If you live close to your ILs, how do you draw the line? (long)

[wencit]

In a nutshell, SIL and I have differing ideas as to how much time to spend with each other, and I'm not sure what to do about it or how to draw the line.

We moved from CA to MA about 4 months ago, and during that time period, we've seen SIL no less than 5 times, so on average about once a month. She lives 35 minutes away by car. Sometimes it's been with other family members, and sometimes it's been just us -- meaning her, DH, me, and the kids. A couple weeks ago, we were supposed to go to a festival with her, but I got sick so we canceled at the last minute (DH was also tired, so he just slept in). This past Saturday night, she sent us an e-mail about another festival that took place yesterday (Sunday), but we already had plans to take the kids to a carnival that day, so DH tried calling her. Her cell phone was off, so he e-mailed her instead, telling her that we already had plans. Well, yesterday afternoon, SIL called DH, and was very angry that we hadn't invited her to the carnival (which, by the way, was an event that some of my local Mom's Club families were attending, so it was actually a "group activity" in that sense). She said that we weren't spending enough time together, and accused me of not wanting my kids to get to know the other side of the family. What's ironic is that if SIL had let us know about the festival earlier, instead of at the last minute, I absolutely would have gone with her. Now I'm just irritated and annoyed.

SIL (31) is single, childless, and only has 1 other friend here outside of work, so I don't know if this is what is driving her to always want to be with us, or if she just has a completely different idea of how much time we should be together. Honestly, between weekends that are just for our family alone (me, DH, and the kids), weekends that are reserved for social events with my Mom's Club (like the carnival), weekends that are supposed to be for running errands & doing random stuff, and weekends that we need just for downtime, I think once a month is perfectly reasonable to get together with SIL. I just don't feel obligated to drag her around to every social event we go to (as she told DH we should have done with the carnival yesterday).

And the worst part of all is that DH actually took his sister's side yesterday. He said when we were in CA, I spent lots of time with my mom. Yes, that is true, but I'm a SAHM, my mom is a SAHM, so during the weekdays, I had plenty of time to get together with her! However, I always made sure that on weekends, the kids and I did family stuff with DH. If SIL wants to quit her job to stay-at-home, then she'd absolutely be more than welcome to come over all the time to help cook, clean, and watch the kids like my mom did for me. I got really pissed at DH last night, and I'm not sure if he feels bad or what, but he brought me breakfast in bed this morning.

Anyways, I need some ideas on how to draw the line or otherwise solve this problem before I try talking to DH tonight. SIL is assuming that we're going to go to another 4th of July festival this weekend with her, and I'm not sure how I feel about that anymore.

Thank you for reading this loooooong post!

[SnuggleBuggles]

I value family a lot and would make the time to hang out together at least as much as you are doing. Once or twice a month hardly sounds like a lot. Sorry. She isn't going to be like your mom but, honestly, it can be great to have her around as an extra set of hands and eyes. She wants to be an involved aunt. Maybe that is really important to her. I know if my niece and nephew were at all close by that I would spend as much time as possible with them.

Beth

[truly scrumptious]

How about turning this around and offering her options for how she can hang out with you (which work for you)? e.g. "We're going to the museum this Wednesday. Are you working that day or can you join us?" or "We'll be spending Saturday morning running errands and grocery shopping. Not very exciting but you're welcome to come along." That way you control which outings you invite her to, and if she can't go due to work or other plans (or doesn't want to), it's her call (and it'll make it okay for you to say No now and then too.) Of course, this assumes that you ARE willing to hang out with her at those times. But at least that way you won't feel like you have to take time out from your busy schedule (or family-alone time) to spend with her.

[egoldber]

Does it have to be an outing? Maybe she can just join your family for dinner on a weekend night. Nothing like summer BBQs for low key family get togethers. :) I know it is always more stressful for me to "visit" with family when I am out with my kids than it is in my own home.

I agree that it sounds like she wants to be involved and I think that is great. My kids adore my SILs, which is wonderful because my own family stinks and is not involved at all. But I think it's great if they can have a special relationship with an aunt.

FWIW, we live 2.5-3 hours from DH's sisters and we see them almost once a month, and at least every other month.

[hillview]

I think the idea of inviting her to some of your events is a good one. I think it is hard for childless people to understand life with kids. I know it was for me pre kids!

I'd talk to her and tell her how much you love spending time with her and sort out some plan -- maybe a monthly get together or something?
/hillary

[SunCB]

Okay, we have moved now (9 months ago but lived there 5 yrs) but (car ride) MIL & FIL were 3 mins, SIL1 was 10 mins, & SIL2 (& BIL ~ not a big fan of little kids plus work took him away a lot) were 22 mins away. I saw his family a few times a wk and at least every other wk we were eating over there even if a small meal bc they had watched the kids.

Once a month may seem like a lot to some but if the person is trying to get to know your children then probably not. I would love to have my brother and SIL3 by me and would watch their girls (only people who make me an Aunt) for them (brother is AF and SIL works for the military FT) if they lived by us. Knowing my family background even if my brother (30 yo) was single still and lived near me he would see my kids at least once a wk if that meant coming over for dinner or taking them to the park or going to a festival with us. But I grew up where we saw quite a bit of our extended family (lived with Aunt/Uncle/Cousins for 1 yr too bc we were suppose to move several states away and our house was sold so when my Dad's job fell through we had no place to live) and still even when I go back home I go see several of my extended family members (my kids LOVE my 1 Aunt/Uncle's house bc of their dog and pool).

Also, DH's sisters are 9 and 12 yrs older than me plus I am certainly more outgoing so at first it was a bit awkward but I worked with it and it got better over time.

You need to find out how involved she would like to be. If anything invited SIL over for dinner at the house once a wk. If your kids are in sports/activities let her know when those things are and she can make the choice to attend. Maybe she could watch your kids while you go on a date. Hope this is something to consider at the least.

[boolady]

I value family a lot and would make the time to hang out together at least as much as you are doing. Once or twice a month hardly sounds like a lot. Sorry. She isn't going to be like your mom but, honestly, it can be great to have her around as an extra set of hands and eyes. She wants to be an involved aunt. Maybe that is really important to her. I know if my niece and nephew were at all close by that I would spend as much time as possible with them.

Beth

I agree. We are within 1 hour of my immediate family and DH's immediate family, and seeing them approx. once a month is not excessive, IMO, even for my in-laws. It's not my favorite way to spend a Sunday, especially since DH and I both WOH full-time and we are only together with DD on Sundays (DH works on Saturdays), but if family wants to spend time with her and us, we try to make it happen.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I value family a lot and would make the time to hang out together at least as much as you are doing. Once or twice a month hardly sounds like a lot. Sorry. She isn't going to be like your mom but, honestly, it can be great to have her around as an extra set of hands and eyes. She wants to be an involved aunt. Maybe that is really important to her. I know if my niece and nephew were at all close by that I would spend as much time as possible with them.

Beth
:yeahthat:

if she wants to do something with you every weekend, then that sounds like an issue, but once a month hardly sounds like a lot IMO. an SIL that wants to be involved with her nephews/nieces sounds way better than a SIL that wants nothing to do them.

i agree with PP suggestions that maybe you can invite her to dinner during the weekday rather than something that involves a ton of energy & time like a full-day outing on a weekend. or maybe if u have to do errands on a weekend (like a Costco run) invite her to come along and she can do some shopping too. maybe it'd be easier, having an extra set of hands to help with kids etc. since she's your family it doesn't have to be a fancy event or take up a ton of time.

i live a 5-hr drive from my ILs and mainly we see them every other month. if we only lived 1/2 drive, for sure we would see them more often.

[alien_host]

Do you enjoy the time you do spend with SIL? If she wants to get to know your kids and be involved, I'd personally be embracing it. I have two SILs that live within 30 minutes drive (as does MIL). One I only see on average once a month (usually at family gatherings)...she works full time and is very busy. For us that's OK. The other SIL and I get together maybe once a week or at least every other week, sometimes more. She has kids and it revolves around kid activities at times but I value that relationship.


If SIL wants to quit her job to stay-at-home, then she'd absolutely be more than welcome to come over all the time to help cook, clean, and watch the kids like my mom did for me.

I know you are frustrated but this seemed like you don't want to spend time with SIL b/c she isn't "helping" you like your mom did or you feel obligated to "drag" her around with you. IMO it's nice for family to help each other out but just social time is fine too.

Perhaps SIL is feeling like the only time she gets to spend with you is going to events, I agree with PPs....ask her to come over for dinner one night after work. It sounds like she'd be up for that...just hanging out with you, your DH and the kids.

Maybe she'd be happy to help watch the kids for an hour to have one on one time and you and DH could run out for an ice cream or coffee or even dinner.

I do think maybe the two of you need to work out some sort of happy medium...if she wants to see you once a week and you only once a month then maybe every other week would be best. Maybe your DH can talk with his sister and you guys can work something out because in the long run I think your DC's relationship with their aunt is important. Sometimes you do things b/c it's best for the kids and this *might* be one of them.

[sste]

I think the key, as other posters have alluded to, is to find a way to see the relative that works well for you. I have struggled with this too with ILs. Our problem has been that I have conferences at least 8 weekends a year and DH works at least 10 weekends per year - -often different weekends. So, 1-2 weekends per month are GONE from the get-go. For some reason, it is very hard to explain to relatives that you *need* some weekends for errands and unscheduled time. Plus, ILs and I have had a strained relationship of late.

Anyway, DH and I eventually sought professional guidance as we were having so much conflict over this and the therapist rec'd two strategies that have worked VERY well: 1) I rarely have time to go the gym or hairdresser or even massage once in a while and so I schedule those things during the relative's visit and inform them upfront that I will be gone part of the time for something I have long been trying to schedule - - I am there when they arrive, I warmly greet, we hang out for a half hour or so, and then I get two or three hours of alone time. Often I rejoin for a nice dinner. This was awkward the first time but now it is very routine and really ILs don't care -- they want to see DH and DS!; 2) we do refuse when we are traveling too much but we frame it as "Not X month because we have two work weekends, but why don't we make plans right now for 6-8 weeks for now for a special family dinner/outing/etc. Its kind of a bait and switch - - refusal plus very nice invitation extended or a LATER date!

[doberbrat]

maybe fri night dinners would work? (or any other week night) so it would occupy less "family" time? although, remember she's family too.....

if she wants to be an involved aunt, perhaps she could babysit 1x a month - or more often if she's interested. before my cousin moved, they were our closest relative. When her first was born, I babysat every Fri for them. even if they just went to take a nap, I got time to spend w/my nephew. it was important to me.

I know it must be hard, but remember, some of us would give our right arm to have an IL who is at all nearby and/or interested in our kids....

[Andi98989]

Our family all lives within 30 minutes of home. On Sunday we head over to IL's for lunch with MIL, FIL and SIL; sometimes BIL and his wife are able to come, too. It's a nice way for them to stay involved. Of course things come up and we're not over there every single week. One week we didn't get over there and the next Friday DH and I had dinner plans, so IL's came over to babysit. It got them some great 1-on-1 time with DS.

Would setting up a "scheduled" thing work? Like you do something with her the 3rd Friday of the month, for example?\

ETA: Perhaps she can hang out with the kids or lend an extra set of hands when you're doing your errand running weekends. Sometimes that's just easier done without the kids. :)

[Momof3Labs]

The thought that crossed my mind is that she's trying to catch up after living cross-country from you for so long. And get to know the kids again. I would definitely try to invite her over maybe 1x/week (sometimes, just for a weeknight dinner and then let her help with the bedtime routine), but ask her to play with the kids so you can get something done or stay with the kids while you and DH run an errand alone or go out for lunch. Down the road, maybe she'll stay with the kids for a whole weekend so you can go away!!

I'm not trying to turn her into slave labor for you, but I'm assuming that since she seems to love to be around the kids, she'd love to be more involved in their lives, which includes the mundane in addition to the special outings.

If my nieces lived that close to me, I'd want to see them at least a couple of times a month, too, I think.

[AnnieW625]

I personally think she is just trying to be nice and wants to see you guys. Let her know that you guys often plan things at the last minute or a week ahead of time so that if there is something going on on a specific day then she needs to tell you about it before your deadline. I agree that maybe the best way is to start by having her over for dinner every so often.

Prior to us moving to SoCal in 2004 we lived about 10 minutes from each set of inlaws. DH and I always went to my parents house more because they always made us feel more welcome. Of course at my ILs house we (or at least DH) was always welcome but there were always things going on or it seemed like stipulations about being over there so we didn't go as much. Now my ILs live 1100 miles (17 hrs) away so we maybe see them three times a year for a few hours. For my kids' sake it's not enough, but we have to live it because they live where they want to live, and we live where we want to live. DD1 knows both my siblings and my parents even though they live 400 miles but she gets way more excited about seeing them because they actually spend time with her. With my BIL+W when we lived in NorCal we saw them once every couple of months as a couple (sometimes me and DH would meet BIL for lunch as we all worked in the same general area), but since BILW and I have had a less than stellar friendship it was easier to just not hang out with them at times.

I would be very grateful that your single no kids SIL wants to hang out with you guys because there are many out there including BIL+W that didn't want much to do with their friends who had kids as they often threw two parties, one for friends with kids, and one for friends without kids. Seemed odd to me. Now that they have a baby though it should be interesting to see how they handle their friends w/o kids. DD1 can't tell you the names of her aunt and uncle, and she is 4. She sees them maybe twice a year, again like the ILs for a few hours.

[roobee]

I understand your frustration - it's not fair for your SIL to get in a snit about last minute plans and you not inviting her to your outing, that's unreasonable. And then to have your DH take her side- I would be mad too.

We see my IL's OFTEN - there's a weekly invitation for us to come over, throw in birthdays and holidays and it is a major source of conflict between me and DH. Oh, and there are exactly 4 days each month that DH and I have time off to spend time as a family (I work every other weekend). Add my local family, chores, errands, downtime, our couple friends - I get upset just thinking about all the directions I'm pulled.

I'm actually still mad about a stunt my MIL pulled this past x-mas and have limited the IL activities to about 1 time a month, it feels amazing! DH still sees them about 3 times a month while I'm working which bothers me a little, but not enough to say anything.

[wencit]

Thank you for all your input! I'm not sure if I made it clear, but I'm not saying one or two weekend days a month is excessive, and I am all for my kids getting to know their aunt. However, anything more than that starts to become a little oppressive for me, because it then becomes pretty much every weekend, which is just too much. I like the idea of having SIL come over here for dinner on a weekday night, though. That never even crossed my mind.

I've actually thought about having her babysit or come over to help watch the kids, but I am really hesitant to do so, because I don't want to be seen like I am just "using" her, KWIM?


I know you are frustrated but this seemed like you don't want to spend time with SIL b/c she isn't "helping" you like your mom did or you feel obligated to "drag" her around with you. IMO it's nice for family to help each other out but just social time is fine too. Yeah, in my frustration, that didn't quite come out right. Like I said, I don't expect or need anything from SIL. I was trying to say that I used to go to my mom's often (which wasn't even that often -- every other week), in part because she was a huge help to me, which I appreciated. I don't expect SIL to help me with the kids, and like I said above, I actually try to make sure she doesn't feel that way.

I'm not saying that I don't enjoy being around SIL, I just want to have my space, too. With her working full-time 5 days a week, the best times for her to see the kids are on the weekends, but there are only so many weekends in a month. DH and I were planning to have her over for a game night one of these days, but he has been so slow in asking her, I should probably just do it myself. We'll start with something simple like that and see where it goes from there. And I will definitely have to talk to her about how she feels regarding doing some of the "mundane" stuff with the kids.

Thanks again for giving me some fresh perspective on this. :)

[alien_host]

I've actually thought about having her babysit or come over to help watch the kids, but I am really hesitant to do so, because I don't want to be seen like I am just "using" her, KWIM?

Yeah, in my frustration, that didn't quite come out right. Like I said, I don't expect or need anything from SIL. I was trying to say that I used to go to my mom's often (which wasn't even that often -- every other week), in part because she was a huge help to me, which I appreciated. I don't expect SIL to help me with the kids, and like I said above, I actually try to make sure she doesn't feel that way.



I agree, it's a fine line to walk between getting a "babysitter" vs time together. I'd try some weeknight dinners and another weekend activity or two and see how it goes.. She sounds like she might offer up the babysitting once you start seeing her more. :)

I hear you on the everyweekend thing. It's hard. We like having time with just the immediate family too...try to strike a balance with her.

Does she work near where you live? Could you meet her with the kids for lunch one day during the week? That might give you guys some time and allow her to take a lunch break. Even something simple like getting a pizza or sandwiches or an ice cream?

[edurnemk]

Her reaction was out of line, IMO, so I get your frustration, she has a right to be involved but she can't expect to be invited to every outing. I also completely understand feeling a little overwhelmed about seeing her too often, especially since you were not used to that. And if the outings always involve going to festivals... well that can get exhausting. Since she is childless it probably has not crossed her mind that it's not easy to take kids on such outings every weekend. So just tell her. That's what I do. When friends and family are trying to plan some big outing, I just openly say "you know, that's a nice idea, but with DS it's not going to be so enjoyable, it's a lot easier for us to have you guys come over to our house, DS has his space and can run around and play without us worrying about him running off or something and we can actually have a conversation with you guys." I also tell them taht if we go out, I won't ge tot spend time with them because I'll be running after DS 90% of the time. People never get upset with that explanation and are happy to adjust to a more simple or mundane plan. I'm sure she' trying to come up with plans she thinks will be fun, but if presented with an alternative she'll go for it, too.

I recently moved near my IL's, after living 3000 miles away... and it takes time to adjust. We are expected to come for lunch every weekend. I hate it, they expect us to dedicate all our free time to them. But except for some rare weekend when we have the excuse of having other plans, there's no getting out of it, DH is all about pleasing mommy and daddy. At first they kept wanting to go to restaurants, and I just said "you know, that just doesn't work with a 2 year old, it's so much easier to do lunch at our house or your place"

So the weekday dinner and occassional weekend plan sounds like a good idea to have her see you guys without having to give up all of your family time on weekends.

[boolady]

I really think you should explore the weeknight dinner idea. It works very well with my FIL, who otherwise pops over at the most inopportune times. I invite him over on a night when I know we're having something simple (in the winter a crockpot meal or casserole, in warmer weather, something on the grill and a salad). It lets him feel like he's spent time with DD, and he is definitely less likely to call on a weekend and ask when we're stopping over.

ETA: This came out sounding mean. We still see him for larger family get-togethers and things, it just seems to work really well. Perhaps I should have left it at that. ;)

[KrisM]

When I was working, one of my coworkers was childless and had a neice. She had the neice spend the night one Saturday a month and that was their special time together. She did see the neice and family at other times, but that one Saturday meant a lot to both my friend and her neice, especially as the neice got older. When the neice was in her teens, they started doing vacations together as well. I think it really was a very special relationship for the two of them.

Maybe you can try to start some sort of tradition with SIL. It doesn't have to be an overnight, but maybe she can take the kids out one Saturday a month to a special playground and then for ice cream.

[cuca_]

As some have mentioned (I think sste) you can have SIL visit with your DH and DC and have some time to yourself then. Once in a while my DH takes my kids to see my MIL, and I get to spend the day doing stuff for myself. If your DH proposes this idea, and is present during this time, then you will not feel like you are using her as a babysitter. And who knows, she might enjoy it enough to offer to babysit for you later on.

[newg]

I think you've gotten a lot of good ideas already about other ways to include your SIL. I do alot of this same stuff with my own sister.......who I am thrilled with about being an involved Aunt.....she is also single and works full time and it took her a while to understand that I now have a family and a toddler, so last minute stuff/crazy stuff doesn't work for us...........

I think her being single is a big part of why she got so upset.........hopefully she'll figure it out soon.

My sis will come over for dinner after work sometimes. She gets a free meal, a chance to play with DD and I don't have a crazy DD climbing on my leg while I try to make dinner and then clean it up. J has told me many times that she loves "babysitting" DD, so now I try to make sure I give her a call if I need someone to watch DD.

[bluestarfish18]

I drink. Heavily. ;) (only half joking)

[niccig]

You have to clue her in on the last minute plans do not work when you have kids. Tell her that you would have loved to have gone to the festival, but you need to know in advance as you're weekends get filled up with errands, kids birthday parties (we often have 1 or 2 a month), play dates, house projects etc. DH is still struggling with not being able to do last minute plans and DS is 5 yo, so a single person with no kids will not know that you can't just call and say "meet me at the festival in 30 mins."

I like the idea of a weeknight dinner that is low key. Tell her you're starting family pizza night, or whatever, and she is welcome to come when ever she can make it. When she suggests something and you have plans, immediately follow up with "but how about x day/night we do this" - my only concern will be if she tries to come to EVERY thing you do. That would bother me.

I would encourage special events like taking the kids out for ice cream etc. My sister lives in the UK and only sees DS once every 12-18 months. On her last visit, she banished DH and I from the house for THREE date nights in a row, and she and DS made a fort in his bedroom - it was from wall to wall, ceiling to floor, it had rooms, and they used ALL the sheets I owned. He still talks about it. If your SIL can be that kind of fun, encourage it.

[maestramommy]

It sounds like SIL got really excited when you moved to MA, and had visions of spending a lot more time with her bro and his family. And being a single childless person, she has different ideas as to what your family can handle. Maybe she's also a little irked/jealous that having just got here, you already seem to have a buzzing social life.

I think you and Dh need to talk about what is workable for your family, and he needs to talk to his sister. AND present it in a way so it's YOUR (as in his and yours) decision, not just you. I think the disagreement you had last night (was it last night? I'm late to this:p) was necessary because now your Dh (hopefully) understands that the situation in CA was in no way comparable to what it is here. Since he's not at home during the day he may not have seen the detailed differences.

ETA: I like everyone's ideas about just having her over for dinner, instead of making it an outing every time. That would get exhausting for me. And I agree with Nicci that she needs to know last minute plans don't work very well with little kids.

[wencit]

Thank you again for all your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate them!

DH and I talked last night. First off, he said he was very sorry that he yelled and blamed me for everything. He was upset after his sister had verbally lashed out at him, and he ended up taking it out on me, since I was right there, and he admitted that it was not right. He also said that he was totally fine with seeing his sister once every 3-4 weeks, and until this past weekend, wasn't even aware that it was an issue for her. That made me feel better, because I was starting to believe that I was crazy and/or selfish for thinking every 3-4 weeks was OK. Still, he was very open to the idea of SIL coming over here for dinner after work and hanging out with the kids, just very low-key stuff, so I think we will ask her what she thinks about that. As someone else mentioned upthread, it's a fine line between having her come over "just because" vs "free babysitting," and I feel like I have to tread lightly in this regard.

I just feel so much better that DH and I are on the same page. Again, I SO appreciate your suggestions! You ladies are awesome.

[newg]

Glad to know your DH is back on your side...........that will make a big difference in talking with "his" sister about getting together!!

Hope you can find a happy medium!!

Oh, and my sister doesn't consider it babysitting when she watches DD for us........she considers it special play time with DD while DH and I are out of the house. And I don't ask her all the time....just on the few weekends that DH and I might like to do dinner or a movie (which rarely happens!) I think as DD gets older my sister will start taking her to do fun stuff (which won't be considered babysitting), so DH and I can have some alone time.
But again, i wouldn't ask her if she didn't want to.......and we've talked about this.

Good luck!!