My kid is a biter.

[Green_Tea]

I am at the end of my rope.

DS has been a biter since he was 15 months old. He will be 4 this summer. His behavior over the past year has been MUCH better overall, and he bites far less than he used to, but it's still an issue at times.

Today he bit a child on the face at preschool. I found out from the child's mother that he also bit her child on the arm at another time but that the child did not tell the teacher. (The mother was gracious and kind and understanding despite the fact that my kid has bitten hers not once but TWICE. I am so grateful for that.)

DS has bitten at school on 2 other occasions since the beginning of the school year. Perhaps he has bitten more and I am unaware of it. He also occasionally bites at home and on playdates. Nothing in particular seems to predicate the biting - usually his victims have done nothing at all to harm DS and it doesn't happen as the result of conflict. He just bites. He LIKES to bite.

I have read every behavior book out there. My bookshelf looks like the Child Development section at Barnes & Noble. I have worked with a child psychologist, the pediatrician, a social worker, EI, and the public schools to change this behavior and nothing has worked. We have discussed it with him. We have offered him biting alternatives. We have reviewed being kind and gentle and never using our body to hurt others. I have spanked him. Put him in time out. Bitten him back. Taken away toys and privileges. Denied dessert. I have used each of these tactics, individually, consistently and for long periods of time. And yet, he continues to bite.

He has no intellectual disability, his hearing has been tested by an audiologist (twice), he is quite bright and understands completely that biting is not OK. He can explain to me why it is not OK. He understands the consequences of biting. Yet he continues to bite.

2.5 years of biting. TWO AND A HALF YEARS. He is almost FOUR. When will this end?

[brittone2]

Did EI have any insight...don't feel like you have to answer here, but did they go through any sort of sensory checklist with you?

eta: you say his playdates don't usually do anything to provoke. Does he tend to do it more when riled up/excited?

[Green_Tea]

Did EI have any insight...don't feel like you have to answer here, but did they go through any sort of sensory checklist with you?

eta: you say his playdates don't usually do anything to provoke. Does he tend to do it more when riled up/excited?

EI thought he was mildly sensory seeking. He has had subsequent evals with the public schools since he turned three, and they do not think he's particularly sensory seeking. I don't think he is, either. He gets voice therapy (different than speech therapy) for vocal nodules 2x/week through the schools, and the OT is nice enough to spend a half hour with him each week, even though it is not mandated. She thinks he's completely fine in terms of sensory stuff, and I tend to agree. I went through a long period of time where I worked with the professionals to try to identify sensory triggers and meet those needs in a different way, but there is no set pattern or trigger, and my efforts (and theirs) made no difference in the biting.

He doesn't seem to be more likely to do it when riled up or excited. He is just as likely to bite while quietly watch a show as he is while running around on a crowded, noisy playground.

[pinkmomagain]

First of all I have nothing to offer but (((HUGS))). This sounds so frustrating as you seem to have exhausted sooooooooooo many resources!!!!!

I know he is only 4, but when asked why he has bitten someone, can he articulate a reason? or how he was feeling at the time? Is he instantly regretful (ie. could it be an impulse control issue)? Is he impulsive in other ways?

[egoldber]

I was just going to ask, have you asked why he is doing this? What does he say, if he is able to say?

[Green_Tea]

First of all I have nothing to offer but (((HUGS))). This sounds so frustrating as you seem to have exhausted sooooooooooo many resources!!!!!

I know he is only 4, but when asked why he has bitten someone, can he articulate a reason? or how he was feeling at the time? Is he instantly regretful (ie. could it be an impulse control issue)?

When I asked why he bit his classmate today, he told me that he wanted his teacher to pick him (my DS) up. So maybe jealousy? But in general when he bites he can offer no explanation as to why. I am not sure that he knows why. I do think he has impulse control issues, but he is never remorseful. In fact, he is outraged at being punished for his actions, and often takes his anger out by being destructive. For example, if he bites a sibling, I might say he needs to sit on the couch and cool off for 3 or 4 minutes. He'll respond by picking up the closest thing (the remote, a water bottle, a matchbox car) and hurling it across the room. He broke a window in his bedroom by doing this not too long ago. $130 to repair it.

ETA: he becomes enraged when he's punished for other things as well, and when he doesn't get his way. Not too long ago I was on the phone and couldn't immediately get him something he wanted. He responded by coloring all over my bedroom door. Not because he was bored - because he was retaliating. He told me so.

[pinkmomagain]

Based on your answers, if it were me, I'd be looking to work with another psychologist or social worker. Asking around to find a really, really outstanding one. I think someone like that might be able to help you help him. I worked with one when dealing with anxiety/ocd issues with dd2 at around age 4-6.. She only met dd2 1-2 times. I would meet with her on a regular basis so she could work with me to help dd2.

[sste]

Agreeing with pinkmomagain. I am not an expert but that level of anger/physicality seems well outside what is typical and your son would benefit from some extra help developing skills to control his anger and channel his feelings. And better to start that younger IMO - -I have a brother who had those issues in childhood and they were never dealt with and, not to alarm you but just to raise this point, he is now an adult and we are all physically frightened of him because he still flies into the occasional physical rage but he is huge now and it is very dangerous.

Sending lots of hugs to you. I would be at my wit's end . . . you have done an incredible job holding it together in the face of almost three years of chomping!!

[mamicka]

When I asked why he bit his classmate today, he told me that he wanted his teacher to pick him (my DS) up. So maybe jealousy? But in general when he bites he can offer no explanation as to why. I am not sure that he knows why. I do think he has impulse control issues, but he is never remorseful. In fact, he is outraged at being punished for his actions, and often takes his anger out by being destructive. For example, if he bites a sibling, I might say he needs to sit on the couch and cool off for 3 or 4 minutes. He'll respond by picking up the closest thing (the remote, a water bottle, a matchbox car) and hurling it across the room. He broke a window in his bedroom by doing this not too long ago. $130 to repair it.

ETA: he becomes enraged when he's punished for other things as well, and when he doesn't get his way. Not too long ago I was on the phone and couldn't immediately get him something he wanted. He responded by coloring all over my bedroom door. Not because he was bored - because he was retaliating. He told me so.

First, :hug::hug::hug: - I can hear how stressful this is & I give you a lot of credit for not ignoring this but trying to help your child.

Second - while I don't have biting children, I do relate to the seeming lack of remorse after being violent or destructive / impulse control issues. DS2 is kind-of like this. I posted about it before here & about a year ago I was where you are & worried that something was really wrong with my child. I do believe that DS2 is mildly sensory-seeking but not enough to qualify for any services. But he really has a hard time with impulse control. For example, he has been known to put s few matchbox cars into a sock & swing it around - just for fun. Of course, someone or something gets hurt. I used to be very into punishment after these kinds of behaviors but all that led to was retailiation on his part & it was an awful cycle. What finally has helped is to aproach it from a non-punishment angle. I had to realize that he just couldn't control his behaviors at the time & what he needed from me was understanding, not punishment. Once he realized that he wasn't doomed to be punished after these behaviors he actually did show remorse, was able to talk about why (sometimes there's a reason, sometimes not) he did it, & we could talk about how to prevent it from happening again.

I've already written a book so I won't go on, but I just wanted to encourage you & share our similar story.

:grouphug:

[Green_Tea]

First, :hug::hug::hug: - I can hear how stressful this is & I give you a lot of credit for not ignoring this but trying to help your child.

Second - while I don't have biting children, I do relate to the seeming lack of remorse after being violent or destructive / impulse control issues. DS2 is kind-of like this. I posted about it before here & about a year ago I was where you are & worried that something was really wrong with my child. I do believe that DS2 is mildly sensory-seeking but not enough to qualify for any services. But he really has a hard time with impulse control. For example, he has been known to put s few matchbox cars into a sock & swing it around - just for fun. Of course, someone or something gets hurt. I used to be very into punishment after these kinds of behaviors but all that led to was retailiation on his part & it was an awful cycle. What finally has helped is to aproach it from a non-punishment angle. I had to realize that he just couldn't control his behaviors at the time & what he needed from me was understanding, not punishment. Once he realized that he wasn't doomed to be punished after these behaviors he actually did show remorse, was able to talk about why (sometimes there's a reason, sometimes not) he did it, & we could talk about how to prevent it from happening again.

I've already written a book so I won't go on, but I just wanted to encourage you & share our similar story.

:grouphug:

Thank you. This is really helpful. I feel a lot of pressure from the outside for there to be a big consequence for his behaviors, but the consequences often set off a bad cycle of behavior. I need to give myself permission to sometimes NOT punish him when he does something like throw the remote control or even bite and break the cycle.

I would really like to find a great social worker who could help us, or even a child psychologist, but have really come up dry. The social worker we worked with previously gets RAVE reviews. Most of the child pysch people I spoke with don't want to work with children that are his age, or already have a full patient load. It's been a real struggle finding the right kind of help.

[KpbS]

So sorry you are dealing with this! You have done a ton of work and it sounds like tried everything you can to improve the situation.

DS1 had a boy very similar to this in his preschool class one year. He was biting and it was far beyond the point where biting was age appropriate. He often bit for no reason at all--unprovoked and had rage problems. He had two older siblings and was very aggressive toward them. At age 4 his parents finally admitted there was a problem (unlike you they had ignored it). They found a child psychiatrist who was able to get at the root of the problems (not sure entirely what or how) and he was showing some improvement when we last saw him.

Ask around for a recommendation for a very good child psychiatrist--maybe at a near-by children's hospital.

[egoldber]

I know you said that you have every child developement book out there, but your most recent description (where the "discipline" sets off an explosive cycle) made me think of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child. If you haven't read it, you may want to see if any of it resonates.

His basic thing is you have to get over the idea of "punishment" during the episode because the child is not capable of reason at that time. You have to work on the behaviors during calm moments, because the explosive child is just not capable of doing that in the moment.

He has a website here

http://www.livesinthebalance.org/

and some videos here that are WELL worth watching:

http://www.livesinthebalance.org/plan-b-in-action/for-educators

I have learned a LOT about parenting my older DD from this book and him. She does not explode with rage, but with tears (which he says is just another type of "explosive child").

I think that finding a different therapist/medical professional of some sort is an excellent idea. I would call several people and interview them on the phone. if they do not seem like they are able to help, maybe get suggestions for them of others. And I think the recommendation to see someone at a Children's Hospital isn't a bad idea. They may be quick to come to an ODD diagnosis, which I would be a little leery of in a 4 year old.

[SnuggleBuggles]

When we were going through that still at that age we went to a psychologist. She felt that in a few years there was a good chance he would be dx with ADHD. Sure enough, he got that dx a few months ago. The impulse control issues at that age was one of their red flags when making the dx. They said that until school age though they would not be able to officially say that. Until a few months into K they just had someone shadowing ds as much as possible.

(((((hugs))))) I know what it is like to go through this.

Beth

[mamicka]

I know you said that you have every child developement book out there, but your most recent description (where the "discipline" sets off an explosive cycle) made me think of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child. If you haven't read it, you may want to see if any of it resonates.

Yes, yes, yes. I've read so many books I can't remember which ones say what.

[Green_Tea]

I know you said that you have every child developement book out there, but your most recent description (where the "discipline" sets off an explosive cycle) made me think of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child. If you haven't read it, you may want to see if any of it resonates.

His basic thing is you have to get over the idea of "punishment" during the episode because the child is not capable of reason at that time. You have to work on the behaviors during calm moments, because the explosive child is just not capable of doing that in the moment.

He has a website here

http://www.livesinthebalance.org/

and some videos here that are WELL worth watching:

http://www.livesinthebalance.org/plan-b-in-action/for-educators

I have learned a LOT about parenting my older DD from this book and him. She does not explode with rage, but with tears (which he says is just another type of "explosive child").

I think that finding a different therapist/medical professional of some sort is an excellent idea. I would call several people and interview them on the phone. if they do not seem like they are able to help, maybe get suggestions for them of others. And I think the recommendation to see someone at a Children's Hospital isn't a bad idea. They may be quick to come to an ODD diagnosis, which I would be a little leery of in a 4 year old.

I have The Explosive Child, and will definitely re-read it. Thanks so much for the links.

I, too, am leery of an ODD diagnosis. I don't think that's what I'm dealing with. He's not terrible all the time, but we have good weeks and bad weeks. Thankfully, we have been moving toward more good weeks than bad, but today's biting incident was a huge step backwards.

Again, thank you.

[tiapam]

Thank you. This is really helpful. I feel a lot of pressure from the outside for there to be a big consequence for his behaviors, but the consequences often set off a bad cycle of behavior. I need to give myself permission to sometimes NOT punish him when he does something like throw the remote control or even bite and break the cycle.

I would really like to find a great social worker who could help us, or even a child psychologist, but have really come up dry. The social worker we worked with previously gets RAVE reviews. Most of the child pysch people I spoke with don't want to work with children that are his age, or already have a full patient load. It's been a real struggle finding the right kind of help.

I am not big on punishment so I understand the pressure you feel to make a show of trying to control the situation. I have been fortunate not to have biters *so far* (DS is still quite young) but DD's best friend went through a biting phase. I really felt a lot of it was wanting her mom's immediate attention. And she got a lot of attention when she bit, but it was all negative of course. In fact, I would say my friend became explosive.

Have you tried regularly praising him for having a good day with no biting? Also, what was going on at 15 months when he started? I would look back and try to see if he is still carrying a grudge about a new sibling or something similar.

Good luck.

[Green_Tea]

When we were going through that still at that age we went to a psychologist. She felt that in a few years there was a good chance he would be dx with ADHD. Sure enough, he got that dx a few months ago. The impulse control issues at that age was one of their red flags when making the dx. They said that until school age though they would not be able to officially say that. Until a few months into K they just had someone shadowing ds as much as possible.

(((((hugs))))) I know what it is like to go through this.

Beth

This is the direction that our ped (who I love and trust and who has three school age children of her own) thinks we are moving in. I tend to agree. Next year DS will attend a full time magnet preschool that is within a public school. I look forward to seeing how he does and his teachers' insights into his behavior. I won't be at all surprised if we end up with an ADHD (or possibly just ADD) dx.

[mamicka]

I think that finding a different therapist/medical professional of some sort is an excellent idea. I would call several people and interview them on the phone. if they do not seem like they are able to help, maybe get suggestions for them of others. And I think the recommendation to see someone at a Children's Hospital isn't a bad idea. They may be quick to come to an ODD diagnosis, which I would be a little leery of in a 4 year old.

Sorry to be responding so many times. I agree that finding a therapist might help - I'm not against it at all. But just some encouragement that you might be able to make great headway yourself even if you can't find a professional.
Since changing how we parent him, DS2 has improved dramatically. He just turned 5 last week & I'm no longer afraid of what's going to happen next with him. Don't get me wrong, he's not perfect - but I no longer feel like he's so much different that any other 5 yr-old. We've just learned how to help him manage his personality.

[Green_Tea]

I am not big on punishment so I understand the pressure you feel to make a show of trying to control the situation. I have been fortunate not to have biters *so far* (DS is still quite young) but DD's best friend went through a biting phase. I really felt a lot of it was wanting her mom's immediate attention. And she got a lot of attention when she bit, but it was all negative of course. In fact, I would say my friend became explosive.

Have you tried regularly praising him for having a good day with no biting? Also, what was going on at 15 months when he started? I would look back and try to see if he is still carrying a grudge about a new sibling or something similar.

Good luck.

I don't think anything big was going on at 15 months - maybe just teething :). He got a big reaction when he bit, and it was a powerful "weapon" against his big sisters (he's the youngest).

[pinkmomagain]

I don't think anything big was going on at 15 months - maybe just teething :). He got a big reaction when he bit, and it was a powerful "weapon" against his big sisters (he's the youngest).

It's funny you said this, I was going to ask you his birth order. My youngest dd is the little tough one and my youngest nephew is even more of the tough one with his two older brothers. My ds has been having lots of problems with him hitting, etc. the older ones. It's been almost as if it's the only way he knows how to get their attention/interact with them. She started a whole behavioral thing to change that dynamic in her family. DN is older than your ds so I don't know that something like that would work for your case (or that it's the only issue at work here), but I suspected he might be the youngest!

[niccig]

I don't have any concrete suggestions to add. You've gotten many ideas from the PPs.

I just wanted to say a big thank you to you and to the other PP's who are helping their children develop strategies that will work for them. I so wish my parents had done something similar rather than a "one fit all" approach to parenting. Your children aren't old enough to thank you, so I will.

[Green_Tea]

I don't have any concrete suggestions to add. You've gotten many ideas from the PPs.

I just wanted to say a big thank you to you and to the other PP's who are helping their children develop strategies that will work for them. I so wish my parents had done something similar rather than a "one fit all" approach to parenting. Your children aren't old enough to thank you, so I will.

Thank YOU for thanking me (and the other posters) and for recognizing that one size does NOT fit all! :love-retry: Really, that means so much to me.

It can be so, so hard to parent my son around other moms. It's easy to be a "backseat parent" when someone else's kid is causing a problem, but being the parent of the biter is so stressful and upsetting and it's hard not to feel as though you are serving two masters when your child has hurt another - I need to meet the perceived needs of the parent of the bitten child to show that I am taking the problem seriously, and I need to deal with my own child. Sometimes the way I deal with my own child does not meet the expectations of that other parent, and that's really, really hard. I don't want that other parent to think I am lenient and let my kid get away with murder - but I also don't want to touch off a downward spiral of awful, agressive, destructive behavior. It's a difficult balance to strike.

[hillview]

I have not read all replies. DS1 was acting out A LOT when he was 4-4.5. He was ANGRY. He did bite on occasion but also hit and scratched. He was MAD he had a baby brother (just 2 years old) who was getting into his stuff. AND he was MAD that his mom and dad (me and DH) were NOT punishing DS2 for misdeads that DS2 did to DS1. SO what helped us A TON was to "punish" DS2 when he hurt DS1 or did something bad to DS1's things. It was usually a sit on the naughty step for DS2. This helped almost IMMEDIATELY.

No idea if this is your situation. You mentioned the biting of a sibling which made me think of this. I also had many talks with DS1 about how hard it was to be a big brother and ways of coping etc.

ETA: we also did a sticker chart for "respecting others" one sticker every half day. After 5 stickers he got a 15-20 star wars set. This was part of the plan and worked SUPER well.
/hillary