Political questions from the naive

[BabyMine]

Politics is so confusing. Please let me know if I am wrong on my assumptions and if you can elaborate I would love it.

I keep hearing that in December the Republicans will take over and they will get us out of the recession???

-How can people actually believe that. The recession is more complicated than just a different party elected.

- Why are the Republicans not supporting bills that could help like extending unemployment benefits?

- Are they so stuck of ruining the President that they don't care if it hurts us also?

- Why isn't there more media on all the above? Stop spending is not going to get us out of the recession.

- Are we screwed?

Thank you.

[bubbaray]

Stop spending is not going to get us out of the recession.



Well, the majority of the leaders of the G8 disagree. They supported a deficit reduction plan as opposed to Obama's preferred stimulus plan.

[BabyMine]

Well, the majority of the leaders of the G8 disagree. They supported a deficit reduction plan as opposed to Obama's preferred stimulus plan.

I heard about that. I read somewhere where it was a slap to Obama. How is stopping better going to help?

[bubbaray]

I heard about that. I read somewhere where it was a slap to Obama. How is stopping better going to help?


Well, globally, the thought seems to be that the insane deficits (for example of Greece, but not limited to that country) lead to market instability and "crashes", which aren't good for any country. So, globally, there is this push for deficit reduction.

The prime motivator for this approach was reportedly Canada's Harper. He is a former economist, so one would think/hope he has more than a passing knowledge of economics, KWIM? He is also the Canadian version of a "soft" Republican, though.

I don't think countries can indefinitely spend their way out of trouble.

[BabyMine]

Well, globally, the thought seems to be that the insane deficits (for example of Greece, but not limited to that country) lead to market instability and "crashes", which aren't good for any country. So, globally, there is this push for deficit reduction.

The prime motivator for this approach was reportedly Canada's Harper. He is a former economist, so one would think/hope he has more than a passing knowledge of economics, KWIM? He is also the Canadian version of a "soft" Republican, though.

I don't think countries can indefinitely spend their way out of trouble.

If they don't spend then what do they do? I thought everything was slowly improving until the G8. Then the market started to take a dive.

[wellyes]

I enjoyed The Economist recent podcast "The State of the American Right" on this topic - http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-economist/id151230264 While The Economist is not a left-leaning magazine, this podcast is quite critical of the current Republican party. One of the main points is that while the party talks up cutting spending, there is no desire whatsoever to reduce the massive entitlement spending that benefits their constituents (middle class voters and retirees in particular). Not that I'm arguing that we cut social security or medicare - just that the party has a whole lot of rhetoric but, so far, no workable plan to meet their stated goals.

[katydid1971]

Well, globally, the thought seems to be that the insane deficits (for example of Greece, but not limited to that country) lead to market instability and "crashes", which aren't good for any country. So, globally, there is this push for deficit reduction.

The prime motivator for this approach was reportedly Canada's Harper. He is a former economist, so one would think/hope he has more than a passing knowledge of economics, KWIM? He is also the Canadian version of a "soft" Republican, though.

I don't think countries can indefinitely spend their way out of trouble.


Obama is also very well educated and has received advice from many economists so he has "more than a passing knowledge of economics" too. Of course you can't indefinitely spend your way out of recession, NO ONE is advocating that and its an insult to suggest that is the plan. You sound like a Fox News sound bite..."All they want to do is Spend Spend Spend." There is a lot more to it than that.
If you 200 economists in a room you would be given 200 different ideas on how to fix the recession.

[ThreeofUs]

Obama is also very well educated and has received advice from many economists so he has "more than a passing knowledge of economics" too. Of course you can't indefinitely spend your way out of recession, NO ONE is advocating that and its an insult to suggest that is the plan. You sound like a Fox News sound bite..."All they want to do is Spend Spend Spend." There is a lot more to it than that.
If you 200 economists in a room you would be given 200 different ideas on how to fix the recession.


You know, I found Melissa's analysis pretty balanced wrt what other people in other countries are hearing and thinking about the current US plan and the world's recession/depression problems.

I don't think she was advocating for one view so much as giving another viewpoint, which is what the OP asked, and she was very open about the political leanings of the architect of the deficit reduction plan. This reply seemed awfully harsh to me.

[egoldber]

I agree that I don't think it's that easy. I am as blue a democrat as they come, and I am becoming very uncomfortable with the continued emphasis on stimulus spending. At some point, you tip the balance from stimulus being effective to deficit levels being so high they are unsustainable and create instability. I'm not smart enough or educated enough to know what that line is ;), but when economic leaders are conflicted, obviously there is room for interpretation.

I just wish the various sides could have intelligent debate about it without it getting into an "us vs them" mentality. :( (And I mean that about both sides.)

[mommylamb]

If there were a magical policy button that either party could press to create long term economic stability, I think they would do it. Sadly, there isn't. they may disagree ideologically, but both sides hate to see what is happening to people. Spending (and by spending I mean both direct spending and tax cuts) and lack there of are just a balancing game and it's a throwing spaghetti on the wall exercise to see what works. I do think the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (stimulus bill) was a worthwhile bill and that it staved off even greater economic turmoil. But the poor system set up that got us into this mess was really really bad and there will be long term repercussions no matter what.

I do think it's likely we will see the Republicans take control of both houses come November. Unfortunately for them, this economy becomes their problem to an extent at that point.

And I do not think you will see significant spending cuts under Republicans. During the health care debate many of them came out strongly against the cuts in Medicare included in that bill, saying that the Democrats were out to hurt granny. Those cuts are the only successful attempt in recent memory to rein in a mandatory spending program, so I find it interesting that the Republicans entirely reversed course against their principles in this instance.

The fact is, over half of our direct spending is mandatory spending (this includes your entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and also certain mandatory non-entitlement programs such as S-CHIP and TANF). Those programs can only be cut through the authorizing committees, and those cuts are exceedingly hard to make. This is complicated by the fact that mandatory spending programs that are also entitlement programs have increased spending when more people qualify for them. More people are qualifying for Medicare and Social Security as the baby boomers age and more people are qualifying for Medicaid as people lose their jobs or become underemployed.

About 40 percent of direct spending is discretionary spending programs. These are the programs where appropriators determine spending, and the easiest place to cut. But more than half of the discretionary programs are in the defense department, and another big chunk are homeland security, so it leaves very little left over to cut.

The rest of our spending is interest on our debt. No getting out of that.

[MontrealMum]

Obama is also very well educated and has received advice from many economists so he has "more than a passing knowledge of economics" too. Of course you can't indefinitely spend your way out of recession, NO ONE is advocating that and its an insult to suggest that is the plan. You sound like a Fox News sound bite..."All they want to do is Spend Spend Spend." There is a lot more to it than that.
If you 200 economists in a room you would be given 200 different ideas on how to fix the recession.

This is really pretty harsh considering that what Melissa very succinctly summed up is what we're hearing in Canada on the three major Canadian networks. Since the G8 happened here in Canada, obviously there's been a lot of reporting on it. I haven't a clue what they're saying on Fox News as I never watch it.

Other countries report events with a global impact differently than the US does. Because it impacts us differently and we often have different interests. Canada has weathered this economic crisis in a very different fashion than the US and that is often emphasized in our media.

[gatorsmom]

This is really pretty harsh considering that what Melissa very succinctly summed up is what we're hearing in Canada on the three major Canadian networks. Since the G8 happened here in Canada, obviously there's been a lot of reporting on it. I haven't a clue what they're saying on Fox News as I never watch it.

Other countries report events with a global impact differently than the US does. Because it impacts us differently and we often have different interests. Canada has weathered this economic crisis in a very different fashion than the US and that is often emphasized in our media.

I agree that Melissa did a really good job of summing up a very involved, complicated issue.

I also agree that U.S. media spins things differently than foreign media. Since I can read French, occasionally I go on the French version of Yahoo to see what they are saying about us. I think it's important and terribly interesting to see what their opinions are about world topics. They often have a different way of seeing things.

[BabyMine]

I agree that Melissa did a really good job of summing up a very involved, complicated issue.

I also agree that U.S. media spins things differently than foreign media. Since I can read French, occasionally I go on the French version of Yahoo to see what they are saying about us. I think it's important and terribly interesting to see what their opinions are about world topics. They often have a different way of seeing things.

What do they say about us?

[gatorsmom]

What do they say about us? LOL. It depends on the topic. They think we are all fat (compared to the percentage of obesity in their country, it's not hard to see why they think that). They hate our environmental policies. They think we overconsume in general. And since they get all our old 80's and 90's TV shows they think all the women in this country sleep around and look like Pamela Anderson. :rotflmao:

[Momit]

It's kind of hard to generalize what people in other countries think about the US but I can say what I've heard in the year we've been living in Germany.

Many people here like Obama more than Bush, largely because of their positions on environmental and military issues.

One person made an interesting observation when he said America is the most wasteful culture he's ever seen. He was talking specifically about Starbucks-type paper coffee cups but the same thought applies to gas, plastic bags etc.

The people here are not what I would call anti-American at all, in fact many are very pro-American, but they do seem to be able to see our faults as well as our strengths.

[bubbaray]

You sound like a Fox News sound bite... .


That is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read on this board.

I believe that what I posted in this thread and in the prior one from a few days back accurately reflects what is being said in the international media about this G8 conference.

Obviously, all of the G8 leaders get advice and have an army of advisers. However, each leader also brings a different skill set *of their own* to the table as well. You can say what you want about Obama's plan, but when it comes to Harper's unique credentials on things relating to economics, he definitely *does* have skills that Obama himself doesn't have. The deficit reduction plan (along with his opposition to a bank tax) were things near and dear to Harper's personal agenda.

Whether Harper (deficit reduction) or Obama (stimulus spending) had the "right" approach, only the history books will tell.