Is DH too generous? (and being taken advantage of)?

[PMJ]

A few scenarios - you tell me your thoughts:

1) We went to a "going away" party for my DH's co-worker at someone else's house. They end up ordering Dominoes pizza and had some (bare minimum) snacks out - chips etc. DH takes his CC out and actually pays for the whole order of pizza $60!

( I did not say anything b/c I knew if I did - he would be real upset w/ me and call me cheap. But I don't get why he felt like he had to pick up the tab.? He is the supervisor amongst all these people, but STILL).


2) We are oversees visiting DH's family (prior to us getting married). We are out to dinner w/ DH's high school friends - probably 5 couples. Again, bill comes, and DH pays THE ENTIRE BILL. Not one of his friends offered to split it or anything. AND, none of these supposed 'friends' gave us a wedding gift or anything, so it's not like these people had already given us something. (Not that they needed to, but just making a point).

( I did bring this up a few months later, and he really did not have a response to this).


3) DH sometimes travels for work and has expenses to submit. He made two trips in Nov/Dec of 2009 and STILL has not submitted the expenses. Well, he just told me he did submit them, he just has to check w/ HR about the Bank info, so it can be directly deposited into our acct.

(I remind him of this ALL THE TIME and he says, yes I'll do it blah blah. He says he never has time - he does work almost 12-15 hr days, BUT STILL. On the weekend, when I ask him to do it, he says he will and does not. I have even offered to do it for him (on the company site - if he shows me how, which he has not done yet and says that is not necessary).


Am I in the wrong here w/ Scenarios 1 and 2?? I don't consider myself to be CHEAP, but I also don't know why he has to be so darn generous in situations that are not necessary. In Scenario 2, if the people were coming to our house, absolutely we would front the bill, but that was not the case.

Also, how can I bring this up w/ out it getting into a major argument? I feel like DH generally thinks I "obsess" about $ and he wishes I would spend my energy into other things - like picking up a hobby, cooking or other. I just don't think it's right.

Thanks !

PJ

[wellyes]

Scenario 1: I would expect the company to cover.

Scenario 2: I'd expect the friends to pick up YOUR tab, since you're the visitor, but it'd kinda depend on the culture of the country.

If it's a once- or twice- a year thing, I personally wouldn't make a big deal about it, personally.

[Momof3Labs]

#1 I think was a nice gesture as supervisor, given that it was a going-away party. It was only $60 - money, yes, but not an unreasonable amount for a going away party that presumably involved a number of couples.

#2 was unnecessary. Were there cultural dynamics going on here? At least you don't see these people often, so it's not like he set a precedent of paying for their food.

#3 - I deal with expense reports, too, and get them in right away. How much money are you talking about? One short trip can easily pass $1000 once you factor in hotel and airfare, plus transportation and meals. Does he have an assistant/secretary who can take care of that for him? Honestly, if I had outstanding expenses from last year, I'd be out of luck at this point. My company won't reimburse expenses that are that old.

[gatorsmom]

My brother and I were both like this. We just never worried about money. I know how that sounds but we were raised to be generous but not financially responsible. My parents were absolutely not wealthy but they just never gave me any kind of financial help.

It sounds like your DH is like this. Frankly, if he's not out of control with his generosity, ANd it sound like this might be a regular argument between you, AND you are not in a financial crunch right now, then I'd just let him be generous. There are a lot worse things to be. If it's not hurting you, I'd let him win that fight.

On the other hand, not completing or following up on his expense reports is irresponsible. Let him know that is HIS money and he shouldn't be shy asking for it. My husband is very, very financially responsible (and a whiz with numbers). He helped me see that every little bit counts. Coupons add up, even small numbers in the bank account compound, etc. So, by not filling out those expense reports, he could be denying you some retirement money or funds for your children's college education.

If this is something he has trouble with and is actually YOUR strong suit, maybe you should fill out the reports for him??

[egoldber]

#1) In the federal government, we would all have to pay our way, but in a private company a supervisor/manager would routinely pay for these things. It's good for morale.

#2) That one is a little odd IMO

#3) That's a problem, but I am terrible about these things too. :o DH was always super diligent, but travel was part of his job and like Lori said, any one trip could easily be several thousand dollars.

ETA: Of all of these, #3 is the only one that would really bother me.

[ciw]

In the first scenario, I think your DH was right. He's their supervisor. He didn't have to pay certainly but I think it was definitely the nice thing to do. I don't know if it would have been fair for the host to pay the whole tab. They had snacks -- if people wanted more to eat then the guests could (and obviously did) order more food. Everyone could have split the tab but it was nice for your DH to foot it for the people working for him. Sixty bucks isn't all that much. DH's boss (who is a division head, not owner of the corp.) routinely does this. He even personally pays for the division's Christmas party out of his own pocket. Not necessary, but nice, particularly when a supervisor is making more money than those under him/her. It's a nice way to thank the folks that make the boss' job easier. Of course, when and if DH gets his boss's job, I'll have to remind myself of this!

In the second scenario, I think you are right UNLESS you were staying with the friends and it sounds like you weren't. I find it really rude when overnight guests stay, eat at a house and then expect to be taken out to eat too. But this sounds like it wasn't the case so yeah, I agree with you.

On the last point, you are absolutely right. There is NO excuse for not submitting reimbursement forms.

[mytwosons]

1.) Ideally, company would have paid for this. I can't always get this type of expense covered due to budget constraints, but as a manager, I always feel like I need to pick up the tab in this type of case. Around here, it's definitely expected.
2.) You didn't mention what country you were visiting. If it was a country with a much lower cost of living, then I could see why your husband would have picked up the tab. I would have expected him to discuss the possibility beforehand, though.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

in the first scenario, i don't see anything wrong with it. especially since he is the manager. one of my old bosses (a great guy) would occasionally treat the whole group (5 people or so) out to lunch. i think he paid out of his own pocket usually, bc it was more of a social thing (coworkers getting together as friends) vs a company thing. and actually my DH has done this several times (paid for entire pizza lunch or dinner), and he's not a manager or anything. he just doesn't care about money that much and doesn't think its worth fussing about. i kinda agree with him. i hate it when people nitpick over a few dollars and cents. having a good rapport with your coworkers is worth so much more than that.

the 2nd scenario, in that case, yeah i'd be kinda pissed initially... but as PP said, maybe it's a cultural thing, or he just wanted to do something nice for friends he hadn't seen in a while. or maybe a few years back another friend paid for everyone and he is sort of returning a favor. or, as PP said, maybe this other country has a much lower cost of living. when we go to South America to visit relatives, my dad usually pays for several dinners, bc 1) he wants to thank our relatives for hosting us and 2) he can afford it much more easily than my relatives can, most of whom make very little and rarely go out to eat at all.

and also, since it was one0time thing, i wouldn't worry about it. if he was doing this a couple times year, then maybe i'd bring it up.

the 3rd scenario - now this would bother me. my DH travels a lot too and yeah often times the expenses are $1000 are more. im guessing he just gets lazy about these things or figures he'll just get around to it later.

i agree with PP- only scenario #3 would really bother me enough to ask about. IMO, life it too short to worry about a few bucks here and there when treating friends/family.

[rgors]

#1 - entirely normal for a supervisor to pay out of pocket for an inexpensive dinner like that. This minor "investment" pays great dividends in employee morale and team bonding. It would be nice if the company picked it up but if not, a supervisor should still do this from time to time. All of his employees probably regard him as "making more than I do" and would eventually think of him as "cheap" if he didn't pickup the bill, from time to time.

#2 - sounds odd, but -- that's years ago! let it go.

#3 - this is wrong. In the game of "picking your battles" I would continue to take issue with #3 with DH, and let the first two go.

If it bothers you greatly (do you do the daily budgeting/ bill paying in the house?) then I would set aside an amount for each month as the "generosity fund" and mentally account your husband's generosity as coming from that pocket. Perhaps it wouldn't bother you so much if you had a way to expect it?

[o_mom]

I'm with most people here.

#1 - I think it is a good idea. I know DH would not feel comfortable asking his direct reports to pitch in for this sort of thing. He knows what they make compared to him and would feel very cheap/awkward about it. I know at the company I worked at, it was a point of resentment when the boss would ask you to attend these quasi-business social events and then you have to pay without having any say over the cost, and feeling like you can't decline for political reasons. Also, company reimbursement for recognition events and especially if spouses were involved, was tightly controlled and rare. For $60... not a big deal.

#2 - Hard to say with the sitution and cultural differences, but not a bad thing to be generous.

#3 - This it the only one I would lose sleep over.

[TwinFoxes]

#1 - entirely normal for a supervisor to pay out of pocket for an inexpensive dinner like that. This minor "investment" pays great dividends in employee morale and team bonding. It would be nice if the company picked it up but if not, a supervisor should still do this from time to time. All of his employees probably regard him as "making more than I do" and would eventually think of him as "cheap" if he didn't pickup the bill, from time to time.

#2 - sounds odd, but -- that's years ago! let it go.

#3 - this is wrong. In the game of "picking your battles" I would continue to take issue with #3 with DH, and let the first two go.



In complete agreement here. Especially, #1. He would have looked really bad in the eyes of his employees if he didn't pay.

I was the guilty party with expenses. It drove my DH crazy (and rightly so, I was basically giving an interest free loan to the company). He files his expense reports on the road! And we worked for the same company. :o I don't see this as your DH being taken advantage of unless they decide to not pay him back (someone here posted that had happened to their DH).

[shawnandangel]

Both scenarios are something my husband would do. I don't think any of these scenarios are outrageous. $60 for pizza would not be a financial burden for us and would be a nice gesture to coworkers.

So unless your money is tight and you have to scrape to pay the bills each month, I think your husband is perfectly fine in his actions.

Not submitting the expense report would irk me a little bit if it was over $100, but my husband has a company credit card that we pay each month and then the company reimburses once he submits. Some months he forgets, but it doesn't cause us hardship and so I don't worry about it.

[smiles33]

I agree with PP that 1 & 2 are not worth making an issue out of for all the reasons already stated, but #3 is definitely a cause of concern. I also wanted to add that my employer now considers reimbursements to be TAXABLE income if you wait more than 60 days. I don't know if this is a legal requirement yet, but they tend to move very conservatively so maybe the IRS hints at this but doesn't yet require it. Thus, it's another incentive to move quickly.

Also, if your DH is of a different cultural background (not just a typical American), then treating his friends in that foreign country is also a sign of pride/respect, not just a recognition of the fact that Americans may have more income than that country. In many East Asian cultures (I'm of Chinese descent, so I know this culture the best), it's a "fight" between friends to pay for dinner/lunch. Most of the time, people verbally argue that it's their honor to pay, but I've even seen some very stubborn/proud people get physical (not punching or pushing, but tugging for the bill and turning around to use their back to nudge the other party away). It's comical to me as an American, but my Chinese immigrant parents have friends who sometimes did this.

I know your DH's friends didn't even try to pay, so they probably aren't Chinese, but I thought I'd point out the example of cultural values. Perhaps your DH may have done it out of pride, because the person who pays is seen as generous and gets the most "props" for doing it.

[SnuggleBuggles]

#1 I think was a nice gesture as supervisor, given that it was a going-away party. It was only $60 - money, yes, but not an unreasonable amount for a going away party that presumably involved a number of couples.

#2 was unnecessary. Were there cultural dynamics going on here? At least you don't see these people often, so it's not like he set a precedent of paying for their food.




No thoughts on 3 but I agree with those. Plus, I don't think #2 is out of line. Yeah, as hosts they should have paid more than he should have but it really isn't a huge deal at the end of the day (assuming it didn't cause you dire financial hardship to do it).

Beth

[stillplayswithbarbies]

#1 is absolutely appropriate that he paid the whole bill.

#2 I don't know enough about to know if it is a cultural thing and therefore okay

#3 is a red flag. I would be concerned that he already got the money for the trips and spent it on something else and is afraid to tell you, or is hiding it from you for some reason. It just sounds suspicious. Especially that he changed the story and then wouldn't let you help. It could be innocent in that he lost the receipts and is ashamed to tell you, or it has been too long and they won't reimburse him now. Or it could be something more serious.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

I think #1 & #2 are absolutely fine. I don't understand why you would be worrying about something like #2 years later. You didn't say what country he is from. When we visit my husband's relatives/friends, we absolutely want to treat them to dinners out. They fight over it, though, as is the custom.

#3, I have no idea why someone wouldn't do their expense reports. I'm not sure how this is related to #1/#2 at all.

[alien_host]

#1 - I think what he did was perfectly fine and probably very appreciated by his employees. Good for morale for $60. I think his company *might* have paid for it but it seems like he is terrible at submitting expense reports so it might not get reimbursed anyway. ;)

#2 - If your DH wanted to treat for whatever reason, then I guess that is his perogative. But I wonder if his friends had intended on paying and just didn't offer b/c DH grabbed the bill first --- maybe they didn't want to insult him? Hard to say in this case. We tend to pay for guests that are visiting. Occassionally guests want to pay b/c they are staying with us and they want to repay somehow by taking us out to eat. For us it usually is a debate when the bill comes as both parties want to pay (unless I'm out with my SIL ;)

#3 - This is a tough one, is your DH at risk for losing reimbursement for not submitting them on time? If he is then it is foolish to wait so long. I would NEVER pay out of pocket for items that are clearly business related..travel etc. Get those expense reports in! Also I didn't want to be paying off the company credit card each month with my own money, I wanted the company cash in my bank to cover it - even if I had the money to spare.

Since 1 and 2 seem like one-off situations, I'd let them go....I would however gently remind him about expense reports. Who in your household pays the credit card bills related to his company travel? If you do, then just remind him as the bill is coming due, "honey we have to pay the amex for your work and it is $5,000 this month, have you submitted your expense report?"

Good luck!

[PMJ]

THANK-YOU everyone for your honest opinions and responses.

Looks like I have a lot to learn! (Letting things go and not worrying about silly things).

You ladies are all right.

Working on getting the expenses taken care of ! Ay veyyyyyyyyyyyy

and they are roughly in the neighborhood of $3000, so that's a lot $$$ that could be put in DD's college fund right now !

[kijip]

1- If the company was not paying it is ok and perhaps the best thing management wise for the supervisor to pay. I pay for my staff member's things in situations like that. I want people to be happy working for me.

2- As a guest, I definitely pay if I am staying with someone or they are showing me around the city etc.

3- He needs to file the damn expense reports.

[Smillow]

#1 - I think he was very nice & I would not have a problem with him footing the bill. Especially since it was a quasi-work & event & these were "his people"

#2 - Ehh.. Not know the ages & financial situation, I can see it both ways, but I would ony worry if it left you two in financial straits.

#3 - Submit the expense report already!!! This one is a no-brainer:)

[Indianamom2]

Numbers 1 and 2 wouldn't bother me at all, as long as finances are generally okay.

Number 3, well that's a bit different, especially given the amount. $3000 is a lot to almost any family. My Dh will occasionally do the same thing, but with MUCH smaller amounts < $100. I would not be okay with donating $3000 to his work.

Ignore the rest and focus on number 3!

[fattytuna]

#1 and #2 - Nice gesture by your DH, IMHO.

#3 doesn't sound right. It will have to be some extraordinary circumstance. Maybe if two of my friends are starting their own start-up company, and I am employee number one or two, or if I'm so special that I hold preferred shares and not common stock in the company.

OT on #2 - I'm similar to smiles33. I'm only used to overseas relatives/friends fighting to pay for the bill, some to the point of sneaky (quietly slips away, claiming to go to the bathroom but pays for dinner w/o me ever seeing the bill), some darn right scares me (I thought my 70-yr-old aunt was going to physically harm me if she didn't get to pay - old Chinese ladies can be freakishly strong). Well, "used to" is not the right word - more like giving me unnecessary stress for something that's supposed to be a pleasant gathering.

[TwinFoxes]

#
#3 is a red flag. I would be concerned that he already got the money for the trips and spent it on something else and is afraid to tell you, or is hiding it from you for some reason. It just sounds suspicious. Especially that he changed the story and then wouldn't let you help. It could be innocent in that he lost the receipts and is ashamed to tell you, or it has been too long and they won't reimburse him now. Or it could be something more serious.

In defense of the DH, and so as to not freak out OP, I will confess that I was really, really bad about expense reports. They are a pain in the butt at my (former) company. In fact, the last year I was there, they started changing policies because it was so ridiculous. Anyway, I would go on a trip, and not file the report. A little time would go by, I'd go on another trip, and not file the report. So, I would end up being owed a big chunk of cash too. Maybe not $3000, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. And I traveled a fair amount, so sometimes I would tell my DH I had turned in the reports, and then discovered, oops, no it was the report for another trip.

I'm just saying, it's not necessarily something devious. More like absentmindedness + procrastination :wavey:

All that being said, he should turn in the damn receipts! I finally got better at it, and then I left the workforce.

[Corie]

Scenario #1 would not bother me. Honestly, I would expect the supervisor
to cover this expense. And $60 is pretty cheap, in my opinion.

Scenario #2 would probably bother me. Depends on my mood. But I would
think that if we had traveled overseas, then I would like to think that I didn't
have to foot an entire dinner bill for 5 other couples!

Scenario #3 would totally piss me off. Just file the damn reports and get
our money back! That's the way I look at it! My DH has to file expense
reports and it is a PITA but he does it. He wants the money back too!