HELP! Do I make a counter offer?

[tmarie]

Ok...so I finally got a job offer. Yay! It is on the highest end of what they originally told me the offer could be, but it is about $5-10K lower than other companies in this market are paying. The rationale they gave for their compensation scale is that they are a smaller company and they offer very cheap insurance compared to other employers in the market (they are IN the healthcare industry). Do I ask for $5 more, even though they are offering me the top of what they originally said their range was?

Also, the commute is GREAT and they are allowing me to work 8-4, with the option of occasionally working from home (they know i have little kids and are very family friendly). Oh, and I really liked the women I'd be working for. They're both moms who emphasized that their families come first. I really appreciate their flexibility and don't want to push my luck, but also don't want to be a doormat if a counter offer is expected! :) What is the norm?

TIA!
tmarie

[lil_acorn]

If you take into account the lower health care premiums, does that make it a wash? Given all the other perks (flexibility, commute), I would take it as is and maybe negotiate a signing bonus.

Congrats!!

[doberbrat]

maybe I'm a wuss but I'd take it and say thanks.

top of what they said, great commute, flexible hrs? sold.

by contrast, at my co, they're now instituting 8-5 hours w/no work from home/flex hrs option.

[sste]

What industry are you in and do you know the norm there?

I am on the outer extreme of aggressive negotiators, probably particularly among women, but I *never* take the intial offer without countering. I usually have a good sense of what I can negotiate for though and I typically, very politely, go through 2-3 rounds of negotation.

In your case, I see two options. You want to ask for 5k more but they say they are at the top of their range. First, I wonder if they really are - -they would not be savvy to give their last and best offer as their first offer. You could say, something like most jobs pay 5-10k more but I know you are at the top of your range, can you offer me salary plus 4k. You may be able to get an extra 2-3k this way.

The other thing I do alot is to say, I know your budget is constrained but I am hoping we can think of some creative ways to make my compensation package look more like the market norm. I am very excited about working here blah, blah. Then think about whether you can negotiate for more a few more vacation days, working from home one day, extra training and development funds, etc. You have to know a bit about the industry/employer to know which of these perks are totally standardized and they never deviate and which they will negotiate.

[Piglet]

What industry are you in and do you know the norm there?

I am on the outer extreme of aggressive negotiators, probably particularly among women, but I *never* take the intial offer without countering. I usually have a good sense of what I can negotiate for though and I typically, very politely, go through 2-3 rounds of negotation.

In your case, I see two options. You want to ask for 5k more but they say they are at the top of their range. First, I wonder if they really are - -they would not be savvy to give their last and best offer as their first offer. You could say, something like most jobs pay 5-10k more but I know you are at the top of your range, can you offer me salary plus 4k. You may be able to get an extra 2-3k this way.

The other thing I do alot is to say, I know your budget is constrained but I am hoping we can think of some creative ways to make my compensation package look more like the market norm. I am very excited about working here blah, blah. Then think about whether you can negotiate for more a few more vacation days, working from home one day, extra training and development funds, etc. You have to know a bit about the industry/employer to know which of these perks are totally standardized and they never deviate and which they will negotiate.

:yeahthat: I remember my marketing teacher in college tell me that both parties end up happier if there is a bit of negotiation. If you agree with no counter, they feel like they are over-paying (and feel bad that they could have had you for less) and you feel like you could have tried for more (and feel bad that you didn't give a counter).

[tmarie]

What industry are you in and do you know the norm there?

I am on the outer extreme of aggressive negotiators, probably particularly among women, but I *never* take the intial offer without countering. I usually have a good sense of what I can negotiate for though and I typically, very politely, go through 2-3 rounds of negotation.

In your case, I see two options. You want to ask for 5k more but they say they are at the top of their range. First, I wonder if they really are - -they would not be savvy to give their last and best offer as their first offer. You could say, something like most jobs pay 5-10k more but I know you are at the top of your range, can you offer me salary plus 4k. You may be able to get an extra 2-3k this way.

The other thing I do alot is to say, I know your budget is constrained but I am hoping we can think of some creative ways to make my compensation package look more like the market norm. I am very excited about working here blah, blah. Then think about whether you can negotiate for more a few more vacation days, working from home one day, extra training and development funds, etc. You have to know a bit about the industry/employer to know which of these perks are totally standardized and they never deviate and which they will negotiate.

Those are great points. Thank you!! I have been in the same job for 10yrs so I am out of touch with offer negotiating! :)

[tmarie]

:yeahthat: I remember my marketing teacher in college tell me that both parties end up happier if there is a bit of negotiation. If you agree with no counter, they feel like they are over-paying (and feel bad that they could have had you for less) and you feel like you could have tried for more (and feel bad that you didn't give a counter).

another great point that might just give me the courage to negotiate! :) thanks again. like the other previous posters said, i feel like there is already a lot of flexibility, etc..., that i am grateful for. i'd be thrilled if they would give me an extra weeks vacation in lieu of more money.

tmarie

[pinkmomagain]

Well, maybe I'm nuts (after all I've been outta the workforce for 11 yrs)...but if they told you upfront their offering salary range and you continued to show interest in the position and then they offered you the top of the range, then I don't think it's necessarily the best thing to ask for more, kwim? Sounds like they fulfilled their end to what they had said, but now you have decided that is not enough. Unless I completely misread your post....which is totally possible given my morning!!!!

[ZeeBaby]

PP had some really good suggestions for you. I agree that some negotiation is always expected. You don't want to be too far out of the range, ie asking for 20-25k more, but I don't think 5-10k is unreasonable, especially if it is not the norm for the area. Sste's way of asking is non-confrontational, so that won't offend.

[TwinFoxes]

Then think about whether you can negotiate for more a few more vacation days, working from home one day, extra training and development funds, etc. You have to know a bit about the industry/employer to know which of these perks are totally standardized and they never deviate and which they will negotiate.

I think SSTE makes very good points, but especially this. Sometimes a company really CAN'T offer more $$, but have much more flexibility when it comes to benefits. Vacation days ESPECIALLY are a great benefit, and one that I think could make up for a few thousand dollars. Just make sure it's clarified that the extra vacation days are permanent. A colleague of mine negotiated for extra days, but when she was bumped up to the next vacation level (like from 3 weeks to 4 weeks) she discovered her extra days no longer applied.

[tiapam]

It sounds like a good fit. Would you want to work for any of the other companies paying more? Maybe they pay more because they have to, KWIM? If you were very disappointed at the offer, then you might try and get a little more. I probably would not in this case, with so many variables working in your favor, though I have aggressively negotiated salary. I do think it's important to get the most you can since future raises will be based on this base. I think I would double check all the benefits, tell them you are thinking about it, ask if there is anything they forgot to mention. Until we started negotiating, my boss forgot to tell me about mandatory overtime that paid double time! Another thing I would verify is when you will have a review and possible salary increase. If they say six months, you could ask them to do it earlier.

I have found this book to be very helpful, if you have time to get it:

http://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-6th-Ed/dp/1580089682/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273167395&sr=1-2

His basics: never give a salary requirement, always let the other party make the first offer, if you are the best person for the job the two parties should be able to come to a satisfactory agreement on compensation.

BTW, I got a 17% raise at my first salary review in my last FT job. My boss could tell I meant business after the negotiations we had and she wanted to keep me happy. It was a great feeling to know I had proved to her I was worth it.

[maylips]

I think SSTE makes very good points, but especially this. Sometimes a company really CAN'T offer more $$, but have much more flexibility when it comes to benefits. Vacation days ESPECIALLY are a great benefit, and one that I think could make up for a few thousand dollars. Just make sure it's clarified that the extra vacation days are permanent. A colleague of mine negotiated for extra days, but when she was bumped up to the next vacation level (like from 3 weeks to 4 weeks) she discovered her extra days no longer applied.

I did the same thing. I was leaving higher education for the private sector and we usually got 2-3 weeks at Christmas for vacation - I was able to negotiate a longer Christmas break than my new colleagues had, but didn't read the fine print that that was only for the first year.

One point to remember about insurance premiums is that they usually go up every single year. So what starts as a good benefit can easily turn into a higher expense for you if the company pushes some of their premiums back onto their employees.

I think it's always good to negotiate a little and the PP gave you some good phrases to use to show that you're still interested in the position. But stick up for yourself. Men are always expected to negotiate - don't hold yourself short because it's not in our DNA to do that. When I was helping with hiring at my old position, I quickly discovered that the highest salary "raise" is your starting salary - after that, look for only 2.5-10% raises, kwim?

[tmarie]

thank you, ladies!!! these are all such good points. i'm going to talk to dh tonight. i would really like to negotiate an extra week of vacation. that means more to me than 5 or 10K. i really like the nonconfrontational language. i'm a fairly assertive and confident person, but for some reason this is a little tough for me! :)

tmarie