiums and then analyze how unhealthy I am to determine life expectancy, etc.,.... and then give me a list of next steps please. :)

[NancyJ_redo]

sste- can I just tell you that I love reading your posts! They are so analytical, and sometimes I just crack up about how objective you can be. I need you to give me a life makeover please- isolate MY indulgences, analyze my work/life balance ratio, evaluate my salary against my mortgage, look at my life insurance premiums and then analyze how unhealthy I am to determine life expectancy, etc.,.... and then give me a list of next steps please. :)

:yeahthat: I've been meaning to tell you SSTE how much I enjoy your posts, but what the heck, I'll add it here. Your posts appeal to my analytical side :D

[arivecchi]

sste- can I just tell you that I love reading your posts! They are so analytical, and sometimes I just crack up about how objective you can be. I need you to give me a life makeover please- isolate MY indulgences, analyze my work/life balance ratio, evaluate my salary against my mortgage, look at my life insurance premiums and then analyze how unhealthy I am to determine life expectancy, etc.,.... and then give me a list of next steps please. :) No! I don't want to share my personal adviser! She rocks!

LarsMal, looking at a similar situation here re: equity. I kinda feel like I have been working hard for 10 years for nothing and I feel like I should have more because I busted my a$$ to go to good schools and work at great firms. I think the feelings of "entitlement" come into play when you do what previous generations did to have a nice lifestyle only to have the playing field completely shifted in this new economy.

[sste]

Aaaawwww, you guys are too nice. :) There is nothing like a work deadline and relatives visiting to drive one to the office computer. I am analyzing everything in sight . . . other than my actual work project!

[scrooks]

We live in a low COL, but still, DH and I have had some of the same thoughts as to, "what are we doing wrong?" Both of us are college educated, DH's job pays well, and I'm currently a sahm and we don't live very extravagantly. There are ppl in our area that seem to be living much better than we are, nicer cars, houses, eating out, etc. than we are working factory jobs! We keep reminding ourselves that a lot of ppl live beyond their means and are up to their eyeballs in credit. We sometimes joke that we would have been better not going to college and job working at GM right out of high school.
:yeahthat: Same thoughts in our house. DH does well and I work part time (not so much for the $$ but for my sanity :ROTFLMAO:) and everyone else seems to be living it up but us....

[MontrealMum]

LarsMal, looking at a similar situation here re: equity. I kinda feel like I have been working hard for 10 years for nothing and I feel like I should have more because I busted my a$$ to go to good schools and work at great firms. I think the feelings of "entitlement" come into play when you do what previous generations did to have a nice lifestyle only to have the playing field completely shifted in this new economy.

I think this is a huge part of it. Doesn't make it right, no, certainly many make do with far less, but it does make it hard to take some days.

It's even harder to hear that we should compromise more (not from anyone in particular, but that's just the general advice floating around out there, YKWIM?). We basically don't vacation, we don't eat out, we don't buy $5 coffees. Our biggest "frill" is basic cable. We've trimmed and trimmed and trimmed. Our last "real" vacation cost about half of what one month's mortage payment would be on a post-war style house here. Not much of a dent!

Sure, we could make some changes too, like move far out enough to be able to afford a modest detached house with yard. And give DH an 1 1/2 or more car commute each way, lose DS' cheap but good daycare/preeschool for a pricey private one, as well as forcing both of us to drive everywhere because there's little to no public transit that far out. Basically, in the burbs here, housing prices would be way down, but many of our other costs would be way up. Don't think we haven't thought about all the pluses and minuses of where we currently live, and what would happen if we moved. So far, the pluses of living in the city outweigh the minuses of living in the burbs.

[KrisM]

We live in a low COL, but still, DH and I have had some of the same thoughts as to, "what are we doing wrong?" Both of us are college educated, DH's job pays well, and I'm currently a sahm and we don't live very extravagantly. There are ppl in our area that seem to be living much better than we are, nicer cars, houses, eating out, etc. than we are working factory jobs! We keep reminding ourselves that a lot of ppl live beyond their means and are up to their eyeballs in credit. We sometimes joke that we would have been better not going to college and job working at GM right out of high school.


I think that's probably a big part of it. I have a good friend who has a really nice, big house and newer cars, and travels, etc. They both work and I know about what they make. We make about 1/2 of that, since I am a SAHM. But, I know they have credit card debt, zero house equity, car loans, etc and we don't. Sure, they have a better lifestyle "for the moment", but I know we are better in the long-term. It doesn't make me less envious of their fancy vacations though :).

[tarahsolazy]

I think that's probably a big part of it. I have a good friend who has a really nice, big house and newer cars, and travels, etc. They both work and I know about what they make. We make about 1/2 of that, since I am a SAHM. But, I know they have credit card debt, zero house equity, car loans, etc and we don't. Sure, they have a better lifestyle "for the moment", but I know we are better in the long-term. It doesn't make me less envious of their fancy vacations though :).


This is where I'm at, as well. We have done all the 'right' things, like living in a much cheaper house than we 'could' buy, no car debt, no credit card debt, fully funding retirement and college funds, not buying new electronics if our current ones work, no fancy cell phones, etc. I know we've got it right for the long term, but we can't afford a vacation that involves airfare for 4, which kind of sucks.

[maestramommy]

To the OP, if that's what you call entitled, then Dh and I are obscenely entitled. Which is why we left SoCal for NH. We refused to pay $700K for a 1800 sq ft house on a teeny plot of land, in a state where schools are not known to be that good. Our city schools were okay, but I've stayed in touch with friends from there, and it's going downhill fast because of budget problems. And if we shelled out for a house (by reeeeeeally stretching) there's no way we could afford private school. So Dh said, to hell with that, we're leaving.

We are thankful every day that we were able to make this move, and have the standard of living we wanted. There are some sacrifices we had to make, diversity being one of them, proximity to family being another. But oh, it is so worth it. The schools here are awesome, I didn't have to pay $$$ for preschool, and didn't have to jump through any hoops to get in either. We don't have to drive an hour in heavy traffic every time we want to go anywhere.

It feels funny to say this, but out here we would be considered rather affluent, even though Dh makes much less than he did in SoCal. You just get a lot more for your money here. Not to say we aren't frugal, because we are, very frugal. Always have been, esp. last year. But we still manage to live quite comfortably, and don't have to stress over a lot of things we might have if we had stayed in SoCal. For one thing, we really dodged a bullet with preschool. I had NO idea we were supposed to be looking and applying so far in advance.

[sste]

I know we've got it right for the long term, but we can't afford a vacation that involves airfare for 4, which kind of sucks.


Tarahsolazy, we manage 1 or 2 nice family vacations per year through a few different strategies. First, if you can religiously pay off your credit card on time, every time, for decades then get an airline miles credit card and charge every last thing you spend. Even better is if you switch cards every few years to take advantage of the initial x thousand miles free promotion. That, combined with business travel miles, usually nets us 2 free tickets a year. Second, we piggyback family travel onto a conference with a great location - - the best method is to have the family come out the last day or two of the conference and then stay an additional two or so days. Slight reduction on airfare, cuts hotel expense in half. Last, we are now exploring the cottage rental with another family which can be pretty affordable.

Anyway, dh and I are in a very similar boat to what you describe in terms of long-range sacrifices and sometimes questioning the short-range tradeoffs.

[AnnieW625]

My mother spent her JH/HS plus years, in Columbus, OH, in a 1400 sq ft home with 6 people, 1 bathroom (3 adults, 3 children. Though she shared a room with her grandmother and her sister until she married my dad and moved out). They did have a slightly larger than postage stamp yard, but no garage. Both of her parents worked, post-World War II.


This was very common in our neighborhood too and people raised two, three and four kids in homes very close to ours so when I think about it that way it makes me realize that I KNOW we can raise two kids in a house this size.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This is really timely. I think it's a pretty neat way of looking at things and is kind of helping me think about my goals:
"...Well, for me, it's all about the bigger financial decisions in life. I rail against the latte factor ... for 20 years, pundits have been saying that if you give up your daily Starbucks cup and bank the money, you can attain financial security. That may work on paper, but I don't think it works that way in reality, for most people. One [of the bigger decisions] is housing. I'm a big believer in finishing in your starter home: Buy a modest home when you're first starting out and ignore people who tell you not to pay it off right away."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-to-Be-a-Savvy-usnews-3454225752.html?x=0

Beth

[scrooks]

This is really timely. I think it's a pretty neat way of looking at things and is kind of helping me think about my goals:
"...Well, for me, it's all about the bigger financial decisions in life. I rail against the latte factor ... for 20 years, pundits have been saying that if you give up your daily Starbucks cup and bank the money, you can attain financial security. That may work on paper, but I don't think it works that way in reality, for most people. One [of the bigger decisions] is housing. I'm a big believer in finishing in your starter home: Buy a modest home when you're first starting out and ignore people who tell you not to pay it off right away."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-to-Be-a-Savvy-usnews-3454225752.html?x=0

HA! Just read this article too!:)

[C99]

That makes sense for some adjoining neighborhoods in Chicago. There are huge discrepancies in the prices for houses that are a mere few blocks away from ours just because they are south of a major street and the flavor of the neighborhood is completely different once you cross that street. It does not necessarily mean that the sellers are unrealistic.

Short sales in that neighborhood are in the $250-$350K range. I maintain my belief that the majority of sellers are completely unrealistic about what the market will bear these days.

[chlobo]

To the OP, if that's what you call entitled, then Dh and I are obscenely entitled. Which is why we left SoCal for NH. We refused to pay $700K for a 1800 sq ft house on a teeny plot of land, in a state where schools are not known to be that good. Our city schools were okay, but I've stayed in touch with friends from there, and it's going downhill fast because of budget problems. And if we shelled out for a house (by reeeeeeally stretching) there's no way we could afford private school. So Dh said, to hell with that, we're leaving.

We are thankful every day that we were able to make this move, and have the standard of living we wanted. There are some sacrifices we had to make, diversity being one of them, proximity to family being another. But oh, it is so worth it. The schools here are awesome, I didn't have to pay $$$ for preschool, and didn't have to jump through any hoops to get in either. We don't have to drive an hour in heavy traffic every time we want to go anywhere.

It feels funny to say this, but out here we would be considered rather affluent, even though Dh makes much less than he did in SoCal. You just get a lot more for your money here. Not to say we aren't frugal, because we are, very frugal. Always have been, esp. last year. But we still manage to live quite comfortably, and don't have to stress over a lot of things we might have if we had stayed in SoCal. For one thing, we really dodged a bullet with preschool. I had NO idea we were supposed to be looking and applying so far in advance.


I agree with this.

[arivecchi]

Short sales in that neighborhood are in the $250-$350K range. I maintain my belief that the majority of sellers are completely unrealistic about what the market will bear these days. Maybe that is the case in your adjoining neighborhood, but it is not true everywhere in the city so *I* would not make a blanket statement.