Child taken by flight attendants after Mom slaps child

[HonoluluMom]

I didn't see a thread on this. I just read this story and the mother's actions/attitude really disgusts me! What really gets me is that the way I read this article, this mother slaps her child on a regular basis:

'The mother also told Baldwin the baby was tired and crying, and "when she's screaming and she can't hear me say no, that's the only way I can get her to stop."'


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38739441/ns/travel-news/

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

The comments of people defending the mother, "why anyone would questions her disciplining" (aka abusing) her BABY, make me want to slap an adult. Kudos to the FA for doing the right thing!

[codex57]

Yep, there we have it.

1. Child ripped from parent's arms by an overzealous nut job FA.
2. Plane diverted, due to Janet Peepants, massively inconveniencing a large number of people.
3. Police intervene, no doubt due to overzealous nut job FA.
4. Police interrogate, err, "interview" the parents (likely withholding access to child during the interview).
5. Police have doctor examine child (likely not with the parents' consent).
6. Police do not charge parents with anything (because no crime was committed).

And on top of all that nonsense, the police nut jobs support their trampling of parents' rights by issuing a statement saying that the FA did the right thing when breaking the law.

I guess that's what they mean by "If you see something, say something". :rolleyes: :td:

On top of it all, the police are probably sitting there all full of themselves thinking that the parents should start licking their boots because they've been "let go"... :rolleyes: x 1,000,000

From flyertalk. This guy is 100% serious.

[arivecchi]

She slapped her 13 MONTH old child? :angry-smiley-005:

[JBaxter]

And the child had a previous black eye.. but WHO slaps a 13 month old in the FACE? Im team flight attendant on this one.

[infomama]

That guy from flyer talk is a grade A jackass.

[luckytwenty]

Who slaps a baby and thinks that's "normal"???? How is that not abuse?? What an idiotic mother, and what idiotic people to defend her.

I have never understood how hitting a child could ever be considered a good thing.

[codex57]

I'm fine with corporal punishment. It may or may not be the "best" method to change a child's behavior, but I don't have a problem with corporal punishment generally. However, a child must be mature enough to understand why you're hitting them. As in, understand the concept of "no."

13 months is iffy. DD may be old enough to understand some stuff, but she's more advanced than DS. I don't think DS understood much at 13 months. In any case, hitting to stop crying just isn't the way to go about it. That'll just make em cry more. And if you hit, you certainly don't go hitting the head. Corporal punishment is negative reinforcement. The location doesn't matter that much. So, you smack on the bottom or the hand or something. Not the face. There's just no reason, even for those ok with corporal punishment, to go smacking a kid in the face. Particularly a kid who's too young to even get the point of corporal punishment.

[Mommy_Again]

I'm flying with my almost 11-month old tomorrow. Under no circumstances could I fathom her doing something that I would deem so intentional that I would slap her (can't really imagine ever slapping her for any reason, but we haven't gotten to the teenage years yet, lol). A 13 month old is a BABY. Not even close to being a toddler with a tantrum. Not that that would justify it, but at least an older child can be expected to control behavior, know right from wrong, etc. A baby of 13 months, screaming and kicking on a plane? that's just unhappy baby behavior. How in the world could someone SLAP a precious thing that small? So sad.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

If the dog story WAS true, why the eff was a dog able to BITE her BABIES FACE??????????? Geez dumba$$, if you are making up a story to cover your abuse, don't make it one that reinforces what a craptastic mother you are.

[codex57]

If the dog story WAS true, why the eff was a dog able to BITE her BABIES FACE??????????? Geez dumba$$, if you are making up a story to cover your abuse, don't make it one that reinforces what a craptastic mother you are.

I also question the dog story. If a dog bit, wouldn't that leave a scratch. Not a black eye? "Popping" your kid, as the dad says the mom does all the time, seems much more likely to leave a black eye than a dog bite. Shoot, the term "popping" indicates a punch. Like what normally leaves a black eye. A slap isn't normally referred to as "popping" someone. It's just called a slap. Which also isn't likely to cause a black eye on an infant.

[citymama]

You don't slap a 13 month old child. I don't care what your views on corporal punishment are. That's just wrong.

I think the FA did the right thing, and it sounds like the father pretty much agreed. I'm always nervous about over zealous bystanders but in this case, the mom sounds like she had lost control and perspective.

I once took a flight where a young mom (like 23?) was flying alone with 2 kids, one about 4 and the other under 1. The 4 yr old literally had to protect the 10 month old from the mom's wrath. They were in the last row, we were right in front of them, and I heard slaps more than once followed by the baby bawling. She was verbally super abusive to the boy, talking to him like a woman who had caught her husband cheating - dripping with sarcasm and rage. I found her revolting. My DH and I offered to play with the kids, which to our surprise, she accepted. Well, flash forward we get to our destination. This woman's husband is supposed to be meeting her there and he doesn't show up. It's about 10 pm and this is clearly not their home town. She has no cell phone. I lend her mine. She is literally sobbing on the phone, has no idea where her kids are (again, the 4 yr old is playing parent to the baby and dragging her to keep up with mom). Long story short, the young woman was clearly being jerked around by her husband, who may or may not have been cheating on her (she seemed overwrought with emotion on the phone). It was like all the rage she felt for her life and her man was being taken out on these poor little kids.

I don't know why I told that story, but hearing about this incident reminded me of that. I just wanted to do something to protect those poor kids from their parents.

[fivi2]

I also question the dog story. If a dog bit, wouldn't that leave a scratch. Not a black eye? "Popping" your kid, as the dad says the mom does all the time, seems much more likely to leave a black eye than a dog bite. Shoot, the term "popping" indicates a punch. Like what normally leaves a black eye. A slap isn't normally referred to as "popping" someone. It's just called a slap. Which also isn't likely to cause a black eye on an infant.

I think it is very possible to get a black eye from a dog with a large head either biting/snapping or just turning its head quickly. My dog has a big head/thick skull (she would never bite!) and I have been certain that I would get a black eye from her turning her head too quickly while I was leaning over her. I haven't, but I can see it.

Lots of moms I know call giving the child a light smack "popping" them. perhaps it is regional.

To be clear - I AM NOT defending this woman. She sounds like a total disaster. I do not use corporal punishment and would never smack my child. I would also be getting rid of a dog that had bitten my child's eye. Just responding to the comments quoted!

[codex57]

I think it is very possible to get a black eye from a dog with a large head either biting/snapping or just turning its head quickly. My dog has a big head/thick skull (she would never bite!) and I have been certain that I would get a black eye from her turning her head too quickly while I was leaning over her. I haven't, but I can see it.

Lots of moms I know call giving the child a light smack "popping" them. perhaps it is regional.

To be clear - I AM NOT defending this woman. She sounds like a total disaster. I do not use corporal punishment and would never smack my child. I would also be getting rid of a dog that had bitten my child's eye. Just responding to the comments quoted!


No no, this is good. I don't think you're defending her. Just clearing things up. I'm from CA, so apparently we don't have a lot of these regional sayings. If they're there, I prolly wouldn't know about them so it's good to be told about them if they're there.

I suppose anything is possible, but it just doesn't seem likely to me. Course, I haven't seen a photo so we don't know what this "black eye" looks like. That said, I was thinking about it and the reason I don't believe the "bite" story is why would you call it a bite? Maybe it's another regional saying thing? But, wouldn't you call bumping heads something like, well, "bumped heads with the dog" or something like that? Why "bite"? Plus, how hard do you need to smack to get a black eye? Kids I've seen who've taken hits to the face don't get a black eye unless it's a very strong, sharp impact. A big dog can do it, but you're talking a fairly big surface. Impacting against an adult's face, that's big surface to big surface. Totally plausible. But an infant has a relatively small head. A big dog has such a large surface area, it's hard for it to hit that spot in order to get a black eye. More likely to smack the whole cheek, forehead, etc. A smaller dog has the smaller surface area to increase the chance, but it also packs less punch. Possible of course, but it's getting more and more difficult to do.

[kijip]

What I find so awful is that smacking a baby in the face in plain view of witnesses is not a crime. This underscores WHY so many kids are abused and not helped. We make the burden of proof so high that plenty of kids get left with horrible rotten abusive parents. At a minimum, she needs some parenting and anger management classes.

[wellyes]

What I find so awful is that smacking a baby in the face in plain view of witnesses is not a crime. This underscores WHY so many kids are abused and not helped. We make the burden of proof so high that plenty of kids get left with horrible rotten abusive parents. At a minimum, she needs some parenting and anger management classes.Right. An open-handed slap is an assault, right? As in, if one person does it to another it is called assault and charges can be pressed. But an adult doing it to her INFANT is not assault. Crazy world.

I'm not saying that all physical punishment is / should be illegal. I'm anti-spanking but I do not think it is by definition abuse (unless it is over the line - violent - an expression of anger instead of a discipline technique). But a slap is just never OK. Striking an infant is never OK.

[kijip]

Nearly every parent I know who has flown with a toddler (including me) has been the parent doing anything and everything to soothe and calm a fussy child. I have helped a number of times when I have seen someone alone and in need of a hand (though no hitting going down) and it underscores that parents need support (self, community, family, government in some cases) to be effective, some more than others. Hitting a child is terrible but it is a behavior that can be changed sometimes if dealt with well.

[TwinFoxes]

And the child had a previous black eye.. but WHO slaps a 13 month old in the FACE? Im team flight attendant on this one.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

[tiapam]

What I find so awful is that smacking a baby in the face in plain view of witnesses is not a crime. This underscores WHY so many kids are abused and not helped. We make the burden of proof so high that plenty of kids get left with horrible rotten abusive parents. At a minimum, she needs some parenting and anger management classes.

I think the saddest part of this story is that the mother seems to have no idea what is typical behavior for a child that age. Or how to deal with it. :(

[liamsmom]

I think the saddest part of this story is that the mother seems to have no idea what is typical behavior for a child that age. Or how to deal with it.

:yeahthat: I'll admit when I first read about this story I thought the flight attendant was probably over-zealous. But slapping a 13-month old across the face is just plain wrong and awful. I don't necessarily believe the story about the dog and the black-eye, but last month my little guy was sporting several bruises all over his face due to falls, whacking himself in the face with his own toys, etc. Kids, even babies, do get lots of bruises so anything is possible. I hope the parents get the assistance they need.

[BabyBearsMom]

I'm also team Flight Attendant on this. I don't think that spanking necessarily equals child abuse though it definitely is not my parenting style.

My mom's mother was abusive to her and it really impacted her. I remember once, when I was little (maybe 5?), I disobeyed my mother and snuck across a busy street. When my mom found out she decided she had to spank (she specifically told me no, and my disobendience was dangerous). My poor mom, who vowed never to strike her children, spanked me but was crying the whole time to the point where I said "Don't cry mommy, it doesn't hurt that much." In the end, I learned my lesson, but not from the spanking. I felt so bad that I made my mom cry, that I never did it again.

[sste]

ITA that slapping a baby in the face crosses the line into abuse. Clearly crosses it.

In addition, I think other passengers should have an interest in NOT being exposed to that. I would be beside myself if I witnessed that and if the fasten seat belt sign was not on I would 50-50 end up jumping into the fray, praying I didn't make it worse, and watching DH out of the corner of his eye pretend he had never met me before. I find that type of thing tremendously upsetting. For an imperfect comparison, it is not illegal for people to have sex but it is illegal for them to have it in front of a bunch of passengers on a public flight. IMO slapping a baby is a much worse public indecency . . .

[kijip]

I think the saddest part of this story is that the mother seems to have no idea what is typical behavior for a child that age. Or how to deal with it. :(

That is where I have seen parent support groups and classes help the most- for mothers and fathers at all income levels, ages etc. I used to facilitate parent groups and as the babies got older there would be a lot of questions "is this normal?" Just knowing that yes, 1 year olds do certain things, helps stave off the frustration and anger.

Also it is really common for women to either repeat the child abuse they experienced or to hit their children when they themselves are being hit by their husband or partner. It's a very complex problem.