View Full Version : Is there any way to teach LO to fall sleep on own without CIO?
I'm thinking the answer is no, but just in case anyone has any great ideas, I'd love to try anything that could work.
LO is 14 months. I'd love to be able to put her in her crib and tell her it's time to take a nap and have her magically lay down and fall asleep on her own. I'm dreaming, right? Instead, I either nurse or rock her to sleep. And then as quietly (and slowly) as possible take her to her crib and 99% of the time these days she wakes up as I lay her down and then won't go back to sleep until I rock her to sleep again. And then we re-play the same situation. So sometimes she doesn't nap unless we have to run errands and she falls asleep in the car.
It seem like she's getting old enough that she should start being able to do this, but I don't know. I've tried laying down on a blanket in her room with her and trying to get her to fall asleep without me rocking her, but she only falls alseep if she's snuggling me. Cute and I love it, but I hope sometime she can learn to fall sleep on her own.
okinawama
09-13-2010, 08:24 PM
I used the babywhisperer and have had great success in teaching him independent sleep. He's now 18months old, but around 5 months he started to put himself to sleep completely on his own. However, I started when he was around 2months old, but on the website http://www.babywhispererforums.com/ is TONS of info. Take a look, I'm sure you'll find some help.
I could have written your post to the letter! There came a point where I thought to myself, DD should be able to go to sleep on her own...but at 15 mos I wasn't comfortable with a more CIO approach. So DH and I came up with a strategy.....we would do our night time routine, put DD in her crib, and then lay down next to her crib until she fell asleep. Okay, so she cried a little....but it felt more like she was crying to get out of the crib vs crying because she was alone in her room KWIM? We just kept telling her that it was okay and that we were right there. It took a couple of nights, but she started to lie down and fall asleep. Then we moved to stage 2. Same routine, but instead of lying down, we went right outside her door -- she cried a little (it was by no means sobbing) and we kept telling her it was okay and that we were right there. Same thing....in a few nights, she was lying down to go to sleep on her own. She never cried for more that 2 minutes. If she had cried for longer, we would have had to re-evaluate our approach.
For us, it came down to consistency and not doing anything we felt uncomfortable doing. Now DD is almost 2 and she sleeps like a champ!
edurnemk
09-13-2010, 09:23 PM
We did something like LMPC, a very subtle, little by little approach. I read 2 books: The no cry sleep solution, and Dr Ferber's Solve your child's sleep problems. I'm glad I read both to understand the theory and everything and we used one of Ferber's solutions mixed with a little no-cry sleep solution (there's not just one Ferber method BTW, he touches on several problems and he never suggests full blown CIO). I'm not sure if by CIO you mean just leaving her there to cry as long as it takes, or the more gentle approach of coming back in to soothe her every few minutes (Ferber).
I went from rocking DS to sleep at 13 months, to standing beside his crib and patting his back, then after a few nights it was just sitting beside his crib, then sitting farther, then outside his door, and then I did leave and come back every 2, then 5, then 8 minutes to soothe him for about 30 seconds (according to Ferber). But all it took was 2 nights, and even on the first one I only came back in 3 times. When we were transitioning from rocking to patting, etc he did cry but I was right there, and it required a LOT of patience because it would take sometimes 45 minutes for him to fall asleep. But it was all so worth it!
After applying this he also stopped waking up in the middle of the night! And naps also became easier. A month later we travelled to the Bahamas, but were super consistent with his routine and he slept perfectly on his own, both in the hotel and when we came back.
All of the above are great suggestions. Here is another: The Pick up-Put down routine (I believe this comes from The Baby Whisperer). You do all your routine, etc, etc. Baby is nice and drowsy but hopefully not overtired. You put baby in crib awake. Baby cries. You pick baby up. Baby stops crying. Put baby back in crib. Baby cries. You pick baby up. Etc. Etc. Basically you repeat until at last baby doesn't cry. You will probably pick up 50-70 times the first night--you just have to go in there with the mentality that you WILL have more stamina than your kid. And you can always switch off with DH.
I do think it's helpful to read a few books on theory, by the way, so you understand the problem a little better, and decide which sleep approaches ones fit your style best. In addition to the Hogg (the Baby Whisperer), Ferber, Pantley (the no cry sleep solution--I personally found her tone a little high and mighty but that might just be me), I really liked Weissbluth's book. From what you've written so far, though, I think "The Baby Whisperer" might be a good match for you.
Good luck!
edurnemk
09-13-2010, 10:11 PM
Pantley (the no cry sleep solution--I personally found her tone a little high and mighty but that might just be me)
No, it's not just you! ;) But a few of her concepts did help a lot, like the sleep log and the very clear explanation of the 90 minute wake-to-sleepy cycle
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to see if the library has a few of the books that were mentioned. I have the No Cry Sleep Solution, but it doesn't seem to fit my situation. And I did read The Baby Whisperer, but that was back in the days when LO was much younger and I was REALLY sleep deprived, so I don't remember much from it. Maybe I should check it out again.
I've been trying similar stuff that was mentioned, but I think I need to pick 1 thing and be consistent for awhile to see any results. I really just need help with her naps. I'm fine with nursing her to sleep at night and by that time she's so tired, it's not too hard to put her in her crib and she'll sleep till 5:00 the next morning (which I wish was later, but I'm just ecstactic that I get to sleep all night (most nights).
But her not napping unless I'm holding her (or waking 5 min after I put her in there) is driving me crazy. So, for the last few days I've tried laying on the floor of her room hoping she would lay down and go to sleep, but she never does. She either stands at the edge and looks at me and cries the whole time. Or, runs back and forth in the crib playing. What do you do when LO won't even lay down on her own? I've layed there for 20+ minutes. Do I just need to stay there longer?
I am sorry I won't be much help to you, my DS is only 4.5 months. But I am having similar issues with him as far as him crying or fussing when he wants to go to sleep but unable on his own or just doesn't want to go to sleep altogether in the middle of the night.
I actually just wanted to ask you whether you DD used to go to sleep well when she was younger or whether she always was fussy around bed time, nap time, not being able to go to sleep on her own, etc and you just waited to train her till she gets older.
I am just desperate at this point and posts like yours that involve much older babies make me feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. :gloomy:
DS is waking up in the middle of the night to nurse, which is fine, but in the recent month and often he is taken to stay up for 2 hours or so every time he wakes up, so his night time pattern resembles a series of long 3 hour naps with 1-2 hour wakeful periods in between. Last night he was fussy not because he was hungry or wet or didn't get burped enough - he just wanted to play! He was bored and that was at 4am! I am wondering if your DD had similar issues at earlier age and how you managed to cope with it for all these long months and what really is making you decide to start sleep training now. I talked to the two different Peds and they both recommended to start sleep training him and he is only 4.5 months. What made you wait for this long and how did you manage to survive?
Thanks so much!!! and big :hug:
Well, LO has always had trouble with naps. That's been a struggle the whole time, but eventually I was able to get her to take her naps pretty good. I still had to rock/nurse her to sleep and then put her down, but for some reason she actually started staying alseep when I did that. But now, we're back to her waking up when I try that. She's always been a really light sleeper during the daytime, so the slightest movement will wake her. And if she realizes I'm not holding her (or even thinks I'm about to put her down) she has a meltdown. So this is definetly not a new problem. I guess I just had a few months of her actually napping pretty well and now that's gone again and I really miss it.
But, luckily, she sleeps well at night. She, of course, went through phases where she'd wake up a lot at night (every hour, for instance), but she had a reason. She was usually pretty hungry. So even if I didn't like waking up so often in the night to nurse her, I knew I'd want to eat too if I was that hungry, so it didn't bother me so much. Make me exhausted? Yes. But I guess I've just learned that being exhausted is part of being a Mom (at least for me). I think when LO was young like you're LO she wanted to play after she ate in the middle of the night (it seems like so long ago, I almost forgot that part), and it would take her awhile to get back to sleep, but we'd just keep it dark and not talk, etc and eventually she learned that if she woke up to eat she needed to go right back to sleep after. However, I have to say that if she ever woke up anytime after 4AM, I had no chance of getting her back to sleep. Luckily, now we can get her to sleep until 5, but it's the same way. Once 5:00 comes around, if she wakes up, she's not going back down. But now that she's a lot older she actually STTN (but that wasn't until maybe around 10 months?). And to cope with getting up so early EVERY day (even on weekends and holidays!) we go to bed much earlier than we ever did before.
Sorry this is so long. I think I've kind of come to accept the fact that LO is just not a good napper. It used to bother me so much (and it still does sometimes, which is why I wrote this post), but I guess now I'm just hoping that she's about to that age that she should understand that she needs to take a nap and we can get this figured out now. I tried (briefly) standing by the side of her crib and patting her, etc. and that never worked for us then. LO would never lay down. She would just stand and sob. And I didn't want (still don't want) her falling sleep just because she's exhausted from crying so hard. I decided for me it was more important that she went to sleep happily. So, maybe that's why I'm still having problems. It's made me think about how I going to do this with future babies. I'm thinking I might get them in the habit of laying down on their own and falling sleep that way when they're really young, so they're more used to it. But who knows, if they are crying, I'm sure I will ditch that plan. As much as I hate that she's a horrible napper, I'm happy I've never let her sob herself to sleep. So I guess now I'm just trying to see if there's a way to teach her to nap that's gentle (on both of us). I've reserved books from the library and am going to read them and see if any of them work for us. And we'll go from there. HTH and so sorry for TMI!
However, I have to say that if she ever woke up anytime after 4AM, I had no chance of getting her back to sleep. Luckily, now we can get her to sleep until 5, but it's the same way. Once 5:00 comes around, if she wakes up, she's not going back down. But now that she's a lot older she actually STTN (but that wasn't until maybe around 10 months?). And to cope with getting up so early EVERY day (even on weekends and holidays!) we go to bed much earlier than we ever did before. I don't know if I have that much propensity to be the martyr-mom who sleeps 4 hours a day chronically in interrupted chunks. I can only last for 2 days on 4 hours of interrupted sleep and then I will be at everyone's throat and won't be able to form a sentence. I don't know honestly how you managed to do this for a year! I would have to quit my job for sure to do this, currently I am already lagging behind and sometimes have trouble finding words in the meetings and I used to be a great speaker.
So, we have no choice but to sleep train and do it soon! I am also interested in a solution that involves less crying, so keep us updated on what ends up working for you :)
It's made me think about how I going to do this with future babies. I'm thinking I might get them in the habit of laying down on their own and falling sleep that way when they're really young, so they're more used to it. But who knows, if they are crying, I'm sure I will ditch that plan.
I tried that from very beginning, but it didn't work in the long run :( We used to put DS to sleep in his crib awake and he had no issues until he turned 3 months old when his sleep schedule just went crazy. I think it's easy for them to learn new associations, so we probably did something that we shouldn't have like continuous feeding on demand at night and rocking and carrying him to calm him down and he got used to it and simply doesn't want to go back to his usual schedule on his own without any type of training. I didn't read any sleep training books until now (reading Ferber and will start Weissbluth soon), so I had no idea what to do. I just did what felt natural to us to soothe the baby by all means possible when he would get a growth spurt and that maybe lead to issues we have now.
I don't know if I have that much propensity to be the martyr-mom who sleeps 4 hours a day chronically in interrupted chunks. I can only last for 2 days on 4 hours of interrupted sleep and then I will be at everyone's throat and won't be able to form a sentence. I don't know honestly how you managed to do this for a year!
Well, like I said we've adjusted our own bedtime. I'm exhausted by 8:00 and in bed between 9 and 10 most nights. I wish I could stay up later and have some time to myself, but I'm so exhausted that I'd rather just sleep!
I'm thinking 3 months might be a common age where kids start having more difficulty sleeping. That's the exact time we started having prob. She slept like a champ up until then and then everything changed. But LO would go through phases where she'd do better sleeping, and then struggle again, then better, etc. Your LO is so young, maybe it's just a phase he's in? I'm sure things will get better.
Katigre
09-16-2010, 01:41 PM
What if you work first on falling asleep in the crib with you there, and then after she masters that move on to falling asleep alone. We taught DS to fall asleep on his own without CIO and DD is well on her way there too. I'm really happy with our kids' sleep.
Here is what I would do:
1. Do your bedtime routine (nursing/rocking) but move her to the crib before falling asleep. Then stay with her and keep your hands on her - rub her back, sing, help her lay back down, etc... If she cries just stay with her and comfort her but keep her in the crib. After a week of doing this *consistently* she'll get used to falling asleep in there instead of your arms.
2. Phase 2: Stay with her while she falls asleep but don't touch her the whole time, just stand by the crib. Then move to sitting in the doorway. Eventually you'll just stay with her for a few minutes to help her settle (this can be a nice bonding time at the end of the day) and then leave and come back to check on her periodicaly.
I really think that consistency is the key and that this method lets you teach them to fall asleep without CIO :).
We did the sleep lady shuffle with DS. It worked really well for him. Google Kim West for the sleep lady books etc...
What if you work first on falling asleep in the crib with you there, and then after she masters that move on to falling asleep alone. We taught DS to fall asleep on his own without CIO and DD is well on her way there too. I'm really happy with our kids' sleep.
Here is what I would do:
1. Do your bedtime routine (nursing/rocking) but move her to the crib before falling asleep. Then stay with her and keep your hands on her - rub her back, sing, help her lay back down, etc... If she cries just stay with her and comfort her but keep her in the crib. After a week of doing this *consistently* she'll get used to falling asleep in there instead of your arms.
This is similar to what I've been thinking--and trying, but never consistently enough. LO will scream/sob so hard I think she might throw up when I put her down in this state. I've tried to reassure her and rub her back, sing, etc and she'll sometimes calm down a little, but if I try to lay her back down (she always stands right back up) she loses it again. Am I just not trying this long enough? Will she eventually lay down on her own and not cry so hard?
Oh, and could this be part of my problem? I nurse her to sleep at night and she's alseep when she's done eating. And she goes down fine them. But it's the daytime naps that I want to be able to put her down awake for. So here is where the prob. arise, I think. I'm fine with nursing her to sleep at night. Maybe this confuses her? But I don't want to give up the nightime nursing. And I'm going to continue that for awhile, still.
chottumommy
09-17-2010, 11:09 AM
This is similar to what I've been thinking--and trying, but never consistently enough. LO will scream/sob so hard I think she might throw up when I put her down in this state. I've tried to reassure her and rub her back, sing, etc and she'll sometimes calm down a little, but if I try to lay her back down (she always stands right back up) she loses it again. Am I just not trying this long enough? Will she eventually lay down on her own and not cry so hard?
Oh, and could this be part of my problem? I nurse her to sleep at night and she's alseep when she's done eating. And she goes down fine them. But it's the daytime naps that I want to be able to put her down awake for. So here is where the prob. arise, I think. I'm fine with nursing her to sleep at night. Maybe this confuses her? But I don't want to give up the nightime nursing. And I'm going to continue that for awhile, still.
Don't be too hard on yourself. My DS was a horrible napper all the way up till 16 months or so. I tried multiple things but nothing seemed to work and then I just gave up. I would rock or pat or do whatever he wanted in a rocking chair to put him to sleep after nursing him. It took the stress out of things. Then after a month or so he would ask me to rock him for a few minutes and point to the bed (we never had a crib, he always slept on a bed starting 5 months or so) and I would put him down sit close by and he would fall asleep.
My ds is very very strong willed and it has to be his call. Now at 20 months, he tells me when he's very tired, I take him up to his room put him in his bed and he falls asleep in a few minutes. Same thing at night, he nurses then I rock him for a a few minutes and then he falls asleep on his own in the bed. Somedays it takes a little longer. I figure he wants to cuddle till he gets drowsy and I kind of like it now. Another thing I noticed was that if I put him to sleep very early at night like 7-7:30 he has too much energy and the nap the next day is a disaster. I always wait for him to be really tired (he become clingy when tired) before I put him to bed at night and that happens to be sometimes at 8 or even 9. He is very very light sleeper who needs at the most 10 hours or sleep at night. There are days he sleeps more and days he sleeps less. I donot enforce a sleep time at night or for nap. But donot allow a nap after 3:00 pm and that rarely happens. He always naps between 12-2 and naps for a good 2 hours.
Not sure if this helps but just wanted to give you another perspective.
Katigre
09-17-2010, 11:57 AM
This is similar to what I've been thinking--and trying, but never consistently enough. LO will scream/sob so hard I think she might throw up when I put her down in this state. I've tried to reassure her and rub her back, sing, etc and she'll sometimes calm down a little, but if I try to lay her back down (she always stands right back up) she loses it again. Am I just not trying this long enough? Will she eventually lay down on her own and not cry so hard?
The first time she might cry for longer - I would set a time limit for yourself (10 minutes) where you are there with her helping her lay down and such - if she is still not calming down after 10 minutes then do something else. But for many kids they do cry in protest when you are changing things and if you stick with it they'll adjust.
Oh, and could this be part of my problem? I nurse her to sleep at night and she's alseep when she's done eating. And she goes down fine them. But it's the daytime naps that I want to be able to put her down awake for. So here is where the prob. arise, I think. I'm fine with nursing her to sleep at night. Maybe this confuses her? But I don't want to give up the nightime nursing. And I'm going to continue that for awhile, still.
I think you can have different day/night routines and it won't confuse your child - you just have to be consistent within each routine.
sonnynyc
09-17-2010, 04:40 PM
Glad I found this thread--will need to try the pickup-put down routine, as he always pulls himself up and stand in his crib after we tried putting him down.
Question: how have other parents curb the wake-up-middle-of-night? Is it just that my LO is a boy that he has a voracious appetite or that his diaper gets really heavy?
Is there any tips, like feed something more heavy (he's on solids/cereal/pureed food + formula)? Or reduce his fluids so he doesn't pee so heavily into the diaper?
Thanks in advance for your insights!
We had a baby who hated naps and was up to nurse every night. until she was about 7 mos old, she got up at 2a, nursed, and went right back to sleep. But after that, she started waking hourly and didn't want to nurse, just to cuddle or play. My DH and I said to each other -- we don't do THAT at night. :)
So we sleep trained and night weaned (I talked to the ped, who said she'd be fine dropping that one feeding). We used a pretty traditional Ferber (visit, pat, don't pick up, gradually lengthening intervals between visits). 3 days later, 7pm nurse and bed, 7am wake. Woo hoo!!!!
We had little intervals around developmental changes where we needed to "help" her do it again, but none lasted more than a night or two. The funniest was when she learned to pull to a stand .... but not how to sit back down! So she'd stand up in her sleep, and then be stuck and pretty ticked. Once I went in, unhooked her, and she was asleep again before I left the room. :) That one took a week of daytime practice to get through.
Now, at 20 mos, we read books in mommy and daddy's bed, then go to her crib, tuck her in and say "night, night". She rolls over and goes to sleep. It's fabulous.
It does pass! You'll find the method that works best for you and your baby, and LO will sleep. :)
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