Protect yourselves from ignorant Mandated reporters and DCFS

[mongolianspot]

My daughter has mongolian spots on her back.

On her second day of preschool, the school called DCFS without ever talking to us. The accusation was completely baseless and case has been marked "unfounded", it's been extremely difficult emotionally to deal with this. It took couple of letters to the school board president and superintendent of school before we even got a forced apology. The principal, nurse and the teachers(s) were clueless in this case.

Mandated reporters need to take some caution. Calling DCFS should not be considered lightly. While DCFS may help some families, they have also ruined many.

We have gotten questions from couple of people about the spots but never in my wildest dreams did I think a school would call DCFS without ever talking to us since Mongolian spots are common about certain ethic groups. They had no other circumstantial evidence. They forgot that while they are mandated, conveniently forgot about "reasonable" suspicion aspect of the law.

If your child has birthmarks or bruises from accidents, we as parents need to take caution and protect ourselves and be proactive. My wife and I will not be able to look at any teachers and administrators the same way again. Emotional scars be with us for years.

[karstmama]

mongolian spots are totally normal and i'm shocked that these people act like they've never seen them!

so sorry for your hassles & the fear you had to go through.

[WatchingThemGrow]

Welcome to the boards! I have to admit that I did not know what they are, and that I would have wondered also. And I have over a decade of teaching experience. So sorry they jumped to conclusions and put you on the defensive on day 2. Not cool. I wonder if they recently had a situation involving a child that was in danger and that prompted them to call.

I wouldn't distrust all teachers from here on out. I think I would mention it to the director the next school you're in, though. Would that be something to mention on the preschool health forms?

[KrisM]

How awful for you.

My question - why does a preschool see a child's back? I'm pretty sure my kids' backs have never been exposed to a preschool teacher. That seems odd to me.

I did have to Google to see what Mongolian Spots are. I hope they've never seen them either.

[TwinFoxes]

Sadly, I've heard of this happening before. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

[TwinFoxes]

How awful for you.

My question - why does a preschool see a child's back? I'm pretty sure my kids' backs have never been exposed to a preschool teacher. That seems odd to me.



They're often on the lower back or buttocks. So a shirt riding up would expose them, or if the child isn't potty trained they'd be easily seen.

[mongolianspot]

How awful for you.

My question - why does a preschool see a child's back? I'm pretty sure my kids' backs have never been exposed to a preschool teacher. That seems odd to me.

I did have to Google to see what Mongolian Spots are. I hope they've never seen them either.

She needed to be changed from an bathroom incident. Teacher-assistant brought it up to the teacher, teacher took her to the nurse and the principal and they reported.

2nd day of school. This is parent paid preschool program.

my "Ignorant" remark is not about knowledge of the mongolian spots but their knee-jerk reaction to call DCFS and wash their hands. When I went to talk to the principal about it, he would only say he was following a mandate and didn't feel he did anything wrong. He couldn't even say "I am sorry you had to go through that." I approached him very reasonably which is why I was so shocked at the reaction.

Also the nurse saw her as well. My daughter has been seen my several nurses and doctors over her short life but none of them ever raised an issue with the spot because they knew what it was right away.

I wouldn't distrust all teachers/administrators but we will definitely not assume that all of them would exercise reasonable judgement.

Only evidence they had was what they thought was a bruise. I think most people would not immediately jump to conclusion and call DCFS. DCFS does not come over to have a cup of tea with you. They go through your house and I have to tell you what she told us after she didn't find anything. She found a smoke detector that she thought wasn't working "Just because it has batteries, it doesn't mean it's working". I tested it when I rushed home from work and it works fine.

[KrisM]

Ah, okay. That makes sense. Now, I'm not sure that my kids' backs havne't been seen :).

Even if they thought it was something to report, I can't believe there wasn't an apology after the fact. That is just wrong.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this. Will you keep her there or find another school?

[hellokitty]

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I worry about it too. We live in an area where there aren't very many asians. All 3 of my boys have mongolian spots (btw, nice username, I like it!), and they are not just on their butts, but spread up their backs too. I have always made sure it was well documented by the pediatrician that my kids have mongolian spots, out of fear that some day some idiot would call social services on us. The only time so far I've had an issue is when I was with some mom friends and DS2 got hurt. I lifted up his shirt to look at the spot that he was pointing to and one of my friends was freaking out saying, "OMG, look he has bruises all over his lower back!" She's a social worker, btw. I calmly pointed out to her that they were mongolian spots and immediately she realized her mistake and stopped freaking out. You would think that in this day in age, ppl wouldn't blink an eye at the sight/mention of mongolian spots, esp a school nurse, but I can see how it can still happen if you live in an area that is non-diverse or ignorant about mongolian spots.

I took an african american patient once (I'm an RN, but at the time I was still a nursing student) to the ER and the stupid ER doc did not know what mongolian spots were (and he was not some dinosaur doc, but a young one fresh out of school). The patient, the nurse who was my preceptor and myself were all disgusted at his ignorance. I think our disgust made him turn a few shades of red, b/c we thought he was an idiot for not knowing something basic like this, when he of all ppl should know this info. I don't blame you for not wanting to trust the school again. I think schools in general tend to over-react in cases like this and calling DCFS. I have a friend who got DCFS called on her in the district that she was a TEACHER at!!! Her son had GI issues, and basically had a really bad bathroom accident at school. The school accused her of medical neglect, and called DCFS on her. She was livid that, "one of her own" would first call DCFS, before asking her for an explanation. It was all sorted out when she had them contact her son's GI specialist, but still. She said it stung really bad to be accused of something so horrible that could have easily been avoided if they would have just COMMUNICATED with her, instead of jumping the gun and pointing fingers.

[ehf]

I'm sorry you had to deal with this. I'm sure it was emotionally wrenching and makes you distrust your daycare providers.

Just so you know, most states/districts have gotten pretty crazy about mandated reporting. As a teacher, I was required to take a "training" that said: I am personally liable for NOT reporting; I am NOT ALLOWED to investigate, including talking to parents, before reporting suspicions; and that I am not supposed to make a "best guess," but instead report any possible suspicion of any kind of physical harm without talking to the kid or parents at all.

It's a frightening training. I am glad you complained to your school; they need to hear it. I would ALSO complain to your congressman. And any other body you can get ahold of...difference is, I wouldn't complain about the judgment call, but about the air of suspicion that the "mandatory reporters" are being subjected to along with the parents.

Just so you know (and not this is my own b!tch), here are the trainings that I went through on ONE day of faculty meetings before school:

-Food and insect allergies and epipen training
-mandated reporter training
-concussion training
-IEP review (I'm part-time. Of my 70 students (60% time), 18 have IEPS
-504 review (another 10 kids)
-training on the projection system for my hearing impaired kids
-training on closed captioning to make sure my notes on the board and any audiovisual materials are hearing-impaired compatible
-differentiated instruction discussion (I've taken many classes; this was a review)
-"habits of mind" discussion
-EMI training (diversity training)

Now, the last three are sort of common sense, and much of the first 7 are too, but as of 3 years ago, we had two days to prepare classrooms, design/tweak curriculum, and discuss students before school started. Now we take all these trainings.

As a parent who has had to deal with the consequences of the crappy "mandated reporter" training, I would question it---just as much as the teachers.

Good luck!

[maestramommy]

OMG, that's terrible! I've heard of people not knowing about these spots, but was your kid the first ever in their school to have these spots?? I find that very hard to believe.

My 2nd two have/had these spots. I canNOT imagine how we'd feel if someone reported us. So sorry:hug:

You know, what I find even more reprehensible than the report, is that they didn't seem to feel bad about it all. I can't believe you had to force and apology out of them. I mean, if *I* didn't know about mongolian spots and mistakenly called DCFS, I would be beyond mortified and totally apologetic to the parents afterwards.

[mongolianspot]

It's a frightening training. I am glad you complained to your school; they need to hear it. I would ALSO complain to your congressman. And any other body you can get ahold of...difference is, I wouldn't complain about the judgment call, but about the air of suspicion that the "mandatory reporters" are being subjected to along with the parents.


@ehf - you bring up a very good point. I have been doing research and I absolutely support your view. I've read some of the school policies out there including Chicago Public System and they certainly "pressure" teachers/administrators to just report instead of exercising common sense. We had to prove our innocence. System is definitely broken.

In this case, however, the nurse and an "Asian" principal looked at the situation. As much as I want to fault the system, they have to take much of the responsibility on this one. I'm not so upset with the teacher. while I understand the pressure teachers are under ( we have several friends who are teachers ), I think in all matters, there's personal responsibility. Mistakes can happen. People shouldn't hide behind a system. "If you hurt someone, say you are sorry"

I will be attending the next school board meeting to bring up this up to minimize such situation. I don't want another parent to go through this in this district over a birthmark or mongolian spots.

I will also address the points you brought up.

(1) I want the school to change the student enrollment process so that parents are reminded to note birthmarks and such. The medical form a doctor fills out for school does not have any place to put such information. Our doctor never thought school would report us to DCFS over my daughter's mongolian spots.

(2) I want the school to send out information to all nurses and administrators in the district about mongolian spots. It still baffles me that a nurse couldn't tell the difference between a real bruise and mongolian spots.

(3) I want to tell them exactly what you said. There's lot that's wrong about the mandated process. There's lot that's wrong about a system that discourages open communication.

[mom2binsd]

I can't believe you didn't get an apology, or a better explanation as to why they reacted the way they did. If you can turn it into a learning experience for them I think that would be great.

I remember when I babysat a friends child for the first time, he was still in diapers, and when she was showing me around the apt, she specifically mentioned his Mongolian spots so that I wouldn't panic or worry or think they were bruises, and until that time I had never heard of them.

[DrSally]

That is a highly unfortunate mistake. I'm so sorry this happened to you. DD has them pretty prominently. The doctors have commented on it as "awww, isn't that cute" sort of response. Please try to not let it get to you. It reflects nothing on you as a parent, it's about them and their lack of knowledge.

ETA: I think it's a *great* idea to attend the school board meeting and bring up documenting birthmarks for the school and dissemating info on mongolian spots. Excellent idea.

[citymama]

I am sorry you and your family had to go through this. How awful.

Welcome to the boards!

[ellies mom]

(1) I want the school to change the student enrollment process so that parents are reminded to note birthmarks and such. The medical form a doctor fills out for school does not have any place to put such information. Our doctor never thought school would report us to DCFS over my daughter's mongolian spots.

(2) I want the school to send out information to all nurses and administrators in the district about mongolian spots. It still baffles me that a nurse couldn't tell the difference between a real bruise and mongolian spots.


My daughters are bi-racial. They are pretty fair so they have really obvious mongolian spots. I've always worried that someone would mistake them for bruises. I think having the opportunity to document the presence of mongolian spots is an excellent idea. And I'd like to think that anyone who works with kids in even a remotely diverse area would be aware of the concept. I have friends who kids are Black/White (like mine), Mexican/White, East Indian/White and Vietnamese/White and all have mongolian spots, so really it is not that unusual.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[MamaMolly]

I'm so sorry you went through this! I'm wondering if the no-apology thing has to do with liability? Like if they say they are sorry they are admitting wrong-doing? Not to excuse their behavior, but I'm wondering if it came down the pipe from the school system's legal dept that they aren't allowed to apologize (or if they are just heartless jerks?)

[Dr C]

My initial reaction was to be completely horrified that they A) didn't recognize a mongolian spot and B) reported it without asking any questions, but as I'm reading other posts I realize that a lot of people don't recognize them (and thinking back I don't think I had seen one before I started working a lot with kids of different races), and that the mandatory reporting training discourages people from asking questions. That said, I'm still pretty apalled that they didn't apologize more profusely. I would have been completely mortified if I had put a family through something like that because of my ignorance.

But in any case... most school and daycare forms have a section for physical exam findings, which includes a section for "skin." It would be very reasonable for parents with kids who have mongolian spots to ask their doctor to specifically note the spots on that form when they fill it out, so that they (hopefully) do not get mistaken as a bruise.

[ThreeofUs]

(1) I want the school to change the student enrollment process so that parents are reminded to note birthmarks and such. The medical form a doctor fills out for school does not have any place to put such information. Our doctor never thought school would report us to DCFS over my daughter's mongolian spots.

(2) I want the school to send out information to all nurses and administrators in the district about mongolian spots. It still baffles me that a nurse couldn't tell the difference between a real bruise and mongolian spots.

(3) I want to tell them exactly what you said. There's lot that's wrong about the mandated process. There's lot that's wrong about a system that discourages open communication.


Sorry you had to go through this, but really glad you're going to help the school system move out of ignorance. I think your three points, above, are wonderful.

The mandated reporting system is a b!tch and they certainly got it VERY wrong in your case. (It must be said, though, that it also saves kids' lives sometimes; I've seen this happen personally.) Perhaps your school district should change their training to include telling mongolian spots from bruises, and maybe send out the information annually (not just once).

[brittone2]

I think a lot of people do not know what they are. However, I think this should be part of staff training for all mandated reporters. There's still a risk someone would report a parent, but if *mandated* reporters were at least more knowledgeable, that would help.

One of the first things I learned while out on my pediatric internships was what a mongolian spot was, for this very reason. The therapist I was working with wanted to make sure I knew about them because we worked with a diverse population. I had never seen a child with them before that time. I'm thankful she was sure to point it out to me.

Sorry you went through this :hug: What a nightmare.

[mongolianspot]

I'm so sorry you went through this! I'm wondering if the no-apology thing has to do with liability? Like if they say they are sorry they are admitting wrong-doing? Not to excuse their behavior, but I'm wondering if it came down the pipe from the school system's legal dept that they aren't allowed to apologize (or if they are just heartless jerks?)

Initially, I thought about that but there is virtually no legal recourse for parents in this case to fight this. We asked around. We would have to prove that DCFS was called with malicious intent. The whole "mandate" gives blanket protection to the reporters. The language in the law is "reasonable suspicion".

I think they are just jerks. I talked directly with the assistant superintendent and she was far more sympathetic.

One of our friends told us that it happened to her at her son's day care. In that case as well, they did not apologize her. Most reasonable people would feel terrible about the mistake and apologize but apparently that's not the case. She said there were in the Chicago area where it's quite diverse.

We are just collateral damage while lawmakers, DCFS and reporters take cover under the mandate.

One of our friend just recently became a nurse and she said mongolian spots were covered in every class she was in. I'm just trying to get the word out to parents out there to not assume. Several friends also told us their kids have mongolian spots and never thought it would be a problem. They just assumed people would ask them if they didn't know what it was.

[gatorsmom]

How horrible! I have to admit, I'd never heard of them either and just googled them.

I wonder if it would reasonable for pediatricians to recommend that parents of children with mongolian spots warn teachers ahead of time what these spots are? Maybe even have the doctor sign off on a photo of the child's back showing what the spots look like?

Not that it is the teacher's business, but if she has the power to call CPS, then I'd want her to know what those are ahead of time, kwim?

[mongolianspot]

How horrible! I have to admit, I'd never heard of them either and just googled them.

I wonder if it would reasonable for pediatricians to recommend that parents of children with mongolian spots warn teachers ahead of time what these spots are? Maybe even have the doctor sign off on a photo of the child's back showing what the spots look like?

Not that it is the teacher's business, but if she has the power to call CPS, then I'd want her to know what those are ahead of time, kwim?

I will be writing to American Academy of Pediatrics and American Academy of Family Physicians to remind or make request to it's members to note birthmarks (mongolian spots ) on school/state requested medical forms as well as inform their clients about possibility of people, especiallyl mandated reporters, calling DCFS/CPS.

[Gracemom]

I was a social worker and we were educated about what mongolian spots were. I had no idea since I am caucasian. This should definitely be mentioned in the training of anyone who is a mandated reporter.

[MamaMolly]

Hey, just so you know, some good came from your posts. I saw my first mongolian spots today. A new family moved nearby recently and our girls were doing the group potty thing. I saw the spot on the base of her spine and thought Oh, that's what they look like.

Thanks for the education! :)

[longtallsally05]

Also the nurse saw her as well. My daughter has been seen my several nurses and doctors over her short life but none of them ever raised an issue with the spot because they knew what it was right away.


WTH kind of nursing school did she attend? We learned about mongolian spots during our OB rotation, and (gasp) our textbooks actually had photos of them! Geez, how ignorant. The nurse should have known what they were (hello, she works with pediatric patients!) and called off the dogs before DCFS was called. Sorry that happened to you. Not all nurses are like that, I promise!

[o_mom]

I think a lot of people do not know what they are. However, I think this should be part of staff training for all mandated reporters. There's still a risk someone would report a parent, but if *mandated* reporters were at least more knowledgeable, that would help.



This should definitely be mentioned in the training of anyone who is a mandated reporter.

This would help in some cases, but in my state everyone is a mandated reporter, not just certain professions.

I have friends that adopted from Asia and as part of their post-placement services they were advised to proactively inform caregivers and have pictures of their child's mongolian spots added to the medical records for this reason.

[C99]

Initially, I thought about that but there is virtually no legal recourse for parents in this case to fight this. We asked around. We would have to prove that DCFS was called with malicious intent. The whole "mandate" gives blanket protection to the reporters. The language in the law is "reasonable suspicion".

I think they are just jerks. I talked directly with the assistant superintendent and she was far more sympathetic.


Will you pull your daughter out of that program? I am sorry that happened to you. I didn't know what mongolian spots are either.

[mongolianspot]

Hey, just so you know, some good came from your posts. I saw my first mongolian spots today. A new family moved nearby recently and our girls were doing the group potty thing. I saw the spot on the base of her spine and thought Oh, that's what they look like.

Thanks for the education! :)

Thanks Molly! I'm trying to get a word out about Mongolian spots. I found another case of false reporting over mongolian spots while talking to one of my coworkers. And guesss what? They also didn't get an apology.

I'm going to the school board meeting today. If everyone reading this thread can talk to their friends and family regarding this, I would appreciate it.

[mongolianspot]

Will you pull your daughter out of that program? I am sorry that happened to you. I didn't know what mongolian spots are either.

Unfortunately, we had to pull her out of the program. It's hard for us to send her back to the same school with the same teacher and principal after how they treated us. If they treated us more humanely after they realized their mistake, things might have been different.

We are in the process of looking for another program.

[BabyMine]

I'm so sorry that this happened.

Thank you for educating me about them becasueI had no idea what they were.

[goldenpig]

Unfortunately, we had to pull her out of the program. It's hard for us to send her back to the same school with the same teacher and principal after how they treated us. If they treated us more humanely after they realized their mistake, things might have been different.

We are in the process of looking for another program.

So sorry that this happened to you. Glad you are getting the word out! My 6 month old DS has several Mongolian spots on his back and butt. We just took him to his first ISR swimming lesson and the instructor said, "Oh, what's this big bruise on his back from?" Even DH said to me once, "What happened to his butt?" (and he's a doctor!) I guess he doesn't pay attention when he changes his diapers! I know what they are so I don't really think about them. Good reminder to let the teachers know when he starts preschool.

[liamsmom]

Unfortunately, we had to pull her out of the program. It's hard for us to send her back to the same school with the same teacher and principal after how they treated us. If they treated us more humanely after they realized their mistake, things might have been different.

We are in the process of looking for another program.

I'm sorry you had to go through this , mongolianspot. I'm sure there is some sort of board of directors or trustees--people the principal and superintendent report to. I would write a letter to the board and make your complaints known. The principal and staff ought to have apologized to you (or made it clear that they were ignorant of mongolian spots) even if they were required to contact DCFS.

[mongolianspot]

I'm sorry you had to go through this , mongolianspot. I'm sure there is some sort of board of directors or trustees--people the principal and superintendent report to. I would write a letter to the board and make your complaints known. The principal and staff ought to have apologized to you (or made it clear that they were ignorant of mongolian spots) even if they were required to contact DCFS.

I've written to the board and the superintendent. We got a call from the principal and the teacher afterwards. Even though it wasn't an apology, we got a "I am sorry you had to go through this". We were able to find more information about what happened.

I just came back from the board meeting. I made some suggestions so hopefully there will be some changes from that. Local newspaper reporter was there and she's going to contact me next week so hopefully, it's another avenue for me to get the word out.

[Uno-Mom]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. That stinks so much for your family!

Thank you for sharing this story, I learned some things. I'm a specialist working in the group home system and we deal with mandatory reporting issues frequently. Sadly, our population suffers abuse at times. :(

I've been through many trainings about how the big-shot forensic investigaters try to determine the source of bruises and other marks. It is SO often deceiving. But none of my trainings have discussed this particular issue. Probably because the folks we support would have their pre-existing skin marks documented well ahead of time. But still, this is good for me to think about.

My particular system is very strict about calling before investigating on our own. For good reason - cover-ups are way more common than unfounded reports in my field. But there is absolutely NOTHING against expressing sorrow for the pain an unfounded investigation causes inocent people. Their follow-up sounds inexcusable. And why the heck didn't the nurse recognize the marks???

I think you're making a good choice to take your girl to a different school. Your family doesn't need the stress. Move on! And thanks for sharing.