UPDATE in #17-WWYD - bad camp experience (long)

[PunkyBoo]

Punkin has been looking forward to this week all summer because we signed him up for "Shark Camp". It's run by the local marine institute and sounded like a great educational experience for him. Punkin LOVES sharks and loves learning about all animals, nature and science. Camp is also 9-3 - his first "all day" experience so I also saw it as a trial to 1st Grade which he starts in 3 weeks (his kindy was only 3.5 hrs. in the AM).

Monday we show up and everyone was wearing beach clothes- except Punkin. Turns out they go to the beach (right behind the building) every afternoon after lunch, but it didn't say that in the camp description and nothing was sent out before camp started. So I called DH who was about to leave for work and asked him to please bring us Punkin's trunks, a towel, and sunscreen. It took half-hour so I waited out front to allow Punkin time to get acclimated to camp without me disrupting. When we got there, all the kids were just hanging around, even the teenage counselors... some rough-housing, nothing structured going on. When I went back in at 9:30 with his beach gear, everything was still chaotic, kids just doing whatever (there's no playground or play equipment or balls or books.... just kids hanging around.) Punkin was standing in the middle of the room by himself, head hanging low. He didn't know anybody and apparently most of the kids had been attending the camp all summer (it's a series of ocean-themed weeks - we didn't know that) so they all had their friends. I was very surprised there weren't any activities started yet and there wasn't anything to DO. I tried to convince him to just go talk to some other boys his age, but he's pretty shy at first and I think it's asking a LOT for a 6 year old to go up to strangers (who obviously know each other) and include himself in their conversation. I HAD to go, so I gave him a kiss and on my way out asked a counselor to please go try to help him get socially acclimated. She said she would and I left (feeling sick for how sad he seemed.)

When I picked him up, I asked if the day got better in terms of making friends after I left. He said, not really, "I just got used to it." Pretty much nobody talked to him all day. He made the best of it and had an ok time anyway. I have no idea if the counselor went over to him like I'd asked her to or not. He said that most fo the boys were doing Pokemon cards a lot, which he's had no exposure to. I'm shocked that they allow the kids (a) to bring in Pokemon cards from home and (b) that there is that much unstructured time for them to play with them (or whatever they do - I also don't really know what the cards are for other than collecting.)

Tuesday was also completely unstructured and chaotic at drop-off. He was excited though because they were doing some shark dissection (counselors handling the cutting part). I encouraged him to just go up to a boy in his group and say "hi! What are you guys doing?" so he could try to join in or at least not feel left out. But he didn't/ couldn't. When I picked him up yesterday, he said nobody talked to him again. And that kids were staring at him when he accidently dropped his lunch on the ground (and had to dust off his sandwich to eat anyway...)

Today I was just dreading at drop off. Still chaotic. Feeling guilty for leaving him in an environment that doesn't seem to even acknowledge him. The only thing shark-related they did today was string beads and a shark tooth onto a necklace. Nobody talked to him. Lots of Pokemon. He's clearly bothered by the situation but is being "brave" for me and putting up with it because he really wanted to do the shark stuff. Tomorrow they're supposed to take a field trip to the aquarium and Friday they're supposed to go out on a boat and do some science stuff on the boat.

I feel awful for him. I'm angry that we spend $180 for this camp when I probably could have taught him more about sharks by taking him to the library and the aquarium myself. I can take him to the beach myself for free, and at least then he'd have someone to talk to. I told DH that I want to call and ask for a refund, and he said "if that's what you think is best, but there's only 2 days left..." We are pretty short on money these days and I feel like I'm sending him to daycare where nobody cares about him. I'm a SAHM, I don't NEED to send him anywhere, we did it because it sounded great on the info we had.

I'm heartsick over this. When I was little, I was also very shy and socially awkward so this is just killing me that he's going through this. I'm so proud of him that he's not taking it personally, not crying, not telling me he doesn't want to go. He expressed to me that he's disappointed that there isn't more about sharks and that the kids don't want to be his friends and the counselors are "too busy" (his words) to care.

WWYD - call and complain? Ask for a refund?? Subject your kid to 2 more days of virtual neglect and just write it off as lesson learned?? help!
Thanks for hanging in with me this long ;)

ETA: I'm just going off what he tells me, I don't have a daily schedule or any communication with the counselors to know any differently. Also, FWIW, I['m not at all concerned about his physicall safety there. Looks like they have all of that under control.

[chlobo]

That sounds very disappointing. My DD is also very shy. She almost wouldn't let me leave last week on the first day of camp, even though one of her best friends was there so I certainly understand the social anxiety about it.

If you are unhappy about the situation I would definitely call and speak to someone. It sounds like they aren't doing a very good job at the camp.

[TwinFoxes]

Does he want to go back? It might seem worse to you than to him.

I think a refund is a long shot. It doesn't seem like they're doing anything wrong really. But it doesn't hurt to ask. It sucks DS isn't having fun. :(

[Ceepa]

I've found that a lot of the weeklong camps with themes are just ways to break up the summer and make each week seem more interesting than what it is for a lot of families - childcare. Beach week! Olympics week! Dinosaur week!

That sucks for families like yours who paid for a true experience for your child. Did the literature indicate more of an educational structure? If so, I would call and say that your are disappointed with how casual and unstructured the week has been and it's not what you signed up for.

I'd have DS finish out the week.

[JustMe]

I think I would call and talk to the director. I would ask for assistance in helping ds connect with other kids especially in the morning. I wouldn't complain about the lack of structure/that its not educational enough (but that's just me) b/c that probably won't change quickly enough to help ds out anyway. My dd is very shy and her first week and camp last year, she had a similar experience socially. I tried to talking to the counselors and it didnt help. I had the sense that they just didnt have the skills to do what I was asking of them, so I called the director and she was very understanding. She said she would provide some extra training to the counselor on how to facilitate dd's integration into the camp (not exactly what she said, but that was the point). She did and it helped a lot. Good luck.

[egoldber]

I am sorry. I feel your pain on this. :(

My older DD is in a camp like this this week. I thought the weeks were all separate sessions, but apparently most of the kids have been together all summer and they are continuing to build on activities that have been done over the summer so she feels very left out. If I had realized this I would NOT ave enrolled her in this camp. I am also NOT impressed with the quality of the camp staff.

I needed her to go M-W, but today we gave her the option of staying home with DH. (He was out of town until last night.) She jumped at the chance. :( Typically she is a very enthusiastic joiner and participant in almost any activity, so this is pretty significant. I don't know what to do about tomorrow, because he has meetings downtown. Ugh.

[cilantromapuche]

We had an experience like that when DS was just 6. I spoke to one of the grown ups and they mentioned that he played with so and so, etc. He gave us all the low points and while DS is shy and he doesn't like change, he was milking it. The grown ups made a point to welcome him when I dropped him off and he did enjoy it.

[Pennylane]

I would ask him if he wants to go back. He sounds miserable to me and I can't imagine continuing to take him, especially since you don't have to. I would also email the director, explaining your disappointment and inquire about a refund or partial refund.

Ann

[bubbaray]

We had an experience like that when DS was just 6. I spoke to one of the grown ups and they mentioned that he played with so and so, etc. He gave us all the low points and while DS is shy and he doesn't like change, he was milking it. The grown ups made a point to welcome him when I dropped him off and he did enjoy it.


Yeah, this is what we've had to deal with. DD#1 is, by staff reports, joining in, making friends, having a blast. Some days she comes home saying she had a great day, others not so much.

[rlu]

Since it's Thursday 10amPST, OP has already made her choice for the day, but if I were in this situation I would still send him since it sounds like Thurs and Fri are the real activity days.

I would talk to the director about how the camp was represented versus what actually occurred. I doubt there will be a refund, after all, he did stay the entire time thus far (and again it sounds like Thurs and Fri are the cool activity days so I wouldn't pull him at this point).

I suspect this is similar to the camps our Y runs - each week has a different theme and field trip, but I suspect many people sign up for the entire summer (although certain weeks sold out quickly). We chose not to as the two weeks we thought DS would like best were things we could do on our own (all three of us going at a cost less than the week long camp). PP comments cement my concern DS would feel like an outsider, but I think he's pretty personable so might be ok if we send him to their "lego" camp next year (I think that was 7 and up).

[logan's mom]

I would definitely call and speak with the Director. I used to work for a science center that did summer camp all summer. Our camps were very structured and educational but we almost always refunded money of parents who were not happy/children who were too shy and not enjoying camp/those who didn't understand the structure....pretty much any compliant got their $ back. May not be the case with this camp but worth a shot. I would make it clear that you thought there were going to be more structured activities and that you were interested in an educational experience for your child. Hope it works out!

Here's a link to some shark activities: http://na.oceana.org/en/blog/2010/08/five-fun-things-to-do-this-shark-week

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

I suspect this is similar to the camps our Y runs - each week has a different theme and field trip, but I suspect many people sign up for the entire summer (although certain weeks sold out quickly). We chose not to as the two weeks we thought DS would like best were things we could do on our own (all three of us going at a cost less than the week long camp). PP comments cement my concern DS would feel like an outsider, but I think he's pretty personable so might be ok if we send him to their "lego" camp next year (I think that was 7 and up).

Since we're in the same area, my son probably went to the Y camps you are talking about. Lego Robotics was definitely his favorite this year. :D He's very shy, so he had a tough time on the weeks when he didn't know anyone. And yes, we did sign up for almost the entire summer (7/10 weeks), but for different camps.

We do use summer camps as "daycare". I wouldn't consider that a negative, necessarily. I still expect them to have structure and activities.

[bubbaray]

I think camp experiences can range widely. This is our first year of camps as parents, but both DH and I did lots of daycamps and overnight camps as kids.

DD#1 loved loved LOVED her Francophone camp. She went for 3 weeks straight, then a week at a Y camp, then a 4th week at Francophone camp and now 2 weeks at a Y camp. At first, she d/n know many of the kids at the Francophone camp, but there were a couple she knew (1 girl from her K class too). I sent out an email to the Kindy parents telling them how much she was enjoying Francophone camp (she goes to French Immersion school, so parents are often looking for French experiences for their kids).

Well, it turns out that some of the other kids from her school didn't enjoy Francophone camp as much. It sounds like some didn't like it because 3 days a week, there were 2 hours of French lessons (ie., school). It was also quite structured. DD#1 THRIVES in this setting, but obviously not all kids do. One mom pulled her DD after 1 day (!) because she thought it was too structured and she just wanted her child to play all summer. That is not what my kid likes, but I'm sure that particular mom thought my rave review of the camp was highly inaccurate.

The Y daycamps in our area have different themes each week. They have 3 outings/field trips per week. 2 of those are the same every week, 1 is different every week (last week it was a trip to a waterslide park, this week it is the zoo, etc.). There are also MANY Y camp locations throughout are area. I put DD#1 in the same camp location for the 3 weeks she is at the Y camps. Most parents, however, put their children in different Y camp locations each week. So, the kids move around a lot even if their whole summer is at the Y, KWIM? I wish there was a bit more continuity in attendees, but it seems to have been OK. They keep the kids busy, the staff seem VERY responsible and mature. DD#1 LOVES the outings and had a lot of fun at the Y camps.

We hope to return to the Francophone and Y camps in years to come. But, if I'd based my decision on the first week, I might have reached a different decision. It was a bit of an adjustment for DD#1.

[egoldber]

I agree that camps can vary widely. My older DD has done MANY camps over the years: sports, outdoors, crafts and academic. She's been going to at least 3-4 camps a summer since she was 5. This is our second summer of full day, all day camps as school aged child care.

In all that time she has had camps she loved, some that were only OK, and some she asked not do again because it wasn't that great. But she has NEVER asked to not continue a camp that she has started. So for her to be this miserable was a big sign to us that something was wrong. I don't know what is actually wrong, but it is definitely something.

But in all those camps, this is the first time we have sent her in a "series" camp where we only did one of the series. I guess that was a lesson learned for us.

[rlu]

Since we're in the same area, my son probably went to the Y camps you are talking about. Lego Robotics was definitely his favorite this year. :D

Glad to hear it. I understand summer camp is daycare for many people - we're in the situation (good and bad) that we don't need daycare so camp was elective this year. We'll see where we are next year but I appreciate knowing what we're getting into.

[bubbaray]

In all that time she has had camps she loved, some that were only OK, and some she asked not do again because it wasn't that great. But she has NEVER asked to not continue a camp that she has started. So for her to be this miserable was a big sign to us that something was wrong. I don't know what is actually wrong, but it is definitely something.


Beth, in those circumstances, ITA. I would probably pull her. Can you take a day off tomorrow (paid or unpaid)??

Its hard to know when to teach your kid to follow through and finish something they started vs being open/receptive to their concerns, KWIM?

It sounds like your mommy radar is going off and I'm a huge fan of always listening to that.

GL!

[PunkyBoo]

Thank you all for your feedback.

After spending time with DH alone last night on the way to and from flag football practice, Punkin seemed to get more clarity on the situation. He really wanted to return to camp and do the fun activities today and tomorrow. He realized that means he has to put up with the crappy stuff in order to do the fun stuff. He "gets" that he cares more about the educational aspects than most of the other kids. So I took him today and plan to take him tomorrow and let him handle it the way he wants to. I told him at bedtime how proud I am that he is mature enough to figure this all out for himself, to be brave and deal with the bad stuff so he can get what he wants out of it. I told him that those other kids are missing out on knowing a truly special boy. I will let the directors know of my issues with the lack of structure versus how it was represented in the info after the camp is over.

In hindsight, I probably projected some of my own social anxiety onto him and so I reacted more strongly and emotionally than he did. He has become a pretty independent kid in the past couple years due to some medical issues I had and difficulties with my pregnancy with Boo, so he learned to entertain himself pretty well even when there is "nothing to do." He has a very creative imagination so I know he entertains himself by making up stories (kind of like a slightly more mature version of having imaginary friends)-- part of me is fearful that other children will see that behavior as weird or strange and decide to avoid him for it... it's a good quality to have but can be seen as weird among more outgoing/ outwardly social kids. Ultimately, he's a LOT like me and I wish I could protect him from some of the emotional hardships I encountered as a kid, but I know that he needs to go through it to grow, too.

Thanks all, for your input, it helps me realize we aren't the only ones who go through it!!

[jal]

Thank you all for your feedback.

After spending time with DH alone last night on the way to and from flag football practice, Punkin seemed to get more clarity on the situation. He really wanted to return to camp and do the fun activities today and tomorrow. He realized that means he has to put up with the crappy stuff in order to do the fun stuff. He "gets" that he cares more about the educational aspects than most of the other kids. So I took him today and plan to take him tomorrow and let him handle it the way he wants to. I told him at bedtime how proud I am that he is mature enough to figure this all out for himself, to be brave and deal with the bad stuff so he can get what he wants out of it. I told him that those other kids are missing out on knowing a truly special boy. I will let the directors know of my issues with the lack of structure versus how it was represented in the info after the camp is over.

In hindsight, I probably projected some of my own social anxiety onto him and so I reacted more strongly and emotionally than he did. He has become a pretty independent kid in the past couple years due to some medical issues I had and difficulties with my pregnancy with Boo, so he learned to entertain himself pretty well even when there is "nothing to do." He has a very creative imagination so I know he entertains himself by making up stories (kind of like a slightly more mature version of having imaginary friends)-- part of me is fearful that other children will see that behavior as weird or strange and decide to avoid him for it... it's a good quality to have but can be seen as weird among more outgoing/ outwardly social kids. Ultimately, he's a LOT like me and I wish I could protect him from some of the emotional hardships I encountered as a kid, but I know that he needs to go through it to grow, too.

Thanks all, for your input, it helps me realize we aren't the only ones who go through it!!

WOW, you do have a great son to be proud of.
I wouldn't worry about a child that is "different" from others his age. Yes, being different has its emotional hardships. But I'd rather have a son who's actions I can be pround of, than a son that "goes with the crowd"... because sometimes I don't like where "the crowd" is going.

[bubbaray]

OP, I wouldn't worry about your son making up stories. My 6yo DD#1 (going into G1) does that A LOT these days.

Also, what about a drama/acting camp for him next year?

[egoldber]

Sounds like it worked out. :)

I know what you mean about projecting your own social anxiety. I know I tend to do that. The other concern is that kids with a tendency for anxiety tend to catastrophize things, making them seem like they are worse than they really are. It can be a really hard line to walk knowing when to encourage them to move past their comfort zone to there being more going on than meets the eye.

[TwinFoxes]

Also, what about a drama/acting camp for him next year?

That sounds like a really good idea for someone with a great imagination!

OP, I'm glad DS is having an OK time. :) There are things I learned in day camp that I still remember!

[PunkyBoo]

If you may indulge a little brag...
I let Punkin take $5 from his piggy bank to the aquarium trip, and the only instructins I gave him were to ask for the total with tax so he didn't spend over what he had. He came home with a little stuffed animal shark. He told me it cost $4.36 with tax, and that it is FOR HIS BROTHER! He spent his own money during a pretty miserable week for a gift for Boo. We were floored. Even DH, a normally macho-type, had tears in his eyes. I have learned so much from Punkin this week...

Thank you again for the replies. He has done sports camps with no issues at all (but there is little to no down-time at those), so this situation surprised us. I've asked him before if he is interested in drama, but he is too shy to want to get up in front of everyone... will keep it in mind for the future though, for sure.

[bubbaray]

He came home with a little stuffed animal shark. He told me it cost $4.36 with tax, and that it is FOR HIS BROTHER! He spent his own money during a pretty miserable week for a gift for Boo.


Wow. I'm all teared up here.

That is one special boy you have there! :)

[PunkyBoo]

Wow. I'm all teared up here.

That is one special boy you have there! :)

Thank you! I guess sometimes it takes these little emotional trials to truly see your chldren shine. I'm so proud of him!:love5:

[egoldber]

Very sweet! :)

My older DD decided to go back to camp today. At pick up, I could see why she didn't like it. It was soooo poorly run and the camp counselors/teachers were just beyond terrible: apathetic, not wanting to get up out of their chairs to interact, etc. Heck I could get that for free at home. ;)

Ah well, live and learn.

[Ceepa]

I have learned so much from Punkin this week....

Your DS really stepped up. You should be proud. :applause:

[AnnieW625]

I was going to stroller strides over there for most of the summer and yeah it did not look super organized. Kind of a bummer experience but it's great that you have a kid who can roll with the punches. My DCP kid who is 8, as well as one of my bosses kids who is also 8 went to a summer science camp at Tincher and had a great time. I have also heard really good things about 49er Camp at the university too.