UPDATE IN OP- Apparently I need something stronger than pepper spray...

[gatorsmom]

Just thought you all might be interested to hear what happened. So, I typed that first post on Friday afternoon. On Saturday, DH and i went to our school's annual fundraiser and saw the neighbors of the meandog. I hadn't thought to ask her before because although I really like and trust this neighbor she's a doctor and is rarely home when I'm home. Anyway, I asked her if she knew her next-door neighbors with the large black lab. She said she did and that they are great neighbors. I told her what happened on Monday and Friday and she was shocked. She said she doesn't understand why the wife wasn't more apologetic and friendly because she's usually so nice. She also reassured me that the dog is a big baby and is just a little overexcited sometimes. She did say that the wife had mentioned she's having trouble getting the Invisible Fence company back out to repair her fence so that's why their dog "Max" has been getting out a lot lately. I felt horrified then, and admitted I called the cops. She just laughed and reassured me that I did the right thing and that I shouldn't have to be frightened for my safety when on the street. She agreed the dog is big and can be frightening. But she reassured me again that the next time I walk by, if he's out I should just yell, "Max, go home!" several times and that should do it.

Fast forward to today, Monday. My pepper spray at some point got kicked off the stroller hook where I carry it so it's and I have none right now. But I ordered some last week so hopefully I'll get it soon. In the meantime, I'm taking a long, left over vacuum attachment extender with us for protection (really scary, right?). So, we walked that way again and the dang dog came bounding out AGAIN and I kept walking with my eyes forward and ignoring him all while yelling, "Max go home!" The wife came out and said something but I just ignored her and pretended I couldn't hear her because of my headphones. I don't know if she was talking to me or the dog. I just kept looking forward and walking away. I did notice, though, that the dog came up against the Invisible Fence. I could tell by the way he stopped at it. So, he didnt' come out in the street, but it scared me to death anyway. I'm glad they turned it back on.

I'll be really happy when my new pepper spray comes. And those neighbors sell their house. :(



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I just need to vent because I'm angry about this. On Monday i was walking the twins and Cha cha in the stroller. I do this every summer in an effort to lose weight and shape up. There is a route I like because it keeps me off a very busy street but it goes right past 2 yards with big, scary dogs. Until this year, I'd never had a problem but on Monday, a dog from one of the yards bounded out of his yard at me, barring his teeth and growling. I yelled "help, help!" and moved into the middle of the road but he kept coming. Normally I know that most black labs are just boisterous and overexcited but harmless. However, when he's barring his teeth, growling and coming right at me, I'm not taking chances. since his owner didn't appear when i yelled for help, I sprayed his face several times with pepper spray. The owner came out then and said, "Fido (or whatever his name was), stop it!" The dog sneezed a couple of times and went back into the yard. I looked at the owner stunned and shaking and said, "I just sprayed your dog with pepper spray!" She yelled angrily, "Good!" I looked at her and again and said, "I have 3 little kids in this stroller!" She didn't say anything and went into her house. I kept walking, spouting out cuss words but let it go.

Until today. When it happened again. I was walking the twins and Cha cha again and the dog came bounding into the street. this time I was walking on the opposite side of the street and a neighbor backed her car out and crossed in front of the dog. The dog stopped then and didn't go any further toward us so I kept walking. Apparently, our nanny said this same dog has come out into the street and approached her too. She works with a dog rescue and not too much frightens her so she ignored him. He came up to her and sniffed her butt a few times and went back into the yard. There is a sign for an invisible fence but it was clearly not on or working on Monday or today. Our nanny said it wasn't working the day he came toward her either. He didn't even hesitate.

I'm just pi$$ed off and my adrenaline is racing. I did call the cops and they are going to talk to the owner. They asked me to report the next time it happens and at that time they'll give the owner a citation. I don't really know these neighbors but I see they have the house for sale. I wish they'd sell it and just move on already. This is a bad start to my summer of walking off the weight. sigh.

BTW, the dog really didn't seem too affected by the pepper spray. All it did was lick its nose and sneeze. I'm not even sure if it was the spray or the owner calling out the door that actually stopped the dog on Monday.

Anyone know what I could use to stop him the next time he comes at me and the owner doesn't intercede???

[infomama]

If the dog is determined to bite you nothing will stop him. If he is coming at you half heartedly then an air horn *may*work. Don't smile, he may take that as you bearing you teeth and threaten him. If his head is really high or really low and he is loping towards you he probably wont bite you. Level head and blazing towards you...he means business. If he makes it to you, don't run. Protect your face, neck and hands...basically curl up into a fetal position. Honestly..I may take a different route if I had my kids with me.

[hillview]

YIKES! I'd avoid the dog for sure. The owners need to get a grip.
/hillary

[Carrots]

I am glad you called the police and reported the dog and I am thrilled you had pepper spray with you!

We have an aggressive Boxer dog who lives 3 doors down and I have witnessed him break out of his yard and attack 2 dogs in 6 weeks last summer.

I carry a thick wooden dowel in our stroller(the thickness of what you would hang in a coat closet). It is about 2' long and fits in the storage compartment. If that dog ever comes at us on a walk I will use it to ward him off with the stick, but if attacks my dog (small Shih Tzu) I plan on using it on him. Probably not the best plan, but it makes me feel batter knowing that I have the stick just in case.

I really should get some pepper spray. How did you get yours?

[boogiemomz]

If the dog is determined to bite you nothing will stop him. If he is coming at you half heartedly then an air horn *may*work. Don't smile, he may take that as you bearing you teeth and threaten him. If his head is really high or really low and he is loping towards you he probably wont bite you. Level head and blazing towards you...he means business. If he makes it to you, don't run. Protect your face, neck and hands...basically curl up into a fetal position. Honestly..I may take a different route if I had my kids with me.

wow.. you really know your stuff! i agree--take a different route if you can. check back periodically and see if the new owners have a nice jack russell terrier or something. ;)

[KBecks]

A different route sounds like a great idea!

[bubbaray]

Bear spray and a baseball bat should do the trick.

Or a new route.

[SkyrMommy]

Our route often takes DD, the dog & I along a walking path that many people have decided to let their dog run. Several times now I've had a dog run up to us very aggressively with no owner in site, my poor dog is already scared having been attacked earlier this spring - so it's been up to me to stand really, really tall and just yell the heck at the dog coming. So far it's been effective & the dogs have backed away, but I also have a 'walking stick' in the stroller that can be used if necessary too.

I'm so glad you called the police - sometimes owners are so clueless about the harm their dogs can cause & a citation or fine might give them a strong kick in the butt. I'd take a different route for a few days and then head back to scope it out again.

Good luck - stay safe.

[DrSally]

Wow, your pepper spray didn't work? Kudos to you for having it with you. I should get some. I'm glad you called the cops. We have leash laws here. You shouldn't be afraid to take a walk with your kids. What if they had been bitten, heaven forbid! I know runners and all of them have run into dogs that have tried to bite them from time to time. It's terrible.

[DrSally]

If the dog is determined to bite you nothing will stop him. If he is coming at you half heartedly then an air horn *may*work. Don't smile, he may take that as you bearing you teeth and threaten him. If his head is really high or really low and he is loping towards you he probably wont bite you. Level head and blazing towards you...he means business. If he makes it to you, don't run. Protect your face, neck and hands...basically curl up into a fetal position. Honestly..I may take a different route if I had my kids with me.

Good tips!

[trales]

I believe bear spray is stronger and has a more forceful amount and spray.

I am a big believer in calling the police on neighbors dogs that are aggressive. I have called 3 times on one neighbor, the house next to use. They paid a huge fine the third time, had a fence company out the next day and we have not had a problem in a year.

[Radosti]

I make friends with all the dogs on my route of walking. I have a bag of bisquits in the stroller and talk to the dogs in a cheery voice without fear in it. When the get close, I offer them a cookie and tell them that I will see them next time. After a few meetings, I am their best friend.

[hillview]

Here is a good dog attack article. Pepper spray is apparently not ideal.
http://www.wikihow.com/Handle-a-Dog-Attack

HTH
/hillary

[TwinFoxes]

I make friends with all the dogs on my route of walking. I have a bag of bisquits in the stroller and talk to the dogs in a cheery voice without fear in it. When the get close, I offer them a cookie and tell them that I will see them next time. After a few meetings, I am their best friend.

OP I am a HUGE dog lover (we have two right now), but I don't recommend this to you for an aggressive dog that is charging you baring his teeth. The fact that his owner approved of you spraying him tells me something is off somewhere. I'm sorry this happened, and I'm glad you called the cops.

[tmahanes]

They make citronella spray to stop barking... dogs hate the smell maybe you can try that... look at the pet store.

[Tondi G]

I think I would start carrying a baseball bat or a large tennis racket with me. If the dog comes at you again get ready to swing. I have had experiences with dogs acting similarly but instead of yelling help I would yell at the dog... "Quiet/Enough, Go Home" and they actually stopped and acted kinda surprised and then turned around and went home. I would call the police asap if he is out again.

[twowhat?]

Don't look into his eyes or smile. Not even for a second. Look away, keep your body turned so that your side or your back faces him (no facing him with your chest!). Walk slowly, stay quiet, and growl a quiet "No" or "go home" if he comes near enough.

Unfortunately, I think it might be the stroller that is causing him to act aggressively - I am going to guess he is afraid of it. I would totally recommend a different route.

[ewpmsw]

Just a note about bear spray. I've accidentally discharged the spray when the guard was off (long story) and one little spritz filled the air. It was miserable for me and the coworker next to me. I'd recommend changing your route instead of counting on using it around the kids.

[TwinFoxes]

Unfortunately, I think it might be the stroller that is causing him to act aggressively - I am going to guess he is afraid of it. I would totally recommend a different route.

I think this is a good observation. It probably looks really weird to him, so he's afraid. One of my doggies is afraid of bikes. Luckily it's the 16lb poodle.

[shawnandangel]

I had a similar experience at Home Depot. Some idiot decided that their dog needed excercise and the way to do that is to let the dog loose in the parking lot and then drive your car around while the dog chases it. All this while the Home Depot is open. The dog was aggressive and I didn't see it at first. It ran up to me and DD barking and growling and I yelled at it "Get out of here! Go home! Bad dog! Bad dog!" Employees came running and asked if I was okay. I was, the dog stopped in his tracks, looked confused and then promptly started chasing its owners truck again.

Honestly this probably wasn't the smart thing to do. The smart thing to do is what pp have said, to not look or smile etc. But it happened so fast and it was instinct. I positioned myself in front of DD and was ready to take the dog, a pit no less, on bare fisted. Nobody or nothing messes with my baby!

Good for you for calling the police. I was wishing after it happened that I wrote the liscense plate number down but I just wanted to get DD to the car before the dog changed its mind and came after us again.

[JamiMac]

What an irresponsible dog owner! I'd be mad too! I think you did the right thing calling the police. I would probably change my route at this point until their house sells. It doesn't sound like the owners care enough to do anything about the dog.

[randomkid]

Are the police your only option? Do you have animal control in your area? We have a lab living in the house behind ours, fortunately separated by a tall fence, that barked constantly when these people first moved in. I would take DD for walks and the dog barked and acted aggressive, but not to the degree you described. It would bark loudly and charge to the edge of their property. It always stopped, but every time, I was scared it wouldn't. The owner was always out and acted so nonchalant about the whole thing that it really irritated me. He could see that DD was with me. I felt very nervous and did NOT like walking by that house. DH got fed up with the barking and filed a complaint with animal control. The officer came to our house and spoke to me about the dog. When I explained how the dog seemed aggressive, he said "You should never feel fearful of a dog and be afraid to walk in your own neighborhood". You could tell he was totally irritated and said he would have a strong conversation with them. He told me that if they didn't control their dog, they would face fines and possibly losing their dog. We've had no problems since.

Don't change your route. You shouldn't have to because you have more right to be there than that dog. Call animal control or the police and tell them how many times this has happened and that you are scared to walk by that house. If there are leash laws in your area, that will give you even more leverage.

[Fairy]

Oh gosh, Lisa. If it were me, I'd call animal control, in add'n to what you've already done. I agree that you shouldn't have to change your route, but I'd be defensive while that dog is still about. I would vote to change your route until the dog is no longer there rather than risk it with the kids. Irresponsible pet owners make me nuts. Please update and let us know how this goes.

[doberbrat]

how you react somewhat depends on the dogs body language. lots of dogs will run up aggressively barking but really have no intent on biting - those you firmly yell GO HOME BAD DOG and they usually DO stop right there.

if they really are aggressive and intent on biting, then standing like a tree not looking at them or engaging them in Any way is best - next is dropping to fetal position - but this isnt really practical w/small kids in tow.

I wouldnt get bear spray or really even pepper spray b/c if the wind is 'wrong' you risk the kids getting a faceful.

Personally, I'd call AC or the police every chance I saw them out. And change my route.

I may have more "right" to be there, but avoiding the situation seems like a safer and more practical option to me with small kids..

[JTsMom]

How scary, especially with 3 kids with you! I don't think I could walk by there again, at least without DH. On one hand, if it happens again, and you can call the police again, it would take care of the situation permanently. On the other, I wouldn't want to put the kids at risk. Can DH walk over there alone with a bat or something?

[AngelaS]

Wasp spray works from quite a ways off and has a pretty direct spray.

We have a dog we call 'vicious mutt' on our favorite walking route as well. We always keep an eye out for him and I'm ready to do what I have to do to protect my kids. I do not have to give up MY walk because some people shouldn't own pets.

[gatorsmom]

Wasp spray works from quite a ways off and has a pretty direct spray.

We have a dog we call 'vicious mutt' on our favorite walking route as well. We always keep an eye out for him and I'm ready to do what I have to do to protect my kids. I do not have to give up MY walk because some people shouldn't own pets.

I don't want to give up what is normally a lovely walk either. I carried the pepper spray because I thought I could get the dog to back off without really hurting it. I don't want to do permanent damage to him- it's not his fault his stupid owners aren't restraining him, kwim?

I ordered some stronger pepper spray last night. If it doesn't work, I have a bat as back up. Hope I don't need it.

[gatorsmom]

how you react somewhat depends on the dogs body language. lots of dogs will run up aggressively barking but really have no intent on biting - those you firmly yell GO HOME BAD DOG and they usually DO stop right there.

if they really are aggressive and intent on biting, then standing like a tree not looking at them or engaging them in Any way is best - next is dropping to fetal position - but this isnt really practical w/small kids in tow.

I wouldnt get bear spray or really even pepper spray b/c if the wind is 'wrong' you risk the kids getting a faceful.

Personally, I'd call AC or the police every chance I saw them out. And change my route.

I may have more "right" to be there, but avoiding the situation seems like a safer and more practical option to me with small kids..

You raise good points. I love that route- it is the safest one for us- except for the dog.

I researched some pepper spray and got another one that squirts rather than shoots a fog. I've practiced with it and take into account that the wind may be blowing. I feel pretty confident with the regular pepper spray that squirts. The one I got is suppose to be a stronger, hotter concentration of pepper. So, it should really hurt but not damage anyone/anything.

Question- if I ignored the dog and kept on pushing the stroller while not acknowledging its existence is that as good as standing as still as a tree?

[twowhat?]

Question- if I ignored the dog and kept on pushing the stroller while not acknowledging its existence is that as good as standing as still as a tree?

Yes, as long as you are walking slowly and purposefully while totally ignoring/not looking at the dog. No running - he might chase. Is your older toddler old enough to teach not to look at the dog? I'm asking cuz one of our dogs is TERRIFIED of children and for good reason - kids have those BIG STARING eyes which are very threatening to dogs who are afraid or aggressive.

eta: in this situation, continuing to move (slowly) may be better than standing still. The dog will charge you when you're right in his territory and by stopping, you are STILL in his territory and it may be more threatening to him even though you aren't interacting with him. If you continue to walk, you will become less of a threat as you leave his space. Also try to walk as far away from him as possible.

[randomkid]

Yes, as long as you are walking slowly and purposefully while totally ignoring/not looking at the dog. No running - he might chase.
eta: in this situation, continuing to move (slowly) may be better than standing still. The dog will charge you when you're right in his territory and by stopping, you are STILL in his territory and it may be more threatening to him even though you aren't interacting with him. If you continue to walk, you will become less of a threat as you leave his space. Also try to walk as far away from him as possible.

I also think it's better to keep walking away calmly. When my dog was a puppy, we used to walk the neighborhood. There was a German Shepherd that was trained as a police dog, but he needed some "remedial work". There was a cop who lived in our neighborhood keeping him at his house (why I don't know because the family had little children). Anyway, that dog was apparently hiding and watching us. As soon as we hit the property line, he charged just like you see when a K9 cop is taking down a suspect. Apparently one of the kids left the gate open - nice! He was on top of my dog in a second. Fortunately, my dog was very small (still a puppy) and since he was directly under that dog, the shepherd couldn't reach him. I reached under the dog (crazy, I know), picked up my dog, turned my back and started walking away calmly but quickly. I so wanted to run, but didn't dare! I didn't slow down or look back until I was a block away. That dog was just standing at the edge of their property staring at me. A neighbor saw the whole thing and went over to tell the owner. The owner never apologized or anything. *I* should have called animal control on THAT dog!

So, yes, turn your back, keep walking away and don't look back no matter how tempting it may be unless you can hear that he is right behind you. Then, I'd turn around and spray! However, before you go that way again, I'd call animal control and let them know about the problem so that hopefully, you can still walk that route and not be in fear.

[newg]

I'd put the AC phone number in your cell phone and call as soon as you see the dog on your walk.

I found this article about homemade dog repellents.........not sure if any of it would be helpful while walking though.

http://www.pet-net.net/homemade-dog-repellents.php

they do seem to sell dog repellent sprays on amazon too.

[Toba]

Wow, I can't believe pepper spray didn't work ... that's kind of scary. You said it was a black lab? I have never encountered any kind of lab that's been that aggressive. That's also kind of scary ... I wonder if THEY are doing something to the dog that is making him so aggressive.

We had three incidents with pit bulls recently. One was years ago (in a rental property that is next door. This stuns me but given the tenants, probably not, but they actually opened the front door and let their two pit bulls out to go potty. Yes, I'm serious. No leash, no poop bag, or even an OWNER to walk them ... they just let them out to roam around and pee and poop on everybody else's yard. It's just absolutely absurd.

The second was when my husband was doing yard work out in the back yard. He turned around and found a snarling pit bull (different tenants ... aren't we lucky??) about two feet away from him. DH never heard him, so must have been stalking or something. I don't remember what he did ... I think he just slowly side stepped it to get into the back door.

The third was the TWO pit bulls. We had been parking our Ody in the back yard for a while. DS was three maybe and DH had been taking him out of his car seat. I turned around to open the back door and they got in between me and DH and the door. There just happened to be a pretty large stick and told DH to get the baby inside while I was holding the stick above my head. Then they started advancing on me and DH came back out and got in front of me so he was in the middle of me and two pit bulls (who were snarling, showing teeth and moving forward. I side stepped to the door again, DH threw the stick towards them and then ran to the door (he was only a feet away). I called the owner of the house and told them about it ... they were furious. The tenants told the owners that the dogs had gotten out of a secure fence and they were NOT pit bulls ... BULL, I know what a pit bull looks like and there's nothing that can convince me that they were not pit bulls or that they were very aggressive and had scared the crap out of us.

Thankfully the pit bulls haven't escaped again but just knowing the potential scares me to death. I'm glad you got away, I would have been like a deer in headlights. I suggest changing your route too. Do you have another option other than the busy street?

[bubbaray]

Pepper spray expires, too. I'm wondering if Lisa's spray is expired???

Bear spray is stronger than pepper spray, plus it usually has a longer range. I'd go with bear spray if I had to choose between the two.

An aluminum baseball bat is a good backup. Not kidding. Light weight, highly effective. Hit the dog across the back of the neck, NOT on the head.

HTH

[PearlsMom]

ITA about calling Animal Control -- they should have more experience and more resources for dealing with aggressive animals than the police. I HATE those invisible fences. They're not reliable and I believe the training required is cruel. I have found multiple lost dogs with invisible fence collars on. Happily those were all friendly and eventually reunited with their (clueless) owners.

[infomama]

eventually reunited with their (clueless) owners.
That is a little offensive. We have invisible fence on our property and we are NOT clueless dog owners or cruel to our dogs. I would much rather have them endure a few shocks during training rather than have them get hit/killed by a car going 50 miles per hour down my street. All they have to hear now is the audible warning that they are near the line and they back off.

[gatorsmom]

UPDATE in original post.

[DrSally]

Glad that fence is now working. It's still scary to have a huge dog bounding toward you. The vacuum hose, scary :)