Only friends with other parents?

[MontrealMum]

I went out to lunch today with a (childless) friend today and all the way home felt very...unfulfilled, to the point of kinda upset. Even though lunch itself was very yummy at a newly discovered all-you-can eat sushi place :) I'm not sure if this belongs here or not, but I'm just feeling a little...sad? Am I the only one that prefers to be friends with other people that also have kids?

I've thought about it all evening and if I count, I have all of TWO friends - in town - that don't have children. I have plenty more that I stay in contact with, but in terms of actual face time and outings, I've got two. And the one I had lunch with today, in particular, is making me increasingly uncomfortable. (The other one is much older and has chosen not to have kids). Today there were lots of awkward pauses, and me smiling and nodding (through clenched teeth) at the parenting advice.

She's a professional contact in addition to a friend, and I'm trying to give her a bit of leeway since I *know* I've changed since having DS. Mind you, while I was the kind of person that may have given "the eye" at raucous kids in public mentioned in other thread, I NEVER offered parenting advice as a non-parent.

Is this what happens? All your non-parent friends just slip away eventually? I should add that I don't expect to talk about DS all the time (or really much at all - I'd rather NOT actually) when I'm with girlfriends - moms or not - and this particular friend has always been a bit self-centered though I do like her a lot, but I'm really noticing my circle of friends changing lately. I'm in the making friends stage with a mom from DS' daycare and we slipped out for lunch together a few weeks back and barely talked about the boys, but there just seemed to be that "understanding" with her. Both when we're trying to schedule stuff, and just in general. It all felt very easy, while with my friend today it was a lot of work. And I'm wondering if I'm the only one.

[Melaine]

My guess is that it's awkward with this friend, not because you have kids and she doesn't, but because of her personality. I do think it's possible to be friends with people who don't have kids yet or at all...I do find it difficult because our schedules are so different. The fact that she spent a lot of time giving you advice about your kids says that she is, well, self-absorbed and possibly out of touch. That kind of person is difficult to be friends with.
I will say that now that I have kids I have less energy to deal with silly immature nonsense from adults. So, a friend that I might have tolerated just fine in the past, really isn't going to make it. I have less time and energy to put into friendships, and so my friendships need to be relatively mature, stable and balanced, ykwim?
I'm sorry you are feeling sad though....I can definitely relate to being sad about friendships (or lost friendships) and losing connections with old friends.:hug:

[happymomma]

My guess is that it's awkward with this friend, not because you have kids and she doesn't, but because of her personality. I do think it's possible to be friends with people who don't have kids yet or at all...I do find it difficult because our schedules are so different. The fact that she spent a lot of time giving you advice about your kids says that she is, well, self-absorbed and possibly out of touch. That kind of person is difficult to be friends with.
I will say that now that I have kids I have less energy to deal with silly immature nonsense from adults. So, a friend that I might have tolerated just fine in the past, really isn't going to make it. I have less time and energy to put into friendships, and so my friendships need to be relatively mature, stable and balanced, ykwim?
I'm sorry you are feeling sad though....I can definitely relate to being sad about friendships (or lost friendships) and losing connections with old friends.:hug:

:yeahthat: I totally agree with the previous post. It really grates me when non parents give parenting advice to me.

[bubbaray]

I get parenting advice from childless (most by choice) coworkers all.the.time. Obviously, as they are coworkers and NOT friends, I can't just tell them to shove it. Well, maybe I could, but that would be a career limiting move.

I just walk away.

I did tell one coworker that she was welcome to take *my* two kids to DL or WDW without a stroller and see how long she lasted. (she had come back from a trip to WDW and was appalled at how many older kids were in strollers).

I have found that my pool of friends has really shrunk since I had DD#1. If only my post-partum waistline had shrunk that fast, LOL.

[MamaMolly]

I think that there is a difference between not having kids and not being a kid kind of person. Before we had kids I'd say that most of our friends were parents and we had a lot in common to talk about other than kids. And as a teacher I was occasionally asked advice :). But we also had work related friends who really were anti-kid and I found I didn't have much in common with them as people.

I think parenting changes you in a deep way that is very hard to put into terms. People say that having a child changes everything, but until you experience it you really don't know what 'everything' means. Some friendships can stand one person having such a deep change, some can't.

[glbb35]

I think things do change when you have kids. Your priorities are not your own anymore and like a previous poster said you just don't deal with the immature adult crap well anymore. One of my bf does not have children and while I wish we could be closer there is a noticeable change in our relationship. Because I was hardly able to just drop things once I had kids and run up to meet her or get together with an open schedule she just stopped wanting to get together. I email her dh more often than I do her and she has pretty much stopped emails and even birthday cards I think as a way of saying to me, I have other friends I like more now. IT does make me sad and when I see pictures of her on facebook I do sometimes feel bad. But all of her close friends are childless and partying late at night (she is in her 40's) and flying off to some exotic local at a moments notice is something I just can't do and actually don't want to do. I have to admit I would like to talk on the phone with her but cringe at the thought of listening to the rabble of silly teenage stuff she talks about and I am sure me talking about being thrown up on, up all night and the kids yapping in the background is no picnic for her either. Things just change and that is ok.

I even feel I have grown somewhat away from another friend who has one child as we have 4 and two of them are just a year old and her one, is almost 8. There is a difference. She is into baseball games an 3rd grade and is able to drop things and take off with friends as her family watch ds all the time. I can't always do that and she has forgotten that little ones take a lot more work. But I faith that as the kids grow older and more stabilized that we will come back together and be close again. I think it is all just a cycle.

As for my single friend, I too think there will come a day when the phone will ring and we will have a chance to catch up and start a new. You can only party and run around like a teenager for a while. If the base of the friendship is strong give it time and see where it goes in the future.

B

DS 03, 06 and twins 09

[hellokitty]

MM- I understand your situation. I have had a similar issue with my friends w/o kids. Most of them are very immersed in their careers, basically single, highly educated women, not married, and no kids. I now feel like I'm the polar opposite. I've had some issues in that I think some of my single friends are jealous of me. They desperately want to get married, BUT b/c these particular friends DO tend to be self absorbed to begin with, they have had trouble finding boyfriends and staying in stable relationships in general. I also get really put off when these single friends act like they know what it is like to be a parent and try to dish out the parenting advice. It's funny, b/c both of my sils were like this, now one is a mom and she finally kind of, "gets it." The other is pregnant and btwn the two of them has been worse about acting like she knows what it's like to be a parent. I am really waiting for her to, "get it."

I have found that with my friends who were single, the few that went on to get married and have children, do eventually, "come back," b/c they realize now what it is like. I'm one of the first of my friends to have gotten married and have kids, so I've kind of been through this numerous times with my friendships.

[sste]

I am in the extreme minority on this but I LOVE my friends without kids. I have actually been upset when some had babies recently! They are slated for my annual weekend girls trip, which is a big deal to me . . . so many of my mom friends won't leave their kids for a day or two or don't have the extra money for things like that. They are also awesome for going out late occasionally and NOT talking constantly about kids/flus/vomit/potty training. And spa stuff - - most people with DC have allocated their discretionary income entirely to duplos and disney. If you ever need a spa friend for the day, start with your childless single friends! Also, I enjoy pretending every once in a while that I am back in my pre-DS life. I don't even mind parenting advice - - though none of them have been overbearing about it and one is a child psychiatric nurse who I solicit advice from.

Anyway, the way I see it is that some friends are for the wine bar, some are for the play date, and its nice to have both. But, MontrealMom, I am wondering if this person is not a true friend anymore and that is the source of the sadness . . .

[♥ms.pacman♥]

My guess is that it's awkward with this friend, not because you have kids and she doesn't, but because of her personality. I do think it's possible to be friends with people who don't have kids yet or at all...I do find it difficult because our schedules are so different. The fact that she spent a lot of time giving you advice about your kids says that she is, well, self-absorbed and possibly out of touch. That kind of person is difficult to be friends with.

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: totally agree with this. i think it has more to do with your friend's personality than anything else.

we have a group of friends that are all childless/childfree and we love hanging out with them..we get to chat about things other than baby stuff, someone always wants to hold DS (so DH & I get a break! :)), makes me feel more connected to the outside world, etc. the only tough thing, as Melaine mentioned is the possible schedule conflict...we can't attend all types of stuff (going out to the movies, etc) since we have no one to watch DS...and since DS goes to bed around 9, we can't stay out as late, esp on weekdays. however, it's also hard to schedule stuff with people who have kids, bc then u have to all coordinate around babies' naps/feedings and all that. i'm part of a mommy group on meetup and it's hard to regularly see lots of ppl bc it's just difficult to coordinate different schedules, and plus stuff always comes up when you have a baby.


I am in the extreme minority on this but I LOVE my friends without kids. I have actually been upset when some had babies recently! They are slated for my annual weekend girls trip, which is a big deal to me . . . so many of my mom friends won't leave their kids for a day or two or don't have the extra money for things like that. They are also awesome for going out late occasionally and NOT talking constantly about kids/flus/vomit/potty training. And spa stuff - - most people with DC have allocated their discretionary income entirely to duplos and disney. If you ever need a spa friend for the day, start with your childless single friends! Also, I enjoy pretending every once in a while that I am back in my pre-DS life. I don't even mind parenting advice - - though none of them have been overbearing about it and one is a child psychiatric nurse who I solicit advice from.

Anyway, the way I see it is that some friends are for the wine bar, some are for the play date, and its nice to have both. But, MontrealMom, I am wondering if this person is not a true friend anymore and that is the source of the sadness . . .

so true, i agree. for me i have to have both. i need friends who can identify with parenting struggles but i also need friends who i can chat about Grey's Anatomy or Twilight or whatever's going on in the world. and yeah, occasionally i like spending $$ on non-baby things like massages and designer bags. most friends in mommy groups i am in won't even spend more than $20 on an outfit for themselves, so if i need a friend to go shopping with, i ask my friends without kids.

[MontrealMum]

Thanks guys :)

I think you're right, it's mostly this particular friend's personality. That she's always been pretty self-absorbed, but now that I have DS I just don't have time to deal with that kind of stuff anymore. My other childfree friends can be a bit difficult to schedule with, but once we're out, I don't have this same issue.

I also like having "wine bar" friends, but it seems that when I go out with this woman she only wants to talk about herself...and the topic oddly often strays to her neighbor's kid. Whom I've never met. And then she jumps from there to the parenting advice. IDK, maybe she thinks she *has* to talk kids with me, though honestly I spend most of my time trying to steer her away from that sort of stuff. I've got lots of other things going on ;)

So, yeah, I'm just mostly kinda sad because I think we're just going to have to grow further apart, but I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone. I love this place!

[StantonHyde]

The next time she starts in with parenting advice or kid talk, just steer her away by saying, "You know, I have looked forward to this lunch because I know I can talk about (politics, literature, professional insider info). I talk about my kids all the time, I really would love it if we could just talk about all the other stuff today!"

[twowhat?]

so true, i agree. for me i have to have both. i need friends who can identify with parenting struggles but i also need friends who i can chat about Grey's Anatomy or Twilight or whatever's going on in the world. and yeah, occasionally i like spending $$ on non-baby things like massages and designer bags. most friends in mommy groups i am in won't even spend more than $20 on an outfit for themselves, so if i need a friend to go shopping with, i ask my friends without kids.

This would be my ideal. Unfortunately, I don't even have time to watch a full show on TV. I have nothing to talk about outside of kids, because I have no time for anything else. It's pathetic. Yes, I'm sad about it and yes, I hope it changes when the kids are older. I totally feel isolated from the world!!

[gatorsmom]

deleted so as not to offend.

[twowhat?]

I totally get what you're saying. I consider myself VERY lucky that I have a lovely set of wonderful friends with 1 kid who do their best to not do what you describe. Maybe it's because of all the b*tching I did for the first 8 months of our girls' lives. How you people with MORE than two do it, I have no idea:)

[Melaine]

I get what you're saying, gatorsmom. My friends IRL are pretty used to my haughty, "if you don't have twins, you have no opinion" mentality (only kidding a little). I'm sure it's the same for you.

[HIU8]

BTDT. I had a really good male friend who I was friends with for YEARS. When I got married he would call and ask me to meet him out for dinner without DH (like 2-3 times a week). When I had kids he would say lets meet somewhere--you can just get a sitter. He would call 30 minutes before he wanted to meet. Um, can't do that any longer. He didn't get why I could not drop what I was doing and meet him out. First, "NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND", second, "MY KIDS COME FIRST"--don't call me the evening that you want to meet and expect me to drop everything to meet you out.

Needless to say, we don't speak any longer.