Advice needed: DS is a follower and making bad choices

[set81616]

Today a child asked DS to throw mulch in her face and DS did it. Apparently this child has had other kids do similar things. In the same day DS's best friend told him to go get another child and he did that too. He and BF ended up dragging the other child by the shirt and hurting him. I've always known DS was going to be a follower but I hoped he would still do the right thing. We talked to him about making right choices, did a little play acting and he is being separated from BF at school. Is there a book we can read to him? Any suggestions to get him to do what he knows is right. I know he is only 4 but I don't want him to really learn he needs to do what is right. He can be a follower as long as he is still true to himself kwim?
Thanks,
Shannon

[american_mama]

I read your question when you first posted it, but didn't have any suggestions. I didn't want it to get buried, though.... I kept thinking about you saying you always knew your son was going to be a follower. I think it takes a lot of honesty to say that.

No real advice, but I do think you can heavily stress to your child to never do anything that hurts someone, even if they ask you to. I think that kind of request can be common kid behavior, almost like a dare - "Throw mulch in my face, I dare you, it won't hurt me, I'm tough, it'll be funny" blah blah. It can be very confusing for a child - "This kid is asking me to do something wrong to him? I guess it can't be wrong then." So I think for that specific kind of situation, you have to stress very hard, repeatedly, to never take that dare, never get goaded into breaking the rules (which I think is sometimes another reason a child dares a child to do something bad to themselves... they want to see if they can "make" another kid do something wacky.)

I do know a friend at school dealt with something a bit similar with her 1st grade son when another boy dared him to pull his pants down on the playground. My friend's son is quite an athlete, works great on sports teams, and his mom reminded him what a leader he is there, the compliments he gets there, and why he would ignore that and follow some stupid dare in a different setting. She also reminded him that the other boy gets in trouble easily and isn't her son's favorite child, so again, why would he follow someone like that.

[pinkmomagain]

I think you're a great mom for recognizing this and being proactive to do something about it.

I have no BTDT advice, but I'm wondering if enrolling your ds in a martial arts class might help? As I understand it, many have seen benefits from it for their dc: confidence, discipline, self-esteem, preserverence.

Hopefully more experienced moms will weigh-in. GL!

[crl]

I don't have any great answers. But I do frequently emphasize to my son that I don't care what other kids do or say, he is responsible for himself. He is seven so I'm not sure how much a four year old would understand that. But ds seems to and it seems to help that I have given him a pretty simple mantra that applies in a lot of situations.

Catherine

[LMPC]

I think at this age, kids are still finding their sense of self, and it can be hard not to do what others ask them to do. I also think it's great that you are addressing this now, and recognize patterns in his behavior that might need some active parenting.

My advice would be to address it from several different angles. First, books are a great way to ask him what others should do....you probably have some at home that would work well. Try to get him to say what a character should and shouldn't do. Second, when you are out and about, you can ask him what others should do that he is observing. Using everyday occurrences can reinforce what you are hoping he learns. I also think PP's suggestion about "no hurting" as a rule is a good one.

Let us know how things go!

[janeybwild]

My oldest DD is/was a bit of a follower and is certainly a "pleaser" which can get her in trouble (she just finished 1st grade). She has matured a lot over the past year. We talked about how you know something is not “ok” to do (that squirmy feeling in your tummy, is it something you would ok telling someone else you did etc.), then did ( and continue to do) some pretend play in the safety of our home. It seemed to me that she needed permission and practice to say no and to say it firmly. Similar to practicing stranger danger. For example, to stand up to another child I first played the part of a child she is trying to get to do something not ok, she played the part of another child trying to get me to do it. She would pick something silly for me to do, like show my belly button to her. I would ham it up being uncomfortable and not good at saying no, then getting more confident, and finally saying no politely but firmly. We advanced to pushy kids who won’t take no for an answer and what to do then. HTH.

[sste]

Set8616, where do you think your DC is in terms of his cognitive development curve?

Our daycare provider recently pointed out to us different scenarios going on in the room and how kids were responding to conflict or tricky situations. Our DS, who is almost 3, tends to literally walk away from any serious or escalating conflict and on one or two occasions he has enlisted the teacher's help (x is being mean). He is really one of the few in his classroom that does this consistently. DH and I have been patting ourselves on the back for months for having raised a Toddler of Peace. But, as his teacher I think rightly pointed out to us last week toddlers and preschoolers don't really have much in the way of moral development. She noted that DS was far ahead not because of his character or moral fiber but in this aspect of his cognitive development - - he was able to problem-solve other solutions and think about whether x toy was really worth a brawl.

It may be that your DC is fast on other aspects of development but is maturing more slowly with respect to social problem-solving. I wouldn't resign yourself to him being a follower yet. :)

[Mommy_Again]

We have lots of chats about good choices and bad choices. Of course we do this when serious things happen, but I also try to relate it to the mundane, i.e. kicking the chair repeatedly at the dinner table. I try to install in DS that everything in life is a choice and he has control over his actions. And every action has reactions, results and consequences - some good, some bad. I think the greatest things we can do as parents is just to keep the communication open as long as possible - if we're lucky, they'll keep talking to us in 10 years when they're having to make choices about drinking, drugs and sex (when we only WISH they'd be throwing mulch in each other's faces!). Good for you for recognizing his personality traits and looking for ways to work with him.

[Roni]

We have a book called "Hands are Not for Hitting", and I know that there's a whole series of those kinds of books. Maybe something like that would be helpful. That's a tough situation, though. Good for you for being proactive.

Are you religious at all? Can you bring religion into it in a positive way? For example, in Kindergarten CCD, dd#2 was learning about the saints and how we are part of the Communion of Saints. So, she told us that she was a saint (except for the dead part), and that motivated her to behave better.

If not, you can still talk about being a good friend, etc. Also, try to encourage good behaviors with positive reinforcement.

Were there consequences for hurting the boy in school, other than separating him from his friend? I would think that an apology to the hurt student would be a good step.

Good luck!

[set81616]

Thanks for the responses. I don't know if his teacher made him apologize. They talk alot about good choices and being good friends. It sounds like they let DS and his BF play again the next day if they were good. Apparetnly DS is easily swayed by BF and BF likes to test the boundaries. They play great when it is just the 2 of them. I'm actually scared for DS for when he becomes a teen.

Karate is a thought. Finances are tight. ANy suggestions to make karate affordable?

We will try to role play some more. I ask him every day if he made good choices.

The teacher said that DS makes really good choices when it is up to him alone, but that he is easily swayed by others.

I just hope that we can get him through this before more serious issues arise.
Thanks,
Shannon