UDPATE: Relatives Playing Head Games with your Kids (long!)

[sste]

UPDATE: From bad to worse. Mother callled today. I have been waiting to bring up the point that we absolutely need her to be more positive and refrain from comments/behaviors described below as she was in the hospital for 3 days with an infection. Anyway, though DS hugged and kissed her hello and goodbye each day and made several nice gestures apparently DS also told her he didn't like her during the visit and once said he didn't like her because she was sick. As we explained to her many times and as she WITNESSED with respect to DS and DH, DS is going through a huge phase of telling me, dh, his beloved nanny, everyone in his path that he doesn't like them (or that he loves them so much). He even makes up songs which he switches up to pit dh and I against each other, "I loooooove mama, but I don't like dada" or vice versa. We mainly ignore it, though we do tell him a few times a week that this could hurt someone's feelings and make them feel sad. As far as I can tell from asking around, this is just something two-year olds do to explore relationships and their emotional power over people.

Anyway, I told mother that DS had been talking about going on a plane to visit her again. And mother said, "I don't want him to visit me. He hurt me very badly. I can't believe you stood by and let him behave like that to me. And that DH actually said to me I needed to be more understanding that he was two years old. I don't want to be with him."

Holy cr*p. I am just devastated by this turn of events. I told her I needed to go and we would talk later and hung up. I suppose, however, this resolves the question of visiting her in the NEGATIVE.

Thanks posters for your helpful suggestions. I think I forgot to thank everyone before.
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We just returned from vacation to visit my ill mother, who adores and practically lives for DS. Well, DS is an active 2.5 year old and my mother insists on spending hours sitting like a piece of furniture in her house, watching DS play, and yelling out many times per day in her emphysemed voice, "Give me a kiss." Mother does have limited mobility but she could do something to interact with DS, play cars with him, read to him etc. Essentially, mother puts HERSELF in the role of needy child including the following:

1. I catch her leaning over and saying to DS in this fake-nice voice, "Grandma won't talk to you anymore DS since it makes you sad when grandma talks to you." This after DS was a freaking saint by only getting teary and not chucking food at her after she repeatedly ignored his refusals and attempted to force feed him AFTER he had eaten two full plates of lunch food.

2. She is on the phone with DS directly before the trip and I put the phone on speaker and hear her say to DS, "Grandma is feeling sad today" and then she starts full on crying and sobbing to my two year old!

3. In front of DS, she on more than one occasion discusses with us her completely paranoid belief that DS doesn't like her anymore because my in-laws have said bad things about her and poisoned DS about her. This by the way is crazy and she has also upset DH and I terribly phoning us repeatedly and crying that in-laws have taken DS, her one joy, away from her. It is a very sad situation but true to form my mother has taken the one thing that made her happy (her relationship with DS) and RECREATED it as the instrument of her misery.

4. Not in front of DS, but my mother bursts into tears at least twice during the visit about DS not liking her anymore. He hugs and kisses her hello and goodbye but the rest of the time he wants to run around the yard or play with his cars. My mother and my sister are blaming DH and I because DH and I have "harped" too much to DS that GM is sick. Not the lecture you want to hear (repeatedly) when you have flown half way across the country eight months pregnant on essentially a mission of mercy to visit these losers!

Anyway, DH and I are beside ourselves, especially now that DS understands so much of what is going on around him. We don't leave DS unsupervised with my parents ever, not even to go the bathroom. We have told my mother directly and repeatedly not to say these things to DS, it is upsetting and confusing to him, and immediately removed DS from the situation. But, we can't stop the words before they come out of her mouth.

Has anyone dealt with this or have any ideas?

[misshollygolightly]

Oh my! No btdt, but I'm sorry you're dealing with something so difficult. I hope you find a solution.

[arivecchi]

I am so sorry. :( I am not sure there is any effective way of dealing with your mom's issues vis-a-vis your DS. I think you are already doing what you can: monitor visits, limit access, etc. How do you think your mom would react if you had a chat with her about this and asked her to try to make her interactions with your DS as positive as possible? I would definitely be worried of having my DS witness erratic behavior such as you describe.

Don't mean to overstep my bounds (so feel free to ignore), but is she depressed? That seems to be the root of the problem.

[sste]

Not overstepping at all! She IS depressed and that has isolated her socially which has in turn made her increasingly wierd. She refuses therapy (there is literally no way she would go), I think is on mild meds but they are not working and she will not change meds/doctors. It has been decades like this and she is not going to change unfortunately.

I am going to try to talk to her in a few weeks when things subside about being positive around DS . . . she is just so childish and willful where her needs are concerned that she usually can't change her behavior consistently.

Well, so much for vacation, it was more like an emotional root canal!

[egoldber]

Wow! My mom is in a very similar situation health-wise, but yours really makes mine seem like Mary Poppins. :hug:

Honestly, if my mom was doing that, I would stop visiting. And I would tell her why. Not in a mean way, but the truth. "Mom, we have told you not to say these things, but you continue. DS is now at the age where he really understands all these conversations and he finds them very upsetting. So unless you can stop saying the things we have asked you to not say, we can no longer visit with him. Let us know when you are ready."

And then do it. I know it is hard when your mother is sick and you see the mortality on the wall, but you have to protect your kids.

[TwinFoxes]

Ugh, just ugh. Why are people so twisted? I really think passive aggressiveness is my least favorite trait. I can't put up with it.

Have you tried saying to her what you said to her? That visits with DS could bring her joy if she didn't make them her instrument of torture? It may not help, buy it could maybe snap her out of her crazy world just a little bit, so she can enjoy the time she has left with DS.

I hate to say this, but I bet she drops DS like a hot potato once DC2 is born. :(

I'm so sorry. That could NOT have been what you wanted to do while majorly pregnant.

[truly scrumptious]

:hug: I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. While I haven't experienced anything so extreme, I have had relatives get offended when DS wants to play by himself and not interact/pay attention to them. They basically think it is proof how much he loves them if he stops playing to hug them or talk to them. While I am usually thinking "Leave the kid alone! He's perfectly happy playing over there."

I know you mentioned you and your DH are always around, so you can act as a buffer between her and your DS. I thought of a couple of things that might help you:
- You are already planning to talk to her about being more positive
- Focus on how you want your DS to react to his GM's behavior and model it for him. For example, do you want him to ignore her? Change the subject? Respond "I love you, Grandma"? Then model that behavior. You can come up with one or two stock responses (or changes of subject) to use whenever you see things going down that route - "Let's all sing DS's favorite song!" (That will effectively stop all conversation and change the subject. Or you can come up with a "Grandma song" which is a song he sings to/with her to "show" her he cares, which he can do even when playing with cars - or you can do on his behalf.)
- Buffer, buffer, buffer. If she says something inappropriate, step in and direct DS elsewhere. (I know you're already doing this, but you will literally need to be constantly vigilant.) If she is seeking his attention inappropriately, step in, telling her DS will hug her after he finishes coloring, or whatever. In earshot of your DS, this basically gives him permission to finish what he's doing.
- Your DS is older than mine so I'm not sure at what point this will be appropriate, but at some point you will probably want to start talking to him about it. How does it make him feel when GM wants him to stop playing to kiss her? etc. And over time you can show him that GM can be sad sometimes, and although he loves her and wants her to feel better, it is not his responsibility to make her feel better. (So he doesn't feel obliged to hug and kiss her because she is guilting him into it.)

I'm not sure if any of this helps, but it is what I would try in your shoes. GL!

[nov04]

Honestly, if my mom was doing that, I would stop visiting. And I would tell her why. Not in a mean way, but the truth. "Mom, we have told you not to say these things, but you continue. DS is now at the age where he really understands all these conversations and he finds them very upsetting. So unless you can stop saying the things we have asked you to not say, we can no longer visit with him. Let us know when you are ready."

And then do it. I know it is hard when your mother is sick and you see the mortality on the wall, but you have to protect your kids.

Exactly! It can be extremely difficult to stand up to relatives, but its completely necessary.

[sste]

Update in post 1 . . .

[arivecchi]

I am so sorry. :( It really sounds like you have done everything you can but she just cannot handle dealing with a child because of her condition. I wish I had something more helpful to say, but I would just focus on other positive things in your life. This relationship is just way too complicated and toxic for a 2 year old. Hugs to you. :hug:

[truly scrumptious]

I'm so sorry to hear how this turned out. As you said, it seems to resolve it for now - as in, stay away. As arivecchi said, time to focus on the positive relationships in your life. Like us :grouphug:

[brgnmom]

oh no, sorry that you're going through this - it must have been frustrating taking the long trip while you're in your 3rd trimester, and then having to deal with all this. I agree with the previous posters -- to focus on your positive relationships. try to stay positive and be nurturing to yourself, especially since you're in your 3rd trimester now. :hug:

[California]

It sounds like your mom is depressed. For me that would be the first thing I would investigate by talking to your dad (or stepdad) and her personal physician. I've helped care for relatives and medication, the interaction of medication, poor diet, being stuck at home a lot and feeling cut off from the world, a chronic illness- these are all things that can bring on depression. Have you talked to your dad/stepdad about that? Is he open to discussing it?

[elektra]

So sorry. So hard to deal with someone who can't understand that two year olds say things that and it means nothing.
Sounds like she has some major issues.
My own mother has always refused therapy too, which is so ironic considering that mental health was her speciality in her health care career!
I agree that she just might not be capable of changing or understanding the situation for what it is- a 2yo being a 2yo, and not someone who truly doesn't love her and wants to cause her grief!

[fivi2]

She sounds like mother. I cut my mother out of my life for a long time, but I allowed her back in to a small extent to see the kids. But she is on a very tight leash. The minute she starts up with her nasty, poisonous crap, it ends. She is asked to leave (she comes to us. If we were there, we would leave. I did take the girls there last year, but we stayed in a hotel). period. no guilt trips, no arguing.

I don't know your relationship with your mother. I am at the point with mine, that I truly do not care about her "reasons" for acting the way she does (depression, personality disorder, chronic pain, etc). I have tried to help her in the past, she did not want it, so I am d.o.n.e. She is an adult and needs to live with the consequences of her actions. If she doesn't behave, she is out of our lives. (I realize that may sound harsh, and you may not be at that point with your mother, but that is how I have dealt with it.) With mine, there is no logic, reasoning, pointing out things she has done that are crazy. She is so deranged that she twists everything in her head so it is all about her and what everyone has done to her.

You can't argue or reason with crazy. You can only protect yourself and your ds. I am sorry I don't have time for more and will be away from the internet for a while, but I really think you and your dh need to talk about what is okay for you and your family and let your mother deal with her own issues.

eta: okay - I sound pretty harsh because of my own issues and I am in a hurry. But I do mean what I said - you need to take care of yourself... just pretend I said it more diplomatically :)

[mommylamb]

It sounds like your mom is depressed.

:yeahthat: What a hard situation. Has she had depression issues in the past? What your son is doing is so normal for a kid his age. DS always does that kind of thing. One moment he likes daddy, the next he doesn't and he likes mommy.

I know you've already done this, but I think you need to give her one more big talk about how this is normal for a kid and that he does it to everyone and that she can't continue acting this way or you're not going to bring him to see her because it's not fair to him.

So sorry.:hug:

[sste]

Thank you everyone - - you all so kind and I appreciate it. This whole situation is so embarassing and bizarre I would hesitate to tell anyone IRL.

I do think she is depressed but she has refused every effort to get her help and better medication. But I will write a letter to my father reiterating the need for treatment. And one to her as well.

I know its hard to believe but she is not in a place where she can hear me talk about what two year olds normally do. DH tried to explain that to her and her angry response was "he is almost 3."

The tricky thing is that she also has a mean and selfish streak that is I think separate from the mental illness though the mental problems exacerbate it. Her BS is admittedly much more severe now that she is physically ill but she endlessly told me growing up I wasn't her favorite my sister was, she was the best friend I would ever have, she loved me because I was her child but she didn't like me, etc. I made a decision at a very young age, probably around middle school, not to dwell on this in any way or pay it much mind - - I was able to see even then that her opinion was not one to credit. But, I think I did this to such an extent that this thing with DS caught me by surprise.

Fivi2 I am not at all offended . . . and I am at the point you describe and perhaps even beyond it. DS is a bright and sensitive boy and I think the odds are at least 50/50 if we went back to visit her in person she would tell him exactly what she told me about not wanting him to visit and that she doesn't like him either. And it is frighteningly clear to me how she would use the new baby to hurt DS by ignoring him in favor of conspicously, constantly cuddling the infant in front of him.

[Mommy_Again]

I'm so sad for you, especially after reading your last post. I just don't understand how a parent can do those things to a child, but she is obviously battling some very serious mental health issues. Thank goodness you had the maturity and perspective as a young teenager to realize this - it sounds like you have a very healthy outlook on the situation.

I really don't think you are going to get anywhere by talking to her. As a PP said - you can't reason with crazy. I know you feel badly because she is physically ill, too - but the visits are doing NO ONE any good. She's not happy, your DS is not happy, you're definitely not happy, and either is your DH. I don't think you'd be unreasonable in cutting off physical contact with her. I'd much rather see you talk about Grandma's good qualities to your children and let them grow up thinking she was a great woman (assuming she won't be around too much longer), than actually have them retain negative memories of her. You can send her monthly cards with photos of the kids which I am sure would cheer her up. But if nothing positive is coming of the visits, I don't think you are under any obligation to continue them.

Hugs.

[shawnandangel]

To me, it sounds like your mother is battling depression. Is she seeing a psychiatrist?

edit - just read your latest update - so sorry to hear about your situation

[cuca_]

I'm sorry you are going through this. Honestly, I would just stay away from her. When I was very young one of my Grandmothers use to say/do mean things and I remember it to this day. I was at least two years older than your son, but remember feeling upset and pretty helpless as I could not understand the situation nor defend myself adequately. Keep your son away from her -- it is not worth it. I don't think she is going to change, and why expose your kid to that sort of behavior and hurtful accusations.

[boogiemomz]

so sorry to hear about this. how very painful to have to negotiate such a dysfunctional relationship between your parent and child, and to have your mother behaving in such a childish way. no advice, just many hugs for you. :hug:

[dcmom2b3]

sste, I'm so sorry. I didn't see your post originally, but have to chime in now to say that I've btdt with the mental illness + physical illness + selfish drama queen mom (slightly different style -- mom's nastiness was always directed toward me, in an effort to curry favor with DD but toxicity nonetheless.) I threatened to cut her off from DD b/c of her damaging influence, and she cut it out. All of it. Maybe because I used the same tone of voice that she used to use when she told me that she'd "forget that I was ever born" if I didn't do X or Y or Z.

If I were in your shoes, I'd cut her off, and explain that you're doing so not b/c she doesn't want to see DS, but because her behavior is damaging to him, and you won't allow him to be hurt. By anyone.

:hug::hug::hug: I know how hard this is.